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[angrod14]

Consider this scenario:

Adam buys a brand new copy of Demon Souls (PS5). He plays it on his own console, which is connected to the internet, and logged to his personal account ("adam123").

Once he finishes the game, he sells it to Robert, who plays it in his own console, also connected to the internet, and also logged to his personal account ("robert456").

The question is: can Sony know if that exact same physical disc of Demon Souls was played by Adam, and then Robert, and so on?

If the answer is yes, then it implies every disc has a unique digital identifier pressed on it that is logged by the console and then transmitted to the net. Otherwise, every disc copy is absolutely identical and there's no way to know which one is which.

This data would appear harmless, but I think it would let the manufacturer know how many "new" sales of a game they loose every time a certain physical copy is transfered.

I know the boxes have a unique serial number, but I don't know about the discs.

What about Switch cartridges?

 

[P.Jack]

No they can not, they are all identical.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm not planning to buy Demons Souls any time soon.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Discs no as far as I know.

Switch cartridges yes. That's how Nintendo bans cartridges that have been dumped and distributed illegaly and why playing a pirated game on a modded switch will get you banned.

 

[bender]

If I were Robert, I'd find Adam and...

 

[Killer8]

Every Switch cart has a unique ID.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Dunno about switch but sharing your ps5 discs is allowed, has been for ages with any PS disc. Thats why a lot of ppl prefer physical, they can sell/resell/trade/etc.

 

[Guilty_AI]

As others said, this is the case for the Switch but probably not for the PS5.

That said, its still possible to identify how many sales they "lose" by simply comparing the number of officially sold copies with the numbers of users who played that specific game.

 

[angrod14]

Switch cartridges yes. That's how Nintendo bans cartridges that have been dumped and distributed illegaly and why playing a pirated game on a modded switch will get you banned.

As others said, this is the case for the Switch but probably not for the PS5.

This is... dangerous. Imagine you innocently buy a Mario Odyssey cartridge from Robert, without knowing that he previously dumped that cartridge and distributed it online, and was flagged by Nintendo.

You insert the game in your console, and Nintendo nukes your account and system? That's insane.

It also de-anonymizes the purchase of physical games, to an extent. Through the ID, they can know X game was purchased from Amazon, GameStop, a certain Duty Free, or from a previous user, etc.

 

[Guilty_AI]

This is... dangerous. Imagine you innocently buy a Mario Odyssey cartridge from Robert, without knowing that he previously dumped that cartridge and distributed it online, and was flagged by Nintendo.

You insert the game in your console, and Nintendo nukes your account and system? That's insane.

It also de-anonymizes the purchase of physical games, to an extent. Through the ID, they can know X game was purchased from Amazon, GameStop, a certain Duty Free, or from a previous user, etc.

That already has been reported to have happened all the way back during the Switch beginnings.

** CAUTION ** - Nintendo Now Banning Physical Game Carts

A friend of mine tipped me off to this recent Tweet, by @SciresM... https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/1009436235536871424

gbatemp.net

 

[StereoVsn]

Discs no as far as I know.

Switch cartridges yes. That's how Nintendo bans cartridges that have been dumped and distributed illegaly and why playing a pirated game on a modded switch will get you banned.

The Switch cart unique identifier will start causing issues on the used market now with the recent cart export hardware and that Switch cart allowing you to run multiple games.

MS wanted to embed unique identifiers into disk versions for Xbone, part of their plan to prevent used game reselling.

 

[th4tguy]

Truly there is a really good chance this is the case for disk games but just used for metrics at this time

 

[ReyBrujo]

You insert the game in your console, and Nintendo nukes your account and system? That's insane.

That's the fear now people have with the Mig ecosystem. The main issue apparently is that in some countries (US?) you can buy a game, dump it and then return it. Nintendo isn't banning people just because the same cart id appears in two different consoles, however they have always been banning people if the same cart id is played at the same time in two or more locations (because that should be impossible). Note that they don't ban Nintendo accounts, they first ban the cartridge and soon after the console.

 

[angrod14]

Note that they don't ban Nintendo accounts, they first ban the cartridge and soon after the console.

But how can they "ban" a cartridge. That's impossible. The catridge doesn't need internet connection to run, and you can't remove the data or write data over it. It's only readable.

 

[ReyBrujo]

But how can they "ban" a cartridge. That's impossible. The catridge doesn't need internet connection to run, and you can't remove the data or write data over it. It's only readable.

No, it doesn't so you can play in airplane mode. But if you are connected to internet the console always reports to the Nintendo server sending the cart id and some Switch information back and forth to get authorization to play the game. For offline games that communication still exists but it's not mandated, for online cartridges it is. There was a thread back in the day explaining how all that worked.

 

[ReBurn]

They're watching everything you do.

