Support NeoGAF

[dr_octagon]

Digital rights for consumers has been improved and clarified thanks to a recent decision by Europe. I decided to make a general thread providing advice, suggestions and help make people aware of the issue. The recent developments mean it will be better for consumers when dealing with digital goods. Games shouldn't be treated differently and if you request a refund for a faulty game, you can be confident the law is on your side. It's easy to say Google it but that doesn't always help, it's about making sense of it all and assisting others in the process. A lot of answers will be 'it depends'. A refund may be common but a person may decide to take credit or an alternative game. There will also be developments with DLC (which are also covered). Even if it's not clear about every scenario, this legislation is designed to protect consumers and give you confidence. There is loads more detail and some stuff has already been discussed (links below). The plan will be to keep this updated and have something to refer to. Thanks to those who have already made threads which contain lots of useful links and info

Digital Content Consumer Rights Legislation (The Cowboy)
Refund for Battlefield 4 (cjp)
Game refund rights (Peter Parrish)
What are my rights when buying digital content?
Contracts and cancelling digital purchases
Taking rights into the digital age
Retailers 'fobbing customers off' over returning faulty products
Sale of Goods Act explained
Common consumer problems
Guidance on new legislation


Entitled gamers lololol
When you have received a faulty product, something which was incorrectly advertised or not fit for purpose - you are entitled to a refund. It's covered by legislation and consumers are encouraged to exercise their rights. Would you be happy to keep a toaster which broke after a week? Europe decided rights of consumers should be enforced by law and gives confidence to those who wish to exercise those rights. It's encouraged that people do because they have paid for something which shouldn't fall apart or fail to work as described. This covers toasters, fridges, cars, iPhones, televisions, computers and games containing seagulls. Digital goods are covered which is a good thing for consumers. Everyone is welcome to take any advice but local laws will apply in countries outside of EU.

When it applies
Customer purchases a game which is missing a mode, doesn't work online or is riddled with bugs. You can complain but will be told 'no refund' in different ways. A faulty game is faulty, you don't wait for a patch for your new toaster so don't take bullshit from these companies. You also contact the company you bought from (not the manufacturer) - even if they play dumb. Be cool and persistent, you know your stuff and don't be afraid to show it. This is not for when you want to return a game which had a disappointing storyline (see Mass Effect 3). It's also not a way to buy a game and return it after completion. Example - if you've read the spec requirement incorrectly, that would be your own fault. If the spec requirement is incorrect and you've tested the game on multiple machines (and it still doesn't work), it would warrant a refund. A broken consoles or a game (digital or physical) which is unplayable would also be covered. Another example is an unwanted gift which hasn't been downloaded or installed. You have a 14 day cooling period to return it but it must remain unused. That makes sense and companies can revoke licenses or check if something has been installed. The right to cancel already applies to physical goods so this just brings digital goods in line with that. People are paying for something which should work as advertised. It's not a huge expectation and digital goods (games, software and music) shouldn't be exempt. Sim City and Battlefield 4 are recent examples of when problems occur.

Solutions
Refund (partial / full / credit)
A fix to the problem (which doesn't take forever)
Replacement (or equivalent / alternative game)

It depends on the situation, there is no single solution to everything and factors such as price may impact. If a repair will take months, that may not be considered reasonable. At the same time, the seller won't be expected to spend more than the product to find a fix. A refund would probably be the best option in that scenario. If a refund is not possible, that doesn't mean there is no solution available. You need to allow for a reasonable time for a fix or a suitable remedy. Don't worry about being offered something as a goodwill gesture. Companies are obliged to refund you or fix the problem and may call it goodwill but it remains a legal requirement. You can confidently put pressure on them given the recent changes.

Writing a letter / email
This can be confusing and people are always misled, told they are wrong and have no rights. This happens all the time with physical goods. As it stands right now, you are in a solid position. Companies assume customers don't know their rights and will annoy you at every turn. You haven't signed away your rights and the idea of no refunds doesn't apply to new purchases (so don't worry). Keep communication in writing whenever possible, include your contact details, screenshots, copy of proof of purchase. Be polite, direct and persistent. Send a letter through the post if you want to show you mean business. I've set out a rough template to assist.

