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[Fularu]

So uh.. Hamas, steven and co are filth, yet I supposed Israel's operations of the last 3 days, killing more than 60 palestinians, most of wich are kids or old people is righteous and all?

ISrael is indeed populated by so-called religious people, with a so-called socity that will crumble on itself if not for the constant fear of annihilation (and that's probably why their different governments kept them in that state of perpetual fear, so that their society wich is as heteroclyt as it can be, does not turn upon itself).

They could have gained peace as early as in 1955 when all the arabic countries proposed a global peace with them, again the proposal was made before the Yom Kippur war in 1973, and again before the seige of Beirut in 1982

If the operations perpetrated by the armed wing of the Hamas movement are condemnable, they are still acts of resistance for me, because they are opposing as much as they can a brutal, humanless and cruel occupation of their land, a total privation of their most basic rights in the most brutal way.

Often times extreme situations call for extreme acts and that is what is happening in palestina. You never ever ask the resistance to drop the weapons before going to the negociation table, you have to make the occupant understand that occupation comes with a price, a heavy one that one day or another, they won't be willing to pay anymore.

Give the palestinians their freedom, their human rights, the Wast BAnk and Gaza, and the Hamas movement will crumble and never rise again.

Oh and btw, I'm christian so don't start that muslim non sense on me

 

[Ripclawe]

So uh.. Hamas, steven and co are filth, yet I supposed Israel's operations of the last 3 days, killing more than 60 palestinians, most of wich are kids or old people is righteous and all?

Hamas shoots rockets, killing 2 kids, Israel responds. Now considering brave Hamas are hiding out among civilians, you are going to get innocents killed. There is no getting around it.

They could have gained peace as early as in 1955 when all the arabic countries proposed a global peace with them, again the proposal was made before the Yom Kippur war in 1973, and again before the seige of Beirut in 1982

1955 = no
1973 = no
1982 = no way in hell.

Give the palestinians their freedom, their human rights, the Wast BAnk and Gaza, and the Hamas movement will crumble and never rise again.

Considering Hamas is still has a political wing and moving in on Arafat to the point he has started to work with them. I seriously doubt that pipe dream. Hamas's goal is the destruction of Israel, not peace. Palestinians would have had most of what they wanted a long time ago if not for lousy leadership and stupid moves they have pulled over the last 40 plus years.

 

[Fularu]

Hamas shoots rockets, killing 2 kids, Israel responds. Now considering brave Hamas are hiding out among civilians, you are going to get innocents killed. There is no getting around it.




1955 = no
1973 = no
1982 = no way in hell.



Considering Hamas is still has a political wing and moving in on Arafat to the point he has started to work with them. I seriously doubt that pipe dream. Hamas's goal is the destruction of Israel, not peace. Palestinians would have had most of what they wanted a long time ago if not for lousy leadership and stupid moves they have pulled over the last 40 plus years.

That's utter bullshit from begining toi end

Read Ben Gourion's memories and you may be removing those No on 1955 and 1973

In 1972 Kinsinger even said "I don't want to hear what Saddat has to say about the ISraeli-Arabic conflict, I don't know him, I don't know how he thinks so I won't hear what he has to say"

Saddat, along with Hussein (Jordania) and Assad (Syria) were trying to make contact with Meir's government in order to start peace talks, but the Israelians refused, and so did Kisinger. Leading to the Yum Kippur war

As for 1955, it was a secret dealing between ben gourion and the syrian president at that time (forgot his name) and the proposal was dead serious (it was before Nasser's rise in the middle east) but it never came through because of the unrealistic demands of the ISraeli prime minister

You'd also want to check on Hamas's popularity, during the peace process, Hamas, which was almost as powerfull, if not more than Arafat's Fatah during the first Intifadah, lost most, if not all, of its popular support. What gained it back were Israel's intensification of the settelment program while seeing the PA beeing more and more corrupted and the slow intoxification of their lives, with the arbitral multiplication of the check points, of the detournement ways, af the closing of University,m schools, of the delaying of hopitals or the closing of the green line, preventing hundred of thousands of palestinian workers to go to their job and earn a living for their families

Those people want peace, and the only people they see fighting against such a crual oppression are the ISlamic Jihad, the Briggades Ezzehdine Al Quassam and the Al Aqsa brigades (fatah linked), with the most vocal one beeing the military wing of the Hamas movement.

