This doesn't make sense on a number of layers. The not making sense density is high.
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Charlie Hebdo publishes cartoon of drowned Syrian toddler, "Muslims sink"
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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This doesn't make sense on a number of layers. The not making sense density is high.
Maninthemirror
Banned
In the heat of the moments or events , satire can especially offend
Some countries have themselves sued over sensitive matters like South Africa
Sometimes it's just used by the other side to make fun of another
And sometimes satire really crosses the line
So you come to the realization that the freedom of speech doesn't equate that you should offend sensibilities, it means you have the responsibility to use it maturely, you certainly have the right to offend on sensitive matters but that makes you an idiot nothing more nothing less and does not move the conversation forward. Positive satire like Colbert moved ideas forward because he took the responsibility to use freedom of speech where he healed wounds with humor not take a pencil and jab it in the wound and laugh while saying that's just satire because you are not tending to that wound , that is what Charlie hedbo does
Some countries have themselves sued over sensitive matters like South Africa
Sometimes it's just used by the other side to make fun of another
And sometimes satire really crosses the line
So you come to the realization that the freedom of speech doesn't equate that you should offend sensibilities, it means you have the responsibility to use it maturely, you certainly have the right to offend on sensitive matters but that makes you an idiot nothing more nothing less and does not move the conversation forward. Positive satire like Colbert moved ideas forward because he took the responsibility to use freedom of speech where he healed wounds with humor not take a pencil and jab it in the wound and laugh while saying that's just satire because you are not tending to that wound , that is what Charlie hedbo does
brainchild
Banned
Satire is not pure humor. It's a literary art that's used to criticize and ridicule. If the people you criticize and ridicule don't get that you're doing that, and it only caters to a niche, it's not true satire.
In the case of this cartoon, if only a small handful of Europeans understand the point, it has failed to work as intended.
However, I suppose I can't really say it's failed, as I don't know how Europeans are responding to this.
I agree with this. Terrible click-bait title, even if it is technically accurate.
If they actually understand the satire, then I'm fine with it being viewed as being in poor taste. I just wasn't sure if that was the case.
I don't think you understand the points the Hebdo cartoons are making. Certainly if you equate them to any of the points made in the cartoons you cited here you don't.
I think they get the point just fine. They just like to throw a fit and jump on the internet hate bandwagon. It's like the hot thing to do on social media right now.
BarringGaffner
Member
This.
It seems that most people are too stupid or too easily offended to understand it. The same thing happened after their office was attacked and people were judging their cartoons and deciding whether or not they deserved to die.
These children died because they had to sneak in rather than be let in.
brainchild
Banned
I know I'm going to come across as being extremely pedantic, but this cartoon is not sarcasm. This cartoon is making a point.
Sarcasm (if done properly) is something that is obviously not true in the sense that the statement is to be taken seriously, but funny because of the irony of it. It does not aim to deliver a message.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Let's ask the parents of other refugees who drowned or were killed if they agree with Charlie hedbos point of using the death of the toddler as a ploy for the satire
No one is calling it not satire, a lot of people are calling it insensitive and offensive Satire
brainchild
Banned
They probably wouldn't like it, but there's this wonderful little thing called free speech, which is not beholden to the acknowledgment or respect of other people's misfortunes.
As most satire is.
They're making fun of the callousness of European culture towards the Muslims....by being callous. The French are weird.
Not sure if things have changed recently, but I always saw the French as being the most callous and intolerable of muslims out of the European nations.
Charlie Hebdo is on those parent's side. They're arguing for them. The image being used isn't a "ploy," it's the whole damn point.
Well...I was talking about Hebdo's intent for the cartoons, not French actions towards their muslim minority or muslim immigrants. Hell, they colonized a Muslim country, they should be better adjusted. But they're not.
brainchild
Banned
You're absolutely right, but I'm sure the parents don't give a shit about that.
Personally, I think it's brilliant!
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
most good satire is insensitive and offensive.
eeehhhh
Has a parent or parents given any kind of reaction to the cartoons?
Maninthemirror
Banned
The purpose of free speech and satire is to bring to light underlying issues, not poke at the pain of individual loss of individuals offending sensibilities.
