• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

China warns Trump against abandoning Paris climate agreement

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lime

Member
When China is seen as more progressive than the US on climate change and environmental policy, you dun goofed America.

The US has never been progressive on climate change and environmental policy. In fact it has pushed back against progressive politics for the last couple of decades up until recently when they at least helped push through the Paris accord.
 

Spectone

Member
Is China trying to bait Trump?

If he reverses course on this, then that would be viewed as capitulation to China.

If he abandons the Paris climate agreement, that would negatively affect the relationship that the United States has with its allies.

His allies don't think he is stable anyway.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
"Look, like I said before, the Chinese created this hoax to make us less competitive, ok? They're saying we have to stay in the Paris protocol, we have to stay, or else the world will melt. That's what they said! Can you believe it? China! Not France or Germany, Chine-a! And people said I was crazy or lying when I said it was the Chinese who made all of this up. This is the proof right there folks, and we're getting out of the Paris climate deal, I guarantee it. I guarantee it. We're getting out."

That's more or less how it will go.
 
"Look, like I said before, the Chinese created this hoax to make us less competitive, ok? They're saying we have to stay in the Paris protocol, we have to stay, or else the world will melt. That's what they said! Can you believe it? China! Not France or Germany, Chine-a! And people said I was crazy or lying when I said it was the Chinese who made all of this up. This is the proof right there folks, and we're getting out of the Paris climate deal, I guarantee it. I guarantee it. We're getting out."

That's more or less how it will go.

Looking at this and other related threads I would say he panders to the GAF demographics.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
The privilege in "America is becoming a bad guy" shown here is astounding.

In a lot of places around the world, the US has never been a good guy, the US has been just as guilty as China and Russia of being a bad guy, it's delusional to think otherwise.
 

hirokazu

Member
It doesn't seem right for the rest of the world to pull extra weight to make up for an uncooperative US. Perhaps the best solution is economic sanctions against countries who don't contribute to reducing emissions.

Of course that'd further Trump's claim that climate change is a hoax, but if that's what it takes for a Trump-led US to agree...
 

Bubaer

Member
The privilege in "America is becoming a bad guy" shown here is astounding.

In a lot of places around the world, the US has never been a good guy, the US has been just as guilty as China and Russia of being a bad guy, it's delusional to think otherwise.

There seems to be a LOT of that going on right now, people acting like the USA was the garden of eden or something for the last few years :/
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Today, we're actually hoping Russia can control the POTUS.
It's a weird world.
 

Lime

Member
There seems to be a LOT of that going on right now, people acting like the USA was the garden of eden or something for the last few years :/

Hmm, I mean, I guess a lot of things will look like Garden of Eden when compared to the fascism that will be installed in January next year.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
There seems to be a LOT of that going on right now, people acting like the USA was the garden of eden or something for the last few years :/

People were pleased the USA was making positive progression. And now all of that is going to be undone.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
People were pleased the USA was making positive progression. And now all of that is going to be undone.

America is one of the worst violators of human rights every year, yes Trump is significantly worse, but let's not pretend America was ever in the "good guy" side.
 

Wollan

Member
So if China produces enough electricity from renewables to power all of France and Germany combined, then why aren't Germany and France 100% renewable energy yet?
Germany is getting there.
Germany's renewable energy sector is among the most innovative and successful worldwide. Net-generation from renewable energy sources in the German electricity sector has increased from 6.3% in 2000 to about 30% in 2014.[1][2] For the first time ever, wind, biogas, and solar combined accounted for a larger portion of net electricity production than brown coal in the first half of 2014.[3] On Sunday 15 May 2016 at 14:00 hours, renewables supplied nearly all of domestic electricity demand.[4]

While peak-generation from combined wind and solar reached a previous all-time high of 74% in April 2014,[5] wind power saw its best day ever on December 12, 2014, generating 562 GWh.[6] Germany has been called "the world's first major renewable energy economy".[7][8]

More than 23,000 wind turbines and 1.4 million solar PV systems are distributed all over the country's area of 357,000 square kilometers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany
 

BeeDog

Member
Feels like people are focusing too much on China's (and Russia's) potential hypocricy and obfuscation instead of the point that China is trying to hammer into Trump. Regardless of how well or badly China handles it, Trump continuing with this stance is disastrous for everyone, simple as that. So China's words are extremely important despite the underlying intent.
 

StayDead

Member
China doesn't give a fuck about the environment. Seems like a power play to try to force him to abandon it tbh.

Citation needed? Every piece of evidence I've seen over the past 5 years prove that they do.

They're one of if not the biggest investor in green energy on the planet.
 
That only says that China has it really bad when it comes to pollution right now. This is a direct result of them going through their industrial revolution. This is different from them not caring. If they didn't care, why are they the world's leader when it comes to bringing renewable energy sources online? Why are they investing into renewable energy at 2-3x the amount and pace of the United States?

Edit:
I'm actually writing a paper on this particular topic for a class in my MBA program!
 
You know, it's times like this I bet Trump is really feeling the whole weight of the world on his shoulders. It's one thing to tweet little conspiracy theories about China. It's another thing entirely to have the actual country of China call you out.
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
What sort of upside down world are we living in when it's China telling the US to care about the environment?
 

Aselith

Member
That only says that China has it really bad when it comes to pollution right now. This is a direct result of them going through their industrial revolution. This is different from them not caring.

Well if they are that's great. However they have the benefit of having access to the technology that other countries utilized to reduce their pollution as they went through their own industrial revolutions. So I guess the question is are they using existing technologies to reduce their footprint? It doesn't appear so but educate me if I'm wrong.
 
This is the reason why they're heavily investing and supporting green energy. It also makes financial sense which doesn't hurt.

