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Can we talk about old-school first person dungeon crawlers?
- Thread starter StoppedInTracks
- Start date
StoppedInTracks
Member
I've updated my 3 main posts, aligned all the pics (so they are the same size) and added one new to each title.
Next titles to be featured: Elder Scrolls, Wizardries, Descent to Undermountain etc.
Next titles to be featured: Elder Scrolls, Wizardries, Descent to Undermountain etc.
Of All Trades
Member
Don't try to get creative with your character classes. Stick with the classic: Fighter/Thief/Mage/Cleric. The game basically expects you to have this setup.
Make use of companions. And, if memory serves, you want to get everyone the ability to shoot arrows.
Alternatively, if the sale is still going, get M&M7 and play that instead as it's a better game (use the 6-pack to go back to 6, but more importantly play 3-4-5). I disagree strongly with the OP (the dungeons in 7 are much better, particularly in the endgame which is where M&M6 starts to fall apart with these giant enemy horde dungeons that get boring) on his ranking of the latter M&Ms, and I suspect my opinion is not the minority when I say that 7>6>>8>>>>>>>>>>9.
Really I find a more than a few of the OPs opinions to be overly positive. Lands of Lore 2 was not well received (major pubs were giving it 70s and low 80s, which was really a bad score for then). Stonekeep was not underrated (it may have reviewed better if it hadn't been delayed so frequently). A lot of these games, however, are much more playable now, in spite of their interfaces, due to the internet providing walkthroughs and guidance, which was a real problem for some of the games with completely baffling solutions to puzzles, poorly designed mazes, and inept interfaces creating problems.
IlludiumQ36
Member
Amazing work. Thorough and informing. Subscribed.
Shadow Hog
Member
Shining The Holy Ark
Yup. Only game in this genre I've actually tried, this. Graphics are a bit ugly and the framerate chugs like mad, but it's genuinely pretty fun. Fairly typical JRPG combat system mixed with plenty of first-person dungeon-crawling - nothing particularly unique or outstanding, but it does what it sets out to do well enough.
cicero
Member
This is a fantastic site with a focus on games from Origin Systems. Linking to his blog posts with magazine and other scans.
Ultima Underworld:
PC Review review scans
PC Plus Ultima 7/Underworld review scans
Ultima Underworld Map Stats
Ultima Underworld Store Poster I wish I had this!@#
Ultima Underworld 2:
PC Format Privateer / Ultima Underworld 2 preview scans
PC Review review scans
PC Zone review scans
PC Format review scans
These other scans (novels, cluebooks, manuals, catalogs) are great as well. Not sure how questionable this stuff is rights wise, just going to link to the main downloads. *cough* Official Book Of Ultima, Avatar Adventures, More Avatar Adventures, etc. Non-Origin dungeon crawl related scans of interest, Stonekeep Thera Awakening Novella, Lands Of Lore Clue Book, Lands Of Lore 2 Official Guide. GOG is missing the Lands of Lore books.
http://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/downloads/
Ultima Underworld:
PC Review review scans
PC Plus Ultima 7/Underworld review scans
Ultima Underworld Map Stats
Ultima Underworld Store Poster I wish I had this!@#
Ultima Underworld 2:
PC Format Privateer / Ultima Underworld 2 preview scans
PC Review review scans
PC Zone review scans
PC Format review scans
These other scans (novels, cluebooks, manuals, catalogs) are great as well. Not sure how questionable this stuff is rights wise, just going to link to the main downloads. *cough* Official Book Of Ultima, Avatar Adventures, More Avatar Adventures, etc. Non-Origin dungeon crawl related scans of interest, Stonekeep Thera Awakening Novella, Lands Of Lore Clue Book, Lands Of Lore 2 Official Guide. GOG is missing the Lands of Lore books.
http://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/downloads/
Minsc
Gold Member
Speaking of sales, any one play Devil Whiskey? It's on sale for a few more days, for ~75% off. I'm probably going to grab it for after Grimrock (which is where I saw it mentioned), it seems pretty decent and has not yet been mentioned here.
cicero
Member
Etrian Odyssey
Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard
Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City
The Dark Spire
I think all are OOP now though. Used copies will probably run from the $20-30 range for the Etrians, $10-20 range for Dark Spire. Prices are really starting to bump up a bit though.
I picked up that bundle mainly for Devil Whiskey. I haven't had a chance to play it yet but it's a game I've been interested in for a while but was waiting for a sale price. Interesting to see they have a new version of Mordor in development as well, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for that.
ThatStupidLion
Member
I posted like 4 posts above you. Undercroft.
TheContact
Member
Akalabeth. It's on the iPhone!
It's so bad!
It's so bad!
