- having a 50 person capacity to pull from, where only three are essential to the story
- shitty elemental battle system that in no way resembles CT
- retarded story
- retarded 'plot twist'
- letdown of a final boss
- painfully annoying way to beat said boss to view 'good' ending
- turning one of the most badass characters (Magus) into a sissy (Guile)
Then yeah, I guess I would have to retract my statement.
- One of the knocks against CC was the lack of development of these number of characters. However, I still have fun with it, and the development of the core characters was cool with me.
- I was addicted as all hell to the battle system when the game hit. As a mattaer of fact, so was THIS ENTIRE FORUM. It's done it's usual backlash/turn around since then like it does with many other games.
- Story was great. Took events of the first game and ran with it. Hell, KEY points of CC's history relates directly back to characters actions of CT. Not to mention is does clean up a loose end or two of CT. Besides, any time you fuck around with time travel/time lines in a storyline, things will get screwy. Even CT was in this regard.
- Which plot twist, because I remember a good couple of moments where it caught me off guard.
- Final Boss was cool with me. It was almost surreal. A different feelings going into the boss fight than other RPGs.
- Painfully annoying? Nah.
- Magus was NOT Guile in Chrono Cross. Magus WAS Guile in Radical Dreamers (the text game). However, the two are NOT the same in CC.
Both games are damn good in their own right. I really have no idea what kind of "true sequel" people would like besides one with Magus. Storyline wise, any sequel will undue and fuck with the events of the first game (after all, this is a time based series, you will undue and fuck with everything). It sounds to me more like people would just like a remake of Chrono Trigger more than anything. Shit, I know I would. Bringon Chrono Break though, the time to be addicted (and then watch the forum backlash) is here =)
Cross had it's problems but I guess not having played Trigger(watched some friends play the final battle, and I know the basic gist of its story) allowed me to overlook any storyline problems it might have in reference to Trigger.
I enjoyed the story but much of the enjoyment of Cross for me was the mood set by the look of the game combined with its music. Cross is easily one of my favorite soundtracks.
Graphics: CC >> CT
Music: CC >>>> CT
Gameplay/Battle system: CC> CT
Story: CT >> CC
Characters: CT >> CC
And I really wanted to like the story and the characters in CC, but I just couldn't. I still appreciate that Square tried to do something VERY different though. For example, it's the only RPG I've ever played where you can run from EVERY battle in the game, at any time.
Chrono Cross has the best overworld music of any game. In fact, it has the best music, in my opinion, of any RPG.
That said, I hated the combat system and character development. It was too convoluted and by the time you get to the second disc where the story starts to unfold, you simply don't care anymore. When I finally reached Chronopolis, I simply didn't want to play the game anymore.
I'd rather look at the art posted by DeadStar than play the game again.
Chrono Cross has the best overworld music of any game. In fact, it has the best music, in my opinion, of any RPG.
That said, I hated the combat system and character development. It was too convoluted and by the time you get to the second disc where the story starts to unfold, you simply don't care anymore. When I finally reached Chronopolis, I simply didn't want to play the game anymore.
I'd rather look at the art posted by DeadStar than play the game again.
I don't think there will be another Chrono game, the whole team quit Square Enix and is now working at Monolith. Even if another Chrono game is made it won't have the magic of CT and CC. Sqaure Enix has lost a lot of talent in the past few years
f they make another chrono game, they should just steal level 5's engine for DQ8 and adapt it a bit, this game more then anything needs toriyamas artwork. To disagree with that is to have poor taste. I could care less if crono looked like goku, or that marle looked like bulma it's still better art then that angsty scratchy garbage they had in Chrono Cross.
I'm sorry, but no. CT doesn't have near the mood or surreal quality of CC - which is something CC pulls off masterfully. This can be attributed to the art in CC as well as the music - which is perhaps the greatest videogame score ever conceived. Anyone that isn't awed the minute the battle with FATE (quite possibly the best rendered and modeled boss ever done on the PSX) starts and that music takes over is dead inside - Chronopolis was so full of mood it was crazy.
