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[Fat4all]

OK, so... the comic is depicting the mood of the current anti-immigration establishment in France. From their point of view, it's an off-hand like "well, it's a good thing we are acknowledging this issue, because now they can molest our women!" Showing the dead child is a direct callback to the satire of the original, which was ignoring the immigration issue was killing immigrants.

Fuck, this shit is confusing to work out.

 

[orochi91]

I think what confuses me is that there's no depiction of the actual people who complain about the immigrates, unless I'm missing something in translation.

It's kind of like when a kid hears something from someone, and draws something based on whatever it was they heard, but when someone else sees the picture, they're confused because that picture alone doesn't provide enough context of what the kid overheard.

I suppose it's the type of situation where it would make sense in a local (French) context.

The readers of the comic will likely know what the satire is about, but for viewers uninitiated in French dark humour/satire it would come off as exceedingly crass.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I think what confuses me is that there's no depiction of the actual people who complain about the immigrates, unless I'm missing something in translation.

It's kind of like when a kid hears something from someone, and draws something based on whatever it was they heard, but when someone else sees the picture, they're confused because that picture alone doesn't provide enough context of what the kid overheard.

It seems like it's supposed to be a commentary on how easily people vacillate but it also operates on the assumption that CHeb is benevolent

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

 

[davepoobond]

its not really supposed to be funny.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

This is disgusting, the people who work at this Hebdo place are fucked in the head it seems as this is not the first time they have attacked that poor kid. What the fuck has that poor kid done besides die?

 

[Fularu]

This is disgusting, the people who work at this Hebdo place are fucked in the head it seems as this is not the first time they have attacked that poor kid. What the fuck has that poor kid done besides die?

You're not understanding the comic if you even remotely believe they are attacking the kid.

 

[Afrocious]

it's like going to a funeral with a laugh track

 

[Fat4all]

You're not understanding the comic if you even remotely believe they are attacking the kid.

tis jok

 

[Crash Station]

Yeah I mean, it's not like cartoons have ever played a large part in the propagation of negative stereotypes and perceptions of another race before... oh wait...

It's the reactions to those cartoons that played a part in the propagation of negative stereotypes and perception of another race. Unless you're thinking of different examples than I am.

 

[Corvo Jensen]

who would have thought, another tasteless cartoon from charlie hebdo? shock of the year. oh well, better all the freedom than none at all, right?

 

[ugh_the_boot]

You're not understanding the comic if you even remotely believe they are attacking the kid.

Oh good, someone who understands it, off you go with your explanation then....

 

[Fat4all]

who would have thought, another tasteless cartoon from charlie hebdo? shock of the year. oh well, better all the freedom than none at all amirite?

Uhhh... yes?

The fuck was that "amirite"?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Oh good, someone who understands it, off you go with your explanation then....

It's above...

 

[ugh_the_boot]

It's above...

It's above you to explain things? Oh sooorrryyy

Spoiler

j/k

 

[Psychoward]

who would have thought, another tasteless cartoon from charlie hebdo? shock of the year. oh well, better all the freedom than none at all amirite?

nah, let's do away with free speech because that's totally logical and rational

 

[torre_avenue]

That's pretty good.

In my opinion, it's basically just satirizing the media, from in one moment depicting the refugees as fragile humans making their way to a safe place to another moment, where they're all murderers and rapists and scum ruining Europe.

At least that's my interpretation for it.

It's interesting to see the complete turnaround on Charlie Hebdo in this thread. One moment, they're brave pushers of the comedic frontier who paid the ultimate price for their art, the next they're shitty for making the same commentary they would have done had the massacre not happened. Court of public opinions reverses its judgement quite easily.

 

[Jacob]

I find it so depressing that THIS is the publication that sparked so much controversy and has garnered so much support for the (rightful) case of free speech, rather than an actual intelligent publication. If they are trying to be a "right-wing South Park" then they are doing a really shitty job at it as a lot of their cartoons are just tasteless and dumb.

Huh? Charlie Hebdo is pretty consistently far-left in their politics.

 

[DrunkShogun]

As messed up as the Charlie Hebdo murder was, the company itself was never actually good with the content they release. Never find them to actually be good in all the years I've been aware of them.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That's pretty good.

In my opinion, it's basically just satirizing the media, from in one moment depicting the refugees as fragile humans making their way to a safe place to another moment, where they're all murderers and rapists and scum ruining Europe.

At least that's my interpretation for it.

It's interesting to see the complete turnaround on Charlie Hebdo in this thread. One moment, they're brave pushers of the comedic frontier who paid the ultimate price for their art, the next they're shitty for making the same commentary they would have done had the massacre not happened. Court of public opinions reverses its judgement quite easily.

Good chance they're not the same people

 

[Crash Station]

I find it so depressing that THIS is the publication that sparked so much controversy and has garnered so much support for the (rightful) case of free speech, rather than an actual intelligent publication. If they are trying to be a "right-wing South Park" then they are doing a really shitty job at it as a lot of their cartoons are just tasteless and dumb.

