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CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL: Bush by 8
- Thread starter Tenguman
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Cerebral Palsy
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These polls are fucking stupid.
Alcibiades
Member
is this poll outside the margin of error and are you a Kerry supporter?
videogamer
Banned
Matlock said:
Apparently the mods are slacking off.
videogamer
Banned
Tenguman said:
Neither Nader nor LaRouche are leading
Phoenix
Member
HalfPastNoon said:well, yeah. for some reason, i thought you said landslide for bush..
Unfortunately it won't matter if he get 271 or 350. The second he crosses 270, the game is over. I think this will be close, but sadly its not going to matter much unless the Kerry camp can start to ssway more voters in the bg states.
N Coward Parody
Member
God, that Mary Cheney "controversy" was a brilliant political move. Reprehensible, despicable, but brilliant.
Honestly, I think no matter which way these polls swing they're ultimately inaccurate. They're just not taking into account the slew of newly registered (and might I add, incensed) voters across the country. They're what's going to decide this election. Not "undecideds," not the party's bases -- the pissed off newbies.
*Noel Coward Parody
Honestly, I think no matter which way these polls swing they're ultimately inaccurate. They're just not taking into account the slew of newly registered (and might I add, incensed) voters across the country. They're what's going to decide this election. Not "undecideds," not the party's bases -- the pissed off newbies.
*Noel Coward Parody
N Coward Parody said:
What on earth are you talking about? The only political move made in regards to Mary Cheney was by the Kerry camp - they brought it on themselves. The Cheney's have every right to be outraged about the Kerry camp bringing up a private family matter on a large televised event - TWICE. It was very innapropriate and now the left is trying to spin it into some vast conspiracy. Where has common sense gone?
videogamer
Banned
Makura said:
Is being gay something bad enough to be hidden away as some "private family matter"?
Reading some of the responses to the controversy has me laughing...some people are acting like being gay is a bad thing. To me, the so-called "outing" is comparable to telling people about your opponent's daugher's occupation. This information is well known and it is nothing bad either.
Mary Cheney is a grown up woman who works in politics.. she's not 12 year old Chelsea. She's not a naive young child who needs daddy's protection.
The whole mary thing really backfired on Kerry. I'm sure his goal was to shake up Bush's conservative base, but in the end I think it just made them more resolute :/
that seems to be a running theme in the kerry campaign though...backfires. Vietnam, bush NG records, lesbians
oh well, we'll see what happens. All I know is that the man who should win won't.
that seems to be a running theme in the kerry campaign though...backfires. Vietnam, bush NG records, lesbians
oh well, we'll see what happens. All I know is that the man who should win won't.
videogamer
Banned
Tenguman said:
Split the conservative base? It was a pretty positive statement and it fits perfectly with my worldview.
eggplant said:
In addition, she's been "out" for several years, she brought herself into the campaign when she started working for the campaign, and the context in which Kerry brought up her up - while a bit below the belt - is important to notice: The President had just said that he "doesn't know" if homosexuality is a choice (which disgusted me because it really underscored his overall ignorance), and Kerry "broke" a rule by all but asking him if he thinks his VP's own daughter made that "choice".
Bush needs things thrown in his face, but as we've known for four years now, even then he tends to ignore whatever it is you're trying to say.
oh come on......that statement could have been made without metioning Mary. Everyone knows the 3rd politcal debate is the debate where the candidates move back towards their base, and it's perfectly clear what Kerry wanted to do there. He deliberatly mentioned Mary to "remind" conservatives that the guy they're going to vote for has a VP who's daughter is gay.eggplant said:
Kerry is a smart guy, and he knew that this line would shake things up. I don't think he anticipated that it may backfire on him though. Or at least not as much as it may have done.
Alcibiades
Member
Cheney was not giving a speech, he was responding to a question about his daughter.JScott said:
Kerry was asked whether homosexuality was a choice, not about Dick Cheney's daughter.
