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[Evil Calvin]

'Cite performance usage and sales for usage' of game key cards.

Well......usage of GKC will definitely affect sales.....because many won't buy them...like myself.

XSX it is then.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

Good food for thought. I appreciate their perspective.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Really don't see the big fuss. Just got my first, downloaded the game and good to go. Not like you always have to be online or anything.

Large mandatory install sizes. NS2 only has 256 gb storage unless you fork out $$$$$ for another 256gb card. Even a lot more to add a 512gb card. That will fill up quick.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Large mandatory install sizes. NS2 only has 256 gb storage unless you fork out $$$$$ for another 256gb card. Even a lot more to add a 512gb card. That will fill up quick.

There aren't even 4TB memory cards.

 

[Evil Calvin]

You don't understand! Nintendo shouldn't have made a handheld that has every Nintendo game playable fully on cartridges while most third party games are GKC that they can sell after they've played it. They should have just made an all digital handheld like Xbox and PS is doing instead. /s

They only need to sell smaller, cheaper phyical cards. Right now I believe they only sell a 32gb card, and that's way to large and expensive for indie game developers. Make a 16, 32, 48 and 64. It's just greedy Nintendo.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

They only need to sell smaller, cheaper phyical cards. Right now I believe they only sell a 32gb card, and that's way to large and expensive for indie game developers. Make a 16, 32, 48 and 64. It's just greedy Nintendo.

If the game is small, it's not as big of a deal to install it.

 

[Scrawnton]

Still don't understand why BDFF Remastered needed a Key Card.

Because more people would buy it at $40 even with the people butt hurt about GKC than people would've bought it at $60 if it was a full cart.

 

[Hyet]

There are use cases for Game Key Cards when the game needs to load in faster than the cardtriged allows.

But creating key cards and giving the option for publishers to use it in any case they want is a mistake because they'll end up using them even in games tha also come out on the OG Switch (and square doesn't even upgrade if you buy those). Ultimately I think the blame lies with Nintendo for the following reasons:

• Having only 2 options: 1) the most expensive card or 2) the Game Key Card creates an incentive for publishers to only use Key Cards. They should have a wider range of prices and cards for publishers to be able to sell real physical games and make money.
• The reason the only real card they offer is expensive it's not only because it requires more hardware than a BR Disc. It's because Nintendo takes royalties from it. They aren't willing to take a cut into the royalties in order to incentivice the distribution of games in real physical format.
• No case-by-case limitation. If Nintendo only let Game Key Cards be used in scenarios were loading was an issue it would really decrease the number of Game Key Cards aviable, but this is only feasable if the previous 2 points are implemented. If not Switch 2 wouldn't get most of the games it's getting now or become a primarly digital console in the best case scenario.
• Fucking ugly, cases. Case design for Game Key cards with reduced art space and ugly bottom label with extremely long yet unclarifiying text makes game key cards worse to collect and clearly marks them as a second rate, not dispay worthy items. They have to move the label to the red part of the front of the box and integrate it with it in a more aestethic way.

Regarding what the Capcom and S-E devs say... it's OK if they consider it a sales strategy but for it to be so they have to be sales. The format has been rejected by the public and they both perfectly know why, so at this point in time is a no-sales strategy. Either that or they think they can force this down to the consumer. Don't think that's gonna happen.

What I would do if I was SE was just release the game on Switch 1, no retail Switch 2 version whatsoever then sell the upgrade on the eShop separately for 10-15 bucks. They would 100% make more money this way since most of them come out on Switch 1 anyway and that seems to have good enough margins. They would get 10-15 from witch Nintendo takes 30%. So they would sell to the NS2 users at the regular margin and then get 6 or 10 bucks on top. With Key Cards they won't get shit because nobody is buying.

Capcom and other big S-E games like FFVIIR don't have any other choicebut to be Game Key Cards but, Capcom has plenty of games with no possible explanation like Kunitsu-gami or SF6. They should reprint them the install base is bigger and there are more card sizes aviable.

 

[A.Romero]

Let's not fool ourselves. They do it because they can. Fans will get over it regardless, common folk will not know about it until after purchase and it will be a problem for their kids so whatever.

 

[Deerock71]

Fuggin' $40 for integrade should fly off of shelves. I'll be doing my part.

 

[RoadHazard]

Nintendo doesn't have "massive load times", you mean read speeds, which still aren't slow on PS5, Switch 2, or Xbox at all.