CT had it's own style too, but I never got engulfed in the mood and "feel" of the surroundings like I did in CC - MAYBE, when you're at the End of Time where all the time gates are and the old man, but CC had mood out of the wazoo.
Culex said:
That said, I hated the combat system and character development. It was too convoluted and by the time you get to the second disc where the story starts to unfold, you simply don't care anymore. When I finally reached Chronopolis, I simply didn't want to play the game anymore.
I really liked the battle system at the time. It might grate to me now, but you move on and play new things, so oh well. But I never understand the complaints with there being four-hundred characters or whatever. Fine, pick one or two to use and stick with them, that's what I did. Sure I may have missed out on some inconsequential plot points, but that's what FAQs are for. The main story arc was fine, though it is odd when you realize it's basically a "gaiden" game.
And as was said, Magus is not Guile in CC. It's been mentioned in interviews with the developers that originally he was supposed to be, but they decided to change that and not make him Magus. I do feel that some integral inclusion of Magus into the storyline would have helped validate the fact that it turns out to be a side-story about Schala's fate though.
I really need to download the story FAQs for both games again and get the story straight in my head, I like how they intertwined, but it wasn't always clear and a bit hard to follow (on CC's end, CT is rather straightforward and easy to follow).
I can't believe that I still have Vargant Story, Legend of Mana, Threads of Fate, Chrono Cross, and the backpack all still sealed and buried in my closet all these years. Really late to the party to join in to the love or hate.
I belong to the group that likes them both. Why try outwitting eachother regarding which is better? I'd rather discuss what strong points of each game should be implemented in a new game, and what direction the story on a possible third Chrono game should take. I think presentation in visuals and music is (well, duh) better implemented in CC, however, CT had a more 'exciting', adventurous vibe, less fantastical/original enviroments but more recognizible (children's)book stuff. I'd love to see the sheer quality of CC combined with the CT playfulness. No more teenage angst but genuine (maybe even childish) adventure.
I was under the impression that Horii really didn't have much to do with the game.
I do agree though. Chrono Cross was completely lacking in the qualities that made me love CT. I think it's a pretty good game though, once I came to realize that it wasn't what I expected. It has a really good battle system. I still hate the character design and art direction though.
When it comes to the gameplay I think CC improves and regresses.
I REALLY like the stamina system it is FAR better than CT's normal attacking pattern, but I think forgoing mp and limiting the times you can use moves was dumb. I think copying the materia system was also pretty squimish. I liked that each character had their own array of techniques, this is also a reason why characters suck in CC. The leveling up system went about things the wrong way.
Basically give CT the stamina system and you would have had gold. And of course fixing the part where most magic spells/techniques were useless at the end of CT.
If they announce a new Chrono game (not happening), let it be for DS so they can show two concurrent time periods or dimensions at the same time, which would allow realtime alterations based on your actions in one time period/world. That could be very, very cool if implemented correctly.
If they announce a new Chrono game (not happening), let it be for DS so they can show two concurrent time periods or dimensions at the same time, which would allow realtime alterations based on your actions in one time period/world. That could be very, very cool if implemented correctly.
There really isn't any need to see two things happening at once.
Where would the second screen focus on? And what would it show that couldn't be shown in a cutscene if need be? Does the interuption in gameplay really differ from the interuption of looking down onto the second screen to see what's going on?
This is excellent news. The music from CC was my favorite part of it, and an arrange album is awesome. The project that Mitsuda and Kato, Krite, sounds interesting as well. Couldn't find anything on the publisher that they are using, Sleigh Bells, though.
I too enjoy noticing approximately equal periods of time difference as mentioned in the first post. The time between me playing CT and CC being announced couldn't have been much over 3 years, but it seems like it was much longer than the time from playing CC until now. Another such weirdity is that FF Anthology is now older than FF III was when it was included in FF Anthology.
Hello GAF! I like to be an idiot! said:
There really isn't any need to see two things happening at once.
Where would the second screen focus on? And what would it show that couldn't be shown in a cutscene if need be? Does the interuption in gameplay really differ from the interuption of looking down onto the second screen to see what's going on?
