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[SRG01]

My physics is probably off, but wouldn't less coffee mean that there's more energy from the water available to overcome the osmotic pressure of the less desirable compounds in each granule? My understanding, which might be wrong, is that the good compounds get extracted first at low energies, and too much energy, such as with a high temperature, or to
o much time, will start to extract oleic acid and other undesirables. If my coffee had bad tastes but wasn't too 'strong' I would consider adding more grounds and keeping the energy content ( water volume, temp and brew time) the same. Worth trying out in extremes to see what the general trends are at least.

Well, to the best of my knowledge, kind of. Think of the coffee as a granular filter affected by the grain size of the coffee. That is, what does affect extraction -- from nanoscale physics, to chemistry, to coffee -- is surface area to volume ratio. You're physically acting on a much greater volume by using a finer grind as more and more surface area is exposed to water. Having said all that, transit time for the fluid is important too since longer extraction times simply mean that the lower solubility compounds have more time to be extracted.

To use espresso as an example: given equal temperatures and extraction times, a coarse versus espresso grind gives entirely different results.

 

[Silkworm]

I followed the French press brewing instructions on Blue Bottle's website and they seemed to work okay for me. I used 40 g of beans with 400 g of boiling water. I'm a little worried about whether my burr grinder is working on the coarse setting but the pressure to push down on the grounds after brewing suggests that the grind wasn't too fine. Ah well, it was fun to try Blue Bottle's Three Africans since they offered a special on it a few weeks back of $6 for 6 oz. I might try subscribing to them but I don't think I'd go for more than 6 oz every four weeks because I just can't justified the cost of paying for more right now (need to keep on budget).

 

[thespot84]

Well, to the best of my knowledge, kind of. Think of the coffee as a granular filter affected by the grain size of the coffee. That is, what does affect extraction -- from nanoscale physics, to chemistry, to coffee -- is surface area to volume ratio. You're physically acting on a much greater volume by using a finer grind as more and more surface area is exposed to water. Having said all that, transit time for the fluid is important too since longer extraction times simply mean that the lower solubility compounds have more time to be extracted.

To use espresso as an example: given equal temperatures and extraction times, a coarse versus espresso grind gives entirely different results.

Makes sense, but how does that affect the ratio, given a constant grind? There's two functions going on as I can tell, 1) that if you have more water there's more energy and you will extract the lower solubility compounds, but 2) you have more water, so the lower solubility compounds are diluted. If you found your coffee to be over-extracted, but could only adjust the ratio, would you add more or less water?

 

[jwk94]

Hey guys, my girlfriend wants a coffee maker and I have no clue how to shop for these things. What's the best one I can buy with $150? thanks!

Quoting for a new page.

 

[SRG01]

Makes sense, but how does that affect the ratio, given a constant grind? There's two functions going on as I can tell, 1) that if you have more water there's more energy and you will extract the lower solubility compounds, but 2) you have more water, so the lower solubility compounds are diluted. If you found your coffee to be over-extracted, but could only adjust the ratio, would you add more or less water?

Well, you can make the case that more water = more mass = more energy. However, energy is also a direct function of temperature, which is more important with regards to extraction of soluble compounds. Generally hotter water = more extraction regardless of the compound.

Ultimately, it's difficult to talk about the volume of water with extraction because it's not actually the amount of water that does the extraction, but rather the amount of time the coffee is exposed to heated water. And that too is affected by the amount of coffee regardless of the coffee to water ratio since more coffee, especially at improper grinds, will affect the flow rate and thus the total extraction time -- not to mention that you'd be extracting more compounds from purely more coffee present.

If grind wasn't an issue and flow rate was okay but coffee was still overextracted, then I would paradoxically experiment with lowering the amount of water simply to avoid extracting the lower solubility compounds at the end of the extraction process -- like pulling a ristretto shot using half the volume of water. The problem with this approach is that without sufficient back pressure (which more water provides), you may end up with over-extracted coffee due the now-extended dwell time.

Dilution with lots more water would help too, since given a certain point the coffee has would be extracted and you're just adding more water and would hide the overextraction (but would at the same time hide the profile of the coffee). However, I'd also add that I've never encountered overextraction that wasn't due to grind and/or flow, so... yeah.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

That should have been 600, not 60. You measure your ratio in grams, for both coffee and water. It's always easiest to start with the coffee weight and then find the water weight. A 40g coffee 600g water brew would be 15:1 (15 grams of water per 1 gram of coffee).

