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[Go_Ly_Dow]

My armchair analysis. Birth rates rocketed post WW2, economies boomed all was good. There were defined roles for both genders, gainful employment and incentives to build something. They couldn't rise forever and once science and tech gave us all a new level of comfort they naturally plateud and began to fall. There's little that can be done about this, especially whilst we're in a period of stagnation/decline depending on the country in terms of personal wealth and the power of money.

Maybe as we approach the mid century if tech/AI/science advances as we hope the trend begins to reverse in some of these countries. People need the right conditions and motivations to start a family and right now we have gradually worsening conditions and less motivations with so many distractions. The power women hold has also skyrocketed across the world and so they have higher expectations which means they're not going to jump into marriage/kids so openly like before.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

You're overanalysing mate. Take away peoples smartphones and birthrates would be back to normal in 1-2 years. I guarantee it.

People are way to distracted by pleasurable stuff these days. Take away those distractions and people will again start to seek meaning in their life through kids. It's a tale as old as time. That's why childless people often regret not having kids with age. It's when the pleasurable distractions become meaningless and hollow.

So at what age do the pleasurable distractions become meaningless and hollow?

 

[JimmyRustler]

I was talking to a couple who both are my friends. They like to travel the world (even have a Instagram page for that) and often take 3-4 overseas trips per year. Its been about 5 years they've been married and all I hear is that they are not ready for kids as it would affect their travel. Recently the girl turned 35 so I thought I would ask them as a friend that they might miss out on life-changing and affirming thing called having children. I myself recently had a girl and I personally have not known a more joyous thing in life.

The answer she gave me was that they have about 6-7 bucket list places to go to still and only after that would they think of having children. Now I get that everyone has their own mindset and priorities but it boggles my mind that people cant see short-term vs long-term. They can always travel again a couple years after the baby, but having a baby will only get exponentially harder from now on as she will be nearing 40 soon. How can one compare traveling with having a baby? I mean sure traveling is great but having a baby is like giving meaning to one's life. Its what we are hard-wired to do, what we are created to do and is the greatest event in one's life.

Money is not an issue with them either. Both earn very well. I just didnt want to see them turn 40, having fulfilled the 'bucket list' of travel and yet lost forever on the greatest bucket list item life can give. But these days I keep seeing people who realize they actually DO want kids until its so late. Then they give it their all- money, efforts, doctors, medicines but that joy keeps eluding. Everything has a time and place but people these days have forgotten that.

Don't get me started on that traveling stuff man... Whenever I come across these avid travellers I can't help but to wonder... Are they doing this for themselves or for the approval they get? Would they do it if there was no Instragram and/or they could not tell anyone about it?

Traveling seems so pointless to me these days. Sometimes you can have a cool experiance, sure, but often it's just very expensive and highly dependant on the weather. Back in the 90s it used to meaning to "see" something. I can see everything on the internet today and most of the time it's more beatuiful there than in real life. The only difference is that I can tell others where I've been.

And yes, I have travelled quite a bit.

 

[Blade2.0]

I think fewer people would be a good thing, tbh.

It would be if we weren't capitalist. You can't have infinite growth if your population doesn't go up.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

having a baby is like giving meaning to one's life. Its what we are hard-wired to do, what we are created to do and is the greatest event in one's life.

For some people, yeah. For other people not so much. Some people regret having children (obviously few speak about it publicly for obvious reasons), some people love being child free.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It would be if we weren't capitalist. You can't have infinite growth if your population doesn't go up.

Yeah, I know that's why it's viewed as a problem. Not enough people making little economic units to prop up the stock market, etc.

But, infinite growth will destroy the planet at some point, so there's that too.

 

[JimmyRustler]

So at what age do the pleasurable distractions become meaningless and hollow?

Depends on the person I guess. Personally it started dawning on me in my early 30s when I started asking myself what I am doing with my life. Eating trash that is created to make you adicted, consuming media that makes you dumber and buying trash that you do not need that is forced upon you. I think that at some point everyone gets there. Some sooner, some later.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For some people, yeah. For other people not so much. Some people regret having children (obviously few speak about it publicly for obvious reasons), some people love being child free.