There's already a puzzle/action game using an idea similar to what he's talking about coming for GBA: Chronos Twin. The point being that if you had, say, the past on one screen and the future on the other, then by opening a treasure chest in the past you'd see it no longer available in the future, or maybe plant a tree and you'd see the gigantic tree in the future. Of course, since something like Chrono Trigger worked best using many more than two time periods that would complicate matters.
JS, the point I'm trying to make is that being able to see something happening in another scene doesn't need to happen on a seperate screen, especially since your attention is already averted.
The game would have to focus on a specific scene in which is being changed, and to show the change you could simply create a cutscene that takes the place of the current gameplay screen which you wouldn't be looking at or controlling while watching the second screen.
Graphics: CC >> CT
Music: CC >>>> CT
Gameplay/Battle system: CC> CT
Story: CT >> CC
Characters: CT >> CC
And I really wanted to like the story and the characters in CC, but I just couldn't. I still appreciate that Square tried to do something VERY different though. For example, it's the only RPG I've ever played where you can run from EVERY battle in the game, at any time.
OK you are insane. The battle system in CT owns CC to hell and back. Try beating the game without levelling up a lot and beating it as quickly as possible. That way you are forced to use the battle system better. I beat the game in 8 hours from start to finish. The best experience with an RPG battle ssytem i have ever had.
- having a 50 person capacity to pull from, where only three are essential to the story
- shitty elemental battle system that in no way resembles CT
- retarded story
- retarded 'plot twist'
- letdown of a final boss
- painfully annoying way to beat said boss to view 'good' ending
- turning one of the most badass characters (Magus) into a sissy (Guile)
1)I see your point about them not being "essential to the story," as really only Lynx, Harle, Serge, & Kid really are, but it still didn't bother me. In fact, I saw the 44 character thing as a Suikoden-esque "Form a party from this huge roster." set-up. Granted, it didn't work as well as in those games, but there are still a lot of party members that you could substitute in for their unique attacks, their elemental levels, dual-wielding, certain innate colors, etc. Personally, I loved the set-up.
2)It wasn't "shitty" at all. In fact, it's one of my favorite battle systems ever, with the only nitpicks being that the combo system disappoints compared to CT, and that character Techs are only usable once per battle (that irked me, especially when Steal missed). It not resembling Chrono Trigger much is a good thing, though, as ATB was growing stale even then.
3 & 4)Well, it being "retarded" is entirely subjective, but I loved how it directly continued upon Trigger, and intertwined the two endings (Reptile & Human) to form the two dimensions. If anything, I think the Fate extension on the storyline was probably the best way they could continue the original. Many people complain about them "screwing with the events of Trigger," but as Kintaro said, you can't have a direct sequel to these games without that happening in some form.
And the twists were fine, IMO. They throw a lot at you at once, however, and I think that's something they should work on -- but once you "get" it all, it all fits together nicely and explains what happens in the two dimensions between the 3 opposing forces (Fate, Lavos, & the Dragons).
5 & 6)I half agree here. He was a major pushover combat-wise, even with Serge alone. However, I did like the "Chrono Cross" method of winning the battle, as it called for something different than simply "overpower the boss," and I really dig battles like that.
7)As Kintaro said, there isn't any proof to him being Magus. And I completely disagree about him being a sissy, as he's the best character to choose early-on (for the Viper Manor quest), and ends up with the best Elemental Grid in the game.
Great Wasabi Man said:
Chrono Trigger had
- A hero that was just a kid in the wrong place at the wrong time
- 5 differnt "Times"
- 15 plus endings
- kick ass story
- cool character designs
- Frog
- a few differnt ways to beat lavos
- Crono Dies
- a nice combo system
- cool little things that make games good (like killing Magus and seeing Glenn in the good ending, giving the greedy man's ancestors money changed him into a giving man, etc.)
- 7 differnt characters all with unique stories that tied into the main story...they all had a purpose.
Chrono Cross had
- you typical the world revolves around me square hero
- 2 dimension fo the SAME EXACT layout
- 2 endings
- Lame story boring ass "luke I am your father" story seen iin many square stories.
