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[Loomy]

Colin is a smart guy, but this is stupid. I can guarantee you both Sony and Arrowhead have had at least 1 post mortem about this already, and there's work going on right now to capture what's working and what isn't in the effort to keep players continually engaged and they'll have at least 1 more sit down about this.

Every studio/publisher out there looks at their release and tries to figure out what worked/what didn't/what they could have done better. That's how they, hopefully, improve their product.

Colin is letting his hatred of everything GaaS influence his thinking here.

 

[AmuroChan]

There’s a lot to learn from HD2

1. Make a very fun and appealing game

If Sony needed to HD2 to learn that, they have bigger problems.

 

[bender]

If Sony needed to HD2 to learn that, they have bigger problems.

There is a Quantic Dream joke here somewhere.

 

[Halo2redvsblue]

They learned that a new game day and date on PS and PC so far is better then launching on PS first and waiting a year or two or even longer to launch on PC. They will try that again to see if they get the same results. If they can get almost the same results, games will launch day and date. It's simple.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They learned that a new game day and date on PS and PC so far is better then launching on PS first and waiting a year or two or even longer to launch on PC. They will try that again to see if they get the same results. If they can get almost the same results, games will launch day and date. It's simple.

Yep. For GaaS games we already know this is what they will do

Not for SP games

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Colin is a smart and nuanced guy. I never really disagree with his takes to a large extent.

He's not saying anything controversial here.

And quite the opposite of OP, I thought Colin’s take was quite thought-provoking. Rather than idiotic.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

They learned that a new game day and date on PS and PC so far is better then launching on PS first and waiting a year or two or even longer to launch on PC. They will try that again to see if they get the same results. If they can get almost the same results, games will launch day and date. It's simple.

Well yeah for a live multiplayer game, of course that’s the case. Most of Sony’s games are single-player games though. So the idea of PC and PS players connecting together to play online isn’t a thing most of the time and doesn’t really apply to most of their products.

 

[cripterion]

And there is nothing to learn from Colin Moriarty. Moving on.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Colin is a smart guy, but this is stupid. I can guarantee you both Sony and Arrowhead have had at least 1 post mortem about this already, and there's work going on right now to capture what's working and what isn't in the effort to keep players continually engaged and they'll have at least 1 more sit down about this.

Every studio/publisher out there looks at their release and tries to figure out what worked/what didn't/what they could have done better. That's how they, hopefully, improve their product.

Colin is letting his hatred of everything GaaS influence his thinking here.

Bingo.

Treating an 8 year effort that reached more success than anyone predicted should produce the common sense response of..."We should put MORE resources towards learning what happened here."

Colin has to frame it as a Deus Ex Machina event because he subconsciously knows this type of success shifts the steering wheel for PlayStation.

 

[Fbh]

I don't know.
I listened to the segment and it sounds like he is just saying there's nothing specific to copy that wouldn't come across as a blatant ripoff. I think he sumarized it well in "it's like trying to copy Rocket League".

 

[Halo2redvsblue]

Yep. For GaaS games we already know this is what they will do

Not for SP games

They will try a SP game as well to see how it does day and date. Sooner or later, Sony will do SP on PC day and date.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I would say is that Helldivers proves that making a fun game with sufficient polish can open avenues of success.

Imagine being a third party consultanty firm paid by PlayStation to study Helldivers 2 success. They give you a month to come up with 5 pillars as to why Helldivers 2 surpassed everyone's expectations.

If you started your presentation by saying "Make a fun game" you'd be sued into the ground by Sony corp.

If you started your presentation by saying "You can't learn anything from Helldivers 2 success" you'd be sued into the ground by Sony corp.

"Make a fun game" is a completely worthless statement that misses the reason why Helldivers 2 blew up in the way it did. Dead Space is a "fun game". We saw how that went.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Okay, so what exactly are the lessons to take away from HD2, that don't sound like the same boiler plate crap every developer says while they're working on a game?

Yeah, I honestly have absolutely no idea what lessons you are supposed to take away. EDF is the same game except better in every single aspect other than graphics and nobody even knows that it exists. Every single "lesson" you would learn from Helldivers 2 should have applied to EDF, so obviously those aren't actual lessons to learn.

The only lesson from Helldivers 2 that I can think of is that we are in a new phase of gaming where events like Helldivers 2 will start happening more often and nobody will be able to truly explain any of them.