If you are leading a tech revolution, countries will go to you to buy tech or products.

Should give China a nice boost I guess.
 
Well if they are that's great. However they have the benefit of having access to the technology that other countries utilized to reduce their pollution as they went through their own industrial revolutions. So I guess the question is are they using existing technologies to reduce their footprint? It doesn't appear so but educate me if I'm wrong.
Their overall footprint is getting larger as they number of people in China begin to earn decent wages and live middle class lifestyles increases. Their government recognizes this and is taking proactive steps to ensure they peak coal usage by 2020 and are investing more into renewable tech than any other country on the planet.
Source 1: http://energypost.eu/chinas-electricity-mix-changing-fast-co2-emissions-may-peaked/

China installed a world record of 32.5 gigawatts (GW) of wind power last year, and a world record 18.3 GW of solar power, according to official figures from the National Bureau of Statistics of China on 29 February. Coal consumption fell 3.7%, nuclear power grew 30% and natural gas 3.3%. These trends mark a rapid diversification of China’s electricity generation capacity with reduced dominance of coal. Some even believe China’s CO2-emissions have peaked – 15 years before the 2030 target.

Source 2: https://www.cigionline.org/sites/default/files/fixing_climate_governance_policy_brief_no6_0.pdf

Edit:
In 2015, the United States invested about $44 billion into renewable energy/tech. China was close to $300 billion!
 

dabig2

Member
The US has never been progressive on climate change and environmental policy. In fact it has pushed back against progressive politics for the last couple of decades up until recently when they at least helped push through the Paris accord.

True. The USA has ALWAYS been that evil machiavellian bad guy when it comes to climate change/environmental progress. It's a miracle Ralph Nader and company even got Nixon to sign the EPA into law back in the 70s before the neocons rose to power or else we and the world would be even more fucked than we are now (and of course the Republicans in power want to gut that as much as they can).

No, the US is and always has been the bad guy in this story. The Obama years, while good for progress concerning this issue, is only a brief period of time.
 
True. The USA has ALWAYS been that evil machiavellian bad guy when it comes to climate change/environmental progress. It's a miracle Ralph Nader and company even got Nixon to sign the EPA into law back in the 70s before the neocons rose to power or else we and the world would be even more fucked than we are now (and of course the Republicans in power want to gut that as much as they can).

No, the US is and always has been the bad guy in this story. The Obama years, while good for progress concerning this issue, is only a brief period of time.
the catalatyc converters to reduce lethal and poisonous emission was also heavily pushed by us companies and government.

however, the US really lacked in the last 2 to 3 decades.
 

Kaleinc

Banned
Funny how in China they anticipate any summit of world leaders so that shit-pumping into the air would stop for a day or two in the area and breathing without exhaling your lungs is possible.

Welcome to the real world

36EKBa4.jpg

Clear sunny day
 
meanwhile, the annual carbon emission worldwide is on the same level for three years in the row while the worldwide economy is growinng.
it really looks like the co2 emission peaked and the reduction of it is just another step. china is doing its part by forcing it even more to be green. the trump administration should not neglect that. tbh, they cant because solar panels are even cheaper nowadays than fuel.
but be even more ballsy and make a competition out of it.
https://www.ft.com/content/7e3935ac-a9d4-11e6-a0bb-97f42551dbf4
 
The pushback against climate change inside US is something I just dont understand. Lobbying by oil firms I get, so I get politicians saying dumb things because their paymasters tell them to.

Why are common people against it? Like what is the downside here. Its basically this -

4254681996_27b1ed7ff0.jpg


in reality.

Like what are your negatives? At least with creationism I can understand the religious pushback.
 

BSsBrolly

Banned
The pushback against climate change inside US is something I just dont understand. Lobbying by oil firms I get, so I get politicians saying dumb things because their paymasters tell them to.

Why are common people against it? Like what is the downside here. Its basically this -

4254681996_27b1ed7ff0.jpg


in reality.

Like what are your negatives? At least with creationism I can understand the religious pushback.

People with jobs in oil and coal. Plus the lobbying you mentioned.
 

BSsBrolly

Banned
Yeah but those people are a tiny tiny tiiiiiiny fraction of your country. And yet I have seen polls that show somewhere from 1/3 to half the country doesnt believe in it. That is bonkers.

Yes but they are enough to sway certain states in our elections, unfortunately. The fact that 1/3 of this country doesn't believe is a testament as to how effective right wing media is.
 

Lime

Member
People with jobs in oil and coal. Plus the lobbying you mentioned.

Yeah but those people are a tiny tiny tiiiiiiny fraction of your country. And yet I have seen polls that show somewhere from 1/3 to half the country doesnt believe in it. That is bonkers.

The solution to global warming is inherently "anti-growth" or whatever, i.e. very much against the fundamental American ideology of unrestrained capitalism, mass consumption, and small government. The solution to global warming is the anti-thesis to US society.

Global warming and climate change provides challenges that a capitalist society to the extent that the US is cannot meet in its past and present form. Infrastructure, consumerism, growth, materialism, small government, etc. are all so ingrained into the fabric of what it means to "American" that I don't see how the US would ever be able to change

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've given up after 20 years of following the country's developments. The country is one of the richest in the world and cannot even provide basic healthcare for its citizens, fix its gun laws, or move sufficiently on reducing carbon emissions.
 
Whoa whoa whoa, North Korea has joined the agreement? That something i really didn't expect.

likely they don't want to garner attention

I mean all these countries are signing it and it is for a cause that benefits every single person on this planet

they don't want to be one of those guys that want to be a sore annoyance

doesn't excuse other things but at least it is one less thing on the long list
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom