Could be they have a lot of garbage throwaway degrees that don't even teach you anything or learn anything. I know the US has a lot of these type of degrees. Watching college football or basketball and finding out some players are majoring in real estate management or something like that which is something we don't have in Canada or at least nothing really similar was at my University.
China to phase out college majors with a bleak employment outlook
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The problem with college education in this country is the cost. The criticism of liberal arts and liberal arts majors is a pointless and harmful distraction. We only view these degrees as having "less value" because we have allowed the discussion on higher education to shift to questions of economic value.
Economic value/production is not the point of higher education and it never should be. Admittedly, this is the reality of the system we are now working with. But I think it is far more important that we work on changing that reality rather than trying to fix the symptoms of a more obvious problem.
Economic value/production is not the point of higher education and it never should be. Admittedly, this is the reality of the system we are now working with. But I think it is far more important that we work on changing that reality rather than trying to fix the symptoms of a more obvious problem.
Lasthope106
Member
Some of the most "cultured" people I've met over my life have been people with backgrounds in STEM fields. For example a physicist who was a theater actor, and electrical engineering student who was an artist, and the list just goes on and on.
Most of the so-called liberal arts people I've ever met were people who made a disservice to their supposedly higher critical thinking training that a liberal arts education provides. Getting plastered drunk 5+ times per week, procrastinating and knowing shit about their classes yet still Acing them.
I put more effort in my general education classes as an engineering student that what 90+% of the people in those majors did.
Most of the so-called liberal arts people I've ever met were people who made a disservice to their supposedly higher critical thinking training that a liberal arts education provides. Getting plastered drunk 5+ times per week, procrastinating and knowing shit about their classes yet still Acing them.
I put more effort in my general education classes as an engineering student that what 90+% of the people in those majors did.
Considering the advances in culture/technology, college degrees are more or less mandatory for the more lucrative careers. In this case, higher education really stops being "higher education" and should just be called "education".
A noble goal, I admit, but we have enough trouble as it is just amending/fixing the current educational system. What you're proposing is a fundamental change in the culture of our society and possibly all first world societies all over the Earth. Something like this is not only beyond the scope of a message board, but probably beyond the capabilities of any single institution in existence.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I was just told by a Korean university dean that he was quite proud of their "real estate science" course.
"Postmodernism" isn't a bullshit topic to study. I think that people who don't understand the postmodern shift end up being angry about the world because they can't move past the simple allure of Modernism.
I laughed at this. I can't tell if you're serious or not but either way, this post is funny.
I do not mean to suggest our science and engineering programs are not important or not a viable means of creating a more intelligent, experienced workforce. I just don't believe college needs to serve this one purpose exclusively.
To follow up on that line of thinking, separating the two and utilizing a larger system of "trade" schools that focus on practical skills could be helpful here. If I'm not mistaken (and I very well may be), there are similar arrangements in some countries overseas.
Most countries in Europe already offer higher education to their citizens for very low costs. The cultural perception of education I alluded to may not be there in these cases, and may be idealized, but they are not facing the same problems as we are in the US, for the most part.
Lamel
Banned
Yeah the pre reqs, 2 semesters of Bio, 2 of Physics, 2 of chemistry, 2 of Organic chemistry and maybe even 2 of Calculus.
Real easy.
It's been that way for a long time lol. HK is an example already.
Certainly explains why Chinese music nowadays is mostly trash.
God I miss the old days.
what does university education have to do with a country's music scene
Music was a big part of Chinese culture.
Nowadays, Chinese students are encouraged to pursue jobs with financial stability which leaves out courses like music, arts and etc.
You can bet courses like Commerce, finance, Engineering and etc will be the most popular University Courses in China. It's certainly the case in Hong Kong.
maybe it's different in china, but typically everywhere else successful musicians don't obtain their skills through university
CornBurrito
Member
Never said it was easy, just that it is possible to do so while not majoring in one of those fields. You CAN be a music major and fulfill the med-school prereqs. It has been done many times before.
ThisWreckage
Banned
This is a terrible idea. Don't they realize that instituting such a policy will create job shortages in more lucrative fields? It's also silly because it shows a society that doesn't appreciate certain fields just because those fields don't lead to many job opportunities.
I think that the thing about most arts degrees that bother me the most. Most can't be taught in a classroom. Most are either natural born talent or hardcore practice and dedication.
Most of the awesome musicians I know are not music majors. The best drawers/painters I know are not art majors. They were awesome painters and musicians even before they went to college.
I can understand a few classes in it but a whole 4 years? WTF.
But statistics only go so far in basing something like that. Nothing in this current state is 100% employable.
Not saying that you said that but there's others that do believe that. All I'm saying is that chances increase/decrease over time.