It's amazing behind closed doors how many parents have kids who didn't even want them. But the wife got pregnant and I guess she and hubby decided to just go with it instead of an abortion. And you never hear this from friends having their first kid, it's always parents saying this about their third or fourth kid. Crazy. If you didn't want to have more kids, just dome up the dick. I'm not a parent, but you'd think having a kid is a life changing decision, yet some parents feel indifferent about pregnancy. It's like being indifferent whether to get a Big Mac or McChicken at McDonalds. Whatever happens happens.

 

[JimmyRustler]

First, your mom didn’t have a choice back then. Would you want to feed your kids soup with beans for 3-4 days now?

And no matter how you slice it - it is much more expensive to raise kids these days.

If I have to, sure. If I ever have kids I'll be sure to make an effort to teach them it's more important what you know and who you have and less what you have.

 

[FunkMiller]

Less is more.

 

[Melon Husk]

It's in our DNA to multiply when times are good and we know that the future generation will have a better standard of living than the current one.
It's not rocket science to figure out what is needed for high birth rates. No housing, no breeding. People who can barely house and feed themselves with their salary are F'd in the head if they think having kids is a good idea. Double the median wage while keeping housing costs constant and I guarantee you there will be a boom in childbirths. The solution is simple, but it's not easy, because that anger 2/3rds of the population in most countries by collapsing the boomer housing ponzi. Politicians can easily destroy the future of their country this way, as it affects the unborn and young who don't vote. That the housing pyramid scheme leads to an inverted population pyramid is just poetry.

 

[Bojji]

I said smartphones are one of the problems, not the only one. I mean, be real man.

I take you... Imagine... I take away your smartphone, I take away your videogames, I take away your internet. What you gonna do? Sit at home all day and read books? Boy would you and your wife would start talking about kids after only a few weeks... and you know it. I has little to do with economy. I'm sure you have enough money to buy food and if not you'd get inventive. Hell, I remember my mom used to make this HUGE bowl of some Balkan soup with beans and we'd eat that shit for 3-4 days with bread. And basic clothing for your kids I'm sure you can afford too. Heck, I remember growing up on second hand clothes until I was a teen. It wasn't pretty but I survived.

Problem is, nobody wants to cut back anymore. You just gotta admit that it's less the problem that you can't afford kids but that you don't want to cut back on your lifestyle. Because that you naturally can't afford no more with kids.

You are suggesting regressing society to year ~1900, yep there wasn't much to do for ordinary people outside work and fuck. Of course all those "little pleasures" (video games, smartphones, netflix etc.) are pointless in grand scheme of things but in reality our lives are pointless too, we don't have any goal outside of reproduction.

Women not being second class citizens anymore (despite what feminists say) also plays huge role, both sexes have more or less equal opportunities in life so many women chase career over having babies. Women are also not forced to relationships anymore.

I'm more into having kid than my woman and I know I can convince her to do it but I also know that she will blame me for everything when struggles will start. I can't only hope for her maternal instincts to kick in.

 

[winjer]

In a country with over 1Billion people, a reduction in population is a good thing, but not when it's this fast, because it will put immense pressure on society and the economics of the country.

Meanwhile, India is out of control and going over 1.4 Billion people.

 

[kittoo]

For some people, yeah. For other people not so much. Some people regret having children (obviously few speak about it publicly for obvious reasons), some people love being child free.

Thats a good point that some people might not feel fulfilled or anything special after having a child. Not sure what percentage of people are like that but at least some I am sure.
Though the second point, that some people love being child free, is somewhat of a catch22 situation. Because they love being child-free since they never had a child so they havent felt the joy of it (you have to have a child for that), but they have seen the struggles that come with having a child by seeing others around them. So negative is apparent but positive is not.

Again, I am not saying parenting is for absolutely everyone, but I've seen far too many couples who now want a child more than anything else in the world but cant, and didnt want anything to do with it when they could.

 

[Drew1440]

I was talking to a couple who both are my friends. They like to travel the world (even have a Instagram page for that) and often take 3-4 overseas trips per year. Its been about 5 years they've been married and all I hear is that they are not ready for kids as it would affect their travel. Recently the girl turned 35 so I thought I would ask them as a friend that they might miss out on life-changing and affirming thing called having children. I myself recently had a girl and I personally have not known a more joyous thing in life.

