SolidSnakex
Member
Laguna X said:
The Gundam footage is fantastic just because of how many people it owned.
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CES: PS3 Presented and Bluray Launch
- Thread starter Shapingo
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The Gundam footage is fantastic just because of how many people it owned.
Letter to Elise
Banned
Amir0x said:
That's nice of you.
~l2e
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Kojima already went on to say the models and such are the same in cinemas and gameplay regarding MGS4, what more do you have to ask for? So that 60,000 vert on Snake's head cinema is the same 60,000 vert head of hair in gameplay. His team has proven themselves what they can do many times, I don't have doubt at what they can do.
Wait, what now?Amir0x said:
I corrected your interpretation of Rob's comments. He was referring to games for which gameplay has been shown. You interpreted his comments as referring to games for which "real-time" cutscenes had been shown. That's it - I'm not mental to get dragged into a debate about what some game will or will not hypothetically look like.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Woohoo! I had my plane ticket, hotel lodging, and CES badge ready to go a few weeks ago. It's gonna be one of the more interesting CESes.
Mrbob, there's no reason to be frightful. It looks like PS3 is in line for a March debut, and that makes me feel even more secure about X360s outlook. Looky here:
March launch of PS3 will mean that the two hardwares are only around 4 months apart in march of silicon progress. This pretty much negates any of the huge technological timing advantages that PS2 had over DC (16 months), and XBox over PS2 (20 months). If all things being equal, it would be a wash.
Sure, the PS3 has transistor count and FLOPS advantage in CPU (235M v 165M, 115 GFLOPS v 218 GFLOPS), and more logic units in GPU (300M v 250M), but X360 has EDRAM advantage (not on die, but still quite nice an advantage to have) and more flexible main memory arrangement. Again, a wash.
The wildcard for me is Bluray. I call it a wildcard and not a advantage because first, X360 has more integrated (and pretty much included) HDD, but also because I'm not so sure how much the BR will effect the pricing of the PS3.
All the other components give slight pricing advantage to X360 due to less transistor count built on same process (90nm). The HDD is probably costing MS less than $20 since it's a low density and relatively slow unit by today's standards. I just don't know how much Sony can leverage on BR's cost. Sure they could eat it, but then so can MS (and MS is in much better finacial shape to win that battle).
Not about the PS3 per se, but another curiosity about BR I want answered at CES is if that report I read a few weeks ago about Sony's BR head announcing MPEG2 as the defacto codec for BR movie playback is indeed true, because it's downright fucking STOOOPID if it's true. It basically negates the ENTIRE storage advantage BR has over HD-DVD for movies!! HD-DVD's 25GB of h.264/WM9/whatever the lastest greatest MEPG4 will actually be able to give you longer and better quality footage then BR disc giving you 50GB of MPEG2! This is one of the most curious announcements I've read about BR that I want answered ASAP.
Anyways, I can't wait until CES!
Mrbob said:
Mrbob, there's no reason to be frightful. It looks like PS3 is in line for a March debut, and that makes me feel even more secure about X360s outlook. Looky here:
March launch of PS3 will mean that the two hardwares are only around 4 months apart in march of silicon progress. This pretty much negates any of the huge technological timing advantages that PS2 had over DC (16 months), and XBox over PS2 (20 months). If all things being equal, it would be a wash.
Sure, the PS3 has transistor count and FLOPS advantage in CPU (235M v 165M, 115 GFLOPS v 218 GFLOPS), and more logic units in GPU (300M v 250M), but X360 has EDRAM advantage (not on die, but still quite nice an advantage to have) and more flexible main memory arrangement. Again, a wash.
The wildcard for me is Bluray. I call it a wildcard and not a advantage because first, X360 has more integrated (and pretty much included) HDD, but also because I'm not so sure how much the BR will effect the pricing of the PS3.
All the other components give slight pricing advantage to X360 due to less transistor count built on same process (90nm). The HDD is probably costing MS less than $20 since it's a low density and relatively slow unit by today's standards. I just don't know how much Sony can leverage on BR's cost. Sure they could eat it, but then so can MS (and MS is in much better finacial shape to win that battle).
Not about the PS3 per se, but another curiosity about BR I want answered at CES is if that report I read a few weeks ago about Sony's BR head announcing MPEG2 as the defacto codec for BR movie playback is indeed true, because it's downright fucking STOOOPID if it's true. It basically negates the ENTIRE storage advantage BR has over HD-DVD for movies!! HD-DVD's 25GB of h.264/WM9/whatever the lastest greatest MEPG4 will actually be able to give you longer and better quality footage then BR disc giving you 50GB of MPEG2! This is one of the most curious announcements I've read about BR that I want answered ASAP.
