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[Prodigal Son]

More martyrs, that's what we need to improve race relations.

We'll just let the minority bodies pile up and hope it convinces white american and your nazi friends to take it easier on us

thank you so fucking much

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

 

[Frozenprince]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

There is no god damn nuance to this situation, how many times you need to hear this shit before you stop trying to virtue signal?

These. People. Are. All. Literally. Nazis.

Not goodwins law nazis, not "you're just labeling these people nazis" nazis.

Fucking full bore "seig heil" goosestepping ass nazis.

 

[MaximumSpider]

Kill all the nazis

.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

Again other countries have stamped it out and it wasn't through letting them march and cry out death to all non whites.

Also you talk about conversation and echo chambers but you clearly haven't for a second considered you might be wrong, you literally call Canada and Germany and such Social Authoritarians.

 

[ISOM]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

I find it fascinating that people like you think there is a discussion to be had with Nazi's who want to exterminate any non white person. There's no discourse or discussion to be had there. It's being naive and delusional.

 

[sphagnum]

Kill all the nazis

+1

 

[NobleXenon]

Here's the picture of Senator Dean Heller with the Collage Republicans of UNR with the Nazi Peter Cvjetanovic.

 

[Prodigal Son]

There is no god damn nuance to this situation, how many times you need to hear this shit before you stop trying to virtue signal?

These. People. Are. All. Literally. Nazis.

Not goodwins law nazis, not "you're just labeling these people nazis" nazis.

Fucking full bore "seig heil" goosestepping ass nazis.

haha who am I virtue signalling to? Most people here probably disagree with me. That doesn't mean what you think it does, dude.

Read my post. I didn't say there was 'nuance' to their existence as nazis. I'm saying there's nuance to the position of free speech. Wanting to encourage discussion doesn't mean I desire or expect every minority to nicely explain to nazis why being a nazi is bad.

I find it fascinating that people like you think there is a discussion to be had with Nazi's who want to exterminate any non white person. There's no discourse or discussion to be had there. It's being naive and delusional.

You know why you think everyone at the protest wants to literally exterminate minorities? Did you guess its because you probably dont fully grasp what your poltical enemies believe. Do you wonder why that is? Might it be because people bubble themselves into ideological echo-chambers where discussion doesn't happen? Maybe that shouldn't be the case?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

Yes. Please continue to lecture the day a person was murdered by an actual NAZI at an actual NAZI RALLY

Fuck out of here with this bullshit. There is no discussion to be had with Nazis or fascists

 

[Slayven]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

Where is the nuance in this? How is not wanting white supremacists kill me creating an echo chamber?

Tell me where is the middle ground to this and that it had validity.

haha who am I virtue signalling to? Most people here probably disagree with me. That doesn't mean what you think it does, dude.

Read my post. I didn't say there was 'nuance' to their existence as nazis. I'm saying there's nuance to the position of free speech. Wanting to encourage discussion doesn't mean I desire or expect every minority to nicely explain to nazis why being a nazi is bad.

A nazi killed a woman today, and you want to validate them. That is fucking sick dude

 

[Kuroi Gogeta]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

Do you really think that these people were never put in positions where they could re-examine their views and have never been told about how genocide is not okay? serious question. Do you think that they have not encountered voices online or in person who specifically have tried to convince them that their views are dangerous?

 

[excelsiorlef]

haha who am I virtue signalling to? Most people here probably disagree with me. That doesn't mean what you think it does, dude.

Read my post. I didn't say there was 'nuance' to their existence as nazis. I'm saying there's nuance to the position of free speech. Wanting to encourage discussion doesn't mean I desire or expect every minority to nicely explain to nazis why being a nazi is bad.

No but you think that's the solution despite literal western world evidence to the contrary.

 

[Slayven]

A dude killed a woman and attempted to kill many more.

But the onus is on the oppressed to hear him out and under stand him, we know what he is, black people been dealing with his type since 1776. We are not the ones that need to be challenged

 

[Elegant Weapon]

There is no god damn nuance to this situation, how many times you need to hear this shit before you stop trying to virtue signal?

