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Company of Heroes 2 |OT| The Motherland is Calling - [Western Front Armies out now]

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Speculator

BioWare Austin
Hope someone does a new OT for Western Front Armies to celebrate its release day. It certainly feels like a whole new iteration of COH2 after my experience in the Alpha. The community deserves to grow.
 
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manhack

Member
Speculator said:
Hope someone does a new OT for Western Front Armies to celebrate its release day. It certainly feels like a whole new iteration of COH2 after my experience in the Alpha. The community deserves to grow.
Click to expand...

I am pretty excited to try out the new armies. Vanilla COH was one of my favorite games of all time and although I put about 80 hours in COH 2, I just kind of fizzled out on it. Hoping the american army and new wehrmacht will breathe some life into it.

It's funny, when COH 1 had an expansion I hated the british and panzer elite armies at first, because they were so different, but eventually it was great having so many options.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
manhack said:
I am pretty excited to try out the new armies. Vanilla COH was one of my favorite games of all time and although I put about 80 hours in COH 2, I just kind of fizzled out on it. Hoping the american army and new wehrmacht will breathe some life into it.

It's funny, when COH 1 had an expansion I hated the british and panzer elite armies at first, because they were so different, but eventually it was great having so many options.
Click to expand...

PE 4 lyfe :)

Can't wait for this, should be a much-needed shot in the arm.
 
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Old Gimlet Eyes

Member
I thought the expansion wasn't coming until tomorrow? Either way, stoked to play it today. US and Oberkomando West are both fun to play as, really had a lot of fun with both in the Alpha trial. US was different style of play for sure and I am hoping to see a lot more commander choices on the full release. Airborne is fun as always, but playing US is COH2 is def different than the US side in COH1. Didn't play as much Oberkomando as I wanted, but they are really fun as well. This expansion will hopefully breath some new life into COH2 which is still an amazing game to play online.
 
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Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Feels really good, loving Oberkomando West. Very fun.
 
Icefire1424

Icefire1424

Member
Any more thoughts on the expansion thus far? Are commander skills unique this time around (as in CoH), or combinations of the same skills akin to CoH2?
 
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Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Damn, playing as the US is...weird! So weird!
 
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Old Gimlet Eyes

Member
Icefire1424 said:
Any more thoughts on the expansion thus far? Are commander skills unique this time around (as in CoH), or combinations of the same skills akin to CoH2?
Click to expand...

Have only played US forces, but there are only 3 commanders that I am aware of, not sure if you can unlock more. Airborne, infantry and armor doctrines, with different commander abilities than COH1. Not sure what I like best so far. Airborne is fun, but being able to call in a Wolverine tank as armor doctrine is really useful. US definitely plays differently than the other factions, much more mobile and offensive style. I love the mobile ambulance unit and how your vehicles can be de-crewed.

I do like the expansion a lot so far though. The new maps are great (I only play 3vs3 and 4vs4) but they offer a nice variety.


Vince McMahon said:
Damn, playing as the US is...weird! So weird!
Click to expand...
It is very different. Load up on rifleman up front, get them some zooks and BARs and then get that Sherman as fast as possible. Not sure how much I like some of the supporting units, armored care and AT gun for example. AT gun seems kinda weak compared to zooks. AT is something that US really relies on infantry for until you get a Sherman on the field. They really do compliment the Soviet forces though, and dat mobile ambulance. Love being able to heal and reinforce at the front line and eventually set up a forward base with Major+retreat point+ambulance.
 
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shrapnelmagnet

Member
Too bad this thread is in Community-hell... :)

Anyway, if you have any questions about the Western Front Armies, I can try to help! The new update also includes a Public Games List, Victory Strikes (they're like fatalities), and a new way to give out Commanders / Intel Bulletins, etc. (War Spoils).

(disclosure: worked on the armies)
 
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Old Gimlet Eyes

Member
shrapnelmagnet said:
Too bad this thread is in Community-hell... :)

Anyway, if you have any questions about the Western Front Armies, I can try to help! The new update also includes a Public Games List, Victory Strikes (they're like fatalities), and a new way to give out Commanders / Intel Bulletins, etc. (War Spoils).

