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[The Technomancer]

This is an utterly harrowing read and another reminder of all of the power that can be brought to bear with the will and the resources:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/meghara/the-police-state-of-the-future-is-already-here

This is a city where growing a beard can get you reported to the police. So can inviting too many people to your wedding, or naming your child Muhammad or Medina.

Driving or taking a bus to a neighboring town, you’d hit checkpoints where armed police officers might search your phone for banned apps like Facebook or Twitter, and scroll through your text messages to see if you had used any religious language.

You would be particularly worried about making phone calls to friends and family abroad. Hours later, you might find police officers knocking at your door and asking questions that make you suspect they were listening in the whole time.

For millions of people in China’s remote far west, this dystopian future is already here. China, which has already deployed the world’s most sophisticated internet censorship system, is building a surveillance state in Xinjiang, a four-hour flight from Beijing, that uses both the newest technology and human policing to keep tabs on every aspect of citizens’ daily lives. The region is home to a Muslim ethnic minority called the Uighurs, who China has blamed for forming separatist groups and fueling terrorism. Since this spring, thousands of Uighurs and other ethnic minorities have disappeared into so-called political education centers, apparently for offenses from using Western social media apps to studying abroad in Muslim countries, according to relatives of those detained.

China’s government says the security measures are necessary in Xinjiang because of the threat of extremist violence by Uighur militants — the region has seen periodic bouts of unrest, from riots in 2009 that left almost 200 dead to a series of deadly knife and bomb attacks in 2013 and 2014. The government also says it’s made life for Uighurs better, pointing to the money it’s poured into economic development in the region, as well as programs making it easier for Uighurs to attend university and obtain government jobs. Public security and propaganda authorities in Xinjiang did not respond to requests for comment. China’s Foreign Ministry said it had no knowledge of surveillance measures put in place by the local government.

“I want to stress that people in Xinjiang enjoy a happy and peaceful working and living situation,” said Lu Kang, a spokesperson for China’s Foreign Ministry, when asked why the surveillance measures are needed. “We have never heard about these measures taken by local authorities.”

he ubiquity of government surveillance in Xinjiang affects the most prosaic aspects of daily life, those interviewed for this story said. D., a stylish young Uighur woman in Turkey, said that even keeping in touch with her grandmother, who lives in a small Xinjiang village, had become impossible.

Whenever D. called her grandmother, police would barge in hours later, demanding the elderly woman phone D. back while they were in the room.

“For god’s sake, I’m not going to talk to my 85-year-old grandmother about how to destroy China!” D. said, exasperated, sitting across the table from me in a café around the corner from her office.

After she got engaged, D. invited her extended family, who live in Xinjiang, to her wedding. Because it is now nearly impossible for Uighurs to obtain passports, D. ended up postponing the ceremony for months in hopes the situation would improve.

Finally, in May, she and her mother had a video call with her family on WeChat, the popular Chinese messaging platform. When D. asked how they were, they said everything was fine. Then one of her relatives, afraid of police eavesdropping, held up a handwritten sign that said, “We could not get the passports.”

D. felt her heart sink, but she just nodded and kept talking. As soon as the call ended, she said, she burst into tears.

China has gradually increased restrictions in Xinjiang for the past decade in response to unrest and violent attacks, but the surveillance has been drastically stepped up since the appointment of a new party boss to the region in August 2016. Chen Quanguo, the party secretary, brought “grid-style social management” to Xinjiang, placing police and paramilitary troops every few hundred feet and establishing thousands of “convenience police stations.” The use of political education centers — where thousands have been detained this year without charge — also radically increased after his tenure began. Spending on domestic security in Xinjiang rose 45% in the first half of this year, compared to the same period a year earlier, according to an analysis of Chinese budget figures by researcher Adrian Zenz of the European School of Culture and Theology in Germany. A portion of that money has been poured into dispatching tens of thousands of police officers to patrol the streets.

There's more. A lot more. Read the whole thing

 

[Laiza]

Goddamn. When her relative had to put up a written sign to the camera to communicate to her relative for fear of eavesdropping...

Incredible. Just how much bloody manpower do they have devoted to this kind of policing? It's mind-boggling for a country of that size. For all the progress China has made in some areas (namely technological progress and environmentalism), it seems this is one area where they'll be stuck for a long time to come.

I'll keep my distance.

 

[Lime]

For millions of people in China’s remote far west, this dystopian future is already here. China, which has already deployed the world’s most sophisticated internet censorship system, is building a surveillance state in Xinjiang, a four-hour flight from Beijing, that uses both the newest technology and human policing to keep tabs on every aspect of citizens’ daily lives. The region is home to a Muslim ethnic minority called the Uighurs, who China has blamed for forming separatist groups and fueling terrorism. Since this spring, thousands of Uighurs and other ethnic minorities have disappeared into so-called political education centers, apparently for offenses from using Western social media apps to studying abroad in Muslim countries, according to relatives of those detained.

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

 

[Glix]

I bet Trump gets a boner when he reads this kind of stuff.

Scary as hell.

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

Yeah, it sucks having to go through that checkpoint when I want to go to the mall. /s

They are not equivalent.

 

[The Technomancer]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

With the primary difference being that they then don't barge into too many people's homes at midnight

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

classic Lime shitpost

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

The NSA disappears people into camps for using non-approved social media apps? Fuck off, man.

 

[Twilight Princess]

200 dead from KNIFE attacks???? Wtf how many people would have been killed if these fuckers had guns?

 

[ahoyhoy]

Fuck that government. Need to keep pushing back against anything resembling it taking root here.

 

[Steel]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

The NSA etc. are all problematic, but they do not censor and do not use the information they collect in anywhere near the manner China does.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

It sounds incredibly dissimilar lol

 

[pigeon]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

Especially the part where they put people in organ farms and dissect them.

Wait, no, does the TSA have that program? I forget.

People need to get it straight, China is a straight-up police state.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

You've got a mighty broad definition of "similar."

 

[BreezyLimbo]

And China is supposed to be the future?

No thanks I'm good.

I mean, that shit is probably effective, don't get me wrong. But it is a dystopian reality China is in. I wonder if there's a rebellion in China, or if they've cosigned themselves to their fate?

 

[The Technomancer]

200 dead from KNIFE attacks???? Wtf how many people would have been killed if these fuckers had guns?

Keep in mind there's a population of 9 million people. That's the same as New York City

 

[Slayven]

With the primary difference being that they then don't barge into too many people's homes at midnight

Yet

 

[sphagnum]

China has been making a big PR push to be seen as the reasonable alternative power, a proven economic success story with serious leadership that avoids the troubles that more democratic countries have.

Lots of people have been falling for it. Their recent glitz has helped paper over their authoritarian state capitalism and Han nationalism.

 

[ahoyhoy]

And China is supposed to be the future?

No thanks I'm good.

I mean, that shit is probably effective, don't get me wrong. But it is a dystopian reality China is in. I wonder if there's a rebellion in China, or if they've cosigned themselves to their fate?

I know. More and more people seem cool with falling for propaganda so long as it seems somewhat benevolent in nature, like they want some Old Testament God for a government that whispers sweet lies into their ears, rewards generously, and punishes harshly.

 

[jph139]

I visited Xinjiang a few years ago - it wasn't quite so bad then, but there were absolutely police checkpoints and men armed with rifles just sort of... hanging around. Everyone was polite and seemed happy enough, but there was this sort of "occupied nation" vibe that hung over everything.

Some of the students we met in Urumqi seemed mostly positive back then. But they seemed pretty Westernized. Wonder what they're up to now...

 

[Twilight Princess]

Keep in mind there's a population of 9 million people. That's the same as New York City

Can you imagine what would happen if members of an ethnic minority begin to butcher hundreds of people on the streets in New York, with KNIVES?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

China has been making a big PR push to be seen as the reasonable alternative power, a proven economic success story with serious leadership that avoids the troubles that more democratic countries have.

Lots of people have been falling for it. Their recent glitz has helped paper over their authoritarian state capitalism and Han nationalism.

I know. More and more people seem cool with falling for propaganda so long as it seems somewhat benevolent in nature, like they want some Old Testament God for a government that whispers sweet lies into their ears, rewards generously, and punishes harshly.

Yeah. Like, a Chinese official pays some lip to the environment and I'm supposed to be awed at him being 'humble' for a bit part? Nah. That's just targeted propaganda to the western world, to get that exact reaction. "Wow! He actually cares about the environment! Much better than our country!"

And yeah, it does feel like this past year, there's been alot more propaganda out of China to make them seem in good light, when in fact they are a completely shitty government when it comes to human rights.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

And China is supposed to be the future?

No thanks I'm good.

I mean, that shit is probably effective, don't get me wrong. But it is a dystopian reality China is in. I wonder if there's a rebellion in China, or if they've cosigned themselves to their fate?

There is such coordinated trafficking out of China that I can see people bailing and living undocumented in the U.S. or other countries rather than rebelling if shit hits the fan.

 

[Aurongel]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

Your tinfoil hat looks like it's a bit tight.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

There is such coordinated trafficking out of China that I can see people bailing and living undocumented in the U.S. or other countries rather than rebelling if shit hits the fan.

Yeah...even though China has over a billion people, I wonder if a concentrated effort of half the population would be enough to overthrow the government? Or maybe at this point, being raised in a society like theirs, they just accept humans rights abuses as every day life?

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah...even though China has over a billion people, I wonder if a concentrated effort of half the population would be enough to overthrow the government? Or maybe at this point, being raised in a society like theirs, they just accept humans rights abuses as every day life?

I mean, a lot of societies are like this right up to the point where they very suddenly aren't

 

[dramatis]

I read a bit about this on NPR a while back.

NPR also had a perspective from a non-local worker who had come to Xinjiang for work from the eastern cities, and even he (as a non-Uighur) felt it was too oppressive. Shops are required to close early at night, there's not much socializing, and he was thinking about freedom in his old home.

I'm not sure how much more economically beneficial all this is, considering the mental strain that must hum through the region and the tension between the locals and the people China is sending in to force integration.

 

[STI]

Meh
Us isn’t much better either. At least in the Washington DC metro area

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

This is the sort of shit that Russian trolls post.

 

[Steel]

Meh
Us isn't much better either. At least in the Washington DC metro area

? I mean you can say the U.S. has problems but it's nowhere near this. You're not gonna get arrested for having facebook on your phone. The lengths some people go to to say "But the U.S." can be pretty disturbing.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

This is ethnic cleansing. China is working to eradicate an entire culture

 

[enewtabie]

Meh
Us isn’t much better either. At least in the Washington DC metro area

I'm gonna say you've never been to the US. This isn't anything comparable.

 

[Dyle]

Horrifying story, it's insane what China and Russia have done with facial recognition. I sincerely hope we never get anywhere near that here.

 

[Beartruck]

Meh
Us isn’t much better either. At least in the Washington DC metro area

One is a national capital and the other is the backwoods of the country. If this shit happened in Denver Colorado itd be similar.

 

[CrazyDude]

Notice how they don't do this with the Hui.

 

[kirblar]

Meh
Us isn’t much better either. At least in the Washington DC metro area

How on earth is DC/MD/VA comparable to this?

 

[ahoyhoy]

Meh
Us isn’t much better either. At least in the Washington DC metro area

Noooooope. Only checkpoints around here are for entering government buildings or the occasional DUI checkpoint.

Go back to Moscow comrade.

 

[moltonasty]

Sounds incredibly similar to what the NSA, Homeland Security, TSA, and the rest of the security apparatus in the US are already doing and have been doing for a long time.

I see people piling on you, but you're not wrong at all here.

Obviously this is way worse than the invasions of privacy in the US, but it is absolutely similar. If Trump had things his way we'd be dealing with this on a nationwide level or worse tbh.

 

[Pusherman]

Goddammit, it's so hard to not feel hopeless these days. Especially as someone from a muslim background. How can we ever fight this?

 

[Caja 117]

I see people piling on you, but you're not wrong at all here.

Obviously this is way worse than the invasions of privacy in the US, but it is absolutely similar. If Trump had things his way we'd be dealing with this on a nationwide level or worse tbh.

How can they be similar but china is way worse at the same time?

 

[jmdajr]

Pick your Dystopia!

 

[Rentahamster]

How can they be similar but china is way worse at the same time?

Here's an example: Small pox and cow pox are similar, but small pox is way worse.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Yeah. Like, a Chinese official pays some lip to the environment and I'm supposed to be awed at him being 'humble' for a bit part? Nah. That's just targeted propaganda to the western world, to get that exact reaction. "Wow! He actually cares about the environment! Much better than our country!"

And yeah, it does feel like this past year, there's been alot more propaganda out of China to make them seem in good light, when in fact they are a completely shitty government when it comes to human rights.

I think a lot of GAF has fallen for their propaganda as well. To those people I say leave your country and get a Chinese citizenship (not just a visa because if you're just over in China for work you can still get access to western sites like Facebook on your phone as long as you keep the cellular plan from your home country). Become a Chinese citizen for a few years and let us know if losing freedoms really isn't as bad as you thought.

 

[kirblar]

I think a lot of GAF has fallen for their propaganda as well. To those people I say leave your country and get a Chinese citizenship (not just a visa because if you're just over in China for work you can still get access to western sites like Facebook on your phone as long as you keep the cellular plan from your home country). Become a Chinese citizen for a few years and let us know if losing freedoms really isn't as bad as you though.

They mostly look better in comparison to NK/Russia. In comparison to SK/Japan they obviously look terrible.

 

[Ri'Orius]

How can they be similar but china is way worse at the same time?

Maybe they're using the geometric definition of similar? Y'know, where two triangles are similar if they have the same proportions, even if one is a hundred times bigger than the other?

 

[The Technomancer]

I think a lot of GAF has fallen for their propaganda as well. To those people I say leave your country and get a Chinese citizenship (not just a visa because if you're just over in China for work you can still get access to western sites like Facebook on your phone as long as you keep the cellular plan from your home country). Become a Chinese citizen for a few years and let us know if losing freedoms really isn't as bad as you thought.

Its also really easy to not...see any of this. I go to China several times a year. Shanghai and Beijing and Shenzhen just look like major urban cities. Lot of poor people, lot of people with smartphones, lot of tall buildings, lots of people freely taking the trains places. It doesn't look like North Korea, like what we picture as a "repressive state"

 

[Rentahamster]

I think a lot of GAF has fallen for their propaganda as well. To those people I say leave your country and get a Chinese citizenship (not just a visa because if you're just over in China for work you can still get access to western sites like Facebook on your phone as long as you keep the cellular plan from your home country). Become a Chinese citizen for a few years and let us know if losing freedoms really isn't as bad as you thought.

I think one is capable of having a nuanced view of a particular country, applauding them for the good things they do, and criticizing them for the bad things they do. It's not an all-or-nothing prospect here.

 

[moltonasty]

How can they be similar but china is way worse at the same time?

Not sure what's confusing about this, similar =/= identical.

 

[Steel]

Not sure what's confusing about this, similar =/= identical.

This is like saying there are similarities between a human and a frog because they both breath oxygen. Hell, in terms of a big brother state the UK is closer to that than the U.S. but the UK is still in a different universe than China in those regards.

 

[Diablos]

The future sucks, doesn’t it? All this oppression and there are still no flying cars! Dammit.

 

[hobblygobbly]

They mostly look better in comparison to NK/Russia. In comparison to SK/Japan they obviously look terrible.

China is way worse than Russia though and a stricter authoritarian state, if you look at studies and metrics like the Democracy index Russia is ahead in civil liberties, more political representation like in localities, etc than China.

Chinese government last year organised thugs to surround a woman's home who was running for election in her local district as opposition when a BBC journalist wanted to interview her.

There is nonetheless a lot of similarities in these two governments like how people just "disappear" when their voices become stronger in opposing the government status quo.

Edit: I don't want give off the impression that it is a competition because both are really bad and neither should be admired, both are worse than most governments in the world, there is no other countries besides Russia and China who are so large in terms of government and its population as well as its political presence on the international stage.