 

[AJUMP23]

There are always things to learn.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They will try a SP game as well to see how it does day and date. Sooner or later, Sony will do SP on PC day and date.

They won’t because it puts too much stress on the teams and they want to sell more on consoles than pc

Only way day and date happens is with their own store launcher, anything else is wishful thinking

 

[Osaka_Boss]

Why giving these bozos so much Power? Dont you guys have any opinion yourselves?

 

[Halo2redvsblue]

They won’t because it puts too much stress on the teams and they want to sell more on consoles than pc

Only way day and date happens is with their own store launcher, anything else is wishful thinking

That's why they are buying devs that they can port it over to PC, less stress to the original Teams for now until they learn how to port over anyway. This is past selling exclusively just on consoles now, they know they can't stay just on consoles. Sony's not going to do their own store launcher with steam and epic, with in-game launcher it's just matter of time. Just get ready for when it happens because it will happen.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That's why they are buying devs that they can port it over to PC

They did years ago and it hasn’t resulted in day and date, you can’t just port a game at the same time. The game has to be completed then ported

So many is also doing PC.

Yeah and they will wait. Sony wants to sell most on consoles

 

[Halo2redvsblue]

They did years ago and it hasn’t resulted in day and date, you can’t just port a game at the same time. The game has to be completed then ported




Yeah and they will wait. Sony wants to sell most on consoles

It doesn't matter what you think it's going to happen, it's not going to happen this year or next year but it definitely will happen around when the PlayStation 6 launches.

 

[rkofan87]

i love collin but dude wtf????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[LordOcidax]

Bingo.

Treating an 8 year effort that reached more success than anyone predicted should produce the common sense response of..."We should put MORE resources towards learning what happened here."

Colin has to frame it as a Deus Ex Machina event because he subconsciously knows this type of success shifts the steering wheel for PlayStation.

The success of Helldivers 2 is a double edged sword for the Playstation hardcore fans.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It doesn't matter what you think it's going to happen, it's not going to happen this year or next year but it definitely will happen around when the PlayStation 6 launches.

It doesn’t matter what you think, Sony isn’t going to release day and date on pc when it loses them significant money doing so

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Imagine being a third party consultanty firm paid by PlayStation to study Helldivers 2 success. They give you a month to come up with 5 pillars as to why Helldivers 2 surpassed everyone's expectations.

If you started your presentation by saying "Make a fun game" you'd be sued into the ground by Sony corp.

If you started your presentation by saying "You can't learn anything from Helldivers 2 success" you'd be sued into the ground by Sony corp.

"Make a fun game" is a completely worthless statement that misses the reason why Helldivers 2 blew up in the way it did. Dead Space is a "fun game". We saw how that went.

To take away that a game should be fun is kind of a misnomer and a given.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Identify what makes a fun game. Ragdoll physics, the explosions, the enemies, great sound, co-op, . There is sort of a templates but ya know, it's how it's implemented, if it's good enough.

 

[Neolombax]

To be fair, he does continue saying "...other than make a great game". And then Chris goes on to elaborate what makes Helldivers 2 work.

I just think its very clever of Arrowhead to pivot everyone into this democracy narrative of attacking just 2 enemy factions, on certain planets, and then slowly drip feed the content and everyone praises them for it. I'll give credit where its due, the game is a lot of fun, doesn't take much time commitment and it's priced just right.

 

[hemo memo]

Watch the clip. He’s right.

 

[farmerboy]

I remember when he said that the Switch had -zero chance of success .

Yeah, but that's so wrong it doesn't count.

 

[Dazraell]

Eh, I watched this clip and I feel he's not looking at things that actually helped Helldivers 2. There is a lot of things that can be learned here. Simultaneous release on PC and PS5 for 40 dollars was a slam dunk choice on Sony's end. The game also blends simple ideas and execute them well, creating a very enjoyable gameplay loop. To me this is a very good case study

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I think the reason it caught on was a combination of perfect timing & they didn’t set out to make the most successful live service PlayStation game in history. People were hungry for something fresh & new.

I think trying to dissect it and see what made it so successful is almost thinking about it too much. Because it wasn’t made with the intention of that happening. They had zero idea how well the game would perform commercially.

There is something to be learnt from it for sure.

I haven’t played it but it looks to be very easy to drop in and use insane abilities, drop huge explosives etc.