 

[P.Jack]

I do know for a fact that discs cannot be traced because it is impossible since they are identical. But I had no idea about Nintendo tracking cartridges.That’s actually terrible and a big L for physical switch games.

 

[Robb]

As some have mentioned, discs are fine. Cartridges tend to have individual keys though, so each copy is definitely traceable.

I’ve never heard of individual carts being banned though. And I’m not really sure what could even happen. I’d guess that maybe the online functionality gets cut off and that’s it (?).

But yeah, the scary part is definitely the possibility of banning your actual account itself.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

The Switch cart unique identifier will start causing issues on the used market now with the recent cart export hardware and that Switch cart allowing you to run multiple games.

MS wanted to embed unique identifiers into disk versions for Xbone, part of their plan to prevent used game reselling.

I've not been following the MiG Switch flash cart thing that closely, but I'll say that this has soured me a bit on collecting physical games for the Switch considering there's now a non-zero chance you might end up getting your account or even your console banned by unknowingly buying and using one of these dumped carts from eBay, fb marketplace, etc.

Maybe Nintendo will ban just these dumped carts and not the account and/or console but idk.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

I do know for a fact that discs cannot be traced because it is impossible since they are identical. But I had no idea about Nintendo tracking cartridges.That’s actually terrible and a big L for physical switch games.

Didn't know that, either. One of these many little instances where the majority on GAF goes "but it doesn't affect me", "i got nothing to hide", "i never cheat in an online game", "it doesn't hurt you, does it?" and, the classic, "without online games are worthless anyways" and so on and so on and... these things sum up to something quite distasteful if you ask me.

 

[ManaByte]

This is... dangerous. Imagine you innocently buy a Mario Odyssey cartridge from Robert, without knowing that he previously dumped that cartridge and distributed it online, and was flagged by Nintendo.

You insert the game in your console, and Nintendo nukes your account and system? That's insane.

It also de-anonymizes the purchase of physical games, to an extent. Through the ID, they can know X game was purchased from Amazon, GameStop, a certain Duty Free, or from a previous user, etc.

Never fuck with Nintendo.

 

[Skifi28]

Other than ray tracing, probably not.

 

[StereoVsn]

I've not been following the MiG Switch flash cart thing that closely, but I'll say that this has soured me a bit on collecting physical games for the Switch considering there's now a non-zero chance you might end up getting your account or even your console banned by unknowingly buying and using one of these dumped carts from eBay, fb marketplace, etc.

Maybe Nintendo will ban just these dumped carts and not the account and/or console but idk.

Yeah, basically need to buy shrink wrapped now which sucks… a lot.

 

[nowhat]

Of course. You just have to be sure that whatever cartridge/disc you are firing is sufficiently well attached to the tracer ammo.

 

[ReyBrujo]

I’ve never heard of individual carts being banned though. And I’m not really sure what could even happen. I’d guess that maybe the online functionality gets cut off and that’s it (?).

Talking about Nintendo and online games that's what happens, the server blacklists the individual certificates which ends up in any console using that certificate being banned (because it's assumed the only cause for banning a certificate at this moment is because it's considered a pirated copy and because the only consoles being able to play pirated copies up to a month or so ago were the hacked ones). The console itself still functions, you can still play offline games and even get firmware upgrades but you can no longer access the shop or any online functionality. The certificate ban (error code 2124-4025 when trying to play the game) occurred about 24 hours after playing a pirated game with the console ban (error code 2124-4007) taking up to a week. It wouldn't surprise me if they made that check mandatory for the Switch 2, especially since it supports backwards compatibility and there are already R4-like carts that can load any game.

 

[MrRenegade]

The question is: can Sony know if that exact same physical disc of Demon Souls was played by Adam, and then Robert, and so on?

If the answer is yes, then it implies every disc has a unique digital identifier pressed on it that is logged by the console and then transmitted to the net. Otherwise, every disc copy is absolutely identical and there's no way to know which one is which.

This data would appear harmless, but I think it would let the manufacturer know how many "new" sales of a game they loose every time a certain physical copy is transfered.

I know the boxes have a unique serial number, but I don't know about the discs.

Optical discs could also have unique identifiers. The question is whether they use it or not. Nowadays your car snitches on you, your phone is essentially a tracking oppressor device. So prepare that someone, somewhere knows that you have bought some game that mostly pedos buy after a certain age. You must be on a list by now. Check black cars outside. If you start hearing sounds right in your skull, then run.

 

[angrod14]

Optical discs could also have unique identifiers. The question is whether they use it or not. Nowadays your car snitches on you, your phone is essentially a tracking oppressor device. So prepare that someone, somewhere knows that you have bought some game that mostly pedos buy after a certain age. You must be on a list by now. Check black cars outside. If you start hearing sounds right in your skull, then run.

Crack is wack man.

 

[MrRenegade]

Crack is whack man.

Do you need citations? Or prefer the ostrich stance?