(disclosure: worked on the armies)
Click to expand...

How many commanders are there for US and Oberkommando? What faction do you like between the 2 new choices? Any tips or tricks with the new armies that some of us might not know about?
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
Old Gimlet Eyes said:
How many commanders are there for US and Oberkommando? What faction do you like between the 2 new choices? Any tips or tricks with the new armies that some of us might not know about?
Click to expand...

At the moment, there are 6 commanders for each of the new factions (3 by default, 3 are found via War Spoils).

I really like the OKW because their 'pioneer' unit can be a monster in the right circumstances (medium-close combat) and isn't a throw-away infantry squad. That said, the Volksgrens are more consistent and have grenades. The Sturmpioneers are easily negated / slowed down by buildings. I also like powerful units, so the Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger, and Obersoldaten are my faves :)

Of course, I'm probably better at playing the US Forces because the Riflemen are so versatile and scale well into the late game. I'm not great at micro'ing many vehicles though, so late game I flounder a bit.

Short answer: OKW for sex appeal, USF because I like to appear competent when playing.

As for tips / tactics / non-obvious things:
  • The Sturmpioneers / Assault Engineers do not take a movement penalty when moving in deep snow, mud, or water
  • The Obersoldaten are just as accurate against retreating units as non-retreating units - they can cut off squads retreating and punish them
  • The M20 Utility Car decrews with a Bazooka-armed Vehicle Crew - can be a nasty surprise
  • Decrew in general can be used against AT Guns because the AT Gun will not automatically target the neutral vehicle. The vehicle crew has enough DPS to kill a lone AT Gun (up close). Side note: If this happens to you, you can target a neutral vehicle by Attack Moving it (pressing the hotkey [A] and then left-clicking the vehicle). This also works against any neutral building.
  • The Reinforced Steel Barrier that the Sturmpioneers build cannot be cut with Wire Cutters
  • Sturmpioneers can salvage abandoned weapon teams, vehicles, and vehicle wrecks - a great source of fuel since the OKW gain less fuel from capture points
  • The M7 Light Anti-Tank Mine on the US Forces (Assault Engineers build them. Riflemen, too, with a Commander passive) is best in large groups. It deals very little damage, but if a vehicle hits multiple mines in quick succession, there is a high chance of immobilization.
  • Might be obvious, but decrewing is great for capturing points (just don't forget about your vehicle!)
  • We simplified the "weapon inventory" on each squad, so now any squad that can pick up weapons can pick up two of any dropped weapon. You can queue up multiple purchases at a Weapon Rack with SHIFT+Right-click.
  • Once you've unlocked a Weapon Rack, you can actually use an USF Ally's Weapon Rack from their base (sort of unintentional, but it doesn't hurt anything :) )

Hmm, that's all that come to mind at the moment. If I think of something else, I'll post it!

EDIT: Oh, yeah! My FAVE strategy if you play with a mixed skill group:

Support Player Strat
  • Ask the better player(s) what tanks they would like to have (Sherman, M36, etc.) and then build them. Drive to their base and decrew, they can recrew them (and even go over pop cap by doing this).
  • You can use the vehicle crews to repair them or go cap etc.
  • Works better in arranged teams.
  • BE CAREFUL when doing this with an AI ally on your team - they will not attempt to capture a neutral vehicle if a Player-controlled squad is nearby... but if you move away, they fucking LOVE to take neutral vehicles :)
 
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ThoseDeafMutes

Member
Had my first USA and OKW game after the Alpha finished.

Still hate the gimmicky design of OKW, and can't stand the design of having elite troops in T0, no medium tanks, but then late game ultra-heavies.

Hurl.

Also riflemen are made of paper mache.
 
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IpKaiFung

Member
While riflemen have slightly less health than conscripts the same as volksgrenadiers and more than grenadiers they have the highest firepower output out of all the basic starter infantry at all ranges.

I think some replays would help to illustrate your problems.
 