This is about as stupid and uninformed as saying floppy drives are superior technology because they load faster than Blu-rays.

They are in fact slow on Switch 2 compared to PS5 and XSX, and even slower when reading directly from a game card. Faster than optical media of course, but still pretty slow.

 

[Minsc]

I always just see this kind of news as well, it's the same way on PS5 or PC, neither of which I buy physical, pretty much stopped collecting physical copies when they stopped working off discs.

 

[Nvzman]

They are in fact slow on Switch 2 compared to PS5 and XSX, and even slower when reading directly from a game card. Faster than optical media of course, but still pretty slow.

That still isn't what "massive load times" means. Its still good enough, just because PS5/XSX have NVMEs doesn't mean its not good enough. Its still faster than SATA SSDs.

 

[deriks]

Insert obligatory "because it's Nintendo" response.

In this case, Capcom itself said that it's on them and not Nintendo

 

[Generic]

People be like "you should put Tetris on a $17 cartridge" when a blu-ray disc is $0,50.

Nintendo fucked up third party devs BIG time.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

People be like "you should put Tetris on a $17 cartridge" when a blu-ray disc is $0,50.

Nintendo fucked up third party devs BIG time.

Publishers want Key Cards.

It's the Collector Whores that are mad.

 

[Minsc]

Publishers want Key Cards.

It's the Collector Whores that are mad.

How do collector whores reason out all their PS5 discs don't work either?

Do they all just not have the internet, so they're incapable of downloading anything?

 

[StereoVsn]

The option to being able to install data from a slower cart would have been a good alternative and would allow folks to do their offline (still requiring card to play).

Of course we can't have too many options with Papa Nintendo here.

 

[StereoVsn]

How do collector whores reason out all their PS5 discs don't work either?

Do they all just not have the internet, so they're incapable of downloading anything?

This is patently false though. Most games on PS5 can be played without additional patches.

 

[RoadHazard]

How do collector whores reason out all their PS5 discs don't work either?

Do they all just not have the internet, so they're incapable of downloading anything?

Why would their PS5 discs not work?

 

[ReBurn]

Turns out there's absolutely no reason to abandon physical. It's just barely selling compared to digital, more expensive to produce, and has inferior streaming speeds. No big deal.

Seeing as the truth requires that I believe it in order to be true, I hereby declare that this is untrue because I don't believe it. The truth must be because Nintendo and devs only care about money and control and if a game like cyberpunk that was designed to stream from a PS4 HDD can run from a Switch 2 cart then any game can run from a Switch 2 cart.

 

[RoboFu]

As a collector, that format has no value, so why should I pay for something that is really smoke?

Then don't buy it, don't buy digital Playstation / Xbox / Steam games either. IDK what to tell you. Everything is going digital and this so far has been the only way to go digital and sell your games.

 

[Minsc]

Why would their PS5 discs not work?

Because games cannot run off the disc?

Something like Rebirth ~100GB would take like an hour to install, it's faster to download?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Then don't buy it, don't buy digital Playstation / Xbox / Steam games either. IDK what to tell you. Everything is going digital and this so far has been the only way to go digital and sell your games.

That's exactly what I do—I don't support this format, no matter how highly anticipated a game is.

I always go for physical products, the same with Playstation.

 

[memoryman3]

'Cite performance usage and sales for usage' of game key cards.

Well......usage of GKC will definitely affect sales.....because many won't buy them...like myself.

XSX it is then.

FF is digital only on Xbox…in fact, many games are opting to launch digital only on Xbox for the same reasons - profit margins.

PS5 will be remembered as the last truly great platform for physical games.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

No one is forcing anyone to do/buy anything. Don't buy the games you don't like be it their political message, their content, or their delivered form factor.

Sometimes lies are not lies...they are explanations folks don't want to hear.

Cheaper, faster, and enables a better product to be produced from 3rd party developers.
I would think that the key feature in this list (at least from a third party publishers perspective) is cheaper.

 

[Karim]

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Director Naoki Hamaguchi:




Requiem's director Koshi Nakanishi:

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Evil Calvin]

If the game is small, it's not as big of a deal to install it.

True....unless you want a physical copy. But really this only affects AA titles. and smaller AAA titles.

 

[blacktout]

He's not. The cartidges have slow read speeds so developers suggest installing to internal memory especially with games that stream a lot of data.



