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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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I'll admit I was pretty surprised to see that Bill 6 is just some farm safety bill after seeing all the drama over it.
In other news, the government is increasing the minimum down-payment on houses over $500,000.
http://business.financialpost.com/p...-blistering-toronto-vancouver-housing-markets
Interestingly, the way it'll work is that if a house costs more than $500,000 then the minimum down-payment is $25,000 + 10% of the amount over $500,000.
LOL, The Beaverton is hilarious: http://www.thebeaverton.com/nationa...te-into-canadian-culture-already-hate-toronto
We've been in a housing bubble for a good long while and it makes sense that any new government is going to do all they can to ensure that when it pops, the damage isn't that bad and they're not the ones that take the blame. You can be sure that the Conservatives would blame the Liberal's "risky economic policies" for it. It's as much a political decision as anything.
At this point the horse is already out of the barn though and this move doesn't really feel like enough to have any real impact on anything.
The Alberta Energy Minister has been dealing with threats to because of that Bill.I think that Bill did not justify the reaction it got.
gutter_trash
Banned
If they were serious about solving Canada's housing market problem, they should tackle non-citizen buyers and foreign investors who buy up all the shit for speculation where you see thousands of vacant condos sitting there with no one living in them
fuck foreign speculators non-citizens. Imposing a quota of 1 residential property per foreigner non-citizen would be a good start.
Wouldn't an appropriate property tax on these properties be a better solution though?
Mmmm xenophobia, isn't it fun?
It strikes me as really unlikely 'foreign speculators' aren't reasonably likely to rent out their condos for something near market rate, or they're pretty shitty at making money.
And what about 'local speculators'? Are they all cool dudes who are worthy of keeping a unit off the market?
It strikes me as really unlikely 'foreign speculators' aren't reasonably likely to rent out their condos for something near market rate, or they're pretty shitty at making money.
And what about 'local speculators'? Are they all cool dudes who are worthy of keeping a unit off the market?
valkillmore
Member
And sadly this won't get the exposure it should. People in this country and in others need to see this. In my opinion it's far more important to the well being of others than constant cycle of terror threats in the news. Yeah, a rerrorist attack is a threat, but not as significant as lack of empathy for others. Good on him. And I'm kot a cynic like many out there who say he's doing it for publicity. I believe he is genuinely a kind soul.
I hope it's for genuine reasons. I'm 100% positive our previous PM wouldn't have done the same for any reason OTHER than photo-op. Probably would have had him removed.
gutter_trash
Banned
uh no, no, no, no, no
that is a Marxist Leninist Communist idea, so no
if the goal is reestablish affordable prices and affordable housing; a property tax hike would hurt to lower income earner the most.
It's not because you don't own that you won't see a rent hike. Property Tax hikes = Rent hikes too
seriously?
Local speculators are a much bigger problem than foreign speculators, which likely only have a measurable impact in Vancouver.
The only thing that will create affordable housing in overheated markets such as Vancouver/Toronto is a combination of:
1. Complete elimination of single family housing in favour of higher density forms (eg. townhouse, rowhouse, and denser). Essentially just dramatically increasing supply of family oriented housing.
2. The government actively, and constantly building government owned subsidized housing in order to meet a set vacancy rate. This is what they do in Vienna, Hong Kong and many other places.
At the moment I can't see any Canadian government touching the above two ideas with a 10 foot pole.
The only thing that will create affordable housing in overheated markets such as Vancouver/Toronto is a combination of:
1. Complete elimination of single family housing in favour of higher density forms (eg. townhouse, rowhouse, and denser). Essentially just dramatically increasing supply of family oriented housing.
2. The government actively, and constantly building government owned subsidized housing in order to meet a set vacancy rate. This is what they do in Vienna, Hong Kong and many other places.
At the moment I can't see any Canadian government touching the above two ideas with a 10 foot pole.
You want to end a post where you call property taxes a "Marxist Leninist Communist" idea with a sarcastic "seriously"? Seriously?
Seriously. You're as bad as any Conservative Harper loving redneck I've ever met at times.
gutter_trash
Banned
property taxes hurt lower income families; it's a fact.
Property owner hike rents when municipal taxes get hiked, it's a fact
property tax is one of the most regressive tax there is
This is very true, actually. Hikes in property taxes work in theory, but in reality hurt populations that have fixed or stagnant incomes, such as seniors and/or low income citizens.