Respecting her for being a lesbian is not an attempt to split the conservative base, but going out of your way to mention it twice on two major televised events IS in my opinion. It came off as a political dirty trick and the Kerry camp or anyone else for that matter shouldn't be surprised at the reaction is caused.
videogamer
Banned
Tenguman said:
Why would conservatives be against gay people? They profess to be only against homosexual acts, not homosexuals themselves. Not only that, any attempt against Bush's religious base would be of limited use because well... you know.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Makura said:
Sorry, but...no. This is a political move by the republicans. All Kerry did was mention her. Same as Edwards. Both had nothing but good things to say about the Cheney family I might add. Now the republicans are trying to make a controversy out of nothing. Where was this so called outrage a few weeks ago when Alan Keyes called Mary Cheney a sinner and a hedonist? Oh, thats right. He's a republican running against Barack Obama so that makes it okay. I forgot that the only person who isn't allowed to mention Mary Cheney is John Kerry.
Alcibiades
Member
true, while I agree more with Kerry on the issue than with Bush (and more than Howard Dean than with either), Kerry and Edwards IMO just looked totally like they were making a political move during those mentions, especially Kerry, since he wasn't even debating Cheney, and really didn't have to give out names.Makura said:
Why not mention Barney Franks, the Massachusettes congressman?
Was it a dirty political move? no, there's been much worse, though it seemed to me to be a purposeful political move...
Was it necessary at all? no, he could have just answered the question, and expanded without the mention, or mention someone he know personally (which would be more appropriate).
SolidSnakex
Member
Makura said:
Then why didn't Cheney get upset when Edwards brought her up?
Cheney's brought it up before, even recently:
"Asked his position on the subject at a town hall meeting in Davenport, Iowa, Cheney replied: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with. ... With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is that freedom means freedom for everyone. People ought to be able to free -- ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/25/MNGHQ8DV6Q1.DTL
If he doesn't want her being brought up in debates then he shouldn't be doing it either. It's no longer private when you're making it public.
eggplant said:
If that's the case, then why would Kerry mention Mary at all? He could have used someone that had no connections to the candidates at all. But he specifically used Mary and there is a REASON for that. The reason? To say "oh by the way conservatives, Dick's daughter is gay"
Maybe it wouldn't have much effect on the conservative base, but I think it's pretty clear that Kerry thought it would in some way shake it up a little.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Makura said:
If you say so Makura.
Tenguman said:
Maybe he just wanted to put a face on the issue? I don't see how this would split the conservative base at all. Everyone already knew she was gay. The conservatives are going to vote for Bush no matter what he does anyway.
Alcibiades
Member
he didn't give out her name though, and since it is his daughter, that's different from if he had brought up Gephardt's daughter or someone else...SolidSnakex said:
Besides, it's not impossible to be both thankful that Edwards/Kerry hold those feeling towards their family (and thankful there are Americans that think that way), and be upset that "Mary Cheney is fair game" (as the Kerry/Edwards camp puts it) at the debates and is injected into statements maybe not wrongfully, but definitely unnecessarily...
videogamer
Banned
Tenguman said:
My take on this: To show Kerry's base and social moderates how far to the right the Republican party has gone. It's to accentuate the difference between the parties on the issue. He's saying, "look, the so-called 'compassionate conservative' candidate of 2000 isn't all that welcoming to minorities".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/10/MNG0996S3R1.DTL
^^article on how the Bush administration's actions have turned off gay Republicans
JC10001 said:
I think that's a very real possiblity - in fact, watching the debate, that was my impression. Although it felt a little innappropriate because Edwards had already brought it up.
But I feel that Kerry or anyone else shouldn't be surprised that it came off to the Cheney family and others as a political move.
My guess is we probably wouldn't have even heard much about this from the Cheneys if minutes after the debate Kerry's campaign manager hadn't told Fox News that Mary Cheney was "fair game." Which no doubt confirmed any suspicion that it was a political move.
SolidSnakex
Member
efralope said:
She's a Lesbian/Gay activist which is a public position. It's not like she keeps hidden, she's out there.
"But I feel that Kerry or anyone else shouldn't be surprised that it came off to the Cheney family and others as a political move."
He should be when Cheney thanked Edwards for the compliment when he spoke about his daughter.
I don't understand why the Marry Cheney thing is an issue at all. What's wrong with pointing out that she is a lesbian? It's not the first time her sexuality has been brought up in the context of politics. It's not as though Kerry insulted her or the Cheney family with that comment.
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