Anyways, I can't wait until CES!
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
"No ones saying it is. But its already been confirmed that the gameplay and cutscenes will run on the same engine so there's not going to be any difference between them despite what some have been hoping."
um... isn't the same true for GoW, the difference is it seems to move much poorer in game than it does in cuts?
saying that,
It's amazing what they are getting out of the silent hill engine this late in the day.
um... isn't the same true for GoW, the difference is it seems to move much poorer in game than it does in cuts?
saying that,
It's amazing what they are getting out of the silent hill engine this late in the day.
Rhindle said:
Originally, until rob clarified his position, it could have easily been interpreted as anything real-time PS3 has produced. Which is the case for MGS4. The argument after all was a reason for justifying the PS3s perceived power advantage (based on Mrbobs comment).
But you're technically correct, it is not "gameplay" for MGS4. Gameplay will of course look precisely the same, and actually everything overall by the end will probably look better, but that's neither here nor there. You're correct, it's not 'gameplay' at the moment and there's no use extending it to the hypothetical quality of the visuals.
So I concede!
rob the slob
Banned
Im hoping they announce the price. And I also hope they announce the launch lineup for Japan.
Oh, and hopefully they show some movies running in HD.
Oh, and hopefully they show some movies running in HD.
rob the slob said:Oh I dont know, maybe cause the only gameplay Sony has shown for PS3 looks like this.
Dont set yourself up for disapointment.
They will be pretty much equal in grafx, except maybe later in the PS3's life they will pull slightly ahead.
Did they really show in-game footage of this title? I might have missed it, but if so- then that is indeed, very impressive. I agree that few titles here & there will be pretty comparable to the 360, but if you compare PD0 (1st gen library/FPS/1st party title) to I-8 (1st gen library/FPS/1st party title)- the grafx are on a different scale. Personally, I think it is Sony who will come out on top, not because of their superiorty hardware, but their experience in developing the best engines available due time.
SolidSnakex
Member
DCharlie said:
What does the GoW teams capabilities have to do with Kojima Productions?
Yamaha98 said:
Download the trailer here:
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748483/vids_1.html
If you're a insider, make sure to download the 53mb one.
PS! For those who don't know, I-8 is just the codename for this game(meaning Insomniacs eight game) and I guess the final title will be revealed at CES.
Since you guys want to get all technical about this, you shouldn't actually be calling I-8 or 5th Phantom games we've actually seen in action, being played by someone, because all we've seen of those two games is footage that portrays something that looks like actual gameplay. But we haven't actually seen a person playing these games any more than we've someone play the Killzone footage. Giving those games more credibility than engines we've seen manipulated in realtime such as MGS4, Gundam, Fatal Inertia and so forth is a little disingenuous.rob the slob said:
Timen said:
To be fair to Rhindle, I don't believe that's true. There's certainly a difference, it's just that Kojima's team is brilliant and they have never even once been dishonest about the visuals they can produce. And since every Solid game has had the same cinematic visuals as gameplay visuals (animation aside), there's no reason to start doubting. But we're being pretty technical in this conversation, so this trust issue need not apply.
Letter to Elise
Banned
Amir0x said:
I think that's what DCharlie was trying to say, but I didn't point it out as I didn't want SSX jumping on me.
~l2e
rob the slob
Banned
Well some of the levels in PDZ, particularly the jungle level are really impressive and can definately hold its own against I-8.Yamaha98 said:
SolidSnakex
Member
rob the slob said:
That's what makes I-8 all the more impressive though when you think about it.
Shogmaster said:
You so readily dismiss some quite large differences between the two. Maybe it depends on how particular you are, but they're quite different machines. Anyway, this isn't really what this thread is about.
On a more general note, whilst this news is seemingly unconfirmed (?), I'd expect PS3 to be at CES simply because it will be Sony's first Blu-ray player, IIRC (or at least it was planned to be).
I-8 is a build from E3 running very well. PDZ at E3 ran and looked like shit. All things equal, by the time I-8 is released, it will look leaps and bounds better.rob the slob said:
Well, yeah, but who knows, by the time GoW is released ingame might look as good as cutscenes. MGS4 we've been told it will.DCharlie said:
Amir0x said:
This is a very delicate question.