What I was getting at though was more of a progressive/tiered property tax system much like how income tax is marginal.
So to you, regressive taxes are "Marxist Leninist Communist ideas"?
Because lol. Your political ideology is such a jumbled mess.
Not really. BC, Ontario, Quebec and other provinces have rent controls. Unless the property owner evicts the tenant for renovations, they cannot just jack the rent to whatever they want.
gutter_trash
Banned
My ideology is don't make life harder for those trying to get by.
property tax hikes are the laziest methods for a municipality to get money in their coffers.
Look at the mess in Montreal where borough mayors can hike taxes higher than their neighboring boroughs.
Montreal is today one of the slowest cities in Canada in terms of growth.
1) regressive methods of obtaining revenue
2) inept and bloated city hall
3) corruption
4) lack of creativity and innovation on how to increase revenu outside of tax hikes
In truth, I don't think it makes sense to have property taxes anymore. They were instituted as a crude income tax, back before governments actually taxed income, and when most people in agrarian societies lived where they worked and derived income from the land. Now we do tax income, and most people don't actually earn anything from the land they own (why are we taxing retirees purely for continuing to live in the house they bought, for instance?).
It will never change, though, because property taxes are so built into how tax power is distributed.
It will never change, though, because property taxes are so built into how tax power is distributed.
They should get rid of property taxes purely because everyone bitches about them, and virtually no know knows how they actually work. Create something less counter-intuitive so the city doesn't have to fight tooth and nail to increase their revenue just to match inflation.
I think it'd be good to simplify the tax system in general, so that we can spend less money and time doing tax paperwork and reduce spending on the bureaucracy. I'm thinking something along the lines of only having income, sales and a carbon tax. (Income here including capital gains and investment income). So we'd get rid of property taxes and corporate taxes.
And along the same line of thought of reducing spending on bureaucracy, I'd like to see a lot of our welfare systems rolled into the tax system as tax credits. It'd hopefully be more efficient than having entire separate bureaucracies for them.
And along the same line of thought of reducing spending on bureaucracy, I'd like to see a lot of our welfare systems rolled into the tax system as tax credits. It'd hopefully be more efficient than having entire separate bureaucracies for them.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Property taxes make sense when a property could potentially be used for more useful means to the city. For example, a single-family house occupying space in a residential area where most houses are two to three stories high and where multiple families can live, that should be highly taxed. If you have multiple apartments in one building in such a residential area, then tax it less, but put in measures to prevent apartment blocks if that doesn't fit with the type of residential area it is. Basically, taxes in general should be used to influence development, habits, rout out inefficiencies (cars or houses that pollute more), etc.
Show me some sourced numbers before parroting this yellow-peril line.
Fact is, you won't find any numbers demonstrating that foreign "speculators" are contributing in any significant way to Canada's housing bubble. Funny to hear you spout xenophobic rhetoric, but not surprising considering you are aligned politically with conservatives, as the electoral compass you posted once demonstrated. The only reason you are for the PLC is because you think everyone else is a separatist.
Show me some sourced numbers before parroting this yellow-peril line.
Fact is, you won't find any numbers demonstrating that foreign "speculators" are contributing in any significant way to Canada's housing bubble. Funny to hear you spout xenophobic rhetoric, but not surprising considering you are aligned politically with conservatives, as the electoral compass you posted once demonstrated. The only reason you are for the PLC is because you think everyone else is a separatist.
gutter_trash
Banned
gasoline tax = good, because it taxes usage of consumption. If you minimize your consumption, you get taxed less
property tax = bad. It hurts EVERYONE. rich,middle and poor. It is bad for all of them.
school tax = bad. Because school boards have gone rampaging wasting money on thing not related to schools. School board gone, I wouldn't care
income tax = needs modernization. The perfect system would be a real "gradual" system. Currently you got brackets that if you step over the line, you may end up worse.
property tax = bad. It hurts EVERYONE. rich,middle and poor. It is bad for all of them.
school tax = bad. Because school boards have gone rampaging wasting money on thing not related to schools. School board gone, I wouldn't care
income tax = needs modernization. The perfect system would be a real "gradual" system. Currently you got brackets that if you step over the line, you may end up worse.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
gutter_trash
Banned
I don't really consider healthcare and education to be part of welfare, no?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
It isn't a flat rate! It's gradual!
So there, another one complaining about how taxes work who doesn't understand its most basic principle. You're also wrong about "foreign speculators".
