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[bitwise]

i could give a fuck about BLinx.

Conker has a lot more going for it, the LIVE aspect alone will spur some sales above what you are predicting.

 

[Mama Smurf]

You know thats besides the point. Whats the point of Rare putting their E IP's on Xbox or Xenon Naked? Sure you have to start somwhere but its pointless to have Rare in there fighting the good fight when they could be building solid fanbases on Xbox with their more adult IP's. I say they capture the Xbox markets respect first with a title they can related to THEN hit em with their more Kid oriented titles. Worked on the N64.

They're making PD0 already! Rare have at least 5 teams for consoles, they do can do both. I have not said once here that I don't think Rare should be making their M rated games, I've only been saying they should make Banjo.

And MS don't need Rare to build that fanbase. That fanbase exists! MS want to win this gen, not consolidate their position. And that means targeting everyine, like Sony do. You cannot sit on what you've got in this market, look at Nintendo. MS need to focus on two things next gen: the Japanese market and bringing in the younger demographic. We know they're doing the first, and I'm confident they're doing the second. Rare is perfect for that.

In retrospect I should of asked you how much would it of sold on Xbox because the varying unkown factors make that guess just as legitimate as mine.

Oh I dunno...300,000? I don't care how it would have sold on the Xbox though, it doesn't matter.

Needless sarcasm.

Sarcasm is never needless when you're British.

Regardless if you wish to acknowledge that Xbox's weakest sector is its Kid market Rare isn't in a position to change that. They do compliment MS but not in the way we were arguing. We talked about Rare needing a springboard game of Mario popularity in order to support that with their own IP's. MS doesn't have that.

Yet they ARE in a position. Not alone, no. But they have the basis to buld things round. NO ONE has IPs as big as Nintendo. Especially Mario. It's ridiculous to think they have to have something that big to be successful. I'm sure MS would love to have Mario, but they can't. And they can't have DK, Yoshi or Kirby either, which are probably the next ones in line. But I don't see Sony floundering without them. Jak, Ratchet, Sly...no one knew these names before this gen. No one knew Spyro or Crash the gen before that.

You just need something big. Not gargantuan big. Just big. then support it with the other games, like the oines they tried to focus on last gen. Banjo fits the bill.

 

[Shaheed79]

i could give a fuck about BLinx.

Conker has a lot more going for it, the LIVE aspect alone will spur some sales above what you are predicting.

We'll see.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Then again, this is Rare's first online game. Perhaps the net code is what bogged them down?

i seriously doubt it when they have MS at their disposal.

 

[Mama Smurf]

What the hell is with this idea that the game needs to be as big as Mario?

 

[bitwise]

What the hell is with this idea that the game needs to be as big as Mario?

because otherwise it will be a total failure! :lol :lol

i think thats what im hearing, anyways

 

[border]

So what should the waste money on? Another new IP that won't sell?

How about a new IP that will sell? Jak & Daxter and Ratchett & Clank have a quirky, iconic sort of look, but they at least purport themselves to be epic fantasy/adventure and epic sci-fi properties. As a result, they have pretty wide appeal. Make a game about a dimwitted cartoon bear going up against a wicked witch (could it have a more tired and juvenille-looking story?), and it will tank.

N64 had a built-in audience that wanted cartoony, colorful, kooky platformers, thanks to Mario 64. That's why Banjo sold. If Banjo has to build this audience on its own, then I think that's a recipe for problems.

 

[TheTurtleTitan]

By the way, am I the only one that remembered that yesterday was Bad Fur Day's 4th anniversery?

 

[Shaheed79]

Mama Smurf it sounds like you agree with some of my reasoning but not my end analysis. I guess it all comes down to this.

MS need to focus on two things next gen: the Japanese market and bringing in the younger demographic. We know they're doing the first, and I'm confident they're doing the second. Rare is perfect for that.

This somewhats contradicts your latter statements. Not totally. Just a tad.

Yet they ARE in a position. Not alone, no. But they have the basis to buld things round. NO ONE has IPs as big as Nintendo. Especially Mario. It's ridiculous to think they have to have something that big to be successful. I'm sure MS would love to have Mario, but they can't. And they can't have DK, Yoshi or Kirby either, which are probably the next ones in line. But I don't see Sony floundering without them. Jak, Ratchet, Sly...no one knew these names before this gen. No one knew Spyro or Crash the gen before that.

And then.

You just need something big. Not gargantuan big. Just big. then support it with the other games, like the oines they tried to focus on last gen. Banjo fits the bill.

So they can do it with Banjo but not alone? Your putting too tall of an order on Banjo me thinks.

 

[Mama Smurf]

How about a new IP that will sell?

Sure, they should go for it. But Rare have lots of teams. They can make a Banjo game, and new titles.

Jak & Daxter and Ratchett & Clank have a quirky, iconic sort of look, but they at least purport themselves to be epic fantasy/adventure and epic sci-fi properties. As a result, they have pretty wide appeal. Make a game about a dimwitted cartoon bear going up against a wicked witch (could it have a more tired and juvenille-looking story?), and it will tank.

But if you're trying to build up the audience, you need those sort of games.