The answer she gave me was that they have about 6-7 bucket list places to go to still and only after that would they think of having children. Now I get that everyone has their own mindset and priorities but it boggles my mind that people cant see short-term vs long-term. They can always travel again a couple years after the baby, but having a baby will only get exponentially harder from now on as she will be nearing 40 soon. How can one compare traveling with having a baby? I mean sure traveling is great but having a baby is like giving meaning to one's life. Its what we are hard-wired to do, what we are created to do and is the greatest event in one's life.

Money is not an issue with them either. Both earn very well. I just didnt want to see them turn 40, having fulfilled the 'bucket list' of travel and yet lost forever on the greatest bucket list item life can give. But these days I keep seeing people who realize they actually DO want kids until its so late. Then they give it their all- money, efforts, doctors, medicines but that joy keeps eluding. Everything has a time and place but people these days have forgotten that.

I hear this all the time at my workplace where they plan on having kids much later in their life, even using IVF for when needed. They aren't aware that the success rate of IVF is very low once you reach a certain age, and the odds of a child having a birth defect are much higher. I think were gonna have a generation of very angry and bitter childless people as we get older, once they realise they were mislead.

 

[JimmyRustler]

You are suggesting regressing society to year ~1900, yep there wasn't much to do for ordinary people outside work and fuck. Of course all those "little pleasures" (video games, smartphones, netflix etc.) are pointless in grand scheme of things but in reality our lives are pointless too, we don't have any goal outside of reproduction.

Women not being second class citizens anymore (despite what feminists say) also plays huge role, both sexes have more or less equal opportunities in life so many women chase career over having babies. Women are also not forced to relationships anymore.

I'm more into having kid than my woman and I know I can convince her to do it but I also know that she will blame me for everything when struggles will start. I can't only hope for her maternal instincts to kick in.

I'm not suggesting anything man. I'm just agrueing that the issue behind declining birth rates are not solely monetary, which it is so often made up to me. I mean, it was first comment here.
Like I said, there are a plethora of other reasons.
And please, don't get me started on the women thing. Hate me all if you want but women have been brainwashed against family more than anything and it's a bloody disgrace. Yes, there are some women for which the career path is great and I am happy that doors are opening for them. But I swaer to god... the VAST majority of women would be so much more happy focusing on raising children and it's just sad they don't even realize this because of how often they've been told it's such a bad thing.

 

[Bojji]

I'm not suggesting anything man. I'm just agrueing that the issue behind declining birth rates are not solely monetary, which it is so often made up to me. I mean, it was first comment here.
Like I said, there are a plethora of other reasons.
And please, don't get me started on the women thing. Hate me all if you want but women have been brainwashed against family more than anything and it's a bloody disgrace. Yes, there are some women for which the career path is great and I am happy that doors are opening for them. But I swaer to god... the VAST majority of women would be so much more happy focusing on raising children and it's just sad they don't even realize this because of how often they've been told it's such a bad thing.

Current feminist are miserable and they try to make life miserable for most other women too. I agree that most women would prefer traditional lifestyle but are afraid of going against current ideology "that is the best for them" (sold by mass media).

 

[JimmyRustler]

Current feminist are miserable and they try to make life miserable for most other women too. I agree that most women would prefer traditional lifestyle but are afraid of going against current ideology "that is the best for them" (sold by mass media).

Feminists, media, other women... I just had a talk about that the other day with a young girl and she literally said "it's the other women". I'm not making this up. Said that when her mother decided to become a housewife she got called out by everyone around her... Like it would "degress" women into old days... What the hell? Families falling apart left and right, single mothers everywhere... and then women who choose the other way are shat on. IT'S CRAZY.

 

[kittoo]

I hear this all the time at my workplace where they plan on having kids much later in their life, even using IVF for when needed. They aren't aware that the success rate of IVF is very low once you reach a certain age, and the odds of a child having a birth defect are much higher. I think were gonna have a generation of very angry and bitter childless people as we get older, once they realise they were mislead.

Isn't IVF hell to go through also?

 

[nush]

If Chinese want me back, they just need to sweeten the deal. I was with over 20 women while there. next time I'll never pull out.