Putting aside whether Hebdo is an intelligent publication or not, I disagree. Getting support for a right should utilize the absolute bottom of the barrel for what that right represents. There's no point in championing the best as it's not much of a critical analysis of that freedom in the first place.

 

[Piichan]

That's pretty good.

In my opinion, it's basically just satirizing the media, from in one moment depicting the refugees as fragile humans making their way to a safe place to another moment, where they're all murderers and rapists and scum ruining Europe.

At least that's my interpretation for it.

That's how I see it too.

Agreeing/disagreeing with what Charlie Hebdo is conveying is fine, but a lot of people seem to do so on the end of the spectrums.

 

[Kozak]

Isnt the cartoon commenting on how stupid and racist peoples beliefs and opinions of immigrants are?

So people are outraged cause their racism has been pointed out?

Whats going on?

 

[Dryk]

Huh? Charlie Hebdo is pretty consistently far-left in their politics.

From the outside they blend in with the actual far-right too well. I assume you get a different view if you consistently read their magazine and have the full context. Out-of-context though their cartoons don't have anything to tip people off to the fact that the artist isn't just one of many people that actually think like that.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

I instantly got their point. That Aylan is a child who is innocent and died tragically while some xenophobes want to assume that all immigrants are like those NYE sexual predators (who received tons of publicity). It's a good comparison to make for sure since it exposes hypocrisy in the way some people think.

But a little part of me is worried that some bigots might see this and actually think it agrees with their views since they're too stupid to see the point. But then why should anyone care what someone like that thinks?

 

[bonesmccoy]

I instantly got their point.

I don't think that was their point.

 

[Fularu]

I instantly got their point. That Aylan is a child who is innocent and died tragically while some xenophobes want to assume that all immigrants are like those NYE sexual predators (who received tons of publicity). It's a good comparison to make for sure since it exposes hypocrisy in the way some people think.

But a little part of me is worried that some bigots might see this and actually think it agrees with their views since they're too stupid to see the point. But then why should anyone care what someone like that thinks?

They aren't reading Charlie Hebdo

 

[Toparaman]

I instantly got their point. That Aylan is a child who is innocent and died tragically while some xenophobes want to assume that all immigrants are like those NYE sexual predators (who received tons of publicity). It's a good comparison to make for sure since it exposes hypocrisy in the way some people think.

But a little part of me is worried that some bigots might see this and actually think it agrees with their views since they're too stupid to see the point. But then why should anyone care what someone like that thinks?

Honestly you could probably say that about any decent satire. South Park definitely has its fair share of fans who think Cartman is a role model.

But I think a lot of Americans are used to the Stephen Colbert style of political satire where everything is delivered with a wink and a nudge. Hebdo doesn't show its hand that easily.

 

[Corvo Jensen]

Uhhh... yes?

The fuck was that "amirite"?

a little stab against them that I may have phrased a little weird, but of course better all the freedom than none, no strings attached this time.

 

[Fat4all]

a little stab against them that I may have phrased a little weird, but of course better all the freedom than none, no strings attached this time.

Aiight, we cool.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Isnt the cartoon commenting on how stupid and racist peoples beliefs and opinions of immigrants are?

So people are outraged cause their racism has been pointed out?

Whats going on?

Comic has a certain meaning within the context of the magazine's editorials and articles, as well as French politics. People who aren't French post the comic without the context and then throw tantrums.

It's pretty simple, really.

 

[Jacob]

From the outside they blend in with the actual far-right too well. I assume you get a different view if you consistently read their magazine and have the full context. Out-of-context though their cartoons don't have anything to tip people off to the fact that the artist isn't just one of many people that actually think like that.

I think the juxtaposition between two very different migrant stories is the giveaway. Most anti-migrant people in this day and age are not going to take the dead baby incident and be like "yeah, the kid deserved it". They try to be subtler about it and focus on certain boogeymen. By putting that image next to the current post-Cologne migrant anxiety strips away all the dog whistles and innuendos and forces people to look at anti-migrant sentiment in its full context.

 

[Madness]

I don't get the joke. Or what it's satirizing.

I don't know why people think Charlie Hebdo is some comedic outfit. They often use inflammatory and satirical things to get their 'viewpoints' or 'opinions' out there.

Pretending to be offended now and not at the years of crazy covers and cartoons they've done is crazy. There is no joke, they're saying in flat terms, that people think if Aylan didn't die, he'd possibly be a rapist in Germany. Sort of as a reverse to all the 'this little boy never got a chance to grow up' cartoons or backlash for the photo. It's crass but they've long done stuff like this. The sympathy they got during the attacks is for the fact that they shouldn't be killed over it, no one should ever be killed for something they do/say/create even if it's ridiculously offensive. But Charlie Hebdo has been pro immigration.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Honestly you could probably say that about any decent satire. South Park definitely has its fair share of fans who think Cartman is a role model.