What I think it is that it's a CGI made by ingame assets. As in, the game will use the same enviroments and character models..etc. This was not run in-engine(in that trailer) I strongly believe.
Every animation and everything was made for this cgi trailer.
I think the final game(gameplay) will look the same(though with realtime glitches like jaggies and such) with animation/ai looking more like gameplay today(though I have to say, Guerrilla rock within animation).
Sorry, Wollan, but I don't actually think you're hearing what I'm saying if you think that's pertinent aspect of the comparison I made.Wollan said:Kaching, I hear what you're saying but it's pretty clear that I-8 is ingame and being played as opposed to Killzone.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
kaching said:
Well that would explain alot, wouldn't it? I'm gonna blame it on badly worded reporting (it was engadget after all) :lol
I wonder what the hold up on deciding on the official codec is. A bit late in the game, isn't it?
Letter to Elise
Banned
Amir0x said:
Hope for the best, expect the worst.
You chose wisely...
~l2e
rob the slob
Banned
We only saw the Multiplayer at E3, but if you remember they showed PDZ single player to some people privately and they all raved about how good it looks.Striek said:
By the way here is the jungle level I was talking about.
I think it looks better than I-8 actually.
Of All Trades
Member
I thought they were quite dishonest when they opted to not show vids of MGS2/3 where a few enemies were onscreen at once and a grenade blows up, dumping the framerate into the low teens.Amir0x said:
Nor did they reveal to us how truly, truly terrible Snake's cigar looked in MGS3 when they, for reasons beyond me, decided to have a cinematic sequence where it's thrown right at the camera, horrendous texture and all.
Or how about how it looked like MGS3 would take place in a big expansive jungle, when the reality was that it was just a bunch of linear rooms with trees and surprisingly high cliffs.
rob the slob said:
I don't know, the video (grainy in quality) showed off some nice physic effects (2 parked vehicles responding to near explosions) let alone a respectful amount of well-modeled characters on screen. I am not sure if this is one of Sony's 5fps-sped-up-for-E3 hype or what, but I will say this. If we are really promised these suspose gameplay footage (KillZone, MotorStorm, I-8, etc) come launch, then a day of reckoning will dawn upon the many 'net doubters (ie Xbots) that will see no end (ie msgbrds).
ps- anyone know why I cannot start NEW threads?
Of All Trades said:
....
absolutely none of that has to do with the honestly/dishonestly of Kojima and crew. They showed videos real-time, the game looked like that real-time. I don't really think it's their job to report every last time the framerate dips a little bit, or every time there's some bland textures on a specific unimportant item. In fact, I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with honesty at all.
And your last point is just LOLworthy because it proves that you do a lot of ASSuming when it comes to games. And you know the saying for that.
SolidSnakex
Member
Amir0x said:
BUT THE CIGAR. How dare they do something like that.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
kaching said:
Are you saying that Sony fucking prefers MPEG2 over the other choices?!? @_0
Vaandaviii
Member
rob the slob said:Oh I dont know, maybe cause the only gameplay Sony has shown for PS3 looks like this.
Dont set yourself up for disapointment.
They will be pretty much equal in grafx, except maybe later in the PS3's life they will pull slightly ahead.
If I-8 is looking bad I eat my slippers
solarplexus
Member
Chittagong said:
Apparently this old news is from november.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6285743.html?text=sony+moving+to+main+show+floor+at+ces
In the short term, it would appear so. Reason given, which seems rational enough, is that their tools for mastering in MPEG2 are more mature at the moment allowing them to get movies to market quicker and cheaper, and with the amount of space available on a BD-ROM, they have enough room to use MPEG2 at high enough bitrate to keep the VQ very good.Shogmaster said:
sonycowboy said:
This is what I want to see. Do Sony have a grand home entertainment strategy? If not, or they don't show at least something new, then I will lose hope for them.
I'm hoping for a 'future home' kinda concept, with PS3 and their Vaio UPnP stuff working together as a proper connected home. Possibly with video footage of other stuff the PS3 will do, like web browsing, video chat etc.
Its not E3, so there won't be lots of specifics on games, but there should be enough peripheral stuff to give you more of a picture of what Sony's plans are for PS3.
About MPEG2 - it was brought up before, but aren't the other codecs simply using heavier compression while retaining up to the same quality as MPEG2? That's the case with MPEG4, at least, I don't know about VC1. If that's the case with both, then using MPEG2 while you can still fit the movies on one disc makes sense.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
kaching said:
That hits on some of the sore point with me on all of this next gen DVD shenanigans.
