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[Mr. Giggles]

or you know, we could rip the bandaid off and move our economy away from fossil fuel exports.

To what?

I don't mean to be snarky but it takes time to move the economy towards other exports, outside of maple syrup and soft wood lumber oil is a major export

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Canada pls gib oil kthx
- USA

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

We should continue increasing the carbon tax instead of inefficiently deciding what to build and legislate on an arbitrary case-by-case basis, which is essentially a test of how well you can lobby.

 

[subrock]

To what?

I don't mean to be snarky but it takes time to move the economy towards other exports, outside of maple syrup and soft wood lumber oil is a major export

To be honest, I'm not sure what, but I do know two things:

1. We have gotten by in the past with far less oil exports than we have now
2. If we don't figure out something, the end of oil is coming whether we're ready or not.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

To be honest, I'm not sure what, but I do know two things:

1. We have gotten by in the past with far less oil exports than we have now
2. If we don't figure out something, the end of oil is coming whether we're ready or not.

Totally agree.

Personally technology as an export would be my choice but that doesn't look too likely- I mean when you consider Canadian tech you think RIM and Bombardier unfortunately RIM is swirling the drain and Bombardier is fucking inept at designing commercial aircraft.

 

[andythinkpad]

Canada wants to surpass US in pollution per capita.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Canada wants to surpass US in pollution per capita.

We already have, lol.

 

[a916]

We already have, lol.

I'm going to have to see receipts on this one. 2013 data has the US ahead of us.

 

[Nikodemos]

Diversify it into what?

Anything else. They had the money back then. Oil was nice and high in 2010-2011-2012.

But of course, I'm asking too much of the Tories, the party of "Fuck you, I've got mine."

 

[grumble]

To be honest, I'm not sure what, but I do know two things:

1. We have gotten by in the past with far less oil exports than we have now
2. If we don't figure out something, the end of oil is coming whether we're ready or not.

Then you need to think really hard about how to ensure that people have productive, high paying jobs. I don't see any advantage outside of natural resources, as the us steals any people or company that could be the next Apple or google.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Then you need to think really hard about how to ensure that people have productive, high paying jobs. I don't see any advantage outside of natural resources, as the us steals any people or company that could be the next Apple or google.

That is what grinds my gears, Canada has some good programs to help startups but then when successful they (startups) move operations to the US

 

[Nikodemos]

That is what grinds my gears, Canada has some good programs to help startups but then when successful they (startups) move operations to the US

Don't those programs have locative clauses? Such as the business needs to operate for x years in Canada before relocating, and needs to maintain x% of core operations in Canada to be eligible for funding.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Canada's economy is driven by commodities and natural resources. The demand for oil does not magically disappear if the pipelines aren't built and likely someone else will step up to provide it if Canada does not.

It would be incredibly stupid if the Canadian government decides to suddenly and needlessly kneecap itself economically in some futile symbolic gesture by rejecting the Kinder Morgan pipeline.

but you can use that logic for anything that is bad for the environment. So when do people actually start to get off of it?

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Don't those programs have locative clauses? Such as the business needs to operate for x years in Canada before relocating, and needs to maintain x% of core operations in Canada to be eligible for funding.

Yea but those clauses need to be updated to increase the amount of core operations in Canada as well as the time.

Startups use the time they need to be in Canada to fine tune their business model and as soon as they find the sweet spot and the time is up as per their clause they move to the US...

Hold on, lemme see if I can get some examples from Google.

Edit:

Dang, I couldn't find the site that had stats. Sorry, take what I said above as anecdotal talk

 

[grumble]

That is what grinds my gears, Canada has some good programs to help startups but then when successful they (startups) move operations to the US

Of course. The us is easier to scale.

What should happen is a massive overhaul of government efficiency and a critical eye towards every regulation on the books. I believe in smart regulation, but it should be as limited as possible to achieve your objectives and the process of complying with it and other government mandates like permitting, zoning, etc should be very quick and painless.

It can take years to open up a small business in Canada. It should take days. If you want us to crush the US, that is how to do it. Don't discourage value and wealth creation unless absolutely necessary. Government processes should be online, automated, simple, easy and painless. That is worth investing almost any amount of money - forget makework infrastructure, THAT is smart fiscal spending.

For startup investments, startups that receive subsidies from the Canadian government are required to give the government an equity stake. Then subsidize tons of startups and discourage foreign ownership. It is a good investment over time for taxpayers.

For education, take a critical eye towards the needs of the future and overhaul education. We are stuck in the 19th century. We should be preparing students for the 21st. Programming classes in elementary school, mandatory entrepreneurship classes in junior high and force them all to start a revenue generating business as a school project.

 

[gutter_trash]

That is what grinds my gears, Canada has some good programs to help startups but then when successful they (startups) move operations to the US

Canada is also a Federation of Provinces where whiny Provinces like Alberta and Quebec have to be coddled.

Alberta dug a whole being a mono-industry Province, we are stuck with their shortsightedness and need for coddling

 

[Holmes]

This and his electoral reform bullshit are pretty bad. I was right about him all along.

 

[pr0cs]

Good news and a good balance. People still get to work , companies get their product to market and the most visible pipeline wasn't approved to make the environmental people happy

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Of course. The us is easier to scale.