Dear COMPANY

I purchased GAME from STORE on DATE OF PURCHASE and paid AMOUNT. I formally request a refund because GAME has the following issues which means it is unplayable - LIST PROBLEMS

- or -

GAME was incorrectly advertised and does not have MISSING FEATURES as stated on the description.

Should you fail to provide a suitable alternative / working replacement / fix within 30 days, I expect a full refund.

Please note, I have read your terms and I have not waived my right to request a refund (as outlined by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977). My right to expect a product which is 'as described and fit for purpose' is covered under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and reinforced by the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013.

Furthermore, I purchased the game from COMPANY and will not be contacting any other party. If there is no resolution within 30 days from TODAY's DATE, I shall escalate the matter. I have included my details and a copy of proof of purchase. I hope this matter can be resolved quickly.

Yours sincerely

NAME

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Cancellations

Dear COMPANY

I would like to return the following game(s) - GAME and request a full refund under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. I purchased GAME from STORE on DATE OF PURCHASE and paid AMOUNT

I have contacted you within 14 days and the games have not been used. Please note, the download process has not commenced (in part or otherwise). The game is being returned in the exact same condition. I grant COMPANY permission to revoke the license for that purchase. My right to cancel still remains, regardless of your terms and conditions.

- Add any screenshots / information to show the games are un-downloaded -

If there is no refund within 14 days from TODAY's DATE, I shall escalate the matter. I have included my details and a copy of proof of purchase. I hope this matter can be resolved quickly.

Yours sincerely

NAME

The above relates to UK consumers but you can still quote Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 and your own country's own legislation. If you are refused, just refer back to what you've said and explain how you are exercising your consumer rights. Say they have a statutory obligation, be polite and persistent. Ask them for more information and say you will escalate the matter.


Contacts

Sony - Playstation UK: 0203 538 2665 | help@uk.playstation.com | @PlayStationEU

Sony Network Entertainment Europe Limited of 10 Great Marlborough Street, London W1F 7LP, UK
Tel: 0207 859 5000

sonyentertainment.uk@eu.sony.com

Consumer Services, Sony Computer Entertainment UK, PO BOX 2047, London, W1A 5HY

List of EU PS contacts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Microsoft - Xbox UK: 0800 587 1102 | @XboxSupport

Microsoft Ltd, Microsoft Campus, Reading, RG6 1WG, UK

http://support.xbox.com/en-gb/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steam - Raising a support ticket | @Steam_Support

Valve Corporation, P.O. Box 1688, Bellevue, WA 98009, USA

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nintendo - UK: 0345 60 50 247 | customer-support@nintendo.co.uk | @NintendoEurope

Nintendo Customer Support, PO Box 952, Portsmouth, PO6 9DY, UK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UK European Consumer Centre | 08456 04 05 03 | F: +44 (0)8456 08 96 00 | E: ecc@tsi.org.uk

Terms and conditions
The agreement can sometimes highlight your right, even if a customer advisor says they do not exist.

Steam

However, where the laws of Luxembourg provide a lower degree of consumer protection than the laws of your country of residence, the consumer protection laws of your country shall prevail

PSN - Services and games

(ii) You cannot obtain a refund for orders of digital services (such as subscriptions to PlayStation Plus) unless EU consumer laws apply to your order, in which case you can cancel that order within 14 days of the date your order is accepted. You will receive a refund of the purchase price to your SEN wallet, minus a deduction for the value of the service you accessed before cancellation takes effect.

(i) For orders (other than pre-orders) of digital content products (such as games, add-ons or subscriptions to Music Unlimited), you agree that we may make those products available to you immediately after we have accepted your order and once made available, as far as permitted by law, you will have no right to cancel your order or to a "cooling off period".