The problem with X g for X cups is people's mugs vary so it's hard to definitively say what will make X cups.

Right, so to clarify, 1 "cup" in this instance is 5oz. (Bonavita's definition, not mine)

The Bonvaita has a max of 40oz

40oz = 1133g

1132/80 = ~14:1

 

[sharkmuncher]

Quoting for a new page.

Bonavita 1900TS - $179
Actually, looks like the previous version, the 1800TS, is $138 and is also an excellent coffee maker.

A little over your price, but contains all the info and more you'd want to at least start looking for a coffee maker. I'm assuming automatic, so things I'd look for are high infusion temps and a thermal carafe, not a hot plate.

Personally, if I wanted great coffee for $150, I'd get a Baratza Encore and a Chemex/Clever/French Press/Aeropress (pick one).

 

[partyphone]

Quoting for a new page.

my personal favorite: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000X7CMQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Barkley's Justice]

A little over your price, but contains all the info and more you'd want to at least start looking for a coffee maker. I'm assuming automatic, so things I'd look for are high infusion temps and a thermal carafe, not a hot plate.

I have that Bonavita. It's what I've been posting about the past few pages.

To my point about how much coffee/water to use: The guide linked above uses a whopping 120g of coffee for 40oz of water! That's a 9.4:1 ratio!

I saw that guide when I was shopping around and thought they were insane.

 

[partyphone]

edit: oops I'm dumb

that's almost twice as much coffee as you need

 

[thespot84]

Well, you can make the case that more water = more mass = more energy. However, energy is also a direct function of temperature, which is more important with regards to extraction of soluble compounds. Generally hotter water = more extraction regardless of the compound.

Ultimately, it's difficult to talk about the volume of water with extraction because it's not actually the amount of water that does the extraction, but rather the amount of time the coffee is exposed to heated water. And that too is affected by the amount of coffee regardless of the coffee to water ratio since more coffee, especially at improper grinds, will affect the flow rate and thus the total extraction time -- not to mention that you'd be extracting more compounds from purely more coffee present.

If grind wasn't an issue and flow rate was okay but coffee was still overextracted, then I would paradoxically experiment with lowering the amount of water simply to avoid extracting the lower solubility compounds at the end of the extraction process -- like pulling a ristretto shot using half the volume of water. The problem with this approach is that without sufficient back pressure (which more water provides), you may end up with over-extracted coffee due the now-extended dwell time.

Dilution with lots more water would help too, since given a certain point the coffee has would be extracted and you're just adding more water and would hide the overextraction (but would at the same time hide the profile of the coffee). However, I'd also add that I've never encountered overextraction that wasn't due to grind and/or flow, so... yeah.

we're on the same page, thanks

 

[sharkmuncher]

I have that Bonavita. It's what I've been posting about the past few pages.

To my point about how much coffee/water to use: The guide linked above uses a whopping 120g of coffee for 40oz of water! That's a 9.4:1 ratio!

I saw that guide when I was shopping around and thought they were insane.

I'd assume that was for completed coffee. It also says they used 120g / 1.7L which is 14.2:1

 

[jwk94]

Bonavita 1900TS - $179
Actually, looks like the previous version, the 1800TS, is $138 and is also an excellent coffee maker.

A little over your price, but contains all the info and more you'd want to at least start looking for a coffee maker. I'm assuming automatic, so things I'd look for are high infusion temps and a thermal carafe, not a hot plate.

Personally, if I wanted great coffee for $150, I'd get a Baratza Encore and a Chemex/Clever/French Press/Aeropress (pick one).

I have that Bonavita. It's what I've been posting about the past few pages.

To my point about how much coffee/water to use: The guide linked above uses a whopping 120g of coffee for 40oz of water! That's a 9.4:1 ratio!

I saw that guide when I was shopping around and thought they were insane.

That is a little over my price range but I dont' mind. Thanks! I was looking through that article you sent me and somebody mentioned a programmable version for $200. Does this look good if I want that kind of feature?

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/bonavita-8-cup-digital-brewer-with-stainless-steel-carafe/

 

[Barkley's Justice]

I'd assume that was for completed coffee. It also says they used 120g / 1.7L which is 14.2:1

That's my problem with that article; the facts are all over the place.