First of all, I'm not sure if the consumers ready for all this shit: The HDTV penetration is still all but a tick's testicles (out of all the HDTVs sold in the market thus far, which probably don't even come near 5%, how many are 1080p and have HDMI? And if you have an older HDTV with component or VGA only, you are stuck watching BR movies at 480p or 540p?!?), Sony and the gang haven't decided on THE codec making it a free for all orgy amongst the BR space (can you imagine that scene at Best Buy for the unwitting bleeding edge consumers trying to figure out what disc is using what and what looks better that what even though they are all BR DVDs?) and all the convinience advantage of the format is non-existant over the previous format they are asking us to abandon.
That last point is a big one in my mind. Why did LD flop over VHS while DVD flourished few years later even though LD VQ was light years over the format it was trying to succeed? I think it was all about convinience. LD had HUGE unweildy discs the size of family sized pizzas, AND you had to flip the discs half way through the movies often times. That's almost as bad as rewinding and forwading tapes. DVD came out few years later and addressed the physical size to become a runaway success.
Truly, DVD made high quality movie viewing more convinient than anything else before. By combining quality AND convinence, it made sure it went further than LD did. Not only that, there was no real competing format (DIVX was not a competing format at the time in my mind, but a off shoot format that failed with stupid execution of unwanted business model). In short, VHS to DVD gave the consumers:
1. huge jump in visual quality over VHS
2. huge convinience over VHS (I wonder if any of the younger members at GAF remembers having to rewind tapes before returning them to BlockBusterl or wading through the tape for ages to get to the part you wanted to see)
3. minimal hardware compatibility problems (RF modulator for your stinky old TV was the worst that you had to deal with)
4. Modest hardware costs and reduced software costs ($400~500 for a decent player and $250 for the cheapest. plus no more rediculous costs to buy huge multi tape epic movies)
5. Nice ans steady stream of movie releases from practically everyone from day one. No confusing competing formats.
In contrast, how does those same advantages work out for BR over DVD?
1. huge jump in display resolution that you may or may not see depending on your TV.
2. absoultely no improvement in convinience.
3. a huge headache of compatibility problem to enjoy the full benefit of the format. No digital input on your HDTV with DHCP? You'll get 480p/540p and you'll like it mister! What, no HDTV at all? Then fuck off until you spend $3000+ for your lastest and greatest 1080p HDTV with HDMI.
4. Cheapest BR player is gonna be a $500 ish gaming console. You don't care about games? Then just pretend it's a BR DVD player that looks like a George Foreman grille and comes with a funny looking remote control.
5. HD-DVD says hello! Studios are all fucking confused how to best deal with this mess. Some are downright schizo over it.
And all that wasn't enough, a little anacdotal side story for you guys to further drive the point home. For the last 2 months, I've been working for Dolby Labs as a contractor installing their Cinea SV-300 secure DVD players to various Hollywood award voting member's residences. Basically what this means is I drive all over LA going to Hollywood Foreign Press (Golden Globes), The British Academy of Film and Television Arts (British academy awards), and Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (oscars) voting members to install this specialized DVD player that play specially encrypted screeners that can't be seen on any other DVD players.
Now keep in mind, this is Los fucking Angeles, the home of Hollywood, tons of money, and rich industry folks. And I'm installing these high end (has component, SCART, HDMI out, does NTSC and PAL, and upscales to 720p and 1080i) DVD player to voting member of the academy, HFPA, and BAFTA. And out of all those people I've installed this player to over the last two months, I can count on my one hand people that had HDTVs to install to. I never saw a 1080p capable set once. You know what the most used accessories out of my toolbag was? The fucking RF Modulator and a composite AB switch!! :lol
Yeah, that proabaly is uselss to the discussion since it's anacdotal, but I have to tell ya, the consuming public is still in the dark ages when it come sto TVs. I really think BR is gonna have a tough time at it in the initial going, and it's gonna take far far longer for BR to have DVD like success. 2006 is just too early to abandon DVD and embrace BR.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Rhindle said:
I wonder how long it will take to encode a video file that massive to wmv-hd format
@_@
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Stinkles said:
Are you willing to download a 25GB movie? Movies on demand is good but you won't be getting the quality you get from Blu Ray or HD-DVD movies. Might as well as stick with DVDs
Just to put this in perspective, it took me 7 days to download a 15GB anime series on a 8mbit connection, this is on a torrent network with a steady connection of 100kb/s.