There is a very important point about cancellations - you do have rights in certain circumstances but it's not entirely clear. See my post (#127) for more info

 

[Polk]

Well almost all EU. My country (Poland) and Hungary were only two countries that forgot about deadline.
Shame on us.

 

[danielcw]

You have to got to your retailer for a refund, not to the publisher/maker, right?

 

[KtSlime]

Yeah, we get it. In the EU humans are the citizens, in the US corporations are the citizens.

Good on the EU, seems kind of silly that the government needs to get involved in these types of things, but if corporations are taking advantage of people, it's best to nip it in the bud right away rather than let corporations get a free pass on everything like they do in the US.

 

[Marvel]

Not all of EU, sadly.

 

[mossypne]

And this is one of the reasons the UK leaving the EU is a bad idea.

 

[Enco]

So would this work for Saints Row 2 or is that way too old?

 

[Nikodemos]

Good Guy EU, again.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Great for the EU. The US is so terrible to consumers. Great thread. Everyone should voice their opinion.

The worst are consumers who sell each other out. "BUT THE EULA SAID YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS SO DEAL WITH IT!" Screw off. As if EULA means everything.

I also hate how publishers think they can take advantage of region pricing while consumers can't.

 

[Xater]

So would this work for Saints Row 2 or is that way too old?

I doubt it would work retroactively, but it's good to be aware of it for the future.

 

[Joni]

You have to got to your retailer for a refund, not to the publisher/maker, right?

Yes. The retailer has sold the product so it is responsible. So for a digital version of Battlefield 4 for instance it would be Sony/MS and not EA.

 

[Enco]

Great for the EU. The US is so terrible to consumers.

The worst are consumers who sell each other out. "BUT THE EULA SAID YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS SO DEAL WITH IT!" Screw off.

Totally.

The people who always side with companies fucking suck. "You're entitled if you think you deserve a patch/refund for your buggy game". Shut up.

 

[dc89]

And this is one of the reasons the UK leaving the EU is a bad idea.

In some respects the UK's own consumer rights offer more protection than the EU's.

For example, Sales of Goods Act. But then again, due to shows on TV which poorly educate consumers, consumers think they are entitled to solutions they actually aren't.

 

[abracadaver]

Does this mean I can get my money back once GFWL shuts down and my games are no longer playable ?

 

[Xater]

Yes. The retailer has sold the product so it is responsible. So for a digital version of Battlefield 4 for instance it would be Sony/MS and not EA.

If you bought it on PC it would be EA though. It's only available on Origin if I am not mistaken.

Does this mean I can get my money back once GFWL shuts down and my games are no longer playable ?

Now that is an interesting question.

 

[Joni]

If you bought it on PC it would be EA though. It's only available on Origin if I am not mistaken.

Of course. But that would be quite unclear for my example as EA is both retailer and the maker.

Does this mean I can get my money back once GFWL shuts down and my games are no longer playable ?

I'd have to read more closely, but I'd think the normal 2 year guarantee is valid in this case too. So probably no because you'd have bought the game much longer ago.

 

[nynt9]

This is incredible. It's baffling how companies mistreat people in the USA. I hope this will make game companies more reluctant to screw over gamers.

 

[Nokterian]

Pretty awesome to see this and they need to obey the law no matter what they say about there EULA or whatever. So we have Net Neutrality and more stronger consumer rights towards digital goods. Such a shame though how it doesn't work in america. Since company's are people to for example.

 

[gogogow]

I welcome this legislation. But man I can already see certain scenarios happening. Someone buys a PC game and/or a console game with DLC codes, uses them to redeem the game and/or DLC and returns it, because it's faulty. Shop gives you a refund, but also puts the game back to sell it to another person.

I really think publishers needs to cover these codes with that silver powdery stuff, no idea what's it's called. The only one that uses it are Microsoft (Alan Wake, Gears 2 GOTY, but I don't know if it's consistent with MS) and Nintendo (for their Club Nintendo points).