They write:

"Each coffee machine used a recipe containing 120 g of coffee and 1.7 L (48 fl. oz.) water (which is to the 8-cup mark on all the machines)." [emphasis added]

But the Bonavita 1900TS only goes up to 1.3 L (40 fl oz.)

So, in other words, that whole article seems bunk to me.

 

[jtb]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a cheap, entry-level (~$100) burr grinder capable of grinding for espresso? I understand that maybe that is something that does not exist, though I might pull the trigger on a used Rancilio Rocky for $80 (it's 4 years old). Good choice? What about the Baratza Virtuoso/Encore?

 

[sharkmuncher]

That's my problem with that article; the facts are all over the place.

They write:



But the Bonavita 1900TS only goes up to 1.3 L (40 fl oz.)

So, in other words, that whole article seems bunk to me.

Alright, but Cook's Illustrated likes it as well and their reviews tend to be pretty solid:

That is a little over my price range but I dont' mind. Thanks! I was looking through that article you sent me and somebody mentioned a programmable version for $200. Does this look good if I want that kind of feature?

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/bonavita-8-cup-digital-brewer-with-stainless-steel-carafe/

That's the same one recommended by Sweethome and highly recommended by Cook's Illustrated but with a digital control/timer. I'm sure it makes great coffee, but one caveat. Coffee loses a huge amount of aroma and flavor compounds within the first 15 minutes of being ground. It's probably not worth the money to buy a $200 coffee maker and grind the beans the night before or buy pre-ground. At that point, you might be better off buying the cheapest maker you can with a thermal carafe.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Alright, but Cook's Illustrated likes it as well and their reviews tend to be pretty solid:
.

Don't get me wrong: I love the Bonavita (I own it). But that article seemed sketchy in parts, at least with its science.

 

[grandwizard]

So I got a keurig machine.. I feel like I've betrayed my Aeropress..

So where do I get the good offbrand k-cups?

 

[andycapps]

So I got a keurig machine.. I feel like I've betrayed my Aeropress..

So where do I get the good offbrand k-cups?

CaryGrantgetout.gif

 

[waxer]

I do residential care work and have to stay the night away so just ordered an aeropress to try plus a small manual grinder. Looking forward to its arrival.

Also pretty stoked with how my new espresso machine is going. An em7000 sunbeam (not sure if there is a rebranded american version) uses dual thermoblocks but is best implemented version of tech I have tried plus machine only takes 90s to heat up. Paired with breville smart grinder pro.

Was using a mazza grinder and wega machine previously. This new setup is far more user friendly for my wife even if a lot would see as downgrade.

 

[Koriandrr]

My new first world problem: Drinking beers with colleagues on Friday afternoon when all I really want is coffee....

 

[The Hermit]

Hi, first timer here. Always loved coffee but I was too lazy to brew my on decently.
The biggest obstacle is the absurd price of most things barista-related here in Brazil.

Anyway, I want to buy a grinder and I am decing between a mechanical ( Hario) and automatic ( Cuisinart). The later Ive read that is either great or rubbish, so I am a bit confused.

My machine is far from great (cuisinart em1 00), but I managed a nice price for it, so I think it's alright for a short budgeted begginer

Last question: how fine should I grind the beans? I've read that too fine might clog the system in that especific maker.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Hi, first timer here. Always loved coffee but I was too lazy to brew my on decently.
The biggest obstacle is the absurd price of most things barista-related here in Brazil.

Anyway, I want to buy a grinder and I am decing between a mechanical ( Hario) and automatic ( Cuisinart). The later Ive read that is either great or rubbish, so I am a bit confused.

My machine is far from great (cuisinart em1 00), but I managed a nice price for it, so I think it's alright for a short budgeted begginer

Last question: how fine should I grind the beans? I've read that too fine might clog the system in that especific maker.

Hario, Porlex, Kyocera or any other manual grinder that is made in a similar manner will be hit or miss.

If you want cheap, and can get access to them, you can't beat a Baratza Encore

You grind based on what you're brewing in.

 

[overcast]

I'm awful with my french press. Any helpful videos or sites? The OP's link expired.

Granted I've tried like twice.

