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Bush: ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&oref=login&pagewanted=all&position

Bruce Bartlett, a domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan and a treasury official for the first President Bush, told me recently that ''if Bush wins, there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3.''

''This is why he dispenses with people who confront him with inconvenient facts,'' Bartlett went on to say. ''He truly believes he's on a mission from God. Absolute faith like that overwhelms a need for analysis. The whole thing about faith is to believe things for which there is no empirical evidence.'' Bartlett paused, then said, ''But you can't run the world on faith.''

In those days, there were high hopes that the United States-sponsored ''road map'' for the Israelis and Palestinians would be a pathway to peace, and the discussion that wintry day was, in part, about countries providing peacekeeping forces in the region. The problem, everyone agreed, was that a number of European countries, like France and Germany, had armies that were not trusted by either the Israelis or Palestinians. One congressman -- the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress -- mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.

''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.

much, much more in the article. good stuff..

edit: Changed the title to make it a bit more sensational. Hope you don't mind. -Mandark
 

Acrylamid

Member
J
---
A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.'' When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm not going to debate it with you"
My 'favourite' quote so far, it should have been his slogan in the election campaign.
 
Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.

:lol :lol :lol
 
omg...the delusion

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.'' When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm not going to debate it with you.''

The 9/11 commission did not directly address the question of whether Bush exerted influence over the intelligence community about the existence of weapons of mass destruction. That question will be investigated after the election, but if no tangible evidence of undue pressure is found, few officials or alumni of the administration whom I spoke to are likely to be surprised. ''If you operate in a certain way -- by saying this is how I want to justify what I've already decided to do, and I don't care how you pull it off -- you guarantee that you'll get faulty, one-sided information,'' Paul O'Neill, who was asked to resign his post of treasury secretary in December 2002, said when we had dinner a few weeks ago. ''You don't have to issue an edict, or twist arms, or be overt.''

this zealot needs to be removed from office...asap.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
If--if--this is true, then it exemplifies everything I hate about this administration.
 
George W. Bush and his team have constructed a high-performance electoral engine. The soul of this new machine is the support of millions of likely voters, who judge his worth based on intangibles -- character, certainty, fortitude and godliness -- rather than on what he says or does. The deeper the darkness, the brighter this filament of faith glows, a faith in the president and the just God who affirms him.

The leader of the free world is clearly comfortable with this calculus and artfully encourages it. In the series of televised, carefully choreographed ''Ask President Bush'' events with supporters around the country, sessions filled with prayers and blessings, one questioner recently summed up the feelings of so many Christian conservatives, the core of the Bush army. ''I've voted Republican from the very first time I could vote,'' said Gary Walby, a retired jeweler from Destin, Fla., as he stood before the president in a crowded college gym. ''And I also want to say this is the very first time that I have felt that God was in the White House.'' Bush simply said ''thank you'' as a wave of raucous applause rose from the assembled.

uhhhhhhhh. i'm really beginning to feel for john kerry. what a task this is for him..
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Brad DeLong has been pleading for the "grown-up Republicans" to come to the rescue for some time now. Christie Whitman and Paul O'Neill got turfed, Colin Powell's been marginalized.

I just don't see a serious challenge to the current leadership though. In the Republican leadership, Cheney, Delay, and the other hard-line partisans have a very solid hold on the power. On the grassroots side, there don't seem to be any signs of popular support for a reform of the party either.

Best shot they have is Delay getting the boot for all his ethics violations, and a moderate jumping in (though how many moderates does the House have on either side, thanks to heavily slanted districts?). Either that or James Baker takes a page from the late 80's playbook and pushes Cheney out as the brains of the administration.

That story with Bush and Lantos is pretty scary, and, dismayingly, not surprising at all.
 
man, this article is a goldmine!

The crowd went wild, and they went wild again when the president finally arrived and gave his stump speech. There were Bush's periodic stumbles and gaffes, but for the followers of the faith-based president, that was just fine. They got it -- and ''it'' was the faith.

And for those who don't get it? That was explained to me in late 2002 by Mark McKinnon, a longtime senior media adviser to Bush, who now runs his own consulting firm and helps the president. He started by challenging me. ''You think he's an idiot, don't you?'' I said, no, I didn't. ''No, you do, all of you do, up and down the West Coast, the East Coast, a few blocks in southern Manhattan called Wall Street. Let me clue you in. We don't care. You see, you're outnumbered 2 to 1 by folks in the big, wide middle of America, busy working people who don't read The New York Times or Washington Post or The L.A. Times. And you know what they like? They like the way he walks and the way he points, the way he exudes confidence. They have faith in him. And when you attack him for his malaprops, his jumbled syntax, it's good for us. Because you know what those folks don't like? They don't like you!'' In this instance, the final ''you,'' of course, meant the entire reality-based community.

In response to a question, he talked about diversity, saying that ''hands down,'' he has the most diverse senior staff in terms of both gender and race. He recalled a meeting with Chancellor Gerhard Schroder of Germany. ''You know, I'm sitting there with Schroder one day with Colin and Condi. And I'm thinking: What's Schroder thinking?! He's sitting here with two blacks and one's a woman.''

But as the hour passed, Bush kept coming back to the thing most on his mind: his second term.

