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[Guevara]

Dozens of California cities looking to shore up revenues are flirting with a new idea — tax your “Gilmore Girls” binge.

Pasadena was among the first to say publicly this fall that it wanted to tax video streaming services like Netflix, a step that could make up for lost tax revenue from growing numbers of cord-cutters.

At 9.4 percent, the so-called Netflix tax would treat streaming services as a traditional utility, the city said. If you use multiple services — for example, Hulu, Amazon Video and HBO — it would be added to each bill.

The move in Pasadena, with a population of about 140,000, has drawn consternation from technology companies and consumers who worry that it could be copied across the state.

“Websites and apps are not utilities and it defies logic to tax them like electricity, water or gas,” said Noah Theran, spokesman for the Internet Association, a trade group.

No California city has yet to begin collecting the tax. But roughly 40 cities, among them Glendale, Santa Barbara, Stockton and Sacramento, have gotten guidance from municipal consultants on how they might.

...

One question officials would need to resolve is where to stop, analysts say. If streaming video is taxable, then what about music, podcasts or video games?

“It opens a big Pandora’s box,” said Paul Verna, an analyst at eMarketer, a technology research company.

...

Tyron Hampton, a council member who has opposed the tax, said that with the city’s underfunded pensions, officials were right to be looking for novel ways to raise money.

But the web should be off limits, he said: “The basic tenet of the internet is that the internet is supposed to be free.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/us/california-today-netflix-tax-video-streaming.html

Perhaps we could dump Netflix into Boston harbor

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Netflix and bill.

 

[Kthulhu]

Didn't Chicago do something like this?

 

[Skellig Gra]

Sure why not, there was a shitload of tax revenue lost when people got rid of cable tv, gotta make it up somehow.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Pasadena was one of the first cities to enact the plastic bag ban, too.

 

[Stumpokapow]

1) Buy prepaid visa card
2) Put in fake out of state billing address
3) Use Netflix in California
4) Yes, this is tax fraud, like underreporting tipped income.
5) Dodge tax.

 

[SnakeXs]

Sure why not, there was a shitload of tax revenue lost when people got rid of cable tv, gotta make it up somehow.

Pretty much this.

 

[WedgeX]

Pretty surprised they weren't already taxed.

video games

Uhhhh any video games that any of us has ever bought except via steam has been automatically taxed.

Its called sales tax, "technology research company" people.

 

[Jeff Vader]

Who the fuck are these people always wanting to pay more for shit in my state?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

"They would be treating streaming services as a traditional utility."

This isn't 100% clear: Do they have a similar tax on cable? If they do, this seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Sure why not, there was a shitload of tax revenue lost when people got rid of cable tv, gotta make it up somehow.

Wouldn't the better solution be to increase internet/mobile services taxes?

 

[bigkrev]

Yes, digital items/online purchases should be subject to Sales Tax, or at some you need to scrap the concept of sales tax and replace it with some other form of tax

 

[ReAxion]

“Websites and apps are not utilities and it defies logic to tax them like electricity, water or gas,” said Noah Theran, spokesman for the Internet Association, a trade group.

That's 100% right. Don't tax the way the Internet is used, that's anti-neutrality.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Wouldn't the better solution be to increase internet/mobile services taxes?

I think you could make a strong argument that internet is a necessity whereas Netflix is a luxury.

I'm not sure why utilities in general are getting taxed though, unless it's something like electricity which pollutes the environment.

 

[freeofgreed]

Wouldn't the better solution be to increase internet/mobile services taxes?

Yeah this. It seems weird to try to tax a certain type of data from the internet. If anything is a utility it'd be the internet as whole, which is were the tax increases should go.

 

[Captain Pants]

I can't afford much these days, but I can afford Netflix. I suspect that is true of most people struggling. Make up that tax revenue from people who can afford to pay more.

 

[freeofgreed]

I think you could make a strong argument that internet is a necessity whereas Netflix is a luxury.

Ok where does the buck end though? Tax Facebook, Youtube, Neogaf, PSN? All Luxuries by that definition.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

All these fuckers know how to do to offset their shitty fiscal management is to try to invent new taxes.