 

[danielcw]

If you bought it on PC it would be EA though. It's only available on Origin if I am not mistaken.

You can also buy the PC version at retail, or on Uplay for example.
Yes, you still need to use Origin, but your retailer would not be Origin (or EA) in that case.

 

[soulassssns]

Wake up already Murica!

sigh....

 

[Yagharek]

Hopefully this will have the effect of making fraudulent companies like EA and Bethesda actually debug their games. Even people outside EU will benefit if that happens.

Not holding my breath though.

 

[Xater]

You can also buy the PC version at retail, or on Uplay for example.
Yes, you still need to use Origin, but your retailer would not be Origin (or EA) in that case.

I was only thinking about the digital release, didn't know you could buy it on Uplay though.

 

[danielcw]

but I'd think the normal 2 year guarantee is valid in this case too.

I kinda doubt the the 2 year warranty for electronic devices applies to games and/or pure software
("firmware" in electronic devices is another topic)

didn't know you could buy it on Uplay though.

Many, if not most, Origin and Uplay PC games can be bought on each other's shop

 

[Hamster Plugin]

What games would this apply to? What if the game is just poor quality like Ride to Hell Retribution? What if just parts of a game suck like all side content in Assassins Creed 3 (story missions are OK)?

 

[AkIRA_22]

And this is one of the reasons the UK leaving the EU is a bad idea.

Not necessarily, if the British parliament can make it's own effective moves on this front it really doesn't make any difference. Here in Australia we've taken a similar avenue to the EU, the Australian government did it all on their lonesome, they didn't need any one from Europe to tell them to do it. It was a good idea and they did it.

The OP is basically word for word the exact same as Australia.

Consumer Guarantee

Repair, replace, refund

 

[atpbx]

So would this work for Saints Row 2 or is that way too old?

It applies to any game, regardless of when it was released provided it was purchased after the date the law game into effect.

For instance, if I had bought the ID mega pack from steam today, instead of last year, I could demand a partial refund because half of it flatly refuses to run under the conditions it says it should do, even though the games themselves are over ten years old.

Hopefully it will stop steam selling any old untested shite and expecting the consumer to suck it up when they give us the finger.

 

[Madness]

Why is the US singled out? I'm pretty sure EU is one of the only places where consumer rights have become stringent. I agree that the US is behind, but that's what happens when you don't have a strong centralized government. Not even Canada has these types of consumer rights yet either. Were it not for the EU as a powerful supranational entity, it would've been the same case for a lot of European countries as well. Sometimes the EU forces countries to act a certain way or pass legislation.

This is a good thing though. Usually, European trends are followed by the greater global community at large. Because there is so much business in the EU and you can't risk running afoul. I really like when Europe pushes some kind of environmental/health directive because it usually benefits the rest in some way. Let's see how it plays out though.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

And this is one of the reasons the UK leaving the EU is a bad idea.

I doubt the racist blinkered fucks representing parties like UKIP or the BNP have even considered things like consumer rights. All they think is "herp derp immigrants".

 

[KtSlime]

Not necessarily, if the British parliament can make it's own effective moves on this front it really doesn't make any difference. Here in Australia we've taken a similar avenue to the EU, the Australian government did it all on their lonesome, they didn't need any one from Europe to tell them to do it. It was a good idea and they did it.

Sure, if you are a responsible country like Australia who actually has a decent minimum wage, proper workers and consumer rights, and a bunch of other sound laws, you don't need someone watching over your shoulder, but some countries just aren't up to the task.

 

[pa22word]

What if just parts of a game suck like all side content in Assassins Creed 3 (story missions are OK)?

Unless they explicitly advertised the side content as awesome for you personally, you're probably out of luck.

 

[Tunesmith]

I was only thinking about the digital release, didn't know you could buy it on Uplay though.

You can buy digitally via Amazon as well, they redeem directly in Origin without providing any game codes.

