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[TheOctodad]

The evangelist heavyweights are still all in on this. I.e. Franklin Graham. That's all Trumpers will care about. I doubt a lot of white Catholics, particularly in the rust belt, will care either.

Trumpers like him, and some of the far right wing Evangelicals. But most Evangelicals I know (including pastors), want nothing to do with him.

Franklin Graham is lost at sea with a lot of these people. He's not your best litmus.

they should have taken their asses to the ballot box and pretended they were aware they were voting for someone who will manage more than one issue during their time in office. their nearsightedness helped fuck over our entire nation. These tweets mean approximately nothing to me. They should have been posted 4 months ago when it might have mattered.

Go back and look, many of them did say things then and have been. Let's not perpetuate a false narrative here. Many were silent, but many weren't. Just from one glance:
Nov 9:

 

[GameAddict411]

Off course real christians will never agree with the ruling, but Trump is not really christian. In fact most politicians and people in power are not religious people. They use religion to further their agenda and the Republicans adopted the idea of christianity in the 70 to gather votes. The anti abortion and gay stance is to appeal to those voters. But cooperate republicans are indifferent about those issues.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

"Vasquez? Sorry, true Christians can't be brown." -Trump

You joke.

But.

 

[CornBurrito]

Off course real christians will never agree with the ruling, but Trump is not really christian. In fact most politicians and people in power are not religious people. They use religion to further their agenda and the Republicans adopted the idea of christianity in the 70 to gather votes. The anti abortion and gay stance is to appeal to those voters. But cooperate republicans are indifferent about those issues.

Dividing people into "real" and "fake" Christians based on your personal opinion of what Christians should be like doesn't really do anything particularly useful.

 

[Chumly]

Dividing people into "real" and "fake" Christians based on your personal opinion of what Christians should be like doesn't really do anything particularly useful.

You should absolutely devide people into real and fake christians. Fake christians that like to pretend they are good people but only focus on gay people and abortions should be shamed. That and prosperity Christianity need to be denounced.

 

[CornBurrito]

You should absolutely devide people into real and fake christians. Fake christians that like to pretend they are good people but only focus on gay people and abortions should be shamed. That and prosperity Christianity need to be denounced.

I personally don't believe that Christianity supports abortion. So what is a real Christian? Lets say we have Paul who goes to Church often and helps out at soup kitchens, but believes life begins at conception and thus opposes abortion.

I don't see anything there inconsistent with the New Testament.

I'm pro-choice but that is because I am secular. The argument that life begins at conception is a religious one, and I don't think someone who believes that is fake. The idea of bodily autonomy isn't a big one in Christianity either.

And you may argue "but they shouldn't force their views on others!" but that's a bit nonsensical. A Christian country wouldn't be without law. No matter what law you pass it is forcing your views on others, even if most people already agree with them by default (ie. no theft, no murder).

 

[Schlorgan]

LDS Church statement:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is concerned about the temporal and spiritual welfare of all of God's children across the earth, with special concern for those who are fleeing physical violence, war and religious persecution. The Church urges all people and governments to cooperate fully in seeking the best solutions to meet human needs and relieve suffering.

Basically reiterating their statement from December 2015 around the time Trump first brought up a "Muslim ban:"

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in regard to party politics and election campaigns. However, it is not neutral in relation to religious freedom. The following statements by Joseph Smith from 1841 and 1843 are consistent with the Church’s position today:

If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a "Mormon," I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves. It is a love of liberty which inspires my soul — civil and religious liberty to the whole of the human race.

—Joseph Smith, 1843

Be it ordained by the City Council of the City of Nauvoo, that the Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, Latter-day Saints, Quakers, Episcopals, Universalists, Unitarians, Mohammedans [Muslims], and all other religious sects and denominations whatever, shall have free toleration, and equal privileges in this city ...

—Ordinance in Relation to Religious Societies, City of Nauvoo, [Illinois] headquarters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 1, 1841

From Jeffery R. Holland in September 2016:

Governments today are not responding to the refugee problem urgently enough, nor on a large enough scale.

The world needs to be more outraged than it is. The violence, the sexual violence, the murder, the rape, the destruction of families and any social structure that these people have had — almost entire cultures being destroyed.