What should happen is a massive overhaul of government efficiency and a critical eye towards every regulation on the books. I believe in smart regulation, but it should be as limited as possible to achieve your objectives and the process of complying with it and other government mandates like permitting, zoning, etc should be very quick and painless.

It can take years to open up a small business in Canada. It should take days. If you want us to crush the US, that is how to do it. Don't discourage value and wealth creation unless absolutely necessary. Government processes should be online, automated, simple, easy and painless. That is worth investing almost any amount of money - forget makework infrastructure, THAT is smart fiscal spending.

For startup investments, startups that receive subsidies from the Canadian government are required to give the government an equity stake. Then subsidize tons of startups and discourage foreign ownership. It is a good investment over time for taxpayers.

For education, take a critical eye towards the needs of the future and overhaul education. We are stuck in the 19th century. We should be preparing students for the 21st. Programming classes in elementary school, mandatory entrepreneurship classes in junior high and force them all to start a revenue generating business as a school project.

Everything you said, especially the bolded I agree with

Canada is also a Federation of Provinces where whiny Provinces like Alberta and Quebec have to be coddled.

Alberta dug a whole being a mono-industry Province, we are stuck with their shortsightedness and need for coddling

True speak

 

[Buba Big Guns]

As already been stated, it's either the pipelines or delivery by train, and the train option is much worse in terms of GHG emissions than a pipeline.

Canada is investing very aggressively into green tech, but the demand for oil isn't going to disappear overnight.

 

[grumble]

Canada is also a Federation of Provinces where whiny Provinces like Alberta and Quebec have to be coddled.

Alberta dug a whole being a mono-industry Province, we are stuck with their shortsightedness and need for coddling

Alberta is bouncy, but that justifies the use of transfer payments. That mechanism integrates it into the broader economy to a degree to others benefit from Alberta during good times and can support them in bad times.

 

[TakeItSlowDude]

You can't finance a transition to green energy or implement a carbon tax without concessions. The pipelines are reasonable trade offs in a larger strategy that includes phasing out coal, implementing a carbon tax in Alberta, and introducing a hard cap on Alberta's oil sands emissions and various other regulations. The new pipelines enable oil producers to offset the cost of a carbon tax by reducing the discounts incurred by pipeline constraints.

 

[bremon]

Canada is also a Federation of Provinces where whiny Provinces like Alberta and Quebec have to be coddled.

Alberta dug a whole being a mono-industry Province, we are stuck with their shortsightedness and need for coddling

Please expand on your opinion gutter, I would love to hear more. Seems to me that what's good for one provinces coffers is good for most provinces coffers, and it seems to me there aren't many provinces that are terribly diverse economically. Does Manitoba have some fountain of revenue beyond agriculture, hydro electricity, or maybe some forestry? Does Saskatchewan beyond agriculture and resources? What does BC have going on; resources? Let me know what the rest of Canada is doing so well that we Albertans can be enlightened and put these revelations to work for the benefit of all Canadians.

 

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

Alberta dug a whole being a mono-industry Province, we are stuck with their shortsightedness and need for coddling

A province (and SK) whose boom essentially drove the entire economy of the country and helped fund failing provinces (like Ont's Manufacturing sector) through transfer payments. You can't pivot overnight to a completely different sector and expect it to work. It is going to take decades to build up the knowledge and skill-set to be able to pivot to clean energy.

I think we should push ahead full steam on trying to lead the way in that field, but stifling oil production before you get there is just idiotic. Let them expand the existing pipelines they have now to do more in the same space, and push for that revenue to help promote clean energy.

 

[bremon]

Many people seem to forget that we still need to pay for the groundwork of whatever industries we turn to for diversification and oil-money-replacement. Or wait, just shut everything down; we can pay for the rest with hopes and dreams.

 

[gutter_trash]

A province (and SK) whose boom essentially drove the entire economy of the country and helped fund failing provinces (like Ont's Manufacturing sector) through transfer payments. You can't pivot overnight to a completely different sector and expect it to work. It is going to take decades to build up the knowledge and skill-set to be able to pivot to clean energy.

I think we should push ahead full steam on trying to lead the way in that field, but stifling oil production before you get there is just idiotic. Let them expand the existing pipelines they have now to do more in the same space, and push for that revenue to help promote clean energy.

diversifying doesn't mean you give up one industry for another, it means you develop multiple alternatives in parallel. A contingency plan.

I am for a middle ground approach and I agree with the current Liberal government.

But Albertans are whiners; Quebec has calmed down in the last 5 years. Alberta now takes the prize of complaining babies, Saskatchewan comes now in 2nd

 

[TemplaerDude]

I love these pie-in-the-sky ideas of bankrupting the economy and just shrugging shoulders when asked what else we should be doing instead. You're giving the big ol' fuck you to a bunch of people and just leaving them hanging in the wind.

I don't like the pipelines but too many people's livelihoods depend on them. Sitting there saying "no" is easy to do.

 

[bremon]

diversifying doesn't mean you give up one industry for another, it means you develop multiple alternatives in parallel. A contingency plan.

I am for a middle ground approach and I agree with the current Liberal government.

But Albertans are whiners; Quebec has calmed down in the last 5 years. Alberta now takes the prize of complaining babies, Saskatchewan comes now in 2nd

What do you feel are realistic avenues to pursue with regards to diversifying the economy? Keep in mind, you've reminded me that "whining" doesn't generate revenue, and I'll remind you that neither do shoulder shrugs and "I dunno"s.