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[Foamy]

Its official. Over a hundred years of tradition down the drain because its supposedly offensive to indigenous groups.

www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/cleveland-owner-confirms-team-process-changing-indians-name/sn-amp/

Personally I don't think they need to change the name at all and only need to make minor changes to the logo and mascot.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Changing the name to what? The Cleveland Steamers?

 

[Foamy]

Changing the name to what? The Cleveland Steamers?

Id totally buy a jersey and hat if they did.

 

[Gonpachiro Kamaboko]

the Cleveland “not-racists“. Good luck criticizing me now.

 

[EverydayBeast]

It’s the right move

 

[Tuff McNutt]

Its official. Over a hundred years of tradition down the drain because its supposedly offensive to indigenous groups.

www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/cleveland-owner-confirms-team-process-changing-indians-name/sn-amp/

Personally I don't think they need to change the name at all and only need to make minor changes to the logo and mascot.

It is incredibly offensive to native people and should have been changed years ago.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Named for this man here Louis Sockalexis

Believed to be the first Native American to play in MLB. Played for Cleveland when they were the Spiders 1897-1899. It is possible he was not the first. He died in 1913.

Cleveland was changing their name from the Naps. Nap Lajoie had left the team at the end of the 1914 season. He was a player and manager for the team.

 

[Thabass]

Changing their name to the Cleveland Baseball Club.

 

[DESTROYA]

It is incredibly offensive to native people and should have been changed years ago.

Actually not really, even most native Americans don’t give a shit.
Stop making this perceived outrage when there is none.

How Do Native Americans Feel About Their Culture Being Depicted by Sports Teams? | Uni Watch

Uni Watch Blog readers of Native American descent were recently invited to share their thoughts regarding the use of Native American iconography in sports. Here are the responses that were submitted.

uni-watch.com

 

[Amory]

I think most people understood getting rid of the Redskins name. I know some fans of the team who would argue to keep the name for hours if you'd let them, but at the end of the day 'Redskins' just sounds outdated at best whether the original intent was good or not.

But this is the first I'm hearing that the name "Indians" was causing problems. I thought the problem was the caricatured 'Chief Wahoo' logo, which they were phasing out anyway. I wonder if the name would've had to change if they'd never used that logo. I'm guessing not.

 

[Tuff McNutt]

Actually not really, even most native Americans don’t give a shit.
Stop making this perceived outrage when there is none.

How Do Native Americans Feel About Their Culture Being Depicted by Sports Teams? | Uni Watch

Uni Watch Blog readers of Native American descent were recently invited to share their thoughts regarding the use of Native American iconography in sports. Here are the responses that were submitted.

uni-watch.com

There are 10 quotes on that page from some random blog and 7 of them have at least some issue with the use of names/iconography.

 

[DeepBreath87]

So are we just going to remove all references to native Americans in popular culture that aren’t fawning oppressions stories taught in public school history classes? Because those are not very popular. I have a feeling this is just going to end up further erasing their existence.

 

[DESTROYA]

There are 10 quotes on that page from some random blog and 7 of them have at least some issue with the use of names/iconography.

Every issue is pretty minor and they still say it’s OK if the use it in a respectful way.
So it maybe some random blog but it still shows most dont give it much thought, at least I brought something to the table besides words.

 

[Foamy]

Every time indigenous people have been polled about American team names like The Braves, Redskins and Indians overwhelming majority have been proud of the name. But for that 1 in 10 who don't like it you have an army of thousands of bored white people who get outraged on their behalf.

 

[TTOOLL]

New name will be "Cleveland Baseball Team"

 

[#Phonepunk#]

won't be long before my beloved Braves do the same

farewell, Chief Noc-A-Homa

Chief Noc-A-Homa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Every issue is pretty minor and they still say it’s OK if the use it in a respectful way.
So it maybe some random blog but it still shows most dont give it much thought, at least I brought something to the table besides words.

Actually I think a number of polls done over the last decade of not more has shown vast majority don’t care.

Both my father and grandfather who were life long Redskin fans. All my family on his side were Redskin fans last I checked. Fans based on location of a team based on their own. My grandfather was the only hold out of being an Orioles fan.

 

[Nymphae]

They should just hire all Indians, problem solved

 

[DESTROYA]

Actually I think a number of polls done over the last decade of not more has shown vast majority don’t care.

Both my father and grandfather who were life long Redskin fans. All my family on his side were Redskin fans last I checked. Fans based on location of a team based on their own. My grandfather was the only hold out of being an Orioles fan.