- Really horrible character designs that looked like bad fan art.
- Glenn the not quite frog but you had to connect the game together some how.
- one way to beat the last guy to get the good ending
- Serge turns into Lynx cause...it's you ssdd square game.
- Lame combo system
- ....umm...it had FMV's....!?
- too many character that all but 3 ended up being filler.
Trying to keep this fairly short, so I won't reply to everything:
Chrono Trigger:
1)That was a big SquareSoft cliche at the time, so I'm surprised you didn't list it as a complaint.
3)It's actually 12 endings + variations.
5)Recolored Dragonball Z characters = cool character designs? Excuse me while I gag.
6)This is in Cross, too.
7)
Serge dies.
8)What about the ability in Cross to take characters to see their "other selves"? It's pretty similar, really.
Chrono Cross:
1)Yup, pretty big cliche, though the game doesn't revolve around Serge as much as it lets on (
it's more about Schala & Kid; even Kid is the reason Serge didn't die and is throwing off the dimensional balance
).
2)A lot of areas are only accessible in a certain dimension, so it keeps things pretty different.
3)Way off, it's 11 endings + variations.
4)That's only a (very) tiny twist in the overall arc.
5)... taste, I hate how it's so scarce when it comes to art on this board.
6)Glenn isn't Frog at all. Though, I don't see the comment about this being the only thing that connects the two games, as there are connections to Trigger all over the place. I honestly don't see how you missed them...
7)Yes, one way to beat him to get the Good Ending, this is true. However, there are 10 others that are seen by beating him physically at certain points, with certain party configurations, with Serge alone, etc -- just like in Trigger.
8)What does "ssdd" mean?
10)See what I said about the 'other selves' earlier.
I really don't know where you got your ending counts.
Doom_Bringer said:
I don't think there will be another Chrono game, the whole team quit Square Enix and is now working at Monolith.
Chrono Trigger's lead programmer formed Skip! Ltd.; Cross's story writer, Masato Kato, is with Monolith Software now; various other Trigger members left before Cross; etc. However, the rest of the team (or, more accurately, that production studio) is currently working on Final Fantasy XI & other PlayOnline projects.
I dunno, I'm not out to put hate on the whole Chrono Trigger vibe at all.. but a friend of mine related something that I found mildly amusing.
"NA gamers have had two big RPGs that revolutionized their viewpoint of what an RPG is supposed to be and they can proudly proclaim them as the throne title. Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VII. More often than not these two titles also happen to be their first proper Jap RPG."
I have played through it like everyone else - bar me hunting every single English RPG released on SNES back in the day. Yes it was a great RPG but all this praise and constant "we need a true sequel!" reminds me of the whole FFVII hype that derailed it in my vision (yes FFVII is a great game and the scope of the storyline & characters are vast... just like every other Final Fantasy).
Like I said, no hate on CT or FFVII or Saga Frontier or whatever. I just find it amusing that most people are like this.
This, folks, is the reason why threads like this exist. Yes, these games were good (well...only one was, IMO)...but they also get far too much praise no thanks to nostalgia
See, it's funny people really like to play the nostalgia card when it comes to older games. They may be right sometimes, but in the case of Chrono Trigger I feel they are dead wrong. I played the game for the first time only three years ago and I place it as one of my favorites of all time (usually either it or mario 3 as my #1 depending on what day it is), so there's no nostalgia for me. It just holds its own as a great game.
I would love to see a new Chrono game released this year, in honor of its 10-year anniversary. My guess is that they are either working on a compilation or a new entry in the series. That's probably wishful thinking, though.
Oh and if Square wouldn't of stopped me, you'd all be playing Resurrection right now...
See, it's funny people really like to play the nostalgia card when it comes to older games. They may be right sometimes, but in the case of Chrono Trigger I feel they are dead wrong. I played the game for the first time only three years ago and I place it as one of my favorites of all time (usually either it or mario 3 as my #1 depending on what day it is), so there's no nostalgia for me. It just holds its own as a great game.