 

[GiJoccin]

I'm awful with my french press. Any helpful videos or sites? The OP's link expired.

Granted I've tried like twice.

Just Google French press guide, the intelligentsia PDF was like 3rd on my search and it looks solid

 

[sharkmuncher]

I'm awful with my french press. Any helpful videos or sites? The OP's link expired.

Granted I've tried like twice.

I've had good luck doing a much longer extraction for my French Press, like 7-8 minutes. The temp cools down enough in the first few minutes, that longer extractions seem to result in a richer flavor, but not necessarily over-extraction. This article at Serious Eats explains a bit more.

 

[InfiniteBento]

I'm awful with my french press. Any helpful videos or sites? The OP's link expired.

Granted I've tried like twice.

Intelligentsia has a solid guide on their website. I discovered a new brewing method that is like an updated version of the French press since working with Intelligentsia, its called an EvaSolo. You should look into it it doesn't have the push down paddle and you decant it like wine through a filter in the top. It's pretty great.

Also, I said I was going to make a new updated OP for this. I still am. I am in class until December but the moment its over I will be revamping coffee OT with some great guides, sources, and various information on coffee.

 

[The Hermit]

Hario, Porlex, Kyocera or any other manual grinder that is made in a similar manner will be hit or miss.

If you want cheap, and can get access to them, you can't beat a Baratza Encore

You grind based on what you're brewing in.

Yeah, I read a lot of the Baratza, but they are unavailible here.

 

[Ludovico]

Serious question:

Besides how classy they look, is there any significant difference between Chemex and any single-cup pour-over solution?
I have a cheap, plastic pour-over hopper with melita filters, and figured that other than quantity of output, they're pretty much the same?

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Serious question:

Besides how classy they look, is there any significant difference between Chemex and any single-cup pour-over solution?
I have a cheap, plastic pour-over hopper with melita filters, and figured that other than quantity of output, they're pretty much the same?

Filter is the difference between a Chemex and other pour overs. The filters are heavier and thicker so they produce a much cleaner cup of coffee.

 

[InfiniteBento]

Serious question:

Besides how classy they look, is there any significant difference between Chemex and any single-cup pour-over solution?
I have a cheap, plastic pour-over hopper with melita filters, and figured that other than quantity of output, they're pretty much the same?

Absolutely. A chemex will pull out the subtle notes in your coffee. A pour over, depending on your brand, will emphasize more of the prominent notes in your cup and be a bit more full in body than your chemex due to their filter differences. They are very different.

 

[Ludovico]

.

.

I see. Maybe I'll try one some day and see if it's worth adding to the collection. Thanks!

 

[Joe]

Is there a basic rule of thumb for coffee-to-water ratio using a pour over? Made a cup with 12 ounces of water and 2 tablespoons of ground coffee and it's not very tasty or strong.

It's also my first time using this particular coffee so that might be the case.

 

[Nappuccino]

I just picked up my first coffee grinder and whole-beans off Amazon. I'm pretty happy with it all, but I'm about to order another bag of beans and was wondering if you all had any suggestions for beans in in the 14$ per lb, free shipping price-range.

This is what I had picked up http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AE22CFK/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Is there a basic rule of thumb for coffee-to-water ratio using a pour over? Made a cup with 12 ounces of water and 2 tablespoons of ground coffee and it's not very tasty or strong.

It's also my first time using this particular coffee so that might be the case.

The "golden" ratio is 17.24:1. In other words 17.24 grams of water per gram of coffee. In most situations I use 15.5:1 unless I'm doing a large batch Chemex then I do 16:1.

 

[Joe]

The "golden" ratio is 17.24:1. In other words 17.24 grams of water per gram of coffee. In most situations I use 15.5:1 unless I'm doing a large batch Chemex then I do 16:1.

Perfect, thank you very much.

 

[Joe]

Can anyone recommend a pour over kettle that won't rust?

 

[borghe]

Can anyone recommend a pour over kettle that won't rust?

just bought the Hario Buono. Thing is godly. It's stainless steel, so "won't rust" largely comes down to "don't be careless and you'll be fine". Don't leave water sitting in it, don't let it heat with little or no water in it, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IGOXLS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

My pour over setup will be complete tomorrow when my scale arrives.