Thats the point I’m making, most Native Americans could care less unless you use the Image or name in a disrespectful way.
Sure there are exceptions but they are pretty few and far in between so let us who have no skin in the game be outraged for those that actually should be. It’s stupid.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Thats the point I’m making, most Native Americans could care less unless you use the Image or name in a disrespectful way.
Sure there are exceptions but they are pretty few and far in between so let us who have no skin in the game be outraged for those that actually should be. It’s stupid.

Yeah. I was just saying that multiple polls had said this. Years before Washington changed their name.

Some Whites feel uncomfortable and have decided it is offensive.

 

[Amory]

Thats the point I’m making, most Native Americans could care less unless you use the Image or name in a disrespectful way.
Sure there are exceptions but they are pretty few and far in between so let us who have no skin in the game be outraged for those that actually should be. It’s stupid.

There's definitely opposition from native americans, it's not a movement that lefty white people just made up one day when they couldn't find anything else to be pissed about.

Washington Redskins' name, Native mascots offend more than previously reported - Berkeley News

A majority of Native Americans polled by a UC Berkeley researcher object to caricatures of their culture

news.berkeley.edu

Contrary to polls showing that relatively few Native Americans take offense at the Washington Redskins’ name, a new UC Berkeley study has found that at least half of more than 1,000 Native Americans surveyed are offended by the football team’s 87-year-old moniker and Native mascots in general.

The results are particularly timely in the face of Native American protests against caricatures of their culture, including the tomahawk chop — performed by fans of the Kansas City Chiefs, who won Sunday’s Super Bowl — and other sports teams with Native American monikers.

The study’s findings, published in the journal of Social Psychological and Personality Science, show that the degree to which those surveyed identified as Native American influenced how offensive they found Native mascots.

Of those polled for the study, 57% who strongly identify with being Native American and 67% of those who frequently engage in tribal cultural practices were found to be deeply insulted by caricatures of Native American culture.

Basically they found if a person is Liz-Warren-tier ""Native American"", then they're far more likely to say they don't care about this stuff. But the more engaged a person was with tribal business and identity, the more likely they were to say they found the team names and mascots offensive.

The researchers recruited more than 1,000 self-identified adult Native Americans representing 50 states and 148 tribes using the Qualtrics online survey platform. The cohort varied widely in age, gender, socio-economic status, level of education, political ideology, tribal affiliation and Native American political and cultural involvement.

On a scale of 1 to 7, study participants were asked to disagree or agree with a selection of statements, some of which were adapted from the 2016 Washington Post poll.

For example, they were asked to agree or disagree with statements such as, “I think the term ‘redskin’ is respectful to Native Americans,” “I find it offensive when sports fans wear chief headdresses at sporting events” and “When sports fans chant the tomahawk chop, it bothers me.”

Overall, 49% of participants in the UC Berkeley study were found to strongly agree or agree that the Washington Redskins’ name is offensive, while 38% were not bothered by it. The remainder were undecided or indifferent.

However, the number of those offended rose for study participants who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures (67%), young people (60%) and people with tribal affiliations such as members of federally recognized tribes (52%).

I don't believe there's any offense intended in these names or mascots or gestures. In modern times, anyway. It's just sports fandom. I also think people who are fans of the Indians or the Braves or the (former) Redskins are probably more likely to seek out knowledge around native american tribes and history than the average joe, which can be a positive thing.

So I get why there's resistance from fans to change any of it, because it's like being forced to agree that your passion in following the team all those years was somehow causing harm.

But if I'm a fan of one of these teams, arguing to keep the name when people from the depicted group are telling me it's offensive isn't really a battle I'm interested in having. I don't need 51% of a population to claim offense to change my mind. I'd rather just change it and move on. Which is probably what the ownership is thinking.

 

[Azzurri]

The Cleveland Coomers

 

[DeepBreath87]

There's definitely opposition from native americans, it's not a movement that lefty white people just made up one day when they couldn't find anything else to be pissed about.

Washington Redskins' name, Native mascots offend more than previously reported - Berkeley News

A majority of Native Americans polled by a UC Berkeley researcher object to caricatures of their culture

news.berkeley.edu

Basically they found if a person is Liz-Warren-tier ""Native American"", then they're far more likely to say they don't care about this stuff. But the more engaged a person was with tribal business and identity, the more likely they were to say they found the team names and mascots offensive.