This, I feel, is definitely true. The art building in my college showcases a lot of student work, when I see the sketches all I can think is "I knew a girl in high school who could draw better than this, I used to be able to draw better than this."
That's fine arts, and there is value in learning about it. There are techniques you can learn to improve your work, and you have to know what's been done to be able to do something new.
Liberal arts degrees are all about debating and writing skills, so even if they don't get a job related to their major, they often end up with some sort of communications role in a company eventually due to their writing skills.
Nothing in any state is 100% employable. But certain degrees in all states are, on average, going to be more employable than others, which is all that matters in terms of 'employability', I'm not sure what your point is really.
SiteSeer
Member
what is that even supposed to mean?
My point is that there are people that got degrees in "more employable fields" that can't find jobs so the line of thinking of taking something for the sole purpose of getting a job and nothing more is flawed in my opinion due to that and other reasons as well.
I was never talking about "employability" in itself. I was more so saying why some shouldn't push it as much as they do.
aronnov reborn
Banned
maybe if we did that half of OWS wouldn't exist.. all those upset theater majors.. and liberal art degrees wanting their fair share.
Well no, because science degrees presumably have a higher employability % than art degrees so taking a science degree would increase your chance of getting employed. It's not about 'guaranteed' employment, more about increasing your chances. Not to mention that the pay scale when employed for an engineer say is likely to be a lot higher than someone who did medieval art analysis for example.
It's a joke.
Yeah exactly. I never said that that isn't true.
However, like I said before, various people in various areas are having a hard time finding jobs so if you are going to school just for that purpose alone, you may be disappointed when you get out.
opticalmace
Member
My friend graduated from chemistry and got a job in his field not long after. Maybe it's the exception, not the rule, though. Also could be different here in Canada?
Lamel
Banned
I realized what you meant. I was saying you'd be devoting a hell of a lot of time to the sciences; so the degree title doesn't really even matter for med school...they won't take in a music major who doesn't know jack shit about the sciences.
It's not difficult per say. But you have to admit you have to devote a lot of time to the subjects, they are quite demanding at times. So the content of the course may not be difficult, but managing to pass (let alone get an A) according to whatever the requirements are for the course can be very stressful.
For example, I am currently in Biology 101, and though I've done it before and know the material quite well, squeezing in 11 chapters per exam was quite the challenge.
Chaser said:
this is also true. basically university education has become mandatory, yet we still treat it as an option along with the price. we should change the structure of our education. i still think my idea on the last page was a good one; two years of community college type education that would sort be sort of like an extension of high school where your goal is to determine your course of study and fulfill prerequesites, and then two years at a university somewhere focusing only on your degree.
Looking back, i wish i had done that to be honest. would have saved me alot of money and unhappiness.
Perhaps he includes music schools, academies etc.
Still, to have a really great music culture, you need more than musicians. People who can write about music, are able to teach about music, explain it etc.
Besides, the world of music doesn't only consist of Rihanna and co., who can fill up a stadium.
Anyway, China has done this more or less for years, if not decades. They are known for limiting majors. But does this help the country to progress economically? I don't know. I only know that the work field changes very fast. In my country we had a shortage of teachers, then there's a time of having too many of time, now there's "suddenly" a shortage of teachers again, even considering that there are less kids around.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that I've heard that even with the current high unemployment numbers there are many technical job openings because employers can't find qualified candidates. If something similar is happening in China then this isn't a half bad idea.
I dunno, I got a liberal arts degree. I majored in Political Science with a minor in Public Health. I had intentions, back in the day, to go to law school. Then I learned law is boring.
I really did like healthcare though, but I was working full-time while going to school full time and I was ready to move along. So I went and competed for internships and nabbed those in various health systems as a admin. I went ahead one summer and got my CNA license in order to get practical work experience in the industry, which consequently got me a full-time job in a hospital. Finally, I ended up competing and nabbing a preceptor for my nursing home license and now I work as the facility admin making damn fine money.
Market your damn degree, talk about its high points, and then try. And keep trying. And if anyone else tells you that you simply can't, you tell them to go fuck themselves.
But most of all, you keep trying. Keep plugging away. Period.
I really did like healthcare though, but I was working full-time while going to school full time and I was ready to move along. So I went and competed for internships and nabbed those in various health systems as a admin. I went ahead one summer and got my CNA license in order to get practical work experience in the industry, which consequently got me a full-time job in a hospital. Finally, I ended up competing and nabbing a preceptor for my nursing home license and now I work as the facility admin making damn fine money.
Market your damn degree, talk about its high points, and then try. And keep trying. And if anyone else tells you that you simply can't, you tell them to go fuck themselves.
But most of all, you keep trying. Keep plugging away. Period.
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