These. People. Are. All. Literally. Nazis.

Not goodwins law nazis, not "you're just labeling these people nazis" nazis.

Fucking full bore "seig heil" goosestepping ass nazis.

It's cool, he's black and has nazi friends. He's one of the good ones because he recognizes the nuance of reasonable discussion with people who want to kill us

Dylan Roof had a black friend, too. Roof even told his black friend that he was going to kill a church full of people to incite a race war

But let's hear more of your insightful critiques of the left, prodigal

 

[Prodigal Son]

Do you really think that these people were never put in positions where they could re-examine their views and have never been told about how genocide is not okay? serious question. Do you think that they have not encountered voices online or in person who specifically have tried to convince them that their views are dangerous?

Of course. I'm just saying we should let the process continue. Race relations are better today because ideas of equality and liberty have more or less dominated the marketplace of ideas. I'm saying we should let that process continue and these people will eventually be an increasingly small number. Hate speech laws are a rash solution to a very real problem.

Man you're just trolling now.

Im not. Im trying to do my best to coherently refute a bunch of genuine points of critique coming at me all at once.

 

[ISOM]

You know why you think everyone at the protest wants to literally exterminate minorities? Did you guess its because you probably dont fully grasp what your poltical enemies believe. Do you wonder why that is? Might it be because people bubble themselves into ideological echo-chambers where discussion doesn't happen? Maybe that shouldn't be the case?

Man you're just trolling now.

 

[antonz]

The West Wing ruined political discourse for this generation

In many ways we are at this point because too many on the left embraced an idea that you can talk your way through everything.

We can look back to prior decades where Nazi were faced with being driven out of towns under threat of violence etc. They were not tolerated. Then it gradually slipped in that everyone deserves to be heard and its wrong to deny people the right to speak etc. Of course the Nazi were quick to adopt this argument as well.

 

[Brazil]

Kill all the nazis

And throw them in a mass grave.

 

[sphagnum]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

I can have a discussion with capitalists. And I hate capitalists! I want to overthrow capitalism! But I can still discuss things with them because I know their differences with me are based on economics and how to best allocate resources, what constitutes political freedom and how to best achieve it, how to reduce world poverty, etc. We talk about data and theory and philosophy. I do it in PoliGAF all the time!

Nazis want to kill my friends because they are not white. Nazis want to kill my fiance because she is not white. Nazis want to kill me because I am a "race traitor".

They do not want to talk except to try to convince me to put "national" in front of my "socialism".

 

[Frozenprince]

Of course. I'm just saying we should let the process continue. Race relations are better today because ideas of equality and liberty have more or less dominated the marketplace of ideas. I'm saying we should let that process continue. Hate speech laws are a rash solution to a very real problem.

We literally are in a thread about a march that comprised thousands upon thousands of nazi's from all over the country wherein a woman was killed and 20 others severely injured by a nazi terror attack.

Hate speech laws work, there are minimal hate crimes in countries wherein they exist, the few European countries they exist within have bulwarked against the rise of hyper-nationalism in Europe. Canada has never had issues with hate groups like we do.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

You know why you think everyone at the protest wants to literally exterminate minorities? Did you guess its because you probably dont fully grasp what your poltical enemies believe. Do you wonder why that is? Might it be because people bubble themselves into ideological echo-chambers where discussion doesn't happen? Maybe that shouldn't be the case?

IT 👏 WAS 👏 A 👏 NAZI 👏 RALLY

READ A FUCKING HISTORY TEXTBOOK JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

 

[Slayven]

We literally are in a thread about a march that comprised thousands upon thousands of nazi's from all over the country wherein a woman was killed and 20 others severely injured by a nazi terror attack.

Where the killer posted Reddit and Pol's greatest hits

But we in an echochamber because we have no tolerance

 

[Gorillaz]

The West Wing ruined political discourse for this generation

As a generation as a whole yea this will be hard to come back from. Shit will be just memes for a long ass time.

 

[Davide]

There's less excuse for racists and Nazis than ever with the internet and media.