I don't believe there's any offense intended in these names or mascots or gestures. In modern times, anyway. It's just sports fandom. I also think people who are fans of the Indians or the Braves or the (former) Redskins are probably more likely to seek out knowledge around native american tribes and history than the average joe, which can be a positive thing.

So I get why there's resistance from fans to change any of it, because it's like being forced to agree that your passion in following the team all those years was somehow causing harm.

But if I'm a fan of one of these teams, arguing to keep the name when people from the depicted group are telling me it's offensive isn't really a battle I'm interested in having. I don't need 51% of a population to claim offense to change my mind. I'd rather just change it and move on. Which is probably what the ownership is thinking.

What these people may not realize is that these kind of popular culture references do a lot to raise their visibility. If you remove all these sports references to Native Americans, most people will basically forget Native Americans exist. In the eastern part of the US, they basically don’t exist in any significant way. These teams are a harmless reminder.

Otherwise, people will only really hear anything about Native Americans from public school history classes, which no one really pays attention to.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Changing the name to what? The Cleveland Steamers?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

There's definitely opposition from native americans, it's not a movement that lefty white people just made up one day when they couldn't find anything else to be pissed about.

for sure. however i would say out of all the NA issues that are brought up, it seems to be almost exclusively culture war bs like this that matters. none of the left leaning people excited about this kind of virtue signalling will raise a stink if Biden tries bringing back the TPP. which is far more damaging to NA communities than any sports team mascot will ever be.

the reason issues like this get championed is so the left can get a pass when it really matters. they are fine to continue ignoring the exploitation of Native American (and in fact indigenous across the globe) land for their globalist designs so long as they "speak out" about stuff like this. Trump was against the TPP and Biden is for it, in fact, he wants to bring it back. but the left only cares about optics, so once again, a marginalized group will be exploited by the very people who make these grand gestures towards how much they care.

rename the sports team to whatever you want. no doubt NA communities will see it as a hollow gesture. it doesn't matter one bit as long as things like TPP are under serious consideration by so-called "allies".

 

[Soltype]

Cleveland Natives?They better replace it with something to do with Native Americans.

 

[Amory]

What these people may not realize is that these kind of popular culture references do a lot to raise their visibility. If you remove all these sports references to Native Americans, most people will basically forget Native Americans exist. In the eastern part of the US, they basically don’t exist in any significant way. These teams are a harmless reminder.

Otherwise, people will only really hear anything about Native Americans from public school history classes, which no one really pays attention to.

Oh, I agree. I think any benefit these teams provide in terms of public awareness / celebration has been completely discounted.

We'll always have the casinos I guess.

 

[GeorgPrime]

Its official. Over a hundred years of tradition down the drain because its supposedly offensive to indigenous groups.

www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/cleveland-owner-confirms-team-process-changing-indians-name/sn-amp/

Personally I don't think they need to change the name at all and only need to make minor changes to the logo and mascot.

Cleveland Boomers now or Cleveland Choomers

 

[quickwhips]

They will still stink and lose in the play offs. Rick vaughn isn't a wild thing anymore!

 

[Komatsu]

Wasn't the name "Indians" an homage to Louis Sockalexis, the first Native American signed by a major baseball franchise?

That said, this ad I think lays it out quite neatly why some NAs might find the name offensive:

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[DGrayson]

I'm fine with the change. Although I saw this coming so I got a classic Indians fitted had a couple years ago before they phased out the American Indian logo

 

[Musky_Cheese]

There's definitely opposition from native americans, it's not a movement that lefty white people just made up one day when they couldn't find anything else to be pissed about.

Sure no doubt. However to say it isn't a majority White movement is inaccurate.

They have been the Indians since 1915. That is 105 years now. The idea that large groups of Native Americans care is possible. After all every group is fighting for their share of the oppression pie. But that has never been enough to sway opinions regardless.

Basically they found if a person is Liz-Warren-tier ""Native American"", then they're far more likely to say they don't care about this stuff. But the more engaged a person was with tribal business and identity, the more likely they were to say they found the team names and mascots offensive.

There isn't such thing as Liz-Warren-tier ""Native American"" because she isn't one at all. However her type is the majority of the group backing the ideas to change the names.

But if I'm a fan of one of these teams, arguing to keep the name when people from the depicted group are telling me it's offensive isn't really a battle I'm interested in having. I don't need 51% of a population to claim offense to change my mind. I'd rather just change it and move on. Which is probably what the ownership is thinking.