OK you are insane. The battle system in CT owns CC to hell and back. Try beating the game without levelling up a lot and beating it as quickly as possible. That way you are forced to use the battle system better. I beat the game in 8 hours from start to finish. The best experience with an RPG battle ssytem i have ever had.
Chrono Trigger is the greatest videogame EVER MADE
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!
And it behooves SE to make either a 2D sequel or a remake using the DQ8 engine. Can you guys imagine what it would be like playing CT sequel using the DQ8 engine on a giant HDTV Plasma or LCD screen? Can you say....**DROOOL** ?
I don't understand how you -anybody- can consider Chrono Cross a good sequel to one of the best games of all time.
Square took everything that made Chrono Trigger a great game and ran with the ball in the completely opposite direction.
-Memorable characters
-A story that masterfully weaved every one of those characters into it
-Classic RPG battle elements mixed with double/triple techs.
-Multiple endings that were dependent on when you beat Lavos
-New Game + (At least, I don't think CC had it, I never put it back in my system)
Two things going for Chrono Cross are the soundtrack and background/level art. It's beautiful to look at it.
Fate/Dragons/Serge/Lynx/Kid can go to hell.
In Chrono Trigger anytime you did something, there was always a sense of accomplishment. The feeling that you and your unlikely crew had just changed time. From helping Ayla to rescuing the Queen with Frog, Trigger did an excellent job of making you care about not only the characters, but the very world in itself. It is in that I find that Chrono Cross fails absolutely miserably. If Chrono Cross were a game by any other name, it would've been an average to even above average. But the whole game I was looking for a point where I felt like this was truly a sequel to Trigger and it never happened.
I would love to see a new Chrono game released this year, in honor of its 10-year anniversary. My guess is that they are either working on a compilation or a new entry in the series. That's probably wishful thinking, though.
Oh and if Square wouldn't of stopped me, you'd all be playing Resurrection right now...
...I hope you're still secretely working on it, and somehow it mysteriously appears all over the net!! But I guess that's just wishful thinking as well....
I see it like this:
CT - great graphics for its time, story is ok for a japanese RPG, characters are really typical (although I think in a lot of ways they set the trend for the japanese RPG stereotypes for the most part)
CC - awesome battle system and generally good gameplay (far more involving than CT with the combos and field system), ok storyline (it's fun that it's based upon TWO endings of CT, but otherwise it just isn't all that great and honestly feels pretty empty), atrocious characters
CT isn't my favorite SNES RPG (that'd be Lufia 2) and for the most part, I don't think it's aged very well. What both games have that still rocks is their soundtracks.
Let me tell you guys how I feel about this game. I first bought it back in 1995 when I was 22 years old. I loved it and played it to death on my 21 inch TV. Now this is going to sound crazy, but during that year I played Chrono Trigger over 12 times. It was nothing short of an orgasmic experience and changed the way I look at RPGs. The thing is, I haven't touched or seen the game in nearly 10 YEARS!!!
Why? Because the game is so good, it's so ridiculously off tha hook, it's such a masterpiece, that I vowed not to play it until I can afford to buy the best, most top of the line home theater room for a new home, build it and then play CT on a 100" front projection screen with full surround sound and in a nice comfortable leather chair! THAT is how I plan of revisiting this classic game. I do not want to tarnish the experience by playing it on anything less than a huge 100" projection screen. So you just know that I wouldn't dream of buying a GBA or DS version. Still don't my front projector yet but I'm working on it, so it's gonna be a while.
-Classic RPG battle elements mixed with double/triple techs.
-Multiple endings that were dependent on when you beat Lavos
-New Game + (At least, I don't think CC had it, I never put it back in my system)
Final Fantasy 4 with double/triple techs.
Chrono Cross also had multiple endings dependant on when you beat the final boss.
New Game+ in Chrono Cross was better. The fast forward option was a neat addition that should be in all RPGs.
Square took everything that made Chrono Trigger a great game and ran with the ball in the completely opposite direction.
-Memorable characters
-A story that masterfully weaved every one of those characters into it
-Classic RPG battle elements mixed with double/triple techs.