Nope.
gutter_trash
Banned
We currently have steps, not a curve
https://simpletax.ca/calculator
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html
And also you don't pay taxes on the first ~$10,000 you earn, dependent partly on your province.
It's even funnier because he posted in that thread.
It is impossible to end up worse by entering the next bracket.
Please read through that thread that was linked to.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Just to clarify what's going on here
in the top two graphs, we have "how marginal tax rates actually work".
in the bottom two graphs, we have "how the average person understands marginal tax rates -- i.e. as if they were effective tax rates"
in the top two graphs, we have "how marginal tax rates actually work".
in the bottom two graphs, we have "how the average person understands marginal tax rates -- i.e. as if they were effective tax rates"
They are part of the welfare state. To some extent, it's a sign of how far we've come that people no longer consider these controversial welfare projects, but they are and were a significant project of the labour movement in the first half of the 20th century. When they were introduced they were called "Marxist Leninist Communist" ideas (and more rightly so than property tax, which I'm still laughing at).
This is mathematically impossible.
Y'know, the in-congruence of taxes on owned property being a Communist thing just struck me.
There might be a great opportunity for a party to have a big awareness campaign about progressive taxation and get much of the political benefit of lowering taxes without actually lowering them.
The problem recently has been that the way people have been "lowering taxes without lowering them" has been through tax expenditures, something that actually does not lead to lower taxes on aggregate. Giving someone a credit to send their son to hockey camp doesn't lead to poorer people disproportionally benefitting, but actually leads to richer voters simply saving more money. Other than credits that clearly benefit the plebs, I think most tax expenditures in niche programs should be removed.
gutter_trash
Banned
hahahahahahahahaha oh shit I spit out my Pepsi. oh
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I actually had to look up je m'en fous :lol
While I don't necessarily agree with gutter on his other points, I do agree that property taxes are pretty bad in the grand scheme of things. It is, unfortunately, one of the only ways Canadian municipalities can raise money aside from the pittance that is the gas tax.
While I don't necessarily agree with gutter on his other points, I do agree that property taxes are pretty bad in the grand scheme of things. It is, unfortunately, one of the only ways Canadian municipalities can raise money aside from the pittance that is the gas tax.
gutter_trash
Banned
nice to see a Centrist on this board who agrees with me on taxation.
the grafs posted are wrong though, our tax brackets are Steps not curve.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
nice to see a Centrist on this board who agrees with me on taxation.
the grafs posted are wrong though, our tax brackets are Steps not curve.
The brackets are steps but the effective tax rate on all your income as income increases is a piece-wise linear approximation of a curve. IE, it's good enough.
I don't think anyone has defended property taxes. Hell, go back a few pages and find me ranting about municipal tax powers. What I find hilarious is gutter's bizarre notion that regressive taxes are communist.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
nice to see a Centrist on this board who agrees with me on taxation.
the grafs posted are wrong though, our tax brackets are Steps not curve.
Did you even look at the name of the image you posted
Canadian-Marginal-Tax-Rates-2014-Manitoba.png
Canadian-Marginal-Tax-Rates-2014-Manitoba.png
Canadian-Marginal-Tax-Rates-2014-Manitoba.png
*zoom enhance*
What do you think a "marginal" tax rate is? It's not your tax rate. You do understand this, right?
The graph I posted is exactly the Canadian federal tax rates. The graph I posted in the second row are what you think they are. You are wrong. You do not understand the word marginal. Because you don't understand it, you think it means something else. Notice how the second row has steps and the first row doesn't. Have you ever heard of the word "marginal"?
It means you only pay the higher rate on the money you earn after the bottom of the higher bracket. If you go from making $44,701 (top of the first bracket) to $44,702 (bottom of the second bracket), you don't pay 22% tax on all your income, you pay 22% tax on $1 of your income and 15% tax on the rest.
This is not a separatist trick. This is really what the word marginal means. Have you ever filed taxes? If not you probably should. You can go to jail if you don't. I'm serious. It's actually against the law. It's not even a Harper law, that's been on the books for a while. I know integral/summation calculus is hard so it may be difficult to tell the difference between a line and the area under the line, but taxes are a basic civic duty. You're an adult.
nice to see a Centrist on this board who agrees with me on taxation.
the grafs posted are wrong though, our tax brackets are Steps not curve.
Does the "average" line represent a sort of averaged tax rate? 'Cause it looks a little curvy to me.
LordAmused
Member
It most likely does.
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