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ThoseDeafMutes

Member
I'm not having any major problems currently, I'm about 5-1 in this expansion thus far. That's the benefit of being in the alpha I guess. I just don't like that factional design. I have to pay a LOT more attention to squads early on because the time-to-wipe when facing down sturmpios is like, 0.5 nanoseconds.
 
Icefire1424

Icefire1424

Member
shrapnelmagnet said:
Too bad this thread is in Community-hell... :)

Anyway, if you have any questions about the Western Front Armies, I can try to help! The new update also includes a Public Games List, Victory Strikes (they're like fatalities), and a new way to give out Commanders / Intel Bulletins, etc. (War Spoils).

(disclosure: worked on the armies)
Click to expand...

What are these "Victory Strikes" you speak of? War Spoils are basically unlocks by level / accomplishment I assume?

Either way, I'm going to pick this us at some point, but probably won't be able to play online for a long time with new kiddo around. Will live for the Skirmish though.
 
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shrapnelmagnet

Member
IpKaiFung said:
While riflemen have slightly less health than conscripts the same as volksgrenadiers and more than grenadiers they have the highest firepower output out of all the basic starter infantry at all ranges.

I think some replays would help to illustrate your problems.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of single infantry entities have the exact same health values and the same additional 'modifiers'. Conscripts and Riflemen are, in terms of durability, the exact same. Same for Volks, Sturmpios, Grens, etc. Weapon Team infantry have adjusted durability because they gain often gain cover bonuses from the weapons they are manning.

Soviet Shock Troops have 50% more Armor, but that affects accuracy vs. them (still, increases durability against small arms).

Of course, Soviet infantry squads usually have more entities making the squad more durable, but I just wanted to point out that the entities / soldiers themselves have the same health.

Icefire1424 said:
What are these "Victory Strikes" you speak of? War Spoils are basically unlocks by level / accomplishment I assume?
Click to expand...

Victory Strikes are abilities that trigger at the end of the game. If you win, your Victory Strike targets an enemy HQ and does something to it (usually drops bombs on it). War Spoils are random drops - you can now get Commanders, Intel Bulletins, Skins, and Victory Strikes by playing the game and having them drop for you at the end of a match.

ThoseDeafMutes said:
I'm not having any major problems currently, I'm about 5-1 in this expansion thus far. That's the benefit of being in the alpha I guess. I just don't like that factional design. I have to pay a LOT more attention to squads early on because the time-to-wipe when facing down sturmpios is like, 0.5 nanoseconds.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear you're not really diggin' the new factions :( I really like the Sturmpios because while they are quite powerful, if a Player is building lots of them, they will be manpower starved and have no answer to light vehicles beyond the Raketenwerfer (which is also expensive). Among our balance designers, it's considered unwise or, at least, very risky to focus on Sturmpios. The live environment will tell us more, though, obvs.

I'm not sure when you last played, but we semi-recently increased lethality across ALL units in COH2 - so maybe that's what you're feeling? It definitely makes infantry combat more decisive and can be frustrating when you miss a squad. And yes, the Sturmpios, when in their 'ideal' range are brutal. (EDIT: Re-read your other comments about playing in the Alpha - Nothing lethality-related has changed, so I suppose you had the same feelings then, as well)
 
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IpKaiFung

Member
shrapnelmagnet said:
The vast majority of single infantry entities have the exact same health values and the same additional 'modifiers'. Conscripts and Riflemen are, in terms of durability, the exact same. Same for Volks, Sturmpios, Grens, etc. Weapon Team infantry have adjusted durability because they gain often gain cover bonuses from the weapons they are manning.

Soviet Shock Troops have 50% more Armor, but that affects accuracy vs. them (still, increases durability against small arms).

Of course, Soviet infantry squads usually have more entities making the squad more durable, but I just wanted to point out that the entities / soldiers themselves have the same health.
)
Click to expand...

Yeah I should have elaborated more, the squad sizes give the increased durability because all infantry entities have 80hp except for snipers which are at 48.

All the small arms weapons deal damage in divisions of 80 to reduce overkill, also tell Peter to try switching his stuff on and off again, he's not been on in a while.
 