But I think a lot of Americans are used to the Stephen Colbert style of political satire where everything is delivered with a wink and a nudge. Hebdo doesn't show its hand that easily.

I feel like that's because of a difference in the style of racism in America, where normally racists don't speak plainly in public so a lot of them do in fact try to subtly imply their bigoted views in a way that could sound like satire. Meanwhile in euroland, you have fringe political parties that come right out and say they think all people of a certain background are murderers and rapists. Even someone like Donald Trump tries to contain himself a bit and say that a lot of minorities are "good ones" whether he's talking about Muslims, Mexicans, or any other minority he's insulted and wants to kick out.

It's probably the fear of getting fired over expressing those views that makes racists try to be subtle here and hence, why American satire tries to be obvious. I'm sure all of us Americans have had a moment in real life where we're talking to someone who seems normal and then all of a sudden says that blacks are just stealing taxes. Wouldn't it be cool if you didn't have to socialize with someone before finding out something like that?

 

[Famassu]

Dems is just jokes..

Jokes aren't sacred & above criticism. Joking about drowned children and how they'd have been molesters even if they lived is a pretty disgusting thing to joke about. It COULD maybe fly if it was made by someone like Louis CK with a kind of properly dark setup & context for it, but just as a single image comic strip that just makes fun of all the dead would-be-immigrant children being molestors-in-the-making is all kinds of shitty?

EDIT: Oh, ok, just read some of the context of the image. If they are actually criticizing xenophobes, then I guess it's not too bad.

 

[Violet_0]

In a twisted way, they're mocking people who put all immigrants in the same bag and view them as molesters/rapists/terrorists/thieves and so on.

It's very very french

all their works are usually like that. People are too quick to call them out for being racist or ignorant, in the case of Charlie Hebdo you sometimes need to think a layer deeper. They're quite cynical

 

[Screaming Meat]

Any sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality, it seems.

all their works are usually like that. People are too quick to call them out for being racist or ignorant, in the case of Charlie Hebdo you sometimes need to think a layer deeper. They're quite cynical

Yup.

 

[facetheslayer92]

This is tasteless and disgusting. Makes me sad

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Basically this from what I'm getting, there's a point sure... But being vague isn't thoughtful.

 

[...Scatter...]

Nothing funny about a dead child. Children are not fodder for stupid idealogical shit. There are other ways to get your point across. As a father of a 5 year old, just no.

 

[daviyoung]

GAF reacts to satire is one of my favourite topics

There is no joke, they're saying in flat terms, that people think if Aylan didn't die, he'd possibly be a rapist in Germany. Sort of as a reverse to all the 'this little boy never got a chance to grow up' cartoons or backlash for the photo.

This should be in the OP

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Hard to see it as satire out of context, hard to see it as anything other than satire in context.

Will be interesting to see how many of the organisations/ news outlets getting angry about this are the same ones who did their hardest not to get angry about mass sexual abuse (or to ignore it for as long as possible)

 

[Walshicus]

Does it really?
I'm honestly asking because that is not something that comes across to my non French eyes.

Dunno, seems pretty obvious to this Englishman. Then again, English and French humour isn't *that* far apart when it comes to satire.

 

[King Tubby]

Charlie Hebdo are liberals, you morons. They're being shocking to make a point. They're satirizing the people who don't care about refugees.

 

[BarringGaffner]

Another year, another Charlie Hebdo outrage thread... with the usual offended people followed by a bunch of people having to explain satire :/

 

[davepoobond]

Basically this from what I'm getting, there's a point sure... But being vague isn't thoughtful.

there is context around the picture. also its not thought-provoking to have everything just be expository

 

[Chariot]

Charlie Hebdo are liberals, you morons. They're being shocking to make a point. They're satirizing the people who don't care about refugees.

What point do they make?

edit: don't edit while I reply >
That's not really shown well. Charlie Hebdo are bad and clumsy at satire. That's all.

 

[Alx]

You're giving Charlie Hebdo too much credit if you believe it's either an attack against migrants or a satire of the migrant hate... It's just humor based on shock value, like it or not. It's been their shtick since the beginning, and it's no better or worse than a dead baby joke (well technically, it IS a dead baby joke).

"What's red and taps on the window ? A baby in a microwave...". It's neither promoting putting babies in microwaves, nor mocking hypothetical people who do it, it's just using a horrible, unexpected twist to trigger a laugh.

 

[neorej]

Charlie Hebdo threads are the best

 

[King Tubby]

You're giving Charlie Hebdo too much credit if you believe it's either an attack against migrants or a satire of the migrant hate... It's just humor based on shock value, like it or not. It's been their shtick since the beginning, and it's no better or worse than a dead baby joke (well technically, it IS a dead baby joke).

It is obviously a satire of migrant hate. You have to be obtuse to not see that.