 

[plufim]

It's good, but where the fuck were they before the election.

All of this shit is Trump literally doing what he said he'd do. And most Christian leaders were telling their flock to vote Republican.

 

[UnObtainium17]

.dead
OMG. I could see trump saying that shit.

Only to descend from the heavens on the Thrid day.

 

[Chumly]

I personally don't believe that Christianity supports abortion. So what is a real Christian? Lets say we have Paul who goes to Church often and helps out at soup kitchens, but believes life begins at conception and thus opposes abortion.

I don't see anything there inconsistent with the New Testament.

I'm pro-choice but that is because I am secular. The argument that life begins at conception is a religious one, and I don't think someone who believes that is fake. The idea of bodily autonomy isn't a big one in Christianity either.

And you may argue "but they shouldn't force their views on others!" but that's a bit nonsensical. A Christian country wouldn't be without law. No matter what law you pass it is forcing your views on others, even if most people already agree with them by default (ie. no theft, no murder).

A good portion of the population has a shitty view on Christianity due to shitty people doing things in the name of Christianity. You can either A. Call them out on it that they are being hypocrites or B. Continue to let them to shitty things under false flags.

Also note that I didn't say that all anti abortionists are fake christians. I specifically said that christians that only focus on the abortion or gay issues are.

 

[commedieu]

Trumpers like him, and some of the far right wing Evangelicals. But most Evangelicals I know (including pastors), want nothing to do with him.

Franklin Graham is lost at sea with a lot of these people. He's not your best litmus.



Go back and look, many of them did say things then and have been. Let's not perpetuate a false narrative here. Many were silent, but many weren't. Just from one glance:
Nov 9:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...dent-thanks-to-4-in-5-white-evangelicals.html

Exit polls suggest that “Never Trump” was never a likely outcome for white evangelical voters, who showed up to support President-elect Donald Trump at their highest margin since 2004.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...ning-evangelical-vote-trump-clinton-2016.html



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

The 2016 presidential exit polling reveals little change in the political alignments of U.S. religious groups. Those who supported Republican candidates in recent elections, such as white born-again or evangelical Christians and white Catholics, strongly supported Donald Trump as well. Groups that traditionally backed Democratic candidates, including religious “nones,” Hispanic Catholics and Jews, were firmly in Hillary Clinton’s corner.

We can look at data, and not anecdotes. Religious folks have a pattern of voting republican, who actively want a destruction of brown people and womens rights, and have since before trump.

There was a fascist running for president, that telegraphed everything here. Never once acted like anything remotely near a person of god.. and yet.. here he is. I'm not blaming christians, but I do blame the response to this, probably, literal evil man getting a significant % of support from religious people.

Its just a real ball of "Gee, golly.. you don't say?"

Many voted for trump.

 

[Mr Nash]

White catholics largely don't give a fuck about what their faith leadership says. Many are just evangelical fundies with rosaries at this point.

Those are some pretty broad generalizations there, bub.

 

[The Technomancer]

Bishop Joe S. Vásquez

That name there sounds like one of them brown people names to me

 

[Abelard]

Just to play devil's advocate, as someone from a Muslim background myself I do say its actually perfectly rational to favor Christians because they are a higher risk target and they pose less of a danger to the country. In Canada we are already prioritizing women/children/families as opposed to single men for the same reasons so parameters based on identity have already had a set prescient.

Not saying its right or ethical or what I believe, but its something interesting I thought of when considering this whole mess.

 

[blakep267]

I don't know how to link tweets but the Kirk franklin exchange earlier was golden. Threatened a man in the name of Jesus

 

[TheOctodad]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...dent-thanks-to-4-in-5-white-evangelicals.html



http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...ning-evangelical-vote-trump-clinton-2016.html



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/



We can look at data, and not anecdotes. Religious folks have a pattern of voting republican, who actively want a destruction of brown people and womens rights, and have since before trump.

There was a fascist running for president, that telegraphed everything here. Never once acted like anything remotely near a person of god.. and yet.. here he is. I'm not blaming christians, but I do blame the response to this, probably, literal evil man getting a significant % of support from religious people.