 

[atpbx]

In addendum to my post above, Currys PC world have their own strange idea about how they fix or replace goods, they say the consumer has to contact their Know How service department and arrange repairs through them over the phone.

Every time I have had a faulty product from them I've just taken it back to the point of purchase and pointed it out to them that's it's not up to me do do anything to fix the product, be it phone calls, emails, arranging to send it back, have it collected or what ever.

Left them with the goods and told them to contact me when it's fixed, and that's exactly what has happened.

 

[Polk]

What games would this apply to? What if the game is just poor quality like Ride to Hell Retribution? What if just parts of a game suck like all side content in Assassins Creed 3 (story missions are OK)?

I think neither games could be applied here, unless they don't work (ie. are crashing) or lack of features they were were supposed to have.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Great for the EU. The US is so terrible to consumers. Great thread. Everyone should voice their opinion.

The worst are consumers who sell each other out. "BUT THE EULA SAID YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS SO DEAL WITH IT!" Screw off. As if EULA means everything.

I also hate how publishers think they can take advantage of region pricing while consumers can't.

Totally.

The people who always side with companies fucking suck. "You're entitled if you think you deserve a patch/refund for your buggy game". Shut up.

I remember in a thread a while back in Off-Topic, there was a kid in the EU who was thrown in jail for using racial slurs at someone on Facebook (or something like that). Many of the American posters were pretty flabbergasted and confused as to how someone could be thrown in jail for their speech (the First Amendment guaranteeing the right to free speech without being thrown in jail is very important to us here), while many others were for it and were confused as to how others thought it didn't deserve jail time.

I think this could possibly be a similar situation. Many aren't used to the protections the EU gives, and therefore are confused as to how someone could complain when it says what would happen right in the EULA. In the U.S., it could easily look more "entitled" if someone wants a refund because a game is buggy, because it's just something we're not used to.

Basically... I wonder if it is a culture thing.

 

[dr_octagon]

Does this mean I can get my money back once GFWL shuts down and my games are no longer playable ?

if the games are removed a few months down the line, it's more straightforward but it may be unlikely few years down the line. (factors like price and how much you've played it would be considered). it's not a definite answer but until people try it, it's gonna be 'it depends / maybe'

In some respects the UK's own consumer rights offer more protection than the EU's.

For example, Sales of Goods Act. But then again, due to shows on TV which poorly educate consumers, consumers think they are entitled to solutions they actually aren't.

They should definitely explain it in more detail. A refund is usually the easiest but the seller always has a chance to fix the problem and can ask for the buyer to demonstrate the fault. As an example, I asked Comet to send me a technical report on the faulty PS3 I bought. They wrote to me and said they were not authorised to open the device (even though someone from their store said I would have to pay £150 for it to be checked). I said they would have to refund me the cost of an engineer's report a fault was found (the blu ray drive). I was able to sort it myself so it didn't go any further.

 

[gogogow]

What games would this apply to? What if the game is just poor quality like Ride to Hell Retribution? What if just parts of a game suck like all side content in Assassins Creed 3 (story missions are OK)?

Isn't this law for games that doesn't work properly in a technical way? So if the AC3 side missions sucks, means you are not having a good time, then I don't think it falls under this law. Just like the ME3 example in the OP.

I'm still not sure how this would work with physical games. The store clerk just have to take your words for it (even though you're telling the truth)? Or you are bringing a game back with code unused, how can they check it's redeemd or not?

 

[danielcw]

but that's what happens when you don't have a strong centralized government. Not even Canada has these types of consumer rights yet either. Were it not for the EU as a powerful supranational entity, it would've been the same case for a lot of European countries as well. Sometimes the EU forces countries to act a certain way or pass legislation.

The EU government is not that powerful.

Most EU countries have some good ideas here and there, the EU puts them in a mixer.

 

[Magician]

Question, what if it doesn't work out and then my hand is forced to escalate the matter. How do I proceed to escalate it specifically?

