I mean, Russia did do the whole Crimea thing and the propaganda against LBGT people and all that shit. But yeah, if they wanna push climate treaties, they can go right the fuck ahead. I guess even bad people are smart enough to understand that a fucked world isn't fun to rule over.
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China warns Trump against abandoning Paris climate agreement
- Thread starter Wollan
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I mean, Russia did do the whole Crimea thing and the propaganda against LBGT people and all that shit. But yeah, if they wanna push climate treaties, they can go right the fuck ahead. I guess even bad people are smart enough to understand that a fucked world isn't fun to rule over.
Nikodemos
Member
It's easy to give a shit about the environment after you've experienced being able to walk on the air to and from your office.
Fulminator
Member
Whatever. You continue believing the shit being pumped out of the Kremlin and CPC if you like.
china's emissions per capita are much lower than the US
China also has ~4 times the population of the United States
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Russia is shaky but China has been improving.
Do you have any sources that say China is literally not reducing or not even trying?
Nikodemos
Member
If anything Japan is absolutely dismal for such a high-tech country. Then again, they are also one of the top per-capita producers of waste in the world.
South Korea too.
PdotMichael
Banned
He just called everything propaganda.
The entire thread is an example of cultural bias.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Turns out AMERICA is the bad guy.
PdotMichael
Banned
Such data screw in favor of countries with large trade deficit like the USA.
A more logical and useful way to rate co2 emissions is by consumption.
WooHooAlex
Member
+ respect.
This is one of the issues we have to push back on the hardest.
This is one of the issues we have to push back on the hardest.
I dont think it is cultural bias. it is the symptom of 'they are the bad guys so they are the bad guys on everything'.
Byakuya769
Member
Ugh. China is going to goad the FUCK out of him.
The per-capita data is skewed because China has such a massive population.
Also, read this. It explains that a decline in coal isn't translating into decline in CO2 emissions. The decline in coal usage is likely because of a weakening in China's GDP growth rate. When that growth rates increases so too would coal use:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/making-sense-of-china-s-drop-in-coal-use/
Fulminator
Member
it's still much better than some of the other countries on the list, but the per capita emissions are surprising, yeah. South Korea emits almost as much per capita as the US, and their population is ~1/6 of the US
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Are there any consequences for the US pulling out of the Paris treaty?
I know, I know, besides the expedited extinction of the human race.
It also a significantly smaller GDP/capita than the US. If China had a GDP/capita that of the US it too would have a massively enlarged emissions per capita footprint. And China continues to grow that footprint in case you were wondering.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Yeah, true. Americans would quickly give a damn if they had to put up with the shit that Chinese citizens do.
Is there any certainty on how much carbon China emits? Maybe I'm missing something but according to this article no one really knows.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-climatechange-insight-idUSKCN0SX0WS20151108
Did things change?
Fulminator
Member
i was just basing it off of the chart that was linked, i don't know much beyond that except for the fact that china is at least trying to improve on the renewable energy front
you can speculate on what if scenarios, but those aren't the facts currently. If you want to use the chart you linked that's fine, but that chart just shows that china is doing better than the us in emissions per capita
Citation needed, as most sources report China CO2 emissions reducing both in 2014 and in 2015.
The problem many NGO's have with countries like Russia and China is that there is no real way to validate the figures these governments release to the UN. GDP numbers have for years been met with a healthy dose of scepticism, and rightly so.
It sounds like you're just picking a type of statistic to suit your own bias. That's fine BTW but I'll go with total emissions that shows China as the world's #1 polluter if it's all the same.
See the Scientific American link above.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Well, yeah, your article even says why coal use would go up: China is not industrialized yet. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to convince people of? That they're lying about investing in solar and wind? That they're secretly burning coal without telling people?
*scratches head*
White Wolf
Member
I just linked an article with this quote
"China's contribution (to the global climate plan in Paris) is based on CO2 emissions but China doesn't publish CO2 emissions," said Glen Peters, senior researcher at the Center for International Climate and Environmental Research in Oslo. "You're left in the wilderness, really."
and then we have
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/03/28/chinas-co2-emissions-might-not-be-falling-study/
Basically no one has a clue what China's emissions are.
Professor Renegade
Banned
Really ironic coming from China. Aren't they still using coal as their primary energy source?
And seemingly wants to focus on green energy
This is scary as shit...i remember when China was the one who was wishy washy and didn't even care about this shit, having major smog in their biggest capital to the point of lung cancer being a frequent occurrence. If they are now trying to push through certain accords, the situation must be more dire than we thought
It feels twice as bad because it was directly against my wishes that the candidate to face off against trump was one of the weakest and least prepared to deal with his brand of politic.
Most of America did not vote for Trump or his ilk. But we've got him.
It feels twice as bad because it was directly against my wishes that the candidate to face off against trump was one of the weakest and least prepared to deal with his brand of politic.
Most of America did not vote for Trump or his ilk. But we've got him.
OK... Why would we not use Per Capita? Don't you think there are reason it was included in the chart? None of these even disprove the other poster's original point about China's investments.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
The same thing they do every time-
"Who cares about what the world thinks?! Mind your own business!!"
PdotMichael
Banned
Like the USA?
Well, one nation is trying to reduce the share of fossil fuel so fast as possible.
Spoiler
It's not the USA
Hey, a nation more populated than North America and Europe together has no right producing more co2 emissions than a 300 million country!
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Per capita is nice but we also have to take into account most of China is really poor. If you took it by wealth, chances are it would mirror USA, Japan, or Canada.
PdotMichael
Banned
It wouldn't because it's one of China's main goals to connect economic growth and renewable energy.
You're the one picking the statistic to go along with your bias!! Why the heck wouldn't we use a per capita basis?
Have you read it? Because that article states that carbon intensity (CO2 emissions per unit GDP) has decreased for 5 years in a row, which means that your theory about the direct correlation to GDP growth rate is flawed at best.
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And the worst estimations for the CO2 emmisions is that they stagnated or very slightly increase while the population and GDP growth rates are much bigger.
That doesn't say that it can't happen in the future that China will be again the bad guy in this area, but for now they are definitely not and the trend is positive.
Maybe the one who should take off the propaganda glasses is you.
Even CICERO calculations have reached this conclusion:
Considering that both GDP and population grew more than that in both years I don't see how one can spin this as a bad thing. Even ignoring the big reduction in coal consumption .
It's like you never met an American before.
China has done more than U.S has done to switch to more renewable energy in recent years.
It's fucking sad when other countries point at China as the big bad country offloading blame as if these western countries don't all use China as the fucking manufacturing plant of the world.
It's fucking sad when other countries point at China as the big bad country offloading blame as if these western countries don't all use China as the fucking manufacturing plant of the world.
Eternal Gamer
Member
Don't worry guys, it will take just one call from Putin to bring US back to reason.
AuthenticM
Member
good guy China
Eh, Putin and Trump may have ties but i doubt Trump cares now. Being president will inflate his over-inflated ego even more, i think.
I really wouldn't be surprised if Trump complains about Putin and Russia at some point for no particular reason.
Though Putin is probably good enough manipulator... but is he good enough? With Trump, all bets are off i think.
the population lives in individual bubbles that group to make an even bigger bubble to separate you from the other bubble and then those two bubbles create an even bigger bubble.
we in bubble city bub.
You can't just ignore this though if you have uncertain data then...
and China doesn't publish CO2 emissions.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I said damn.
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