Its just a real ball of "Gee, golly.. you don't say?"

Many voted for trump.

I think we're in agreement here. Most voted for Trump, many didnt. And mainline, unaffiliated and Catholics almost all denounced the evangelicals move constantly.

I have no issue with Evangelicals feet being held to the fire. Hell, I think evangelicalism should collapse because of how they've been in bed with politics for so many years. I just think it's important to hear that there are inside voices as well with the same critiques.

And look, I get the "no true Scotsman thing." But when I lived in the south, being a Christian is almost a folk cultural religion. It's a club of gathering people like you (yes I mean look and think like you) to provide assurance. I just don't think the rubric used to define Christian - despite the claims - gets to claim it without being critiqued.

Evangelicalism and Christianity are not synonymous.

 

[commedieu]

I think we're in agreement here. Most voted for Trump, many didnt. And mainline, unaffiliated and Catholics almost all denounced the evangelicals move constantly.

I have no issue with Evangelicals feet being held to the fire. Hell, I think evangelicalism should collapse because of how they've been in bed with politics for so many years. I just think it's important to hear that there are inside voices as well with the same critiques.

And look, I get the "no true Scotsman thing." But when I lived in the south, being a Christian is almost a folk cultural religion. It's a club of gathering people like you (yes I mean look and think like you) to provide assurance. I just don't think the rubric used to define Christian - despite the claims - gets to claim it without being critiqued.

Evangelicalism and Christianity are not synonymous.

I think it's inherent that there are religious people with sense. However, when it came time to vote. Christians voted for trump. We have to be honest with ourselves to be able to correct behavior. This is what that demographic allows to happen with their vote. So it's hard to take the sudden awakening seriously. But unfortunately folks have to take what they get at this point in history. Fascism was easily voted in, by a man that was an obvious godless bigot. People decided to not even vote. It's not just all 9n Christians of course. But we as a nation need to look into that mirror damn hard, and remember this moment. So it never happens again. This easily.

 

[Garlador]

Even "real" news FOX News is reporting on this!
Religious groups join outpouring against Trump refugee order

Lol. Will he say FOX News is fake and biased too?

 

[Starphoenix]

Not that surprising many Christian leaders are backing away from Trump. Many Christians I know, myself included, did not support him during the primaries. Even after he won the primary, many of us really grappled with whether to even vote in this election. Speaking only for myself, my goal was to do what would leave me least ashamed in the presence of Christ when answering for my votes, and would not violate my own conscious on the issues that matter to me. Did my part during the primary (was allowed to vote as an independent due to state's open primary), but it wasn't enough, obviously.

 

[TheOctodad]

Again, just to be clear, they should have said something earlier, but...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesusc...on-letter-president-trump/?platform=hootsuite

As evangelical Christians, we are guided by the Bible to be particularly concerned for the plight of refugees, individuals who have been forced to flee their countries because of the threat of persecution. Evangelical churches and ministries have long played a key role in welcoming, resettling, and assisting in the integration of refugees from various parts of the world. As such, we are troubled by the recent executive order temporarily halting refugee resettlement and dramatically reducing the number of refugees who could be considered for resettlement to the U.S.

...

Respectfully,
Chad Hayward
CEO
Accord Network

Shirley V. Hoogstra
President
Council for Christian Colleges and Universities

Hyepin Im
President & CEO
Korean Churches for Community Development

Leith Anderson
President
National Association of Evangelicals

Rev. Dr. Samuel Rodriguez
President
National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference

Rev. Dr. Jo Anne Lyon
Ambassador
The Wesleyan Church

Tim Breene
CEO
World Relief

Richard Stearns
President
World Vision U.S.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...out-the-refugee-order/?utm_term=.6d2517032dbe

Southern Baptists are among the many Americans living in majority-Muslim countries to carry out the biblical call to love their neighbors. We are deeply concerned that the order will cause widespread diplomatic fallout with the Muslim world, putting Southern Baptists serving in these countries in grave danger and preventing them from serving refugees and others who are in need with humanitarian assistance and the love of the gospel.

...