 

[Prodigal Son]

We literally are in a thread about a march that comprised thousands upon thousands of nazi's from all over the country wherein a woman was killed and 20 others severely injured by a nazi terror attack.

Okay? So because this happened you want to say that people with terrible ideas shouldn't be allowed to ever assemble or engage in discussion with someone?

Its not just saying you somehow have the onus to talk with Nazis. I still want the right to debate them and dissuade them from their perspective. People who want to actually make a difference cant do that if they're prohibited from even speaking their shitty views.

 

[LumpOfCole]

Someone should secretly replace all public Confederate flags with USA flags extremely late at night. Maybe replace all public Confederate statues with Lincoln statues or Statues of Liberty replicas as well.

 

[Syder]

I find it fascinating that there's a portion of the left that genuinely is opposed to any and all discussion.

The culture your ideas create don't help. When America doesnt engage with each other, you create echochambers. Echochambers are great for fueling extremist ideology. Ideologies like what encourage these people to be violent and hateful. Hell, im black. Im not asking black guys to walk up and have a cup of tea with richard spencer. There's obviously more nuance to the position that you dont currently seem inclined to consider.

"tHeRe'S oBvIoUsLy MoRe NuAnCe To ThE PoSiTiOn"

 

[D i Z]

And there goes the context again. Right out of the ballpark. UN-BE-LIEV-A-BLE.

Could I have been any clearer in my original post in saying TWICE that I was personally of the persuasion that force is probably going to be a necessary tool in fighting these fuckers?

The context is the same. You can't change that. Your need to argue and (you actually questioned what I do in life against this shit over here??????) with me when you aren't even involved is juvenile.

The entire point of my post was merely expressing my dismay at how readily people cast-aside and marginalise potential political allies (WHO SHARE THE SAME FUCKING CONTEMPT FOR WHITE SUPREMACISTS AS YOU DO) by resorting to shitty strawmen arguments and false labels rather than convincing them... a) what your strategy is and b) why it is the best course of action.

You obviously don't share that contempt with me. The only one who is applying false labels is you with you insistence of "ally". Before today, allies didn't give a fuck. Your concepts of ally-ship are self serving and self defeating if you haven't been paying attention. But some white folks got into it today. So now we're allies again? foh. The only thing that has changed is that you're confused and talking about a land you don't understand.

In a crisis people need to feel like soldiers, not marginalised victims, and whether it is at the ballot box or in the trenches of a bitter street protest, the more soldiers you have with you, the better.

You ain't no solider. Did your uncle tell you about how this happened in the 70's in England too? I was alive for that. But keep telling me how I should feel, how I should protest and how I handle this mess. And I'll keep telling you to take a running leap....
You don't know shit.

 

[Frozenprince]

Okay? So because this happened you want to say that people with terrible ideas shouldn't be allowed to ever assemble or engage in discussion with someone?

Its not just saying you somehow have the onus to talk with Nazis. I still want the right to debate them and dissuade them from their perspective. People who want to actually make a difference cant do that if they're prohibited from even speaking their shitty views.

Germany.

Where nazi's came from.

Has no nazi groups, or parties, or assemblies or politicians or public personae of any note or clout. I'm sure some exist, underground, and hide it.

But they have no influence and, this is important.

Cannot congregate to kill people.

These. Laws. Work. And magically, it didn't take a rousing debate about my humanity to do so!

 

[Prodigal Son]

IT �� WAS �� A �� NAZI �� RALLY

READ A FUCKING HISTORY TEXTBOOK JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

Relax. This is what im talking about. Its not healthy to have this sort of reaction to a very minor difference of perspective. Everyone here hates nazism. Some of us have differing ideals about what free speech represents. That should be a conversation we can have.

Germany.



These. Laws. Work. And magically, it didn't take a rousing debate about my humanity to do so!

If you're congregating to kill people, this isnt a conversation about free speech.

x

So just hypothetically. How would you feel about a nazi protest where there werent any immediate acts of violence? Can that not exist either? Is the idea here that because this protest was violent that all nazi protests can no longer exist? Do we consistently apply that idea when our side's protest get out of line? Maybe we shouldn't rashly pass laws that could so easily be turned on a dime against us with someone like Trump behind the wheel?