 

[nush]

Fake as fuck

Aside from everything that seems totally fake, why do they specify that she's Russian?

It's fake as it's a viral promotion for whatever drinks brand that stacked up behind them. It's years old but I remember it getting broken down when the vid was new.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It's fake as it's a viral promotion for whatever drinks brand that stacked up behind them. It's years old but I remember it getting broken down when the vid was new.

Sure, but the interesting bit is why do they specify that the woman is Russian?

 

[nush]

Sure, but the interesting bit is why do they specify that the woman is Russian?

White. woman.

 

[EviLore]

It looks to be a combination of immense work stress & financial pressure, pessimism about the future, and young people going all-in on things like nightlife and travel when they have the means instead of starting families--a heavy departure from previous generational norms. And when they do start families, it's often after leaving for the West instead of doing it in China.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

It is time for a war then.

 

[Majmun]

Good thing that people in China are figuring out that just fucking and getting a kid is easy, but that taking care of the kid is the hardest part.

India and the African continent should also follow this trend.

 

[kikkis]

I don't really get this idea that if population shrinks, economy tanks. If people really saved their pensions, instead of relying on government handouts on old age and I don't really see the issue economically. Suggesting otherwise kind suggests that money doesn't have any value when saved.

Elon musk also says that we need big population for innovations and science, but those genius/high end genes only exist on small family lines.

 

[Majmun]

I don't really get this idea that if population shrinks, economy tanks. If people really saved their pensions, instead of relying on government handouts on old age and I don't really see the issue economically. Suggesting otherwise kind suggests that money doesn't have any value when saved.

Elon musk also says that we need big population for innovations and science, but those genius/high end genes only exist on small family lines.

Elon Musk sees people as customers, nothing more. The more customers, the better.

We had amazing scientists and discoveries even when the world had less than 500mln people living on it.

 

[nush]

It looks to be a combination of immense work stress & financial pressure, pessimism about the future, and young people going all-in on things like nightlife and travel when they have the means instead of starting families--a heavy departure from previous generational norms

A culture of "Looking rich" from the younger gens, many examples of this on social media and combined with easy credit and loans.

 

[poppabk]

There is an economic collapse happening. When they feel there is no future they have no progeny.

That's not normally how things work. When things start going to shit people start fucking like rabbits. It's more likely a cultural shift.

 

[DeafTourette]

Ridiculous and human history is living proof of that. Money is part of the problem but not the big chunck of it. People simply don't want to take responsibility and time to have and raise a family any more. Rather have party and waste time on social media. Women being more choosy then ever. And more...

Heck, as someone who would love to have kids just for the sake of it I feel like a stone cold relic.

In my part of the country (US), women are more choosey because the quality of men is so poor.

So many are still healing from trauma like abuse, sexual assault, etc from past relationships or from childhood. I know many women who've been victims and are actively in therapy. They're taking the time to heal their own traumas.

At the same time, they're noticing red flags in the dating pool of men who exhibit... Less than savory personality traits. Some are single mothers due to either SA or men who seemed like good men (believe it or not, it's not all "bad boys") and left or they did something unforgivable and were divorced.

I get it. Being cautious is correct in this day and age. I understand why a lot of women just don't want to be in a relationship right now... A lot of the women I know WANT to be married... But the men in the dating pool leave much to be desired.

As for me, I have already had a child who is now an adult in her 20s. I have no desire for more children at almost 50. I'm too old. But I hope after therapy, I'll be ready for marriage.

 

[JimmyRustler]

In my part of the country (US), women are more choosey because the quality of men is so poor.

So many are still healing from trauma like abuse, sexual assault, etc from past relationships or from childhood. I know many women who've been victims and are actively in therapy. They're taking the time to heal their own traumas.

At the same time, they're noticing red flags in the dating pool of men who exhibit... Less than savory personality traits. Some are single mothers due to either SA or men who seemed like good men (believe it or not, it's not all "bad boys") and left or they did something unforgivable and were divorced.

I get it. Being cautious is correct in this day and age. I understand why a lot of women just don't want to be in a relationship right now... A lot of the women I know WANT to be married... But the men in the dating pool leave much to be desired.