In other words it doesn’t demand you 100 hrs before you are able to do cool stuff.

Its a Playstation game. They tell you specific solutions to puzzles they put in their games sometimes . I think that worked out well for them.

 

[GeNoMe]

Where does Colin say this exactly? Oh wait, he doesn't.
Since day and age companies have tried to replicate the 'lightning in a bottle' phenomena. And the more they try do to so? The more likely they will fail. Add tot that the intrinsic need to monetise, and there is your recipe for failure. Sometimes things happen because they just happen. There was no amount of data that Sony had or will have to replicate the Helldivers zeitgeist. Sony didn't even believe in the project, the price point and lack of promotion will tell you that.

 

[GymWolf]

Is he one of the supposedly smart guys in the industry? Hard to tell.

 

[nial]

The success of Helldivers 2 is a double edged sword for the Playstation hardcore fans.

Care to explain?

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah, I honestly have absolutely no idea what lessons you are supposed to take away. EDF is the same game except better in every single aspect other than graphics and nobody even knows that it exists. Every single "lesson" you would learn from Helldivers 2 should have applied to EDF, so obviously those aren't actual lessons to learn.

The only lesson from Helldivers 2 that I can think of is that we are in a new phase of gaming where events like Helldivers 2 will start happening more often and nobody will be able to truly explain any of them.

I can give you a reason, it’s because it embraces what the kids call today “toxic masculinity”.

It creates a sense of camaraderie in war, which makes it fun.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Eh, I watched this clip and I feel he's not looking at things that actually helped Helldivers 2. There is a lot of things that can be learned here.

This too.

He lists off a number of reasons for its success "...it's just Starship Troopers, space fascism, not very serious but deep..."

As if an RTS or a linear action game based on those themes would move the needle.

Helldivers 2 landed in two very important buckets. It's a 4p coop game which is one of the 5 types of GAAS titles that traditionally does well. And it's open world, which we see time and time again be embraced by a larger pool of players. The theme is near meaningless.

 

[simpatico]

He’s right in a sense. There is no secret sauce, it’s just a quality game providing simple fun. If anything the secret is to not over think it

 

[Physiognomonics]

There’s a lot to learn from HD2

1. Make a very fun and appealing game
2. Don’t monetize it to hell and back
3. Don’t charge $70 for an MP only experience

Yes I think that is a replicable strategy for success. Getting #1 right is hard

Sony could easily have success with this strategy if they brought back Killzone MP

This is basically not what Sony have being doing actually in most their games whether SP or MP. The reality is that Sony got lucky with Helldivers 2.

And you are damn right about Killzone MP. KZ Shadow Fall MP was the most fun I had with a MP game (granted I don't play those games a lot) except Fortnite. I'd buy a MP focused Killzone rightly priced at $40 if it's as fun as KZ Shadow Fall. The single player game was a mostly average tech demo, but the MP modes were very fun to play!

 

[Tsaki]

He’s not wrong. He’s just explaining that trying to mimic it will end up with a desingenious product. Zeitgeist moments can’t be recaptured and repackaged. It’s not an exact science.

I agree with this assessment. But also there are some things for Sony to learn from it for their next GaaS.
The $40 price range seems to be one: full price for multiplayer only is a tough sell to consumers and F2P with high game budgets is as well. Getting into a middle ground where you can at least recoup your dev costs without praying that the game becomes an instant success and everyone will be rushing to buy your MTXs is important.
Something to also learn from is to do network tests before release, which was a big problem for Helldivers 2 and the reason for the vast majority of negative reviews (from users and critics). Perhaps get into the premium edition Early Access bandwagon and make some extra cash from it as well. Get free testers for the game AND get make money by doing so? Seems like a steal

 

[Punished Miku]

At the very least, Sony clearly thinks there is stuff to learn from any GAAS game. They paid a few billion for Bungie for their insight into that.

 

[Fabieter]

They learned that a new game day and date on PS and PC so far is better then launching on PS first and waiting a year or two or even longer to launch on PC. They will try that again to see if they get the same results. If they can get almost the same results, games will launch day and date. It's simple.