This was kind of the case for Switch 1 too but the difference wasn't as large. ~14% vs 50%.

Unfortunately there is limited internal memory on the switch 2 too compared to game size so people don't like the fact that they need to install to get these shorter load times.

I know all of this, but it's still out of step with what he actually said. He said "massive load times." The Switch 2 cartridges are faster than optical discs and faster than Switch 1 cartridges. They're just slower than the system's internal storage and microSD Express. Whether you are playing a game off the SSD or a cartridge, load times are way down vs. the OG Switch.

They were talking about Nintendo carts in the 90s and comparing it to today. Not having massive loading times on the N64 was a selling point in comparison to a ps1, they're commenting on how the situation has reversed. Cheers

The situation hasn't reversed, though? The Switch 2 cartridges are faster than discs, and they're also way more expensive, which is pretty comparable to the N64 era. The difference is that a) internal storage is way faster and less expensive than it was in the 90s and b) the Switch 2 doesn't use true cartridges like the N64, which contained their own components and weren't just flash memory, but making true cartridges for modern games would totally impractical and hilariously expensive.

 

[nial]

I always just see this kind of news as well, it's the same way on PS5 or PC, neither of which I buy physical, pretty much stopped collecting physical copies when they stopped working off discs.

How do collector whores reason out all their PS5 discs don't work either?

Do they all just not have the internet, so they're incapable of downloading anything?

Because games cannot run off the disc?

Something like Rebirth ~100GB would take like an hour to install, it's faster to download?

PS5 discs (usually) have the entire game data and installs do not require internet connection.

 

[Minsc]

PS5 discs (usually) have the entire game data and installs do not require internet connection.

That is true, but I don't see one as different, other than it being slower to install the game off the disc.

Both do not run directly off the media you purchase like a Switch 1 game or PS2 game. Both need to be installed to the system's internal storage, which takes time.

AFAIK the Switch 2's method does not need you to have the cartridge in the system to play the game though, so I suppose that is better. You can install 10 different cartridges and play them all without needing to constantly insert different discs.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

How do collector whores reason out all their PS5 discs don't work either?

Do they all just not have the internet, so they're incapable of downloading anything?

Some weird belief that people will pay big bux for games 20 years from now. Esp without access to the patches.

While you could in theory pay the version that's on the BD, nobody is going to do that.

 

[nial]

That is true, but I don't see one as different, other than it being slower to install the game off the disc.

I already explained the clear enough differences, and no, it's not slower to install the games off discs compared to GKC downloads.
Not to mention that PS5 consoles will have from 3.2x to 7.8x the internal storage as the Switch 2.

AFAIK the Switch 2's method does not need you to have the cartridge in the system to play the game though, so I suppose that is better. You can install 10 different cartridges and play them all without needing to constantly insert different discs.

Yes, it does. You will introduce a Street Fighter VI GKC, download all the data, and still need to keep the card on the console every time you want to play the game.
That applies to every single GKC title.

 

[Signalis]

Why are you posting your own twitter account? Farming for likes?

 

[Signalis]

How do collector whores reason out all their PS5 discs don't work either?

Do they all just not have the internet, so they're incapable of downloading anything?

You have no idea what you're talking about

DoesItPlay? - Home

Working to ensure games remain accessible now and always!

www.doesitplay.org

 

[Minsc]

I already explained the clear enough differences, and no, it's not slower to install the games off discs compared to GKC downloads.

Yes, it does. You will introduce a Street Fighter VI GKC, download all the data, and still need to keep the card on the console every time you want to play the game. That applies to every single GKC title.

Oh I see, I thought the GKC process allowed you to continue playing the game without the card in the console. I figured there was some encrypted code in the data so you could continue to use it as long as it hadn't been installed on another system, like how it works with digital games, but I guess not. Oh well! Even more like PS5 discs than I thought.

 

[nial]

Oh I see, I thought the GKC process allowed you to continue playing the game without the card in the console. I figured there was some encrypted code in the data so you could continue to use it as long as it hadn't been installed on another system, like how it works with digital games, but I guess not. Oh well! Even more like PS5 discs than I thought.

It's inherently worse in every single aspect.

 

[Minsc]

You have no idea what you're talking about

DoesItPlay? - Home

Working to ensure games remain accessible now and always!

www.doesitplay.org

So basically you want to make sure games don't need to the internet to run, in case they stop working? Do you have any examples of that?

