Convergence? PS3 & Xbox2 misguided...Nintendo on the right path!
- Thread starter moondance
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radioheadrule83
Banned
Agree to some extent. Too drunk to cohesively reply beyond this though. Must go unconcious sioon
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
My modded Xbox says different
radioheadrule83
Banned
metdroid said:
are you not a gadget fetishist though? I'd bet most here are. I doubt any modding among the mainstream community goes on, unless its for purposes of ARrR! piracy
I think theres an argument that a lot of people were happy about DVD playback this gen, but is it important next gen? I don't know. HD-DVD/Bluray even... I don't see people buying their collection again. Not where I live anyway. VHS had a 20 year run for fucks sake...
I think people just want their games next gen... and I get the impression Sony are gonna release some overhyped mega-broadband machine, while MS try to combat that in their own way. I don't know if Revolution will live up to it's namesake either. Just give us some fucking new games...
Will a console's ability to do other things than just play games ever stop someone who is interested in the console's game library from buying it?
Will a console's ability to do other things than just play games make someone that normally wouldn't buy a gaming console take a second look?
Will a console's ability to do other things than just play games make someone that normally wouldn't buy a gaming console take a second look?
Arcticfox said:
With hardware companies selling the systems at a significant loss, the software attach rate is very important. If people are buying the PSP for the music and movie functionality and not really the games(which is what it seems like from the software sales so far) Sony will be in a lot of trouble. Also Games will have to compete with whatever else you can do on the platform which could be harmful to software sales. Thus why 3rd parties are a little weary about these do-it-all machines that will be released next gen.
I'm sure if Nintendo was in the same position as Sony, with the same clout in other mediums as Sony does, they would be singing a different tune. Their PR line goes against convergence because they do not have an advantage in that area.
EDIT: In the area that they do have a lot of clout, they have been exploiting convergence rather heavily with the GBA videos and Pokemon. That's been a success, wouldn't you say?
EDIT: In the area that they do have a lot of clout, they have been exploiting convergence rather heavily with the GBA videos and Pokemon. That's been a success, wouldn't you say?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I'd say that consoles with 'covergence' features are at better chance to sell better than the alternative, dedicated gaming machines. Therefore, they'll hold more marketshare, and would actually be MORE appealing to third parties in some cases. And of course, marketshare = sales in most cases.
I think there's a flaw in Sony's business model (For third parties anyway) in the UMD, because the UMD is a nonstandard, mostly PSP exclusive format and UMD movies will compete with UMD and memstick games. Then again, I doubt game sales will suffer greatly, nor will videos sell amazingly well. *looks at GBA movie lines*
I think there's a flaw in Sony's business model (For third parties anyway) in the UMD, because the UMD is a nonstandard, mostly PSP exclusive format and UMD movies will compete with UMD and memstick games. Then again, I doubt game sales will suffer greatly, nor will videos sell amazingly well. *looks at GBA movie lines*
The Abominable Snowman said:
Well I for one am buying the PSP at launch in the U.S. But will not buy any games for it. There are just not any that interest me. The hardware is such a good bargain that I'm not going to pass it up though. The Archos Video players and things like that have always interested me, but they are too expensive. I could use the PSP as a cheap "t.v." for my car that I've been wanting on my dash. I don't think I'm in the minority in this respect because we can look at the PSP's software attach rate so far and see the same thing. Sony making any kind of profit on the PSP will be extremely hard because a lot of people are going to buy it for uses other than the gaming functions.
So if 20 million gamers buy a system for the games and another few million buy the system for its other uses, how is that worse than having only the 20 million gamers buy it in a 3rd party's eyes? That minority that bought the system just for its other uses might even decide to eventually try some cheap games (such as a Greatest Hits title) seeing as they already have the hardware, which is a great way to expand the market.Hardknock said:
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The DS has a pretty horrible attach ratio as well. On the last NPD it showed the DS as having sold more than it's games combined. The GBA has a very low attach ratio (about 3 to 4 IIRC) over 4 years. I doubt multimedia functions are the only reason.Hardknock said:
radioheadrule83
Banned
I'm waiting to see what happens at MacWorld before I say anything on convergence in the portable arena... but needless to say, video/audio isn't what interests me about PSP. It's the nice big quality screen, and nice controls.
And if you already have the system and a game is released that you find interesting, will you buy it? Your comments are nearly exactly the same as many Japanese who bought the PS2 at launch because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market, and now the PS2 has the highest tie ratio of all the current generation systems.Hardknock said:
Also, lets see what the PSP's tie ratio is this time next year before jumping to any conclusions.
Arcticfox said:
I see your point. But when the other functions are a lot more attractive to the consumer than the gaming portion that's when you have problems. Take the N-gage for example, the cell-phone and other functions are more important to the consumer than the games, thus why the games sales are so low. The PSP could very easily fall in the same boat with it's movies, MP3s and photo viewing. Also it's disheartening to 3rd parties because if the majority of PSP owners bought the system for other uses than gaming, then the "20 million" userbase doesn't benefit them at all. I think software developers would be a lot more confident in a 20 million all-gaming-device to release games on. But in the end, if the hardware is being sold at a loss, it's the hardware company that suffers the worse not so much 3rd parties.
Hardknock said:
You mean like PS2's DVD playing ability? That really killed the PS2.
Hardknock said:
How do you know this??
Guess which console plays movies and music and is also getting the most 3rd party support?
Guess which console that also plays movies and music and is also getting alot of western 3rd party support?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
PS2, which is the most convergence machine of all the three consoles out of the box (plays PS2 Games, PS1 games, Music CDs, DVDs, DVDRs) is not only by far the best selling of the three, but also has the highest attach ratio. Xbox, which can play Music CDs, and ripped MP3s out of the box, and DVDs with a small extra investment, is killing the games-only Gamecube. So much about the theory that people don't want products that do more than just gaming.
Marconelly said:
You guys are just discounting my N-gage reference though..
True enough the PS2 is selling phenomenally, but does that have to do with the mult-functionality or more to do with the playstation name??? I think more people are buying the PS2 for the games then anything else. But when the other functions of the device are more appealing, that's when you'll run into problems I would think...The Abominable Snowman
Member
The PSP is not marketed as a MP3 player or picture viewer. There are cheaper devices for those uses. The PSP is marketed and the effort is put into it being a gaming machine.Hardknock said:
The NGage game sales are so low because the NGage unit sales are so low. even still, I'm poretty sure that people wanting a cell phone with better features than the NGage can get one for about the same price. Aside that, not many popular franchises hit the system so the game unit sales are usually divided up between titles, with no main herald of sales. I don't even think the NPD covers Ngage very well, so it's moot to argue about the NGage.
The PSP is much more able as a gaming machine, and there is too much competition aside from gaming portables for the PSP for many to consider the PSP a media device over a gaming system.
And also, Sony is not planning on keeping the tecvhnology in the PSP just in the PSP. I'm fairly certain that the CPUs in the PSP are being used in their PDA line, and other gadgets. They seem to have plans for the UMD as well, so even if the PSP bombs they could possibly still profit off of it's technology.
Edit: excuse my typos. New keyboard, and the keys are layed out shittily.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Well, PS1 was also a Music CD player, and that feature was one of it's selling points.
That's very likely true, and that's why nGage is selling so poorly - it does none of it's functions particularily well, games especially. PS2 and Xbox (and PSP for that matter) on the other hand handle games really well, and other functions reasonably well too. It's not if the machine is multifunctional or not, it's how well that multifunctionality works - it must not be at the loss of the machine's main focus, be it the loss of the main functionality, or the loss in the sense that the machine's price is incresed.
Note that I do not even argue your point, I'm merely adressing the article from the original post.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
M3wThr33 said:
Let's just say that the game portion of the PSP is worth $150, equal to DS. You are still getting a picture viewer, movie viewer, and music player with a huge 4.3" screen for only $50. Memory card or not, that's an absolute steal. People would be falling over themselves running out to Best Buy if such a product existed.
Now, when you factor in that the game portion is in actuality worth much more than $150, it should become quite clear to even the biggest PSP detractors that there isn't anything on the market that even comes close.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
A HDD based devices that can play all that stuff (so, those that don't require any extra memory cards as you said) are pretty much all above the $200. Clies, Pocket PCs and other WinCE and Palm OS based devices, never come with integrated HDD to my knowledge.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
M3wThr33 said:
And what about the top of the line 4.3" screen and $200+ value gaming component?
tahrikmili
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Truer words have not been spoken.
All the market analysts are wrong. Nobody wants convergence. We want tons of useless junk in our bedrooms and living rooms. Long live the cable mess.
Guns N' Poops
Banned
Yes, Microsoft and Sony will fail, Nintendo is like second coming of Christ next gen!!!111
Gamecube is better than Xbox and PS2, because it's just a gaming machine! (with way less games :lol )
Gamecube is better than Xbox and PS2, because it's just a gaming machine! (with way less games :lol )
tahrikmili
Member
If there was anything in the market at the time I bought my xbox that could also microwave frozen pizzas and wash dishes in addition to the xbox's multimedia capabilities that would definitely have been my purchase.
The problem with convergence is that it always comes at the cost of something. The more features you have the more likely they are to be badly implemented. The PS2 is a mediocre DVD player and a mediocre game system. The N-Gage is an awful game system and an awful phone. Convergence does make sense some times and it can certainly be used effectively in marketing but dedicated devices generally offer the best quality. Not just in regards to game systems.
Convergence has the potential to be 'the next big thing'. Unfortunately, it also has the potential to be 'the next virtual reality'.
Consumer Electronics companies are all about how convergence is inevitable, but they have yet to persuade consumers.
Its all about consumer positioning. I think Sony has it right with PSP. They are pushing it as a games machine, but if you look around, you can find out info on movies/music/photos. They are sold as additional benefits, not core features (at least at the moment). I don't see it as a coincidence that there are no UMD movies out yet (Sony pictures could have done a few for launch easily). They didn't want to confuse consumers.
You have to (currently) have a key feature to hang your marketing on, then drip-feed the other stuff slowly over time. Consumers are slow, and it will take time to adjust to convergent technology. God knows it'll take time for companies to get the User Experience right too. PSPs XMB is a step in the right direction, but its still fairly clunky.
Consumer Electronics companies are all about how convergence is inevitable, but they have yet to persuade consumers.
Its all about consumer positioning. I think Sony has it right with PSP. They are pushing it as a games machine, but if you look around, you can find out info on movies/music/photos. They are sold as additional benefits, not core features (at least at the moment). I don't see it as a coincidence that there are no UMD movies out yet (Sony pictures could have done a few for launch easily). They didn't want to confuse consumers.
You have to (currently) have a key feature to hang your marketing on, then drip-feed the other stuff slowly over time. Consumers are slow, and it will take time to adjust to convergent technology. God knows it'll take time for companies to get the User Experience right too. PSPs XMB is a step in the right direction, but its still fairly clunky.
Arcticfox said:
Yes, I'm holding back on buying a PSP because I feel like I'm wasting movie for it's multimedia capabilities which I already have on my other gadjets.
I mean, my cell phone is something that I'll buy for sure and the future generations already have a lot of multimedia capapbilites.
Well, it's actually nice to see some revolution hype for a change.. since no one has been talking about it at all in the media. The point is pretty lame (since it didn't work for N this generation) though..
It really does feel as if N is holding something back for a surprise this time. With PSP looming.. they need to get their shit in gear. I haven't been paying too much attention to gaming news lately, but is there anything that actually states that the Revolution won't be a 'convergence' machine itself?
It really does feel as if N is holding something back for a surprise this time. With PSP looming.. they need to get their shit in gear. I haven't been paying too much attention to gaming news lately, but is there anything that actually states that the Revolution won't be a 'convergence' machine itself?
Ruud_Luiten
Member
I do think Nintendo is on the right way. Which of the 3 companies is making the most money when you only count te gaming-sector? I do think it's Nintendo.
Everybody can think Nintendo is third or whatever, but they are making money, something Microsoft doesn't and Sony sometimes does.
Everybody can think Nintendo is third or whatever, but they are making money, something Microsoft doesn't and Sony sometimes does.
CrimsonSkies
Member
Why would anyone follow Nintendo's lead when it comes to the home console market? Shedding market share is never a good thing. That will happen in the handheld arenea as well since to be honest. The PSP is a better piece of hardware than either the GBA or DS.