 

[Visualante2]

Excellent threads. Thank you, these laws are long overdue.

 

[Xater]

Question, what if it doesn't work out and then my hand is forced to escalate the matter. How do I proceed to escalate it specifically?

I would probably contact my local consumer rights organization.

 

[Weng]

I just wanted to thank dr_octagon for creating this thread.

 

[danielcw]

The worst are consumers who sell each other out. "BUT THE EULA SAID YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS SO DEAL WITH IT!" Screw off. As if EULA means everything.

I also hate how publishers think they can take advantage of region pricing while consumers can't.

Of course EULAs mean something, they are contracts.
Most of the time the problem are not the EULAs, but the circumstances in which they are presented. or certain sections are overruled by local laws.



Concerning local laws:
Which law does apply to me?
I am a Germany citizen,
If I buy something from Valve, the contract is made between me, and Valve's affiliate in Luxembourg. Which law does aplly?

If I buy something from Xbox Live, the contract is between me and Microsoft in Ireland. Which law does aplly here?

Nintendo Of Europe is in Germany

Where are Apple and Sony, and Uplay, and Origin, and all the other companies located?

If I buy from GreenManGaming and GOG, where are they? And which law does apply?

I also hate how publishers think they can take advantage of region pricing while consumers can't.

I am a consumer, I can take advantage of other region's pricing.

 

[dr_octagon]

Question, what if it doesn't work out and then my hand is forced to escalate the matter. How do I proceed to escalate it specifically?

even if you have a rock solid claim, it's worth seeking advice and encouraged that you try to resolve the matter with the seller (it costs money to make a claim and court action should be a last resort)

UK - http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

 

[Joni]

The EU government is not that powerful.

Most EU countries have some good ideas here and there, the EU puts them in a mixer.

And there is the small matter every country has to implement them if the EU does.

 

[Ban Puncher]

I remember a few years ago my Sony LCD TV started having issues so I rang Sony and they basically told me to pay up (an amount almost as much as a new television) or piss off. I called the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the guy on the phone told me to call Sony back and say two words - 'Statutory Rights'.

I did that and the next day some guys came to pick up my TV, brought it back within the week with a new LCD panel installed at zero cost. No delivery, labour or parts fees. And the TV hasn't missed a beat since.

Statutory Rights are pretty dope.

 

[abracadaver]

I'd have to read more closely, but I'd think the normal 2 year guarantee is valid in this case too. So probably no because you'd have bought the game much longer ago.

if the games are removed a few months down the line, it's more straightforward but it may be unlikely few years down the line. (factors like price and how much you've played it would be considered). it's not a definite answer but until people try it, it's gonna be 'it depends / maybe'

Only bought them recently. I even plan to buy more of them (red faction guerilla and dead rising 2)
bulletstorm was in the summer sale just 2 days ago and flatout UC yesterday

rumored GFWL shut down is july 1st.

 

[dr_octagon]

I just wanted to thank dr_octagon for creating this thread.

thanks, hope people find it useful and this is an ongoing thing - so anyone can drop me a pm or bump the thread if you need advice, any suggestions for links or info, i'll update the OP

 

[pa22word]

For instance, if I had bought the ID mega pack from steam today, instead of last year, I could demand a partial refund because half of it flatly refuses to run under the conditions it says it should do, even though the games themselves are over ten years old.

Hopefully it will stop steam selling any old untested shite and expecting the consumer to suck it up when they give us the finger.

Likely nothing's going to change other than them putting the original system requirements up on steam and leaving a disclaimer stating that any other hardware configurations are untested and unsupported.

Seriously though: who in the hell buys the id games on steam and doesn't run the games through a sourceport?

 

[Joni]

Only bought them recently. I even plan to buy more of them (red faction guerilla and dead rising 2)
bulletstorm was in the summer sale just 2 days ago and flatout UC yesterday

rumored GFWL shut down is july 1st.

In that case you should be able to get a refund. But why buy more of them if you're going to lose access anyway?