As such, I call upon your Administration to:

Clarify, through a rigorous interagency review and coordination, the extent of the Executive Order to resolve the status of green card holders, Iraqi military interpreters, and other ambiguities;
Implement additional screening measures in order that the Refugee Admission Program may be resumed as soon as possible, including for refugees from Syria; Work to ensure the safety of Americans serving in majority-Muslim countries and to preserve their ability to continue serving the “least of these” in the region; and Affirm your administration’s commitment to religious freedom and the inalienable human dignity of persecuted people whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Yazidi or other, and adjust the Executive Order as necessary.

Finally, assimilation into American life is crucial for both the security of our existing citizens and the well-being of refugee families. Christian churches and other faith communities have proven their unique ability to facilitate such adjustments. Southern Baptists know that our responsibility is to care for and serve refugees here in the United States and around the world, and we remain committed to that mission.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Even "real" news FOX News is reporting on this!
Religious groups join outpouring against Trump refugee order

Lol. Will he say FOX News is fake and biased too?

Trump: Everybody except Breitbart and Lifezette are biased and fake. Fox News is just less fake.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Among the claims Mr. Trump made at his campaign rallies was that the Obama administration had denied refugee status to Christians, and had given preference to Muslims.

This motherfucker...

 

[Fenderputty]

they should have taken their asses to the ballot box and pretended they were aware they were voting for someone who will manage more than one issue during their time in office. their nearsightedness helped fuck over our entire nation. These tweets mean approximately nothing to me. They should have been posted 4 months ago when it might have mattered.

They're gonna be happy with his SCOTUS pick an will forget all about this like they ignored it before the election soon as well.

 

[_Ryo_]

Happy to see this, gives me some hope. Thank you.

 

[TheOctodad]

They're gonna be happy with his SCOTUS pick an will forget all about this like they ignored it before the election soon as well.

This is partially correct.

Right now, you can bet that Evangelicals want republicans in office.

Right now you can also bet that Evangelicals would be happier if Donald Trump was out and someone more traditional was in.

Progressives should see this as a potential ally in apply pressure to the Senate and Congress when it comes to Trump. After that, sure, duke it out. But right now ... mobilize this group in your favor and you'll get some momentum.

 

[Fenderputty]

This is partially correct.

Right now, you can bet that Evangelicals want republicans in office.

Right now you can also bet that Evangelicals would be happier if Donald Trump was out and someone more traditional was in.

Progressives should see this as a potential ally in apply pressure to the Senate and Congress when it comes to Trump. After that, sure, duke it out. But right now ... mobilize this group in your favor and you'll get some momentum.

Even if this were a possible short term ally, he's picking his SCOTUS pick in the next 24-48 hours.

 

[LosDaddie]

At the end of the day, Christians are just like everyone else and vote the same way regardless of who's at the top of the ticket.

So while they may or may not agree with some things like a Muslim refugee ban at the moment, they'll be right back cheering for a conservative SCOTUS pick and Abortion funding ban.

 

[Fenderputty]

At the end of the day, Christians are just like everyone else and vote the same way regardless of who's at the top of the ticket.

So while they may or may not agree with some things like a Muslim refugee ban at the moment, they'll be right back cheering for a conservative SCOTUS pick and Abortion funding ban.

I would like to think that if the Dems ran a fascist I would vote to prevent that over my single issue concern I normally vote for.

 

[TheOctodad]

Even if this were a possible short term ally, he's picking his SCOTUS pick in the next 24-48 hours.

My point is that the SCOTUS pick is a lost cause at this point. Sure, filibuster it, try to stop it - whatever, it's probably going to happen.

But if you want to do damage control beyond that - if you're worried about future SCOTUS picks and laws, would you rather have Trump selecting it, or a more traditional GOP member?

I get it, it'll suck either way. Yes.

But there's complaining about the status quo and then there's damage control. I'm saying if you want to minimize damage, Trump's actions are not sitting well with many Evangelicals. Continued moral mistakes and disruptions to the Evangelical priority will not make them go Democrat, but it might make them tell the Senate and Congress to get rid of Trump.

 

[erlim]

Don't most Christians not consider Catholics to be Christians?

 

[squeakywheel]

Don't most Christians not consider Catholics to be Christians?