 

[Slayven]

Okay? So because this happened you want to say that people with terrible ideas shouldn't be allowed to ever assemble or engage in discussion with someone?

Its not just saying you somehow have the onus to talk with Nazis. I still want the right to debate them and dissuade them from their perspective. People who want to actually make a difference cant do that if they're prohibited from even speaking their shitty views.

 

[AYF 001]

Of course. I'm just saying we should let the process continue. Race relations are better today because ideas of equality and liberty have more or less dominated the marketplace of ideas. I'm saying we should let that process continue. Hate speech laws are a rash solution to a very real problem.

Pretty sure they can have plenty of time to reconsider their ideas in prison. They even have visitor hours so you can talk to them rationally behind a glass barrier that prevents them from beating you.

Of course that depends on the US prison system not being garbage, but countries that have dealt with fascist occupation seem to be headed in the right direction, though I'd say they never dug deep enough in their rebuilding.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Okay? So because this happened you want to say that people with terrible ideas shouldn't be allowed to ever assemble or engage in discussion with someone?

Its not just saying you somehow have the onus to talk with Nazis. I still want the right to debate them and dissuade them from their perspective. People who want to actually make a difference cant do that if they're prohibited from even speaking their shitty views.

and here we have in its natural habitat, a moderate! Don't make sudden movements kids, you might scare them off! Notice how they lecture people over needing to reason with and debate people who want to kill anyone not white.

Notice the subtle holier than thou attitude. It's the defining feature

Relax. This is what im talking about. Its not healthy to have this sort of reaction to a very minor difference of perspective. Everyone here hates nazism. Some of us have differing ideals about what free speech represents. That should be a conversation we can have.

It's the most healthy reaction to NAZIS

holy shit you're either trolling or thick as fuck.

 

[Frozenprince]

If you're congregating to kill people, this isnt a conversation about free speech.

If you're advocating to kill people, it's not a conversation about free speech either.

1 = 1

 

[excelsiorlef]

You know why you think everyone at the protest wants to literally exterminate minorities? Did you guess its because you probably dont fully grasp what your poltical enemies believe. Do you wonder why that is? Might it be because people bubble themselves into ideological echo-chambers where discussion doesn't happen? Maybe that shouldn't be the case?

It was a Nazi rally...

Like an actual Nazi rally.

 

[mlclmtckr]

We arent in an improved state of race relations today because of nazi punching.

No, we are in an improved state of racial relations because we went to Europe and shot the Nazis in their fucking faces

Maybe you should tell all of the victims of Nazi Germany that they should have worked harder in the ridiculous self serving lib fantasy known as 'the marketplace of ideas'

Your friends fucking suck and you're a loser for hanging out with them

 

[prepaidtacosalad]

Self criticism is a good thing, now put it into action.

What's the best way for me to help

 

[Sou Da]

Of course. I'm just saying we should let the process continue. Race relations are better today because ideas of equality and liberty have more or less dominated the marketplace of ideas. I'm saying we should let that process continue and these people will eventually be an increasingly small number. Hate speech laws are a rash solution to a very real problem.



Im not. Im trying to do my best to coherently refute a bunch of genuine points of critique coming at me all at once.

You can really smell the Rubin Report here. At best you're incredibly complacent because you haven't been directly affected, at worst:

 

[Joeku]

Relax. This is what im talking about. Its not healthy to have this sort of reaction to a very minor difference of perspective. Everyone here hates nazism. Some of us have differing ideals about what free speech represents. That should be a conversation we can have.

Are you motherfucking literally having a "let's sit down and discuss our differences" fit right now? Seriously, right now? Fucking really?

 

[Air]

Relax. This is what im talking about. Its not healthy to have this sort of reaction to a very minor difference of perspective. Everyone here hates nazism. Some of us have differing ideals about what free speech represents. That should be a conversation we can have.



If you're congregating to kill people, this isnt a conversation about free speech.