ElectricThunder
Member
According to legends, you want THIS same as you want Co8 stuff for ToEE due to dev woes and wonkiness:
http://www.weekendwastemonster.net/crpgs/dw/dw.html
StoppedInTracks
Member
Kind of amazing that the above still works with the floppies and all.
Yeah, the inside of the case was pristine, too. My dad kept everything in the original boxes, along with all the paperwork, receipts, etc. I'm the same way, so the apple definitely didn't fall far from the tree.
StoppedInTracks
Member
That is the exact truth.
If I were to post OMG RANKING!!11 of Might and Magic games it would go 6 > 4=5 > 3 > 8 > 7 > 2 > 1 > 9.
(keep in mind I have an unnatural hatred towards MM7)
cicero
Member
Dusted off the old family Apple //e a couple weeks ago to revisit one of my all-time favorites of the genre:
That is a fantastic sight.
cj_iwakura
Member
Personal opinion?
-Etrian Odyssey I, III, II (In that order)
-Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
-The Dark Spire
The latter was $5 everywhere for months, you can still find it at some GameStops for dirt cheap.
Strange Journey is at some right now for $14.99.
I happily bought it for $35.
Man, I need to get on this. MM4+5 on the go sounds awfully appealing.
How does keyboard input work for Dosbox on Android? That's always been the problem with my attempts at Dos emulators on the PSP and DS.
ElectricThunder
Member
The sacred rule for buying Dark Spire is that you DO NOT buy a copy unless it includes the Soundtrack CD. Seriously, it is worth it completely----got my copy when it first came out at full price and not a regret was had even if the game could've been much better had they managed to turn it into a series, though I still hold out hope.
Main thing is, I don't know that there has been so much "heart" put into a soundtrack since Lords of Thunder...
Main thing is, I don't know that there has been so much "heart" put into a soundtrack since Lords of Thunder...
The 8-bit soundtrack is amazing
I really didn't like the game, though. I think people would be better off playing Wizardry 1 on the NES
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
I am definitely looking forward to Grimrock. I've been playing more of Wizardry: LoLS to scratch the dungeon-delving itch in the meantime. As simple as it is, it's still one of my favorite PSN games. Hoping XSEED decides to localize the sequel.
I've got the original Droid so I have the full physical keyboard, on DosBox Turbo you hold down the fn and alt keys to access the other characters.
Holy shit. Wizardry I is like juggling dynamite as you run across hot coals while you're being chased by bears that are made entirely of fire. Somewhere a DM is still laughing at that starting party they give you
Mr_Appleby
Member
you can always install something like Hacker's Keyboard, but be warned the keys are teeny tiny.
UncleSporky
Member
M&M6:
Can clerics/sorcerers learn both light and dark magic at the same time, or are you required to choose one? Or is it recommended to just pick one because it requires a lot of skill point investment anyway?
Are there any prereqs, like you have to be promoted or do a quest, or can you just buy them like any other skill?
M&M4 and 5 (Xeen):
Is there a way to fight turn-based like in M&M6? I really dislike active battles on the scale of M&Ms. 6 handles it perfectly, and Grimrock is on a smaller scale and doesn't look annoying at all, but M&M, man...
If you have to fight that way, any tips?
Can clerics/sorcerers learn both light and dark magic at the same time, or are you required to choose one? Or is it recommended to just pick one because it requires a lot of skill point investment anyway?
Are there any prereqs, like you have to be promoted or do a quest, or can you just buy them like any other skill?
M&M4 and 5 (Xeen):
Is there a way to fight turn-based like in M&M6? I really dislike active battles on the scale of M&Ms. 6 handles it perfectly, and Grimrock is on a smaller scale and doesn't look annoying at all, but M&M, man...
If you have to fight that way, any tips?
Ah, having a keypad would work great. I've wanted a handheld Dos platform for years and haven't found anything that works well. Is this similar to what you have?
http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_milestone-3001.php
It looks like the screen has 480 pixel vertical resolution when held sideways which would be perfect for 320x240 and 640x480 EGA and VGA resolutions. One of the problems with the DS for DOS games is it doesn't have enough vertical resolution.
Edit - In searching around for qwerty Android devices I found this:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Android-tablet-with-QWERTY-keypad-hits-FCC.64664.0.html
Which looks like it would work great for a portable DOS machine, big enough screen for my old eyes and full keyboard with arrow keys. Now where do I find something like this and for how much?
I thought MM 3-5 all played very similarly? 3 is definitely turn-based. The enemies don't do anything while you idle.
There is some discussion here about getting the original version of Demise to work in a VM under Windows 7:
http://www.decklinsdomain.info/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3836
You would need to have a your own copy of Windows XP to install in the VM or Win 7 pro/ultimate which has XP preinstalled.