Virgin Mary as the intercessor is the main problem as well as the idea of a purgatory along with other sticking points.

 

[entremet]

Don't most Christians not consider Catholics to be Christians?

Depends who you ask lol.

But generally the Deity status of Christ is the main thing they all agree with. Christian groups have been condemning each other since the inception of the faith.

 

[JZA]

"Fake religions" label incoming.

 

[jackal27]

Hey everybody, what's up?

I'm a pastor and a religious leader and I'll denounce Trump and everything he's done so far until the day I die, but particularly his (and his administration's) discrimination against Muslim and Middle-Eastern immigrants and refugees. It's disgusting and in direct opposition to the mission of Jesus.

 

[toddhunter]

Hey everybody, what's up?

I'm a pastor and a religious leader and I'll denounce Trump and everything he's done so far until the day I die, but particularly his (and his administration's) discrimination against Muslim and Middle-Eastern immigrants and refugees. It's disgusting and in direct opposition to the mission of Jesus.

But you'll still cheer when the supreme court takes away women's rights and vote for him in 4 years so it stays that way right?

America could be fixed if the Christians got together and decided to just leave people alone. Then suddenly the republicans would have to earn their vote rather than getting it by default and the whole world will be a better place.

 

[R0ckman]

YUUUUUPP. We're pissed:



https://twitter.com/FocusFamily/status/825728140731305985



https://twitter.com/WorldRelief/status/824393282239262721



http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/2273/on-refugee-ministry



https://twitter.com/BrianZahnd/status/814301304625528832



https://twitter.com/PrestonSprinkle/status/825578996708421632



http://www.interfaithimmigration.org/religiousleaderletter/



https://twitter.com/EugeneCho/status/825746357289832448


I can keep going...

Christainity today in US was decended from nationlism, it was used in Europe to rebel against the old monarchy. Its too late to save it. Its part of its identity.

 

[jackal27]

But you'll still cheer when the supreme court takes away women's rights and vote for him in 4 years so it stays that way right?

America could be fixed if the Christians got together and decided to just leave people alone. Then suddenly the republicans would have to earn their vote rather than getting it by default and the whole world will be a better place.

I voted for Clinton and I would do it again any day of the week over Trump or anybody else in the Republican running this year. I would have preferred Sanders though.

I voted Dem across the ballot this year and pushed for Jason Kander for Missouri Senate across my city.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2009 and 2012 while attending a Christian university.

Do not assume you know me or my beliefs. This is what happens you're not willing to have a conversation with someone based on one aspect of who they are. You not only risk allowing them to live in an echo chamber of poorly constructed beliefs about the world, but you risk creating one for yourself where ideas like "If someone is a Christian, obviously they voted for Trump." seem logical. It puts up walls where you could have potentially built bridges to add valuable and powerful voices to the fight against racism, misogyny, and hatred.

That is why I do ministry. That is why I suffer even the most hurtful personal attacks in emails and angry rants from people I've been called to serve. It's why I passionately speak from the stage, protest in the streets, live my life under a microscope, and call out hypocrisy and injustice even though it could cost me my job on any day of the week.

So no, I do not believe America would be "fixed" (whatever that means) if Christians would just leave people alone. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't fought for orphaned and abandoned children. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't created hospitals and non-profits. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't marched for civil rights. And I certainly do not think America will be fixed if Christians today sit idly by while a facist demagogue passes down legislation that hurts the lives of their human brothers and sisters. So no, I will not leave people alone.

“We are not to simply bandage the wounds of victims beneath the wheels of injustice, we are to drive a spoke into the wheel itself.”
-Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran, pacifist, pastor and theologian who was executed by the Nazis for helping plan the assassination of Hitler.

 

[toddhunter]

I voted for Clinton and I would do it again any day of the week over Trump or anybody else in the Republican running this year. I would have preferred Sanders though.

I voted Dem across the ballot this year and pushed for Jason Kander for Missouri Senate across my city.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2009 and 2012 while attending a Christian university.