Icefire1424

Icefire1424

Member
shrapnelmagnet said:
War Spoils are random drops - you can now get Commanders, Intel Bulletins, Skins, and Victory Strikes by playing the game and having them drop for you at the end of a match.
Click to expand...

Online matches only, or Skirmish as well? My availability to play online nowadays is essentially nil :(

Either way, I've absolutely been talked into picking this up, thanks for the input!
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
IpKaiFung said:
All the small arms weapons deal damage in divisions of 80 to reduce overkill, also tell Peter to try switching his stuff on and off again, he's not been on in a while.
Click to expand...

Peter is back and ready to rock, don't worry :)

Icefire1424 said:
Online matches only, or Skirmish as well? My availability to play online nowadays is essentially nil :(
Click to expand...

All non-Campaign games played are worth the same amount as far as drops are concerned. You can play MP or SP Comp-Stomp / Automatch / Arranged Public / Theater of War games and still get drops. With ToW games, you will not see it drop post-game, but your profile should show you if you gained anything.

firehawk12 said:
I haven't been keeping up, but they're doing a Europe expansion again?

Why no love for the Pacific Theater?
Click to expand...

As for the Pacific... Let's just say that we're into about all aspects of WW2. It's just a matter of focus at this time.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
shrapnelmagnet said:
Victory Strikes are abilities that trigger at the end of the game. If you win, your Victory Strike targets an enemy HQ and does something to it (usually drops bombs on it). War Spoils are random drops - you can now get Commanders, Intel Bulletins, Skins, and Victory Strikes by playing the game and having them drop for you at the end of a match.
Click to expand...
A touch of Dota in my CoH? Neat.

firehawk12 said:
I haven't been keeping up, but they're doing a Europe expansion again?

Why no love for the Pacific Theater?
Click to expand...
I would love it, but I imagine there's a bit of a representation issue. Imperial Japan was strongest on the sea, with weak armor and reliance on air power on land. A bit difficult to model that satisfyingly in CoH-as-it-is.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
shrapnelmagnet said:
As for the Pacific... Let's just say that we're into about all aspects of WW2. It's just a matter of focus at this time.
Click to expand...
Not that I have anything against Europe, but the Pacific is just so under utilized in games.

Bo said:
A touch of Dota in my CoH? Neat.

I would love it, but I imagine there's a bit of a representation issue. Imperial Japan was strongest on the sea, with weak armor and reliance on air power on land. A bit difficult to model that satisfyingly in CoH-as-it-is.
Click to expand...
Maybe this is just fantasy, but I was hoping that they'd find a way to do naval engagements with giant fleets/carrier groups smashing into each other. Maybe do something really tight and focused like in the Tales of Valor campaigns and follow a single ship or something.

More realistically, even just doing Guadalcanal with the Japanese being like the Russians would probably be enough.
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
Nah, I tried to mess around a bit, but it's a pretty straightforward map - there are some shallows and stuff, though.

That said, some 120mm Mortars would punish pretty badly.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
shrapnelmagnet said:
I'm not sure when you last played, but we semi-recently increased lethality across ALL units in COH2 - so maybe that's what you're feeling? It definitely makes infantry combat more decisive and can be frustrating when you miss a squad. And yes, the Sturmpios, when in their 'ideal' range are brutal. (EDIT: Re-read your other comments about playing in the Alpha - Nothing lethality-related has changed, so I suppose you had the same feelings then, as well)
Click to expand...

I don't play Russians (ever since the original alpha + the 1.0 single player, when I found out I didn't like how they felt to play at all) so I'm broadly acustomed to Ostheer. However I probably played 20 2v2 ATs with my partner on the latest version of the balance prior to the WFA launch. I mean that's technically a couple of patches but I think some of them were stability hotfixes or something, becuase we never got changelogs for them.

With that said, access to a squad with MP44s from Tier 0 definitely changes things when OKW is involved, in terms of allied squad survivability. It reminds me of when Shock troops were 1CP. Well, it's not necessarily as unbalanced as that, but it puts me into the same mindset of paranoia whenever a squad is isolated and the enemy shows up. Sturmpios are certainly not invincible and I have defeated them on many occasions, even with standard Riflemen. Although it is extremely punishing to engage them in any situation where you have to actually attack them. I'll probably experiment with smoke grenades or something, but I still don't like how it feels to have them.