N64 had a built-in audience that wanted cartoony, colorful, kooky platformers, thanks to Mario 64. That's why Banjo sold. If Banjo has to build this audience on its own, then I think that's a recipe for problems.

Once again, where's the assumption coming from that it's on it's own? Any game on it's own is going to struggle to build an audience.

Honestly, I wonder if some of you think MS can get to the top like they plan to without getting a good chunk of the younger market. They don't have to rule it, but they need soem of it. Just like Sony.

 

[Shaheed79]

because otherwise it will be a total failure! :lol :lol

i think thats what im hearing, anyways

It would make you very happy for me to say something like that wouldn't it? Just so you can dismiss everything else.

MS has accomplishment a LOT this gen........at a cost. But one thing they totally failed on doing was providing any base to springboard a solid Kids Market on their next console. That may change in the future but you and Smurf's guess that they Will accomplish is at the ver least as unlikely as me saying they won't. I just don't see it yet. Lord knows how you guys do.

 

[bitwise]

yeah, yeah.. everyone's an analyst

regardless, I will be playing Conker.

 

[Mama Smurf]

This somewhats contradicts your latter statements. Not totally. Just a tad.

How so?

So they can do it with Banjo but not alone? Your putting too tall of an order on Banjo me thinks.

It's very simple. Look at it like this:

Bad scenario #1

MS: "Hey guys we've got Banjo!"

Customer: "Hey Banjo's pretty cool, I really liked that game. I'm not going to buy an Xbox 360 for one game though."

Bad scenario #2

MS: "Hey guys, we've got Tork and Voodoo Vince and Blinx (etc)!"

Customer: "Well...they sound kind of interesting...but there's nothing which really stands out."

Scenario I'm suggesting

MS: "Hey guys, we've got Banjo AND Tork, Voodoo Vince and Blinx!"

Customer: "Hey Banjo's cool, and I wouldn't mind trying those other games, they sound interesting."

Hurrah, sales!

Ok, an oversimplification. But just to show how Banjo could pull people in and that, while it may not be able to do it alone, with support it could.

That may change in the future but you and Smurf's guess that they Will accomplish is at the ver least as unlikely as me saying they won't.

Hey, I'm not guessing they WILL do it. I am however guessing they'll try, and could do it. Don't get me wrong, MS could come out of next gen with no greater grasp on the kid's market than they have now, but I know they'll try to get it, and I think they're right to try. I also think Banjo will be at the heart of it.

 

[Shaheed79]

Smurf the last scenario would work perfectly if it had games like R&C, J&D to compliment it exclusively.

EDIT: We'll just leave it at that then. I won't say No Way but it is unlikely until we see some pretty major Kid targeted aquistions by MS.

 

[border]

But if you're trying to build up the audience, you need those sort of games.

Sony didn't. So far nobody is really able to crack the pure-youth market like Nintendo. The trick is building games that have cross appeal between kids and older markets. Sony did it with irreverent characters like Crash, J&D, and R&C. "Banjo the Pooh fights the wicked witch" only alienates older types.

At the end of the day, you can control a solid portion of the younger market just by rising to dominance in the older market and providing some crossover titles that are family-friendly but not overtly "kiddie". Kids want what's "cool" anyhow, and if your platform is popular enough 3rd parties will step in and help you out with NickToons-licensed shovelware or whatever.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Yeah, as it is now. Now isn't the Xbox 360. R&C and J&D didn't exist a generation ago, look how they sell. Yet you can't accept that MS might be doing the same thing?

Maybe they're not. Maybe they are. Just accept that it could happen, that's all I ask. This is what started it:

Xbox consoles will never have great selling games aimed at kids.

It's the firm belief it can't happen I'm arguing against.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Sony didn't. So far nobody is really able to crack the pure-youth market like Nintendo. The trick is building games that have cross appeal between kids and older markets. Sony did it with irreverent characters like Crash, J&D, and R&C. "Banjo the Pooh fights the wicked witch" only alienates older types.

At the end of the day, you can control a solid portion of the younger market just by rising to dominance in the older market and providing some crossover titles that are family-friendly but not overtly "kiddie". Kids want what's "cool" anyhow, and if your platform is popular enough 3rd parties will step in and help you out with NickToons-licensed shovelware or whatever.

Crash and Spyro were pretty kiddy. You don't have to crack the market like Nintendo, it's just not realistic to even attempt to. It's not like the games MS tried weren't in the vein of the Sony titles though.

Sont got to the top on cool games and then more of the younger titles came out, I know. And it makes sense in the situation. But MS aren't in the same situation. They can't get to the top just on the cool games, Sony already has that covered (something Nintendo didn't when Sony blew past them). So I don't think MS can afford to wait to get to the top before they get some of that market, because I don't think they;ll get there without them.

You and I have come along way here from simply arguing whether Banjo will turn up or not. Have I convinced anyone Rare are making a Banjo game?

 

[Shaheed79]

Touche. I retract said statement. It's not impossible just very unlikely given the factors involved thus far. Saying Xbox consoles was a wrong term to use when I was more specifically referring to Xbox and 360.