Do not assume you know me or my beliefs. This is what happens you're not willing to have a conversation with someone based on one aspect of who they are. You not only risk allowing them to live in an echo chamber of poorly constructed beliefs about the world, but you risk creating one for yourself where ideas like "If someone is a Christian, obviously they voted for Trump." seem logical. It puts up walls where you could have potentially built bridges to add valuable and powerful voices to the fight against racism, misogyny, and hatred.

That is why I do ministry. That is why I suffer even the most hurtful personal attacks in emails and angry rants from people I've been called to serve. It's why I passionately speak from the stage, protest in the streets, live my life under a microscope, and call out hypocrisy and injustice even though it could cost me my job on any day of the week.

So no, I do not believe America would be "fixed" (whatever that means) if Christians would just leave people alone. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't fought for orphaned and abandoned children. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't created hospitals and non-profits. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't marched for civil rights. And I certainly do not think America will be fixed if Christians today sit idly by while a facist demagogue passes down legislation that hurts the lives of their human brothers and sisters. So no, I will not leave people alone.

“We are not to simply bandage the wounds of victims beneath the wheels of injustice, we are to drive a spoke into the wheel itself.”
-Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran, pacifist, pastor and theologian who was executed by the Nazis for helping plan the assassination of Hitler.

It sounds like you are a good guy then and I apologise. But the reality is that it seems you are the minority based on the voting results. The problem with Christianity in America (and other parts of the world)remains as stated.

 

[SURGEdude]

I voted for Clinton and I would do it again any day of the week over Trump or anybody else in the Republican running this year. I would have preferred Sanders though.

I voted Dem across the ballot this year and pushed for Jason Kander for Missouri Senate across my city.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2009 and 2012 while attending a Christian university.

Do not assume you know me or my beliefs. This is what happens you're not willing to have a conversation with someone based on one aspect of who they are. You not only risk allowing them to live in an echo chamber of poorly constructed beliefs about the world, but you risk creating one for yourself where ideas like "If someone is a Christian, obviously they voted for Trump." seem logical. It puts up walls where you could have potentially built bridges to add valuable and powerful voices to the fight against racism, misogyny, and hatred.

That is why I do ministry. That is why I suffer even the most hurtful personal attacks in emails and angry rants from people I've been called to serve. It's why I passionately speak from the stage, protest in the streets, live my life under a microscope, and call out hypocrisy and injustice even though it could cost me my job on any day of the week.

So no, I do not believe America would be "fixed" (whatever that means) if Christians would just leave people alone. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't fought for orphaned and abandoned children. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't created hospitals and non-profits. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't marched for civil rights. And I certainly do not think America will be fixed if Christians today sit idly by while a facist demagogue passes down legislation that hurts the lives of their human brothers and sisters. So no, I will not leave people alone.

“We are not to simply bandage the wounds of victims beneath the wheels of injustice, we are to drive a spoke into the wheel itself.”
-Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran, pacifist, pastor and theologian who was executed by the Nazis for helping plan the assassination of Hitler.

This is a great post. You sound like a thoughtful guy. I think the general animosity many of us feel has to do with how much the right has co-opted religion for political purposes. In doing so even I myself sometimes painting with an overly broad brush. If anything the pushback by the faithful to Trump has served as a wonderful reminder of how many good upright people there are in the faiths.

I'd sum up my feelings something like this: Many of the best people I know are religious, and so are many of the worst. Sometimes people focus a bit too much on the latter.

 

[TheOctodad]

I voted for Clinton and I would do it again any day of the week over Trump or anybody else in the Republican running this year. I would have preferred Sanders though.

I voted Dem across the ballot this year and pushed for Jason Kander for Missouri Senate across my city.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2009 and 2012 while attending a Christian university.

Do not assume you know me or my beliefs. This is what happens you're not willing to have a conversation with someone based on one aspect of who they are. You not only risk allowing them to live in an echo chamber of poorly constructed beliefs about the world, but you risk creating one for yourself where ideas like "If someone is a Christian, obviously they voted for Trump." seem logical. It puts up walls where you could have potentially built bridges to add valuable and powerful voices to the fight against racism, misogyny, and hatred.

That is why I do ministry. That is why I suffer even the most hurtful personal attacks in emails and angry rants from people I've been called to serve. It's why I passionately speak from the stage, protest in the streets, live my life under a microscope, and call out hypocrisy and injustice even though it could cost me my job on any day of the week.