As for me, I have already had a child who is now an adult in her 20s. I have no desire for more children at almost 50. I'm too old. But I hope after therapy, I'll be ready for marriage.

Well, I'm sure it goes both ways. I don't think women have it easy either - but it's them that set the goalposts to some degree in this day and age. Barely anyone is forced into a relationship or marriage any more and hence womens choices larely engineer mens behaviour.

Assume from tomorrow on the hottest girls would choose the smart introvert over the fun and exiting extrovert. What do you think the world would look like 1 year later?

 

[EviLore]

Assume from tomorrow on the hottest girls would choose the smart introvert over the fun and exiting extrovert. What do you think the world would look like 1 year later?

The hottest girls tend to be self-centered imbeciles, so there's not much fundamental compatibility with the likes of STEM nerds in either direction.

Girls who spend 12 hours a day on their looks match well with guys who only care about appearances and money.

 

[Kenpachii]

People started there lives way earlier back in the day, u had your work settled, house, wife and future planned in your early 20's, now its for most people moving towards the 40's.

 

[JimmyRustler]

The hottest girls tend to be self-centered imbeciles, so there's not much fundamental compatibility with the likes of STEM nerds in either direction.

Girls who spend 12 hours a day on their looks match well with guys who only care about appearances and money.

I know it doesn't make sense, I raised the question just for debates sake. What if those girls who spend so much time on their looks would all of a sudden choose the super smart dudes over the entertaining ones? The world would change radically.
Hence I do believe that women are, to some degree, self to blaime for the earlier mentioned week quality of men.

 

[RedC]

I don't really get this idea that if population shrinks, economy tanks. If people really saved their pensions, instead of relying on government handouts on old age and I don't really see the issue economically. Suggesting otherwise kind suggests that money doesn't have any value when saved.

Elon musk also says that we need big population for innovations and science, but those genius/high end genes only exist on small family lines.

1. Economic Implications: A shrinking population can lead to a decline in the labor force, potentially causing economic challenges. A smaller workforce may result in reduced productivity, fewer taxpayers, and a strain on social welfare systems.
2. Aging Population: A declining population often correlates with an aging population. An imbalance where there are more elderly individuals than younger ones can strain healthcare systems and pension plans, as older individuals generally require more medical care and financial support.
3. Innovation and Productivity: A younger population is often associated with innovation, entrepreneurship, and higher productivity. A decline in the working-age population may lead to a lack of dynamism in the economy, impacting its ability to adapt and innovate.
4. Social Services and Infrastructure: A decreasing population may lead to underutilization of existing infrastructure and social services, resulting in inefficiencies and financial challenges for maintaining public services.
5. Cultural and Social Concerns: Population decline can have cultural and social implications, such as the potential loss of cultural diversity and traditions. It may also affect social dynamics, including family structures and community cohesion.
6. Real Estate and Housing Market: A declining population can lead to a surplus of housing, affecting the real estate market. This can result in decreased property values and impact the construction industry.
7. Representation: A shrinking population may lead to challenges in maintaining fair political representation. If the number of citizens decreases, it could result in fewer seats or representation in legislative bodies, potentially leading to an imbalance in political power.
8. Policy Priorities: A declining population might shift the focus of policymakers. Issues related to an aging population, healthcare, and social services may take precedence over concerns that affect a younger demographic. This can create intergenerational tensions and political imbalances in addressing diverse needs.
9. Voting Patterns: Changes in demographics due to population decline can influence voting patterns. For example, an older population may have different political preferences and priorities compared to a younger population. This can impact electoral outcomes and shape political agendas.
10. Social Cohesion: In extreme cases of population decline, there may be increased social and political polarization as a smaller population deals with critical issues. Competition for resources and opportunities could intensify, potentially leading to political instability.
11. Economic Policies: A declining population can influence economic policies. Governments may implement policies to encourage population growth, such as pro-natalist measures, or focus on immigration policies to maintain workforce levels. These policies can have political implications and may be subject to debates and disagreements.

 

[BlackTron]

Yeah, I know that's why it's viewed as a problem. Not enough people making little economic units to prop up the stock market, etc.

 

[JayK47]

The future is muslim.

 

[Bojji]

The future is muslim.

Muslims don't multiply that much once they reach certain quality of life level. This is true for all people.