 

[totowhoa]

"They would be treating streaming services as a traditional utility."

This isn't 100% clear: Do they have a similar tax on cable? If they do, this seems perfectly reasonable.

But should they be taxing cable or streaming services? Something like this disproportionately affects poor people anyway. I think it's a stupid, arbitrary thing to tax. Why disincentivize non-harmful and potentially educational entertainment anyway?

 

[freeofgreed]

All these fuckers know how to do to offset their shitty fiscal management is to try to invent new taxes.

Yeah no kidding.

 

[paragonpro]

Haha fuck you im not paying taxes for using streaming services.

 

[Piggus]

And your northern neighbor laughs.

 

[Jeff Vader]

All these fuckers know how to do to offset their shitty fiscal management is to try to invent new taxes.

And it gets passed too.

 

[mr jones]

Wow. Interesting times we live in.

As was already said, horrible precedent if it goes through. Why stop at video streaming, if you can tax ANY streaming service?

Fight this, Californians.

 

[Spacebar]

1) Buy prepaid visa card
2) Put in fake out of state billing address
3) Use Netflix in California
4) Yes, this is tax fraud, like underreporting tipped income.
5) Dodge tax.

That's smart.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

So, this is how Republicans are born.

 

[WedgeX]

Ok where does the buck end though? Tax Facebook, Youtube, Neogaf, PSN? All Luxuries by that definition.

If you can't separate streaming services, that have the exact same content and subscription models as cable which already are taxed, from browsing websites...then I don't know how to help you.

If you don't want sales tax, vote for increases to the upper levels of income taxes.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Ok where does the buck end though? Tax Facebook, Youtube, Neogaf? All Luxuries by that definition.

I mean you don't pay for any of those to begin with. And taxing something like the New York Times would be awful since Newspapers are very much in the public good (and struggling).

To be clear I think that taxing non-polluting utilities is stupid. However, if California charges a tax on cable (and the article didn't make it clear whether they do or not), it's kind of unfair to not charge Netflix the same tax.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Never a stronger argument for net neutrality than when municipalities think that each individual service should be subject to taxation as a public utility.

But we'll not get that. Instead, we won't get net neutrality AND municipalities will be taking their cut.

 

[Stinkles]

I agree with this if it only applies to people watching the Adam Sandler films.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I moved away from California 14 years ago now. Every time I think I might want to go back, something like this happens. Oh well.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Yes, digital items/online purchases should be subject to Sales Tax, or at some you need to scrap the concept of sales tax and replace it with some other form of tax

Yeah I think this is better resolved through an extension of the sales tax which should apply to online purchases/services.

 

[AndyD]

Yeah this. It seems weird to try to tax a certain type of data from the internet. If anything is a utility it'd be the internet as whole, which is were the tax increases should go.

This is the right way to do it. Tax the actual utility, the internet, not the use of that utility, be it music, video or news sites. Also apply sales taxes to online things. But not utility taxes.

 

[Septimus Prime]

All these fuckers know how to do to offset their shitty fiscal management is to try to invent new taxes.

I'm still miffed about FasTrak, where we have to pay for a machine to have the privilege to pay to use toll lanes funded and maintained by our taxes. What the fuck is that.

 

[TyrantII]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/us/california-today-netflix-tax-video-streaming.html

Perhaps we could dump Netflix into Boston harbor

FYI, Boston Tea Party was about keeping high tarrifs on EITC British tea to protect the less than reputable Colonial merchants dealing in local brew (sometimes stolen). It's was protectionist and pro tarrifs (tax), and really about a lack of representation in British parliament.

Might be thinking of the stamp act, but that was repealed almost a decade earlier.

 

[vinnygambini]

In Canada, Shomi and CraveTV (Canadian Netflix equivalent-ish) both have taxes applied to the services. I think it's logical to add the same thinking to Netflix too.

 

[KingBroly]

1) Buy prepaid visa card
2) Put in fake out of state billing address
3) Use Netflix in California
4) Yes, this is tax fraud, like underreporting tipped income.
5) Dodge tax.

eh...I don't think people should be advocating tax fraud with how much the Government spies on people.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

1) Buy prepaid visa card

But prepaid visa cards cost extra...