So no, I do not believe America would be "fixed" (whatever that means) if Christians would just leave people alone. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't fought for orphaned and abandoned children. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't created hospitals and non-profits. I don't think America would be fixed if Christians hadn't marched for civil rights. And I certainly do not think America will be fixed if Christians today sit idly by while a facist demagogue passes down legislation that hurts the lives of their human brothers and sisters. So no, I will not leave people alone.

”We are not to simply bandage the wounds of victims beneath the wheels of injustice, we are to drive a spoke into the wheel itself."
-Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran, pacifist, pastor and theologian who was executed by the Nazis for helping plan the assassination of Hitler.

We just became best friends, you just don't know it yet.

I can name at least 30 Christian pastors/theologians that I know personally that align with you.

Another big Bonhoeffer quote that I love:

"Christianity stands or falls with its revolutionary protest against violence, arbitrariness, and pride of power, and with its plea for the weak. Christians are doing little to make these points clear ... Christendom adjusts itself far too easily to the worship of power. Christians should give more offense, shock the world far more, than they are doing now."

Also, here's a Christian organization that I know that just posted this. "These are a list of refugees we had flights booked for..."

 

[Chuck Norris]

What do these guys know? Jesus was a gun loving American who hated Muslims. This is exactly what he would have wanted

 

[Monocle]

I like sons of god who don't get crucified

Yeah Christ always came off as a total pushover, taking all that abuse. Very bad and weak example for our children. If you're not strong you can't be a savior, that's my view!

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

I like sons of god who don't get crucified

Lmao.

 

[Figboy79]

As a Christian, one of the most infuriating aspects of so called "Christians" is the disgusting dismissal and treatment of non-Christians, Atheists, Muslims, and any one who follows a faith other than Christian. And then they hide behind their faith when this bullshit is called out.

Christ would be ashamed if he saw what his followers were enforcing in his name. He taught love and respect and acceptance of your fellow man. I could easily see him standing up for the rights of Muslims, LGBTQ people, and other minorities. Christianity is supposed to be about understanding and good will. It's deplorable what Christians are imposing and attempting to impose on their fellow man. It makes me really, really angry.

 

[Replicant]

Depends who you ask lol.

But generally the Deity status of Christ is the main thing they all agree with. Christian groups have been condemning each other since the inception of the faith.

Catholics are the black dogs of Christianity, at least in my family. I remember my uncles/aunts always talking about how we were not devout enough because as Catholics all we did was Sunday mass and that's it. No choir, no extra prayers, no group meetings. Back then my mom/dad were just grinning but I always thought that Christians are a bunch of snobby assholes who think too much of themselves.

A girl once told me that she feels sorry for those who are not Christian because they were doomed. I asked her what about people in the far reach places where missionary never reached them? She just casually answered that they are unfortunate. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough. It's the beginning of my disenchantment with religion in general including my own.

 

[ratcliffja]

As a Christian, one of the most infuriating aspects of so called "Christians" is the disgusting dismissal and treatment of non-Christians, Atheists, Muslims, and any one who follows a faith other than Christian. And then they hide behind their faith when this bullshit is called out.

Christ would be ashamed if he saw what his followers were enforcing in his name. He taught love and respect and acceptance of your fellow man. I could easily see him standing up for the rights of Muslims, LGBTQ people, and other minorities. Christianity is supposed to be about understanding and good will. It's deplorable what Christians are imposing and attempting to impose on their fellow man. It makes me really, really angry.

Exactly. I'm glad to see so many Christians are with me on this. I had a friend on Facebook make a post about how heartbreaking it is to have people persecute in the name of Christ, which was then echoed by many of my other Christian friends. As awful as this feels as a Christian, I can't imagine how Muslims must feel when they're constantly labeled as ruthless murderers because a sect of them is so publicly awful.

 

[Oersted]

As a Christian, one of the most infuriating aspects of so called "Christians" is the disgusting dismissal and treatment of non-Christians, Atheists, Muslims, and any one who follows a faith other than Christian. And then they hide behind their faith when this bullshit is called out.