Or as you mentioned upgrade to Demise Ascension which works under Win7 natively. I have Ascension and have played a bit but need to get some time to get back to it. I think I have deaders scattered all over the place, I keep having to start new parties to rescue my old ones
Lots of fun.UncleSporky
Member
Oh, maybe I just assumed that seeing the enemies in the field like that meant I needed to act quickly. I'll give it another try.
Basically I bought the gog 6 pack and played each for 10 minutes on the way up to 6 which I really wanted to play based on the OP.
3-5 are very much so worth playing, especially if you enjoy 6. I wouldn't go back to 1 and 2.
On a slightly different topic.
I really need to play EotB 2 and 3.
StoppedInTracks
Member
All M&Ms can be played with turn-based battles.
In fact it is only starting from M&M6 where you can play the games with realtime combat (and you will later on where you have a powerful party and just mow down everything with spells and swords).
As for your questions regarding Light/ Dark path and buying spells... I totally don't remember
I know for sure you cannot get promoted in your class to a higher level without finding the corresponding trainer and doing some quests (some really fancy).
I noticed there is a manual in the GOG version - maybe try looking there? For sure somebody who played the game less than 10 years ago (like me) can help you! Don't give up and let the game open up for you. New Sorpigal is really *nothing* compared to the rest of the game.
Might and Magic VI is possibly the best RPG I have played. The OP got it right, it's the Skyrim of the 90's.
Too bad I never got a chance to finish it, kept my save file for 10 years, but I lost it a few years ago when I was formatting my computer or something...
It's a properly amazing game where you can go back to the first area after you're a bad ass and kill 30 goblins with one meteor spell...that felt so good.
Protip: equip all of your characters with bows regardless of their class, in addition to their regular weapons. Very useful.
Another thing I remember is that you can cheat by saving/loading when you're enchanting an item.
It's also better than Skyrim in the sense that the locations have actual variability. You get haunted areas, deserts, tropical islands, snowy mountains, volcanoes, etc.
One thing I remember is that at first I thought the game was like Diablo where you'd just get a quest and go into the dungeon near New Sorpigal to kill some spiders and that would be it. However the game world is HUGE.
Too bad I never got a chance to finish it, kept my save file for 10 years, but I lost it a few years ago when I was formatting my computer or something...
It's a properly amazing game where you can go back to the first area after you're a bad ass and kill 30 goblins with one meteor spell...that felt so good.
Protip: equip all of your characters with bows regardless of their class, in addition to their regular weapons. Very useful.
Another thing I remember is that you can cheat by saving/loading when you're enchanting an item.
It's also better than Skyrim in the sense that the locations have actual variability. You get haunted areas, deserts, tropical islands, snowy mountains, volcanoes, etc.
One thing I remember is that at first I thought the game was like Diablo where you'd just get a quest and go into the dungeon near New Sorpigal to kill some spiders and that would be it. However the game world is HUGE.
Shadow Hog
Member
Which reminds me that I never bothered to buy this one.
How exactly was it? I trust it's no Doom, or even a Heretic, but decent enough?
There is some discussion here about getting the original version of Demise to work in a VM under Windows 7:
http://www.decklinsdomain.info/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3836
You would need to have a your own copy of Windows XP to install in the VM or Win 7 pro/ultimate which has XP preinstalled.
Or as you mentioned upgrade to Demise Ascension which works under Win7 natively. I have Ascension and have played a bit but need to get some time to get back to it. I think I have deaders scattered all over the place, I keep having to start new parties to rescue my old ones
You dont need other chars to rez dead ones. You can just select wait to be rescued, you'll age a bit (or a lot if youre deep), but its barely an issue even if youre human.
I will search through my boxes of old magazines when I get the opportunity (at a different location).
Yeah, but that feels like cheating to me and from playing the original Mordor age did become a problem for some of my characters eventually. Plus I actually like that part of the game and wish more games would incorporate something similar. It actually attaches some consequences to dying rather than just loading your last save. And it isn't as harsh of a consequence as perm death. It's kind of fun running across a long lost char that fell down a chute way back when.
cicero
Member
StoppedInTracks
Member
Aging is a pretty cool mechanic in RPGs. Early Might and Magic games feature it as well (you can die of old age). Luckily there is always Fountain of Youth
Kong Fisso
Banned
It plays nothing like Doom or Heretic, since it's turn based. It does play like Doom RPG.
It's decent. As I said a few pages back, Doom RPG is better, but this is still a nice, simple game. It's not super hard or complex, but still quite enjoyable.
There are huge consequences for dying. You lose all your gold, and later on you age a lot. You can't load your last save in this, you just click on wait for rescue and youll be brought back to town and will lose a point of CON. You will die lot in this game, you don't need to make it harder. Almost no one who plays this game beats it as it is.
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