And to be honest, when you are facing complete annihilationm you tend to wish for the annihilation of your ennemy, that's just common sense. Nobody in his right mind would believe that french resistant, in the forties, were just wishing to talk the germans into leaving their countries, they were trying as hard as they can to cleanse it from them. That's the palestinian resistants stance.

And what do you believem that hamas members are army men? that they are army trained? that you can identify one from another? of course they in the population,m because they are part of it. That doesn't make ISrael's act any less barbaric, cruel or unneeded

I just can'T believe you're muslim.

 

[Ripclawe]

I just can'T believe you're muslim.

This is the type of stereotyping that annoys me. I'm Muslim, but I am not an extremist. Just because someone or some group is Muslim doesn't me I automatically support something that is considered a Muslim cause. That is just ridiculous.


As I said before, the Palestinian history is one of stupid moves, lousy leadership that has led them to this point. The lastest intifada was an unwise move that not only undercut their case, the results after 4 years was predictable. Israel wised up about 2 years ago and started to go after certain leaders and high ranking officers. So now they have this mess which is worse than want they started with. The lastest fighting started in Gaza by Hamas and other militias is for nothing more than bragging rights. You want me to support that sort of stupidity?

Stop and think about that. Israel is leaving, Gaza is going to be left to the Palestinians and they decide they want "bragging" rights, instead of thinking about rebuilding and getting political power for the future. Now thats a cause I can get behind.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694664.stm

Four years after the eruption of the al-Aqsa intifada, the dominant mood among Palestinians is one of defeat.
This is registered not only in enormous human and material losses.

It is seen in the progressive collapse of the Palestinian Authority as a central governing body, replaced on the ground by local and increasingly unaccountable militias.

The militias there are determined to claim Israel's withdrawal as a military victory and have stepped up attacks on Israeli soldiers, Jewish settlements and neighbouring Israeli towns.

Israel has stepped up assassinations, arrest sweeps and incursions, determined to tame Gaza - and the Islamic movement Hamas in particular - before it leaves.

Relentless Israeli military operations have left militias in the West Bank fragmented and on the run.

They are headed now by young, inexperienced leaders, sometimes sponsored by PA officials or foreign powers jockeying for status in internal or regional power struggles.

 

[Che]

Cat was accused of giving money to Hamas, which if true, he should be in jail till he rots.

Idiot, Hamas is a political party and a resistance group, and everybody should respect them if they knew some history. I shouldn't be surprised by your opinion on this...

 

[Ripclawe]

Idiot, Hamas is a political party and a resistance group. I shouldn't be surprised by your opinion on this...

Lets look at it from your way of thinking, as a political group Hamas is terrible and as a "resistance" group as reported by the BBC, they have failed miserably in their goals. Why is anyone surprised by my opinion on this? I do not, will not support terrorists group.

 

[FightyF]

Hamas back then was just a political wing and it served a purpose by being opposed to arafat, then the militants took over in the 80's and turned it into islamic terrorists group that it is today. Israel "supported" by getting its own agents into the group. So if you think thats hard support, go for it.
IIRC, even when it was started it opposed Israel and seeked its destruction without actually doing anything violent at first.

Israel also supported it with funds and weapons. If that's not "hard" support, what is?

Oh yes, you claim that fundraising for the Jerusalem Fund, an organization that sponsors hospitals and schools (that are not affiliated with the PLO) should be considered "hard support".

If you have a probelm with the National Post, email them and say their story is false.

I don't have to do it, Reuters and the Canadian government are on their tail for their shady reporting and passing them off as fact. They were probably already flooded with emails telling them their story is false.

Hamas shoots rockets, killing 2 kids, Israel responds. Now considering brave Hamas are hiding out among civilians, you are going to get innocents killed. There is no getting around it.

So you're saying that these deaths on both sides are the only option? WTF are you smoking?

This is the type of stereotyping that annoys me. I'm Muslim, but I am not an extremist. Just because someone or some group is Muslim doesn't me I automatically support something that is considered a Muslim cause. That is just ridiculous.

The problem with you (never mind your faith) is that you are not a moderate. You are an extremist. You are on the opposite end of Osama bin Laden, but like him, you advocate death, you imply that violence is the only answer, and you don't take both sides into consideration.