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Canada Approves Two Pipelines, Axes One, Calls it a Climate Victory

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Dr.Acula

Banned
Well they have 3 years to patch it up and I'm sure legalizing the recreational marijuana industry in BC will make them forget this evvvver happened. ;)

People wonder why MJ legislation is taking so long. Voters vote on what you did at the end of your term, not the beginning.
 

jstripes

Banned
Perhaps a more neutral source for the news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-cabinet-trudeau-pipeline-decisions-1.3872828



More details at the link.

Like others said, this was the most balanced approach of what the other 3 parties would have propose. Also, revenues gained from the project will go towards alternative fuels.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rachel-notley-christy-clark-trans-mountain-1.3874352

After reading the facts, I'm actually ok with this.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Should have been changes decades ago.
Now we're on a slim timeline and Alberta is planting their feet.

Yeah, Alberta needed to diversify ages ago. The NDP here has some nice ideas, but none of them are feasible within a short time frame (then again, nothing would be).

And the general population seems to be increasingly annoyed at the lack of turnaround in the economy, which is of no fault of the NDP. So next election we'll no doubt get some jackasses like the Wild Rose who will undo every positive thing the NDP did and steer the province right back to oil, oil, and more oil for decades to come.
 
Can't really get mad at this. The problem with it all is fossil fuel demand, not supply. We need to change the demand side, because there is too much supply anyway at the moment. If Canada doesn't do it, the oil will come from somewhere else. If it is a matter of making oil more expensive, do it with taxes.
 

Xe4

Banned
Should have been changes decades ago.
Now we're on a slim timeline and Alberta is planting their feet.
Should've, but wasn't. Shit, AGW wasn't even a mainstream political issue until the 1990's, and even then it wasn't really big until the 2000's. Looking back and saying what we should've done gets us nowhere. Instead, we need to do what we can now.

The left can either make incremental chages to moving to a post carbon gas world, and adressing climate change, or they can do something stupid like crossing their arms and refusing to have anything the carbon gas industry, getting a right wing idiot elected. One is a workable strategy and the other is not.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Canada's economy is driven by commodities and natural resources. The demand for oil does not magically disappear if the pipelines aren't built and likely someone else will step up to provide it if Canada does not.

It would be incredibly stupid if the Canadian government decides to suddenly and needlessly kneecap itself economically in some futile symbolic gesture by rejecting the Kinder Morgan pipeline.

Pretty much this.

I feel like some people make a stink about this stuff without actually reading about the benefits of it or the consequences of not following through with the project. As long as Canada's greenhouse emissions aren't impacted by this I'm ok with this.
 
to those complaining about the outcome, just curios to know what they think an Ideal outcome is?

you can't please both sides in this situation, I think this is a good balance struck here
 

Madness

Member
What do you expect Canada to do? Globalism and american industrial dominance has eroddd or ended every major Canadian industry except Petrochemicals. Canada needs the oil sands, it needs natural gas and other resources or there is very little left in the long run.

That said, why are people surprised? Liberals are a stop gap between the Conservatives and NDP. They usually lean Conservative on economic issues and NDP on social ones. Can't wait until China gets to buy all this cheap and very polluted tarsands oil in which it will run through pristine forests.
 

mdubs

Banned
to those complaining about the outcome, just curios to know what they think an Ideal outcome is?

you can't please both sides in this situation, I think this is a good balance struck here

I agree with this, he's walking a very fine tightrope here. Either way he goes he is going to have angry people calling for his head.
 

Dazzler

Member
I just don't get the hysteria over this decision on social media

Trudeau had a real sophie's choice on his hands here. If he didn't allow the pipeline through, it risked literally thousands of jobs in Alberta.

Weigh that up vs the small chance of an environmental accident and the decision seems straightforward
 
Here is the thing. In an ideal world, we would have moved over to a plant based system for plastics and gotten rid of the need for Oil and Gas altogether. But sadly, this is not an ideal world. The world has too much supply for Oil, so even if Canada was to stop 100% of its production tomorrow, the world would continue on as it always has and will just move to getting oil from the middle east and other areas.

When it comes to these pipelines, if Trudeau tells Alberta to go fuck itself, Alberta will elect a nutjob to the Conservatives and the Country will elect the fucker because the Conservatives are a major party and the one which takes charge when people are tired of the Liberals. At that point, the idiots will put in place anti-climate policies and we are back where we started, except with a Harper 2.0.

On the other hand, if Trudeau approves some of these pipelines, he gets Alberta on its side and they don't feel as strongly about electing a nutjob to the Conservative Party. On top of this, Alberta will be able to play along with the Liberals Climate Strategy because they had their only demand met.

At the same time, the Kinder Morgan Pipeline is twining an existing pipeline, which is less obtrusive and less dangerous than the Northern Gateway which was cancelled which was going to go through Aboriginal Land just to go through Aboriginal Land and through a protected rainforest because fuck you.

Without the pipelines, the oil still gets produced, and Alberta simply forces it over Rail and Truck which is more likely to cause environmental harm than a tightly regulated and monitored pipeline. So, it sucks, but after looking at all of the statistics... all of the causes and effects of what each individual policy means, and approving these is really the only option.
 
I accept that climate change is real and mostly influenced by humans at this time.

This move by Trudeau is a good compromise. We are one of the first countries to actually have some significant carbon policy in play and these projects are going to actually help us invest in renewables and make that transition easier.
 
D

Deleted member 126221

Unconfirmed Member
But he took selfies at the Gay Pride and made appearances on popular progressive Youtube channels, how could he do that?!
lol.
 

subrock

Member
It's a shame that these got approved but I doubt they'll ever get built. BC is going to continue to fight like hell against Kinder Morgan. I wish we could get our shit together and move to renewables in a big way, rather than propping the oil and gas industry
 

Xe4

Banned
But he took selfies at the Gay Pride and made appearances on popular progressive Youtube channels, how could he do that?!
lol.
He's a politician; it's his job to compromise while still working towards his eventual long term goals. Harper would have built all three and not carbon taxes now (which is one of the things that was bargained for the pipelines being built), soo...
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Why are pipelines even a problem. Do people really think oil companies will just allow the oil they risked millions on just for the chance to extract it to just sit there? They transport it by sea or by truck. Theses pipelines are the most environmentally friendly methods to begin with.
 

Dipper145

Member
Happy to see this get approved. Will create a significant amount of jobs and help the Canadian economy as a whole. Line 3 replacement is also a great plan to reduce environmental damage from the leaky line.
 

djkimothy

Member
Why are pipelines even a problem. Do people really think oil companies will just allow the oil they risked millions on just for the chance to extract it to just sit there? They transport it by sea or by truck. Theses pipelines are the most environmentally friendly methods to begin with.

i find it funny listening to the conservatives shit over the decision that they started. Liberals have been finalizing/maintaining a lot of their policies so it's surreal to see them "criticize" the government they would have done anyways. Awkward times.
 

espher

Member
Like others are saying, this is the balanced and sensible approach.

No one was going to be happy.

Yep. Balanced and sensible, acknowledging we have an economy still dependent upon oil, implementing the two pipelines that are the 'best options' considering alternatives (and relatively low impact), and trashing the one that was garbage.

Which is exactly why it will piss off everyone.
 

Slavik81

Member
Line 3 is a replacement of an existing pipeline. They are removing an old pipe and putting in a brand new one that is slightly larger. It's pretty clearly a safety win. Trans-mountain is just adding a second pipe right beside the first.

These are some of the most innocuous new pipes I can imagine.
 

subrock

Member
Line 3 is a replacement of an existing pipeline. They are removing an old pipe and putting in a brand new one that is slightly larger. It's pretty clearly a safety win. Trans-mountain is just adding a second pipe right beside the first.

These are some of the most innocuous new pipes I can imagine.
You don't think doubling the capacity of pipelines has implications beyond simply the space around the lines themselves?
 
He made the best decision he could under the circumstances

Exactly this. I see everyone raging out across the internet and on Facebook, but really, what else could he do? He has to balance both the economy and the environment. He was basically in a no win situation. Either approve all the pipelines which will ultimately harm the environment but create thousands of jobs or approve none of them, which creates no jobs and simple continues to hurt the economy, especially in Alberta and B.C but does a make good steps toward reducing emissions. Neither one is entirely feasible on their own so he had to take the sensible approach and approve a few and decline another, which does what it can to reduce emissions but also create jobs.

I keep seeing everyone lose their minds about how this is such a terrible decision because of the damage it will do the environment, but don't consider that we have no real alternative energy plan that neither the past governments nor current have put in place that can create jobs at the moment. Basically, Trudeau had to pick between two types of poison.

He has to find a way compromise and this seems the best course action. I am fully for protecting the environment and for the government needing to do more, but you simply can't expect him to axe all these pipelines when our economy has been so closely tied to the product the pipelines pump and move. Maybe instead of immediately shitting all over the decision, people should start to propose ideas, in consultation with the government (who also needs to get their shit together and start thinking seriously about alternative green energy and quickly), about finding ways to push Canada's economy away from fossil fuels and towards providing green, renewable energy. That means significant investments in new or emerging technologies. That way, when the oil industry hits a wall, Canada can take that hit and keep on moving because they've grown away from that industry.
 

Nikodemos

Member
Hey, blame the Tories for not diversifying Canada's economy 6 years ago, not the guy trying to make the best of a shitty situation.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
I feel like I've seen enough reasonable discussion about this all over Canadian media, social or otherwise, that I'm not too worried about fallout. People generally don't mind pragmatism.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
some of you lefty-lefts are too hardlined in your positions; you gotta be realistic and be nuanced.

Northern Gateway, yeah that one was shit and Thank God that one is nixed.

But Kinder-Morgan already exists, so increasing its output is not major or drastic.

Yeah let's be realistic now, we're already fucked climate wise >__>
 
or you know, we could rip the bandaid off and move our economy away from fossil fuel exports.

We have a lot of fresh water....and ice (although that is melting) not much else to move towards. I would say lumber but I want them to stop cutting down trees.
 

djkimothy

Member
We have a lot of fresh water....and ice (although that is melting) not much else to move towards. I would say lumber but I want them to stop cutting down trees.
Oh man. the softwood lumber dispute is going to be a headache for the government with trump in office.
 

Sakura

Member
Why would Liberals not approve pipelines? That's not really something Liberals are known for. If people voted for Liberals thinking they wouldn't approve pipelines, well...
Hey, blame the Tories for not diversifying Canada's economy 6 years ago, not the guy trying to make the best of a shitty situation.
Diversify it into what?
 

a916

Member
Perhaps a more neutral source for the news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-cabinet-trudeau-pipeline-decisions-1.3872828



More details at the link.

Like others said, this was the most balanced approach of what the other 3 parties would have propose. Also, revenues gained from the project will go towards alternative fuels.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rachel-notley-christy-clark-trans-mountain-1.3874352

Sounds like made the most sensible decision... and like people have mentioned before, Trudeau can't just up and ban oil some some are asking... Canada's economy depends on it too much.

or you know, we could rip the bandaid off and move our economy away from fossil fuel exports.

You want our economy to hit subrock-bottom?
 
More incredibly stupid for the east coast to oppose energy east while they keep importing oil from foreign countries that give zero fucks about environmental damage nor climate change. Energy east should be been a no brainer, when the whole country should be using it own resources. I think the US under Trump will be self sustain in their own resources before Canada ever will.

The U.S. is already a next exporter of oil. Oil is imported for consumption because the spatialization of our infrastructure makes it more costly to solely consume the oil we produce here rather than import some oil.

Spending potentially trillions to build out infrastructure to ensure we only consume oil produced in the U.S. would be economically inefficient. Also, most of the imported oil we consume does not come from the Middle East, so security concerns should not be driving these decisions.
 
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