Maybe that always online games will bring you more sales.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

The only thing Sony can learn is to make sure their gaas games are sitting on a bunch of content before release. HD2 was delayed an additional 3 months to give Arrowhead the proper post-launch roadmap

I wouldn't be surprised if HD2's success means that Sony is OK with delaying Concord. I thought that game would release by June, but I'm guessing Fall now. Especially with Sony not having much for exclusives the rest of the year. It's a win win for them. Concord will have great post-launch content and Sony will be able to fill the void with a Fall release date

 

[Punished Miku]

The only thing Sony can learn is to make sure their gaas games are sitting on a bunch of content before release. HD2 was delayed an additional 3 months to give Arrowhead the proper post-launch roadmap

I wouldn't be surprised if HD2's success means that Sony is OK with delaying Concord. I thought that game would release by June, but I'm guessing Fall now. Especially with Sony not having much for exclusives the rest of the year. It's a win win for them. Concord will have great post-launch content and Sony will be able to fill the void with a Fall release date

I think they can learn a lot from the price point too. People are more willing to entertain this kind of model if it's either f2p or cheaper. There aren't a long list of GAAS games at $70 that succeeded.

 

[SHA]

From a pc perspective it does, pc is the dominant platform, if the community unintentionally don't realize this then the result is people like Colin Moriarty, it has it's own demographic, you can't alienate them or label them as e-sport players or streamers .
Nintendo games scenario actually fits more perfectly with the op.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Colin is a smart guy, but this is stupid. I can guarantee you both Sony and Arrowhead have had at least 1 post mortem about this already, and there's work going on right now to capture what's working and what isn't in the effort to keep players continually engaged and they'll have at least 1 more sit down about this.

Every studio/publisher out there looks at their release and tries to figure out what worked/what didn't/what they could have done better. That's how they, hopefully, improve their product.

Colin is letting his hatred of everything GaaS influence his thinking here.

Thats not what he says at all. Hes saying other companies cant repeat what Arrowhead has here. Arrowhead can keep it going, but others cant capture the same Zeitgeist.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

They learned that a new game day and date on PS and PC so far is better then launching on PS first and waiting a year or two or even longer to launch on PC. They will try that again to see if they get the same results. If they can get almost the same results, games will launch day and date. It's simple.

They already knew that, that's why they talked about their current strategy back in 2019.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

I think they can learn a lot from the price point too. People are more willing to entertain this kind of model if it's either f2p or cheaper. There aren't a long list of GAAS games at $70 that succeeded.

Yeah, if anything Sony being kinda greedy. No GAAS are 70$, unless they have a campaign along with it. Most PvP gaas games are free. Charging 40 for Concord may be steep

 

[3liteDragon]

He’s not wrong. He’s just explaining that trying to mimic it will end up with a desingenious product. Zeitgeist moments can’t be recaptured and repackaged. It’s not an exact science.

 

[alstrike]

Oh get fucked Colin, you loud mouth twat…

 

[mayham2199]

CoD is CoD, got the first mover advantage and lives off its legacy.

I don’t think new IP has that luxury

Genshin Impact did the same. It's montezied to hell. Outfits and even playable characters can cost a lot of money and your still not guaranteed to get it.

 

[mckmas8808]

He’s not wrong. He’s just explaining that trying to mimic it will end up with a desingenious product. Zeitgeist moments can’t be recaptured and repackaged. It’s not an exact science.

You and Colin say this as if Helldivers2 is luck. It's NOT! It's not just a "zeitgeist game". They cared about making a fun game over a slot machine packaged as "a game".

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Genshin Impact did the same. It's montezied to hell. Outfits and even playable characters can cost a lot of money and your still not guaranteed to get it.

This is wrong (like VERY wrong) but this thread is not about Genshin or Mihoyo, one of the biggest success stories in the industry.

This Colin dude is a fucking ignorant. Claiming that there is nothing to learn from the biggest success of the year (a success that only a few saw coming) is peak stupidity. You can't get dumber than that.

Sure there are many factors as to why Helldivers is massive:

- FUN gameplay loop.

- Constant community support / Great management

- Only gaming, No political bullshit.

- Sci-fi shooter based/ripped off an IP that has not been exploited in videogames.

- Retro spirit: only fun, over-the-top action and humor.

- NO PVP BULLSHIT, make players feel united. Strive for a common goal.

- NO P2W, no powercreep.

- Top-notch production values.

What can other devs learn from this? Well, its pretty obvious for anyone with half brain:

- Interesting world with constant updates.

- Make players feel part of something bigger. Union is much more powerful than confrontation.

- Videogames is all that matter. Don't preach, be humble.