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[entremet]

Don't mean to single out this post; just all of the posts that casually attribute unverifiable abilities to Bruce as if they're simply a matter of established fact.

There is absolutely no evidence that Bruce Lee was a "quick learner," "really strong" or physically/mentally gifted in any way. The guy was a street brawler and dedicated artist, but about as much as any young fit guy who is really enthusiastic about training in a fighting art. Later on, he was foremost an actor with a nice body, no fight record, no known feats and a carefully crafted image and career in Hollywood. He only did public displays of "fighting prowess" as a way to further build his fame and status as a martial arts legend.

Just to clarify, I don't think he was a bum or a phony. Just that I honestly believe he was only somewhat above-average and would nowadays be a mediocre gatekeeper in the UFC, and only AFTER hypothetically doing multi-discipline training with boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo, etc. At his real-life, peak level: a non-contender. One might say I have no evidence to make such claims, but then neither do the people saying he's an exceptional fighter.



This.

Gene and Norris have actual, respectable accomplishments. Bruce Lee's feats amount to baseless bragging and vague stories with no details. Random tough guy challenged him on the streets and Lee swiftly knocked him out in one punch. So what? All this tells us is that Kimbo Slice could've also built himself up to be a legend during that time period of few cameras, spotty fact checking and unproven rumors.



Anyone could pose this shot. What's the story behind this? My guess -- Bruce exhibiting moves with a fully compliant partner for an observing audience, all carefully planned for the wow factor.

His writings show that he was a deep student of martial arts in general.

 

[iburntmytongue]

I think it would be best to put Bruce Lee on a scale of ability to determine how he'd do in MMA style fighting. You can't compare apples to oranges, but you can highlight the similarities.

Could he beat up an old person? <--------------------------------------> Can he defeat a Ninja?

Bruce Lee has some skill, and I'd be willing to bet if he dedicated his time to it, he could be a pretty good MMA fighter, if not the best. I don't think we should judge his fighting ability, but his strategic ability.

 

[Irobot82]

Damn. He had more muscles in his neck than I currently do in my body. I need to lift.

Low body fat makes your muscles pop like that. That isn't to say he wasn't muscular.

 

[giancarlo123x]

Pre-order the new ufc game and find out!

 

[Keen]

How many of todays top fighters have a base in Jeet Kune Do?

 

[iburntmytongue]

I guess I am saying Bruce Lee is Batman. No one can defeat The Batman.

 

[Jado]

His writings show that he was a deep student of martial arts in general.

Yeah, and that says nothing about Bruce's ability/talent as a fighter. A lot of guys who can't make it past the low/mid level tier in the UFC -- or who outright fail at getting in the door -- are also deeply committed, serious students of martial arts in general. My former teacher is a BJJ brown belt and skilled at boxing and kickboxing. He tried hard but still didn't have what it takes to make it to the pro level.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Bruce Lee wasn't competitive in the MMA of his era.

 

[MjFrancis]

He'd do alright.

 

[Leunam]

Bruce Lee invented Jeet Kune Do specifically to have a martial art based on actual combat and not showmanship. Not sure how he would do against some of today's great fighters, but he definitely knew how to fight in real-life situations.

Honest question, is there much grappling in Jeet Kune Do? Because that makes a difference when it comes to fighting in real-life situations.

 

[Parch]

What exactly were Bruce Lee's fighting accomplishments beyond street fight stories? Black belts in what? Competition victories where?

While some actors do have actual black belts, even that really doesn't mean much. It doesn't make them top contenders.

Guys like Chuck Norris had the resume as a fighter. He was the friggin' world champ in his discipline. I'd believe he could have made an impact in MMA, while some unproven actor with a rep would go nowhere.

Until there are actual accomplishments, it's all just talk.

 

[Dubbmobile]

Because he has no background in actual fighting. People use physical feats that he was capable of as evidence but those really don't have much to do with a real fight. The only encounter with someone "legit" that I'm aware of was with Gene LeBell who pretty much embarassed him, put him over his shoulder and ran about laughing while Lee screamed helplessly to be put down.

A whole bunch of martial arts were shown to be ineffective on their own in the early UFCs. Particularly those that don't use grappling at all. Being able to do a one inch punch isn't going to mean a whole lot when someone double legs you.

Was this LeBell incident something that took place in a sparring match though or something that took place as joking among friends? It seems from the article that you linked that it was all in good fun (even if it was at Bruce's expense) and if that's the case how is that reference in Bruce's fighting ability? (No disrespect intended) I also find it interesting that LeBell specifically states in that article that Lee was way into learning grappling. Was never aware of that.

 

[ArjanN]

Combat sports aren't real fights?

And everything being legal in a 'real fight' only makes it harder to speculate how Lee would have performed.

Well...no.

They are sports with rules. You could argue MMA is closer to a real fight than say, boxing, but even MMA still has tons of rules and restrictions.

 

[Parch]

How many of todays top fighters have a base in Jeet Kune Do?

That was the flaw with early MMA. The specialists in each discipline came together and a lot of the victories were dependent on the matchups. They had specific skills, but not fully developed for MMA.

The second generation of MMA fighters were much more rounded. They learned and trained to fight MMA, not just adapt their speciality to the game.

In a relatively short time the sport has evolved a lot. Having a base in any black belt discipline doesn't mean much anymore compared to the fighters who grew up training to specifically fight MMA.

 

[Shadybiz]

I'm not sure why people are bringing LeBell into this. If that story did actually happen, that's fine (and kinda funny), but LeBell would also have had probably 50 lbs or more on Lee. OP asked specifically about fighting within his weight class.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Assuming Bruce Lee has a physique upgraded to 2014 physiques thanks to 2014 training techniques and technologies?