-Multiple endings that were dependent on when you beat Lavos
-New Game + (At least, I don't think CC had it, I never put it back in my system)
Don't know if this was posted already but most of the original chrono trigger team is working at Monolith (most of the devs were on Baten Kaitos). Didn't play it but was supposed to be pretty decent.
Let me tell you guys how I feel about this game. I first bought it back in 1995 when I was 22 years old. I loved it and played it to death on my 21 inch TV. Now this is going to sound crazy, but during that year I played Chrono Trigger over 12 times. It was nothing short of an orgasmic experience and changed the way I look at RPGs. The thing is, I haven't touched or seen the game in nearly 10 YEARS!!!
Why? Because the game is so good, it's so ridiculously off tha hook, it's such a masterpiece, that I vowed not to play it until I can afford to buy the best, most top of the line home theater room for a new home, build it and then play CT on a 100" front projection screen with full surround sound and in a nice comfortable leather chair! THAT is how I plan of revisiting this classic game. I do not want to tarnish the experience by playing it on anything less than a huge 100" projection screen. So you just know that I wouldn't dream of buying a GBA or DS version. Still don't my front projector yet but I'm working on it, so it's gonna be a while.
I don't think CT would look that great on a 100" screen. Surely the pixels would be enlarged to the point that they look rather ugly compared to how they'd look on a more normal sized TV.
Idono thinking about it I can't think what I really wanted in a chrono trigger sequel.. the same thing most final fantasy sequels offer I guess... well maybe closer to breath of fire or something.
See Chrono Trigger was the first console RPG I actually played and enjoyed so it has an impossible to top standard, much like how Final Fantasy 6 is the first FF game I really liked(I played it after chrono trigger for those sticklers who would point out that its a year older stateside... ).
Quite honestly I'd have been content if Chrono Trigger never got a sequel at all. Give me a full blown remake with DQ8's engine though and I'd be very happy.
I don't think CT would look that great on a 100" screen. Surely the pixels would be enlarged to the point that they look rather ugly compared to how they'd look on a more normal sized TV.
That's a good point MASB. But it's hard to say with certainty if or how CT would look blown up to a screen of 100" or more. From the research I've done, there are plently of LCD and DLP projectors that do a good job of antialaising the image so it doesn't look to jaggy. And...with an emu such as ZSNES, it allows you play with a variety of different screen res tweaks such as TV, Normal, Eagle2x, Sai2x, etc.
Only someone with access to a front projector such as DaCockyBrova, CDharlie, or KLee can say for certain though.
Chrono Trigger's lead programmer formed Skip! Ltd.; Cross's story writer, Masato Kato, is with Monolith Software now; various other Trigger members left before Cross; etc. However, the rest of the team (or, more accurately, that production studio) is currently working on Final Fantasy XI & other PlayOnline projects.
The two Skip guys were map designers not programmers, and Kato is freelance. Otherwise you're basically right. The original CT was made by mostly Final Fantasy staff, so a lot of them went on to work on FF7 and later FF games, with only part of the team branching off to make Xenogears and Chrono Cross.
The two Skip guys were map designers not programmers, and Kato is freelance. Otherwise you're basically right. The original CT was made by mostly Final Fantasy staff, so a lot of them went on to work on FF7 and later FF games, with only part of the team branching off to make Xenogears and Chrono Cross.
That is incorrect. The Skip guys were, and are infact, programmers and Kato continues to work with them. He is not doing freelance. He and the skip guys are working for Bungie on the Halo 2.5 sequel. Bungie recruited them about 6 months ago after seeing the work they did on FFXI.
Chrono Trigger=awesome story with crap characters (the only characters I cared about by the end were the robot and Magus) and boring battles (why use strategy when you can just spam the same two or three double techs the whole game?)
Chrono Cross=awesome story with crap characters (the only characters I cared about by the end were the mermaid and Miki, because I like breasts) and boring battles (why use strategy when you can just spam the same six or seven spells the whole game?)
I dunno If I would put Cross above Trigger, but I thought Cross was a fantastic sequel and I loved the game a great deal. And it doesn't have those god awful Toriyama art/designs!
But I guess that's just wishful thinking as well....