Your right to free speech ends when you're part of a movement that wants to eradicate populations of people.

There's a time and place to want to discuss opposing viewpoints with people, but you can't do that in good faith when someone can't even see you as a human.

 

[Beefy]

A dude killed a woman and attempted to kill many more.

But the onus is on the oppressed to hear him out and under stand him, we know what he is, black people been dealing with his type since 1776. We are not the ones that need to be challenged

We got to talk to them fam , get them to see the light and join the right side. Even if the dude is calling us a nigger etc we got to stay calm and educate

Spoiler

fuck that, hit the nazi

 

[Hazanko]

I'm not American so hate speech laws and arrests seem the obvious solution. Not going to lie, some of these posts piss me off but it's your country. If you want to give this scum the rights to do this shit well it's your mess to clean up.

 

[Kai Dracon]

You know, the cliche time travel story is always about someone going back in time to assassinate Hitler and stop World War II.

But it's clear now that the much more realistic scenario is someone going back in time to have an earnest conversation with Hitler about his views and try to see where he's coming from, in an effort to promote a more slow and cautious form of sociopolitical evolution.

 

[Kickz]

Is that Joey Salads?

Yeah it is, saw him mentioned in the tweets of the pic

 

[norinrad]

I'm guessing some of these people will be showing up for work on Monday? Put their pictures near every coffee machine so everyone at work knows how they spent their weekend.

 

[Jakten]

Relax. This is what im talking about. Its not healthy to have this sort of reaction to a very minor difference of perspective. Everyone here hates nazism. Some of us have differing ideals about what free speech represents. That should be a conversation we can have.



If you're congregating to kill people, this isnt a conversation about free speech.

Please have a conversation, I'm going to keep saying this without providing any meaningful input and distracting from the actual discussion people were already having because I don't want to hear about it. Converse though but please, just have a conversation.

A free speech conversation about conversing, you know? No substance just shooting the shit. We can find peace by running every conversation into the ground by repeating ourselves.

 

[Frozenprince]

Fascist parties didn't just gain prominence and clout in Germany, in America the Silver Legion had over 15,000 registered members at it's height.

Then, FDR, shrewdly, realized "holy shit these people are fucking terrifying", his generals realized they were radicalizing segments of the population.

So they were outlawed and prosecuted.

Surprise, no more fascist party in the US!

 

[Slayven]

So just hypothetically. How would you feel about a nazi protest where there werent any immediate acts of violence? Can that not exist either? Is the idea here that because this protest was violent that all nazi protests can no longer exist? Do we consistently apply that idea when our side's protest get out of line? Maybe we shouldn't rashly pass laws that could so easily be turned on a dime against us with someone like Trump behind the wheel?

We just had real nazi protest, we don't have to play thought experiments. 3 people are dead because of it

 

[excelsiorlef]

Relax. This is what im talking about. Its not healthy to have this sort of reaction to a very minor difference of perspective. Everyone here hates nazism. Some of us have differing ideals about what free speech represents. That should be a conversation we can have.

We're not having minor difference of perspective.

You're outright rejecting proven solutions (including the country where Nazism originated) as Social Authoritarianism while arguing that Nazis should be allowed to march...

That's not a minor difference of perspective... that's literally the complete opposite perspective.

 

[WiiredShawn]

Of course. I'm just saying we should let the process continue. Race relations are better today because ideas of equality and liberty have more or less dominated the marketplace of ideas. I'm saying we should let that process continue and these people will eventually be an increasingly small number. Hate speech laws are a rash solution to a very real problem.
.

I'm sorry, but your continued insistence on this "marketplace of ideas" thing is not only historically naive, but insulting to the many, many people in American history who were injured, jailed or killed in fighting for civil rights. Discussion and speeches and debate are important tools for progression, but pretending like those will miraculously solve problems is just as naive as Republicans' zealous belief in the "free market".

The most humane ideas do not necessarily, or even easily, dominate. If that were remotely true, America would have ended slavery long before 1863. Progress was fought for and there are people, like nazis, who will just as readily fight to destroy progress.