Would you be ok with ch satirizing a falling man from the World Trade Center on 9/11. The sensitivy among people regarding that image of the toddler is high and yet they made fun of it
Some of the posts here are astonishing. Surely you can't really be that damn dense, can you?
Sure. Many did exactly that. I don't think you're understanding the point of this satire or any satire in general.
Maninthemirror
Banned
So you would ok for a publication of a falling victim on 9/11 to be used as satire near 2001?
They aren't poking at anyone's pain or making fun of it. You aren't understanding the point being made by the cartoons at all.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I can't think of any really good satire that takes into considering the feelings of others when making a point or pointing something out. Can you?
What exactly would that be used for as satire? Give me an example and I'll give you an answer.
Cause all I see you do on GAF is go to extreme examples to try to defend your point with no middle ground. Like when you said I supported the taliban and killing kids because I disagreed with your view point.
brainchild
Banned
Not that I'm aware of, but I can't imagine they'd be overly thrilled with it. Maybe some would, who knows.
I just know that with the death of a loved one, even well-intended statements can be too much to handle if they're too humorous in nature, or too on the nose, as it may bring up feelings of bitterness.
BarringGaffner
Member
Maninthemirror
Banned
Would you be ok with a publication satirizing TSA security with a cartoon of a falling victim from the world trade centers ?
Where's the satire in that though? If there is a valid message being made I could digest it regardless of it being in bad taste.
Maninthemirror
Banned
See above your post
I can't even build a coherent connection between that image and the TSA. What point is it making?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Good question
I'm not seeing it.
TSA was established after 9/11 so I'd just see that as dumb and in bad taste.
Maninthemirror
Banned
That's not what I asked. If a publication made a satire of TSA using a falling victim from the World Trade Center would you be ok with that satire ?
And yes people who are fine with this will sweep this question under the rug and say they can't see it or can't imagine it. Typical ignoring the question
You're maybe forgetting to make the point that satire would be making. It's kinda required to be satire.
There's no satire there, no message, no point. it wouldn't be satire.
brainchild
Banned
This is bringing underlying issues to light, not poking fun of the baby. You do understand this, right?
Exactly this
It's not satire, I understand you're trying to draw an example, but you're going to have to do better. For the sake of this line of argument.
I can't answer your question unless you tell me what the point they're trying to make is. Your inability or unwillingness to address this is precisely why I keep saying you don't understand this issue.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
No because the point being made is stupid and the connection between the two events are nothing.
If you wanted to compare a dude jumping off the twin towers to the thousands of innocent deaths in Iraq, you would have a point. Would people in America be pissed? Yea, but that's what satire does and it's showing a harsh but valid parallel.
There, I just made your argument for you.
You're asking people to respond to a satirical situation without explaining the satire. Think about what you're asking, :lol.
Maninthemirror
Banned
But they are making a point that airport security is so lax and should be taken care of for safety of fliers and using the victim falling from the towers as a ploy for the satire piece. Of course you would find it offensive like I will but it's idiotic to use a victim of 9/11 as a ploy for satire yet for you it's fine to use a specific known victim of the refugee crisis as a ploy for migrant issue in Europe . Hypocrisy
BarringGaffner
Member
Maybe the US gov't/military grabbing their file on Iraq Invasion before the person falling hits the pavement?
.
..
Comics are hard.
brainchild
Banned
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I love how you think people are just sweeping the question under the rug because you made a bad analogy and don't realize that there isn't a logical connection between the TSA and 9/11 like there is in the situation in this cartoon.
I think good satire comes from actually caring and being sensitive to people's pain. Colbert was pretty good about it.
I'm pretty sure that the problem is he doesn't understand the point being made in the Hebdo cartoons.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Well if you can't get it through your head then I can explain that for the families of the victim this is offensive even if the point is about Europe. That is the point why people are offended
that would be great...a few years after the fact. Remember it took a while to even get to Afghanistan, and most people bought the bullshit story. Come on. admit it, you bought the lie.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Oh I do it's about Europe and it's migrant crisis, what I don't agree and am offended they used the toddler as a ploy offending his family and million others
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