Don't think that both sides of the argument doesn't have Native American participation. In the case of the Redskins, both sides were majority White and wanted to prop up in front Native Americans to go "SEE! They Agree with..."

The Redskins had fans that were Native American. People who were more than happy to wear the hat. And they were only upset with how shit the team was since the early 90's

The reality is the Redskins name, the Indians logo, and now the Indians name is being changed because White people want to do it. They want the owners to do it. They put pressure on the owners to do it.

 

[Amory]

Sure no doubt. However to say it isn't a majority White movement is inaccurate.

They have been the Indians since 1915. That is 105 years now. The idea that large groups of Native Americans care is possible. After all every group is fighting for their share of the oppression pie. But that has never been enough to sway opinions regardless.


There isn't such thing as Liz-Warren-tier ""Native American"" because she isn't one at all. However her type is the majority of the group backing the ideas to change the names.


Don't think that both sides of the argument doesn't have Native American participation. In the case of the Redskins, both sides were majority White and wanted to prop up in front Native Americans to go "SEE! They Agree with..."

The Redskins had fans that were Native American. People who were more than happy to wear the hat. And they were only upset with how shit the team was since the early 90's

The reality is the Redskins name, the Indians logo, and now the Indians name is being changed because White people want to do it. They want the owners to do it. They put pressure on the owners to do it.

If there are a significant number of native americans who are offended by the names, logos, or whatever (and it's clear that there are) then it's not something I'd argue against changing. For me, it's really as simple as that.

I take your point that there are native americans who don't mind any of it and don't want anything to change, but I also haven't seen them mounting any meaningful opposition.

They're just team names at the end of the day. They used to change constantly for no reason at all. At least this is a reason I can understand.

 

[cryptoadam]

I said in the other thread, but I would find the term Native American more offensive than Indian.

Think about it, in a way its an erasure of history since they are Native to "America", which is a made up name by some Italian colonizer. They are native to whatever they called this land before Europeans showed up.

I have no idea how that term got accepted. Aside from it being some PC term the white man foisted on natives.

Its like how Jews would never call themselves native Palestinians since Palestine is a made up Roman name that was coopted by Muslim Arabs.

First nations I get. Calling them by their tribal name I get. But Native Americans I don't understand how that isn't as offensive as Indians, which I don't even understand why thats offensive.

 

[Amory]

I said in the other thread, but I would find the term Native American more offensive than Indian.

Think about it, in a way its an erasure of history since they are Native to "America", which is a made up name by some Italian colonizer. They are native to whatever they called this land before Europeans showed up.

I have no idea how that term got accepted. Aside from it being some PC term the white man foisted on natives.

Its like how Jews would never call themselves native Palestinians since Palestine is a made up Roman name that was coopted by Muslim Arabs.

First nations I get. Calling them by their tribal name I get. But Native Americans I don't understand how that isn't as offensive as Indians, which I don't even understand why thats offensive.

From what I've read most obviously prefer their tribe name, and barring that, actually prefer 'Indian' to 'native American'. Basically for the reason you said. Not that 'Indian' is ideal, but at least it's not presumptuous I guess.

 

[teezzy]

I hope Detroit doesnt offend any large cats any time soon

 

[bicen]

I am hoping to go back to the Cleveland Spiders or even move to the Cleveland Guardians. Those are my top two picks.

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

I think most people understood getting rid of the Redskins name. I know some fans of the team who would argue to keep the name for hours if you'd let them, but at the end of the day 'Redskins' just sounds outdated at best whether the original intent was good or not.

But this is the first I'm hearing that the name "Indians" was causing problems. I thought the problem was the caricatured 'Chief Wahoo' logo, which they were phasing out anyway. I wonder if the name would've had to change if they'd never used that logo. I'm guessing not.

Fans of the team argued the shit because there was tons and tons of evidence that the name wasn’t offensive. The Washington post didn’t like the first poll taken because the outcome didn’t please them so they conducted one of their own that ended up resulting in the Native Americans approving of the name even more so than the first poll.

But at the end of the day the name changed not because it was offensive but because Fred Smith was trying to force Daniel Snyder into selling the team so FedEx came out and said the name should change. Fred Smith owns FedEx and he’s also a minority owner of the team. None of it had to do with FedEx suddenly finding their way, it all had to do with money. And as a fan of the team I’d gladly give the name away to get rid of Daniel Snyder so none of this shit matters that much to me. It just irritates the shit out of me when somebody isn’t a fan of the team, hasn’t had to argue the shit for years and suddenly up and decided it was offensive to them so it better go.