This isn't something that can be fixed naturally, it's a fundamneetal part of the faction design. But then again I dislike OKW generally, with their trucks, elite units etc. I was a proponent of the WFA being kept discreet from the Eastern Front factions for purposes of competitive multi, since it would simplify balance. Of course, you guys threw them together most likely because you were scared of fragmenting the playerbase. Now it feels like a wierd situation where the Western Front gets all the cool high tech toys, and the Eastern Front got the sloppy seconds of the Wehrmacht. Kinda silly but what can you do. Well I mean, we could have gotten a non-German faction as our second Axis army!

:p

Also next time it comes up at a meeting or something, please remind people of how silly it is for the effective range of flamethrowers to be greater than the effective range of submachine guns in the game. it's like all the balistic weapons have extremely minimized ranges, but the flamethrowers are somewhat close to what they might have been.

firehawk12 said:
I haven't been keeping up, but they're doing a Europe expansion again?

Why no love for the Pacific Theater?
Click to expand...

Pacific theatre would be a completely different game from regular CoH. Hardly any tank engagements, certainly nothing approaching heavy armor. Naval stuff is very important in relation to it. If you were just going to do CoH with Japan vs USMC I'm not sure how interested I would be.

Edit:

trolltruck.gif
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I was a proponent of the WFA being kept discreet from the Eastern Front factions for purposes of competitive multi, since it would simplify balance. Of course, you guys threw them together most likely because you were scared of fragmenting the playerbase.

Also next time it comes up at a meeting or something, please remind people of how silly it is for the effective range of flamethrowers to be greater than the effective range of submachine guns in the game. it's like all the ballistic weapons have extremely minimized ranges, but the flamethrowers are somewhat close to what they might have been.
Click to expand...

Haha, to be honest, the new factions were never intended to operate or play separately from the 'old' armies. While the Soviets and US Forces never really fought alongside one another (and interestingly became adversaries almost immediately after 1945) the ultimate goal was to create new and interesting armies. It sounds cliche, but it is what we wanted - especially as players of the game ourselves.

I will definitely bring up the Flamethrower range thing. If you guys have other concerns, please let me know... The data we collect only gives us a very small picture of the game; it certainly helps to get thoughts / suggestions / ideas from people in the trenches :) And yes, I do kinda hate how Flamethrowers seem to outrange most small arms. The AI loves to upgrade their Pioneers with them, too. I'm a grenade-guy myself, so that's where most of my Munitions go :)

One question DeafMutes: What do you dislike about the sWS trucks? I assume you played them in the Alpha when they were a much more important part of the OKW economy and had huge map control power... Do you like them more or less than before?
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
Previously, the trucks were what caused you to get normal fuel income on some points. Now I think you increased fuel income overall, but made the trucks not secure resourcing. Back then I hated the trucks because they were so wildly map dependant. On some maps your trucks were relatively safe, on others they were in constant danger. Additionally, on certain small maps the old Flak Truck could completely ruin the flow of the map by its positioning on a strategic position. Then, on certain larger maps you couldn't even lock down your fuel because it was more than 3 sectors away.

I dislike the new truck because it feels completely superfluous. I mean forget the heavy crush issue for a minute, why do we even have neutral trucks spawning now? Previously it was necessary because it was part of your economy. If you tried to use your trucks for heavy crush you would be sacrificing resources by doing so. Now there's no logical reason for them to show up before you want to construct your next Tier. IMO, you shouldn't get neutral trucks until you pay a fixed resource fee to summon it, including fuel costs. In response, you could change the teching costs for each tier since it's partially paid for by summoning the truck, and also reduce the construction time because you now you have to wait for it to get on the field to build it.

In general, I'm undecided on the forward base issue. I played a lot of Brit in Coh1, and although it's not strictly the same, it's still making a core part of the faction somewhat map dependent.
 
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