''I'm going to come out strong after my swearing in,'' Bush said, ''with fundamental tax reform, tort reform, privatizing of Social Security.'' The victories he expects in November, he said, will give us ''two years, at least, until the next midterm. We have to move quickly, because after that I'll be quacking like a duck.''
 

fart

Savant
i'm afraid i didn't get my absentee ballot form in on time, and i'm registered in a county 500 miles away. shit!
 
I was going to post this, but looks like halfpastnoon beat me to it. And dang, he beat me to all the good quotes too (ie Schroder or Sweden). OMG these quotes are pretty darn scary. Bushisms used to be just funny to me, but now they more sinister...they represent what IMO is wrong with America.
 

rastex

Banned
Hey HalfPast, I hope you don't mind me copying what you wrote into another (mainly right-leaning) forum. I don't have access to the NYT article, so I just copied your quotes. I fully expect the usual spin and damage control from them, but maybe a few moderates will see the importance of what's going on here.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The Shadow said:
I'm actually scared about the future now. :(

No kidding, it looks like half of America is going to be very pissed off no matter what. Time to get the hell out of Dodge City!
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
:lol

Although I have to admit, people living far from Europe tend to mix up Sweden and Switzerland surprisingly often.
 
Just read the whole thing. Great article. Unfortunately, I doubt this will spread onto the national media scene (namely, cable shows) due to the fact that the author couldn't name a healthy number of his sources. Also, anything written with a clear "agenda" (ahem) is apparently no longer considered newsworthy (well, unless it's COMPLETELY outrageous i.e. Swift Boat, hump on Bush's back, etc.).

But a great read nonetheless.

Honestly, I feel for "reality" Republicans. I think the Republican party has a history to be proud of. I think they have ideas and beliefs that are absolutely intelligent, rational, and oftentimes more effective than those that belong to "the left." Though I don't subscribe to them, I completely understand how someone could stand firmly for the party's basic principles...

But Jesus Christ, the current crop in power is fucking ape shit. Not like the current crop of Democrats in power are wonderful, but my God, at least they're not FROTHING AND INSANE.

Eh, I could go on longer, but I won't.



*Noel Coward Parody
 
But Switzerland does have an army :confused:

N Coward Parody: Yeah esp since NYTimes has endorsed Kerry, it will be viewed with even more suspicion, even if the reporting is correct.
 

Chipopo

Banned
Kiriku said:
Depends on how stubborn they are. ;)

Stubborn?!?! No no no, it's UNWAVERING CONFIDENCE! When Bush does something wrong, he'll stick by it Goddamnit! That's the kind of thing we need in our president right now! Flip-Floppy McGee (i.e. Kerry, or should I say Berrly, which almost sounds like Barely, as in, Barely served in Vietnam) could learn a thing or two about sticking by yer guns (cocked and ready to fire!)
 
rastex said:
For people who can access the article, who is the author?

Ron Suskind was the senior national-affairs reporter for The Wall Street Journal from 1993 to 2000. He is the author most recently of ''The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House and the Education of Paul O'Neill.''

ron suskind...
 

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.

''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.
How Bush became president and is now in with a good chance to be president again, I will never understand.
 
Scrow said:
How Bush became president and is now in with a good chance to be president again, I will never understand.

that's what the article is about. the religous right and it's powerful effect; i.e. electing bush.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
N Coward Parody said:
Honestly, I feel for "reality" Republicans. I think the Republican party has a history to be proud of. I think they have ideas and beliefs that are absolutely intelligent, rational, and oftentimes more effective than those that belong to "the left." Though I don't subscribe to them, I completely understand how someone could stand firmly for the party's basic principles...

The thing is, these people still vote for Bush. They don't care to take issue with how the man runs the country - as long as he delivers his tax cut that's all they want. Which is absolutely the saddest thing I know. I was talking to my supervisor the other day - and he literally said to me that while he was "disappointed that Bush was a terrible public speaker," he "just didn't care" - he was going to vote Bush anyway. Why? Because "abortion, gay marriage, those aren't issues to me. But try and take my money away - then I get angry." This, combined with the evangelicals, is all Bush needs to win, and it makes me sick.
 

maharg

idspispopd
CrunchyB said:
Registration to nytimes.com is free and relatively painless. Do it.

Or enter the URL into google, and follow the link from google to the article. Not quite as painless, but at least you're not putting yourself on yet another fucking list.
 
Man...life needs a Ctrl+Alt+Del feature. Our country is crashing under this administration, and I truly feel that the 2nd term Bush will somehow obtain is going to be far worse...
 
Forgotten Ancient said:
Man...life needs a Ctrl+Alt+Del feature. Our country is crashing under this administration, and I truly feel that the 2nd term Bush will somehow obtain is going to be far worse...

Shit, lately I feel like we should reformat the whole damn thing and start over.
 
eggplant said:
But I thought you were Australian
I am ;).
It's more of a self-concious Aussie thing. We've been confused with Austria a number of times and it's done a harm to our fragile pyche(sp?) :p. Apparently still some of the good ol' newspapers in America thought Howard won the 'Austrian' Election.
 
Fresh Prince said:
I am ;).
It's more of a self-concious Aussie thing. We've been confused with Austria a number of times and it's done a harm to our fragile pyche(sp?) :p. Apparently still some of the good ol' newspapers in America thought Howard won the 'Austrian' Election.

Well I used to confuse the two countries, but I stopped at around age 6 :p
 

Triumph

Banned
Jesus tittyfucking Christ.

My blood has run cold. I must escape this crazy fucking country as soon as it is humanly possible for me to do so.
 
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