Christ would be ashamed if he saw what his followers were enforcing in his name. He taught love and respect and acceptance of your fellow man. I could easily see him standing up for the rights of Muslims, LGBTQ people, and other minorities. Christianity is supposed to be about understanding and good will. It's deplorable what Christians are imposing and attempting to impose on their fellow man. It makes me really, really angry.

Look at the Ten Commandments, look at the Seven Deadly Sins.

Look how many of those Donald violated, look how many Donald embodies.

And than look at his Christian support. Its pathetic.

 

[TheOctodad]

A girl once told me that she feels sorry for those who are not Christian because they were doomed. I asked her what about people in the far reach places where missionary never reached them? She just casually answered that they are unfortunate. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough. It's the beginning of my disenchantment with religion in general including my own.

Those people are cray I've encountered many of them:

http://www.theopedia.com/supralapsarianism

"Supralapsarianism is the view that God, contemplating man as yet unfallen, chose some to receive eternal life and rejected all others. So a supralapsarian would say that the reprobate (non-elect) vessels of wrath fitted for destruction (Rom. 9:22) were first ordained to that role, and then the means by which they fell into sin was ordained. In other words, supralapsarianism suggests that God's decree of election logically preceded His decree to permit Adam's fall—so that their damnation is first of all an act of divine sovereignty, and only secondarily an act of divine justice."

 

[digdug2k]

Its gonna be ok though now guys. The Christians are praying for him. I don't think people really realized that during the election. They'll pray. God will make sure nothing bad happens to anyone. Problem solved.

Just thank God that bitch with the emails didn't get into office. She thought the law didn't even apply to her. Can you imagine what she'd do in office?

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

As a Christian, one of the most infuriating aspects of so called "Christians" is the disgusting dismissal and treatment of non-Christians, Atheists, Muslims, and any one who follows a faith other than Christian. And then they hide behind their faith when this bullshit is called out.

Christ would be ashamed if he saw what his followers were enforcing in his name. He taught love and respect and acceptance of your fellow man. I could easily see him standing up for the rights of Muslims, LGBTQ people, and other minorities. Christianity is supposed to be about understanding and good will. It's deplorable what Christians are imposing and attempting to impose on their fellow man. It makes me really, really angry.

Here's what I think.

I am a Christian, but I am also a black man, the son of immigrants. What I see of Christians today, especially the #MAGA or America First kind, is not the Christianity espoused in the Bible, but the Cultural Christianity Reichard Spencer spoke of. When they speak of healing their country, they speak of White Ascendancy, White Power, White America.

These are the kind of people who try to "heal" gay people with "conversion camps," who want the power to legally persecute and ostracize them. The kind who see all Muslims as suspects, as potential radicals just waiting to break. The kind who see Hispanic/Latin people as moochers here to steal their resources (ironic, considering Imperialism). Who see black people as thugs and vagabonds and welfare cases, druggies and listless individuals who would get ahead if they just buckled down and pulled on those bootstraps.

These are the kinds of people who had no problem leaving Sunday service and finding niggers to lynch. Who had no problem jailing, beating, torturing, burning, strangling, bombing, and straight up slaughtering black men and women for daring to claim the promise of equal rights under the law. Because America was their God-given inheritance, a gift to the ennobled White man, who was meant to guide the world from his lighthouse of a country.

This is what you face off against. Christians who couldn't care less about the actual word of God, unless it plays to their own agenda of domination. Christians who, above all else, desperately lust for the power of the State to remake the country in their own image. Christians who will demand conformity or issue persecution. Christians who will excuse all manner of immorality and evil, simply to achieve their goals. The ends justify the means, and as history has shown, the means are unspeakable evils.

America is the Cultural Christian's heaven on earth. That's why they fight as desperately as they do for "their country." The little part of the gospels where Jesus talks about returning to take back all who believe (Jew, Gentile, Free, Slave, Black, White), is conveniently ignored.

Christ is ashamed of these so-called "followers." Which is why He said he'd be handing out Ls to people who will scream that they did what they did in His name. "Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you." Cultural Christians have fashioned a god after their own likeness, and the original will have much to say about that.

This isn't a riff against White people. This is a riff against "White-above-all" people.