 

[Wastelander92]

Maybe working 16 hours a day 7 days a week isn't the best idea to keep a country alive.

 

[GutsOfThor]

Send me over there and I'll be Mr. Creampie Supreme

 

[Hudo]

Maybe working 16 hours a day 7 days a week isn't the best idea to keep a country alive.

No but you can fix it by working 18 hours a day 8 days a week!

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

.

 

[RJMacready73]

Tbf ain't nobody gonna shed a tear for the impending collapse of China, for too long they've absolutely raped the world's oceans to feed themselves, so when they don't have enough young people paying to look after all those old fucks, I for one will raise a toast to mother nature and wishing her a speedy recovery at China's expense

 

[CoreyFlawless]

I mean, wouldn’t it be best to start having less? Hell I only have one kid. Really can’t even afford to have another. Plus, how high homeless gotten. Could be good to have less for the next 10 years world wide.

 

[NickFire]

Yeah, I know that's why it's viewed as a problem. Not enough people making little economic units to prop up the stock market, etc.

But, infinite growth will destroy the planet at some point, so there's that too.

Yes. I don't see why this is a problem. Stock markets may not like it, but we only have one planet. Responsible family planning is good for everyone on Earth.

 

[NickFire]

Wait, this might not have anything to do with responsible family planning. See below:

This couple tried to conceive for years — turns out they were having sex all wrong

A couple’s misguided attempt at family planning makes a strong case for adding sex education to the curriculum.

nypost.com

 

[RedC]

I mean, wouldn’t it be best to start having less? Hell I only have one kid. Really can’t even afford to have another. Plus, how high homeless gotten. Could be good to have less for the next 10 years world wide.

Yes. I don't see why this is a problem. Stock markets may not like it, but we only have one planet. Responsible family planning is good for everyone on Earth.

1. Economic Implications: A shrinking population can lead to a decline in the labor force, potentially causing economic challenges. A smaller workforce may result in reduced productivity, fewer taxpayers, and a strain on social welfare systems.
2. Aging Population: A declining population often correlates with an aging population. An imbalance where there are more elderly individuals than younger ones can strain healthcare systems and pension plans, as older individuals generally require more medical care and financial support.
3. Innovation and Productivity: A younger population is often associated with innovation, entrepreneurship, and higher productivity. A decline in the working-age population may lead to a lack of dynamism in the economy, impacting its ability to adapt and innovate.
4. Social Services and Infrastructure: A decreasing population may lead to underutilization of existing infrastructure and social services, resulting in inefficiencies and financial challenges for maintaining public services.
5. Cultural and Social Concerns: Population decline can have cultural and social implications, such as the potential loss of cultural diversity and traditions. It may also affect social dynamics, including family structures and community cohesion.
6. Real Estate and Housing Market: A declining population can lead to a surplus of housing, affecting the real estate market. This can result in decreased property values and impact the construction industry.
7. Representation: A shrinking population may lead to challenges in maintaining fair political representation. If the number of citizens decreases, it could result in fewer seats or representation in legislative bodies, potentially leading to an imbalance in political power.
8. Policy Priorities: A declining population might shift the focus of policymakers. Issues related to an aging population, healthcare, and social services may take precedence over concerns that affect a younger demographic. This can create intergenerational tensions and political imbalances in addressing diverse needs.
9. Voting Patterns: Changes in demographics due to population decline can influence voting patterns. For example, an older population may have different political preferences and priorities compared to a younger population. This can impact electoral outcomes and shape political agendas.
10. Social Cohesion: In extreme cases of population decline, there may be increased social and political polarization as a smaller population deals with critical issues. Competition for resources and opportunities could intensify, potentially leading to political instability.
11. Economic Policies: A declining population can influence economic policies. Governments may implement policies to encourage population growth, such as pro-natalist measures, or focus on immigration policies to maintain workforce levels. These policies can have political implications and may be subject to debates and disagreements.

 

[dem]

I mean, wouldn’t it be best to start having less? Hell I only have one kid. Really can’t even afford to have another. Plus, how high homeless gotten. Could be good to have less for the next 10 years world wide.

An aging population and no workers to tax doesn't turn out well.

It's pretty simple.