So basically you are arguing everyone who uses STEAM is a fool?

 

[Minsc]

It's inherently worse in every single aspect.

I'd argue both are inherently worse to digital, in every way that matters to me, that is convenience.

The idea of needing to swap discs to play a game is something I abandoned decades ago, and would never want to return to.

But I don't see them as different in any significant way, and have yet to see anyone give me a reason why they would be, other than arguing I need internet, which is actually something I'd want in the first place, because it is faster than the disc read speeds.

 

[nial]

I'd argue both are inherently worse to digital, in every way that matters to me, that is convenience.

The idea of needing to swap discs to play a game is something I abandoned decades ago, and would never want to return to.

But I don't see them as different in any significant way, and have yet to see anyone give me a reason why they would be, other than arguing I need internet, which is actually something I'd want in the first place, because it is faster than the disc read speeds.

The fact that one relies on direct server connection, on a console with a whooping 256GB?

 

[Kataploom]

People would stop complaining if the games are not downloaded from the server but locally in the cart, I guess

 

[rodrigolfp]

It's inherently worse in every single aspect.

Cards are more durable/harder to get "scratches".

 

[Dr Bass]

Is there any reason as to why Nintendo couldn't allow optional game installs like it was done on PS3?

That would solve all the problems but it's too radical idea.

Sony and developers solved "slow storage" problem in 2006. With what you can also have fully functional game without the need of any internet connection.

Well it wouldn't be an optional install at that point would it? And if that's the case why are you (i.e. the publisher) spending money on a 64gb cart?

It's also 20 years later than ps3. Who doesn't have internet at this point? It's a basic utility.

I don't get the problem. Oh no, a download.

 

[nial]

Well it wouldn't be an optional install at that point would it? And if that's the case why are you (i.e. the publisher) spending money on a 64gb cart?

It's also 20 years later than ps3. Who doesn't have internet at this point? It's a basic utility.

I don't get the problem. Oh no, a download.

The entire conversation around game installs is on the basis of Nintendo allowing the same slower cards used on Switch 1 for Switch 2 games.

 

[Minsc]

The fact that one relies on direct server connection, on a console with a whooping 256GB?

Not sure what the server has to do with it. The console's storage is the same 256GB whether it's sourcing from the disc/cartridge or the server. You can have 20 50GB games on cartridge, or on the server. Either way you can still only fit 4-5 on the Switch 2, without additional storage.

Relaying on a direct server connection to install a game is something that has not been an issue for decades. Even my 3DS is full to the brim of ~100+ downloaded games.

It's actually way easier to manage the space digitally, than with cartridges.

If you have five 50GB games on the device and want to switch to 5 new 50GB ones, digitally you can do that in a minute and be done. Physically from the cartridge you have to manage each install separately, returning to the device 5 times, ~15 minutes apart or more, switch cartridges each time.

 

[Baemono]

 

[nial]

Not sure what the server has to do with it.

For game downloads?

The console's storage is the same 256GB whether it's sourcing from the disc/cartridge or the server. You can have 20 50GB games on cartridge, or on the server. Either way you can still only fit 4-5 on the Switch 2, without additional storage.

We know, it's the 256GB itself that is the problem.

It's actually way easier to manage the space digitally, than with cartridges.

If you have five 50GB games on the device and want to switch to 5 new 50GB ones, digitally you can do that in a minute and be done. Physically from the cartridge you have to manage each install separately, returning to the device 5 times, ~15 minutes apart or more, switch cartridges each time.

None of this applies to GKCs, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. It just means that they are a worse alternative to 1. digital titles, 2. 64GB cards titles, and 3. hypothetical smaller/slower card releases with full data stored and (offline) installation required.

 

[Danjin44]

We know, it's the 256GB itself that is the problem.

I would say in PS5 is way worse because PS5 games take waaaaaay more space. I barely had delete games on my Switch/Switch 2 mean while I had consistently deleted games from PS5.

 

[nial]

I would say in PS5 is way worse because PS5 games take waaaaaay more space. I barely had delete games on my Switch/Switch 2 mean while I had consistently deleted games from PS5.

Of course it's not a problem on Switch 1 when it literally does not have the same GKC issue that is affecting the Switch 2. How many GKC games do you have on Switch 2?