Hario V60 knockoff (Bee House)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047VUNVE/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hario Scale (finding a good scale that truly goes to 1g accuracy is tough under $30.. so I spent 49 more for a great scale and built in timer)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GPJMOU/?tag=neogaf0e-20

the above kettle (never drips, even on the slowest pours)

Baratza Encore conical ceramic burr grinder
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LW8122Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Joe]

just bought the Hario Buono. Thing is godly. It's stainless steel, so "won't rust" largely comes down to "don't be careless and you'll be fine". Don't leave water sitting in it, don't let it heat with little or no water in it, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IGOXLS/?tag=neogaf0e-20

My pour over setup will be complete tomorrow when my scale arrives.

Hario V60 knockoff (Bee House)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047VUNVE/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hario Scale (finding a good scale that truly goes to 1g accuracy is tough under $30.. so I spent 49 more for a great scale and built in timer)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GPJMOU/?tag=neogaf0e-20

the above kettle (never drips, even on the slowest pours)

Baratza Encore conical ceramic burr grinder
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LW8122Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Nice, thank you!

 

[InfiniteBento]

Just found out StumpTown was bought out by Peet's coffee. I'm so upset

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Just found out StumpTown was bought out by Peet's coffee. I'm so upset

I'm not, it was inevitable. From what I read Intelligentsia is also seeking buyers. Once you hit that stage of growth it makes sense to sell. Right now coffee is at it's high and people are drinking up cold-brew left and right. I don't blame the controlling stake of Stumptown for doing this.

Blue Bottle likely wont do the same, but they also have way more money to sit on and grow with than Stumptown got.

 

[Eyeron]

Grinder recommendations? I'm looking for something relatively compact and easy to clean & maintain for less than $100, ideally. I'll primarily be using a coarse grounds in a french press, if that matters. Kind of hard to settle on one. Reviews can be all over the place.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Grinder recommendations? I'm looking for something relatively compact and easy to clean & maintain for less than $100, ideally. I'll primarily be using a coarse grounds in a french press, if that matters. Kind of hard to settle on one. Reviews can be all over the place.

If you go up to a $100 you can probably get a Baratza Encore from their refurbished store. If by compact you mean something more hand held then there is the Hario Kerton or Porlex Mill.

 

[Eyeron]

If you go up to a $100 you can probably get a Baratza Encore from their refurbished store. If by compact you mean something more hand held then there is the Hario Kerton or Porlex Mill.

I'll check those out. Thanks!

 

[Joe]

Really enjoying my basic pour over setup but my coffee stinks.

Can anyone recommend some good, yet not expensive and readily available online, coffee ground I can buy? Essentially the best of the cheap stuff.

I'm going to eventually try roasting and grinding my own beans but right now I need some more immediate fixes.

 

[A Human Becoming]

When my parent's Keruig finally dies I want to move them over to a non-pod single cup coffee brewer. Recommendations?

 

[InfiniteBento]

When my parent's Keruig finally dies I want to move them over to a non-pod single cup coffee brewer. Recommendations?

Do you want to hand brew your coffee or go for automatic? I'll naturally recommend hand brewing because of its quality but if its not your preference I can recommend alternatives.

 

[insignia16]

Hi Coffee gaf, I have a question about 2 particular burr grinders. Is the Capresso Infinity 560 burr grinder a better choice for grinding espresso and drip coffee than the Delonghi KG89 grinder? I ask because those are the two burr grinders that have decent reviews and are sold on best buy's website. Plus, I have $40 in best buy reward certificates I can use to subsidize my purchase.
I'm also open to suggestions for other burr grinders under $100, I'm positive that any burr grinder is better than my mother and I's current method of using a Nutri Bullet to grind coffee lol.

 

[Jake.]

i'm giving up with aeropress, been 9 months and i still can't seem to nail it properly after tons of tweaking. not sure whether to try a chemex or french press next.

edit: hario buono definitely can rust, stainless steel or not. interestingly they also have both made in japan and made in china versions now.

 

[Roi]

i'm giving up with aeropress, been 9 months and i still can't seem to nail it properly after tons of tweaking. not sure whether to try a chemex or french press next.

edit: hario buono definitely can rust, stainless steel or not. interestingly they also have both made in japan and made in china versions now.

What is the problem? I'm using the aeropress almost daily and loving it since I bought it!


What is your setting, what coffee are you using?