 

[Mesoian]

Wouldn't the better solution be to increase internet/mobile services taxes?

Then they'd have to work with the telcoms to actually increase penetration of existing networks and that's NEVER going to happen.

 

[Big Blue]

If you can't separate streaming services, that have the exact same content and subscription models as cable which already taxed, from browsing websites...then I don't know how to help you.

If you don't want sales tax, vote for increases to the upper levels of income taxes.

It's called a slippery slope. Ever hear of it??

 

[Robot Carnival]

if you want to treat streaming service as utilities, then you better control the ISP's ridiculous price in these areas too.

 

[WedgeX]

I mean you don't pay for any of those to begin with. And taxing something like the New York Times would be awful since Newspapers are very much in the public good (and struggling).

To be clear I think that taxing non-polluting utilities is stupid. However, if California charges a tax on cable (and the article didn't make it clear whether they do or not), it's kind of unfair to not charge Netflix the same tax.

Subscriptions to the NY Times are taxed.

It's called a slippery slope. Ever hear of it??

Indeed. And its the embodiment of a logical fallacy.

 

[Calamari41]

This kind of thinking is why Calexit would create a failed nation. They'd figure out a way to make everyone's effective tax rate over 100%.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

It's called a slippery slope. Ever hear of it??

Slippery Slope is best known as a fallacy for a reason. If you buy something or pay for services in a state with a sales tax, you should have to pay the tax, regardless of whether the good or service is digital or physical.

 

[timetokill]

It's amazing how desperate California is for money.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Uhhhh any video games that any of us has ever bought except via steam has been automatically taxed.

Its called sales tax, "technology research company" people.

NOPE. Not in California at least. Digital goods are not currently taxable in CA.

 

[tebunker]

Sure why not, there was a shitload of tax revenue lost when people got rid of cable tv, gotta make it up somehow.

Right, or maybe shitty local govts should have never cut sweet deals for local monopolies with shitty cable companies. Perhaps if the companies were actually forced to compete for business less people would cut the cords.

I know not every where is like this but for far too long many companies have had and still have local monopolies on cable television services because this was guaranteed income to municipalities etc.

The whole system is rotten and it needs to be broken down. Woe to the town that tries to go after this tax revenue.

 

[Iorv3th]

Tyron Hampton, a council member who has opposed the tax, said that with the city’s underfunded pensions, officials were right to be looking for novel ways to raise money.

underfunded pensions? This is part of the problem. I know 2 people that were teachers retired when they hit 50 and get 60,000 a year each. So 120,000 a year for that household as 'retirement' for 30+ years (assuming they live 80+) and then they have to hire new teachers on top of that and offer them pensions as well.

It's a messed up system and instead of doing anything to fix it they want to tax more so they can retire with the same benefits.

Right, or maybe shitty local govts should have never cut sweet deals for local monopolies with shitty cable companies. Perhaps if the companies were actually forced to compete for business less people would cut the cords.

I know not every where is like this but for far too long many companies have had and still have local monopolies on cable television services because this was guaranteed income to municipalities etc.

The whole system is rotten and it needs to be broken down. Woe to the town that tries to go after this tax revenue.

A lot of them also have monopolies because the companies are the ones that buried the cable and for another company to come in they would have to either run their own cable or pay the first company that did it a fee.

1) Buy prepaid visa card
2) Put in fake out of state billing address
3) Use Netflix in California
4) Yes, this is tax fraud, like underreporting tipped income.
5) Dodge tax.

Or if your parents live in a different non taxed city have the service subscribed to them and it's not really 'tax fraud'. Your just using their service that you also pay for them.

 

[WedgeX]

NOPE. Not in California at least. Digital goods are not currently taxable in CA.

Which is why I said except for steam. Meaning in person purchases. Sorry for not being so clear.

 

[George Washington]

All these fuckers know how to do to offset their shitty fiscal management is to try to invent new taxes.

This.