Sure, why not.

Why would we snatch someone out of an era with weaker technology and pit them against those with superior tech? That has to be part of any sort of conversation.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Well...no.

They are sports with rules. You could argue MMA is closer to a real fight than say, boxing, but even MMA still has tons of rules and restrictions.

And yet the lowest end UFC fighter would destroy any amateur in a real fight.

Bruce Lee wasn't a competitive fighter in his day. Short of landing a very lucky strike to someone (and we don't know if he had knockout power outside of his film career), he wouldn't last a round in today's MMA world.

 

[Leunam]

Well...no.

They are sports with rules. You could argue MMA is closer to a real fight than say, boxing, but even MMA still has tons of rules and restrictions.

Yeah, you're right. MMA, Boxing, and every combat sport in between has rules and restriction that bring them into sport territory, but they are still combat. I think saying that they aren't 'real fights' undermines them a bit.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Yeah, you're right. MMA, Boxing, and every combat sport in between has rules and restriction that bring them into sport territory, but they are still combat. I think saying that they aren't 'real fights' undermines them a bit.

Particularly when the MMA ruleset is designed to make the fighters do less damage to one another and therefore limit injuries.

Every accomplished MMA athlete is a very good fighter who would win real fights. Bruce Lee is an unknown in that department.

 

[Jest Chillin]

What exactly were Bruce Lee's fighting accomplishments beyond street fight stories? Black belts in what? Competition victories where?

While some actors do have actual black belts, even that really doesn't mean much. It doesn't make them top contenders.

Guys like Chuck Norris had the resume as a fighter. He was the friggin' world champ in his discipline. I'd believe he could have made an impact in MMA, while some unproven actor with a rep would go nowhere.

Until there are actual accomplishments, it's all just talk.

Chuck himself has said that he occasionally sparred with Bruce, recognizes Bruce as a "martial arts master" and speculates that Lee "pound for pound, might well have been one of the strongest men in the world, and certainly one of the quickest."

The thing to take away from the stories about Bruce isn't the extravagance of some of the claims but that the man did know, train, and spar with those who do have credentials in one way or another and not a single one of them doubt his level of skill or physical prowess.

None of that equates to him automatically being great at MMA had he been able to try his hand at it... but to go the opposite way and make claims that he was just a Hollywood star or that he'd never had any fight experience is being excessive.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Anyone could pose this shot. What's the story behind this? My guess -- Bruce exhibiting moves with a fully compliant partner for an observing audience, all carefully planned for the wow factor.

It's a movie, but to think that someone who trained in the martial arts and taught others martial arts for years, created a new martial arts discipline that brought together the best aspects of all martial arts to create a style with no style, then later abandoning his own creation because it became the very thing he tried to get away from...

...You think this type of martial artist wouldn't learn or have a ground game?

Seriously people thinking the most meticulous martial artist who broke away from the traditional teachings of the art wouldn't have a ground game when you can simply google Jeet Kun do and find that it in fact incorporated ground techniques is baffling to me.

And if he were alive today his ground game would have only gotten more refined like everything else he did.

 

[Jest Chillin]

And yet the lowest end UFC fighter would destroy any amateur in a real fight.

Bruce Lee wasn't a competitive fighter in his day. Short of landing a very lucky strike to someone (and we don't know if he had knockout power outside of his film career), he wouldn't last a round in today's MMA world.

Eh.. "real fight" is too unpredictable to make such a claim. Weapons, multiple attackers, attacks to areas that would be considered to be illegal in an MMA fight could all lead to an MMA trained fighter losing in a "real fight."

They're trained to use and defend techniques that they can use in the sport so they won't necessarily have the awareness to know that some techniques leave them open to attacks to vital areas.

 

[MrCunningham]

Chuck himself has said that he occasionally sparred with Bruce, recognizes Bruce as a "martial arts master" and speculates that Lee "pound for pound, might well have been one of the strongest men in the world, and certainly one of the quickest."

I know this is just a movie, but it's still one of the most awesome things ever committed to film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isnu0wtZHGc

But I don't think that 1970's Bruce Lee would compete very well in the MMA, but 1970's Bruce Lee with modern training and study of modern fighting style would probably do very well.

Bruce Lee wasn't competitive in the MMA of his era.

Didn't he participate in a lot of illegal street fighting competitions though?

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Chuck himself has said that he occasionally sparred with Bruce, recognizes Bruce as a "martial arts master" and speculates that Lee "pound for pound, might well have been one of the strongest men in the world, and certainly one of the quickest."

The thing to take away from the stories about Bruce isn't the extravagance of some of the claims but that the man did know, train, and spar with those who do have credentials in one way or another and not a single one of them doubt his level of skill or physical prowess.

None of that equates to him automatically being great at MMA had he been able to try his hand at it... but to go the opposite way and make claims that he was just a Hollywood star or that he'd never had any fight experience is being excessive.

I'm sure all the nice things people had to say about him had absolutely nothing to do with their desire to work with him... or simply not badmouth someone who was popular or dead. /s

Honestly the amount of hero worship in this thread is silly. Most likely a lot of people would be very disappointed if they ever saw him in an MMA fight. A man rarely lives up to the legend.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Didn't he participate in a lot of illegal street fighting competitions though?

Bruce didn't compete at all. He was in street fights in his youth and one fight with a Grandmaster in SF (of which there are different accounts, one of which is that Bruce won soundly, the other that the fight lasted extremely long and ended in a tie). But no actual competitions at all. I don't even think there ARE illegal street fighting competitions.

Sounds like maybe you're thinking of Frank Dux imaginary tournament from Bloodsport?

I'm sure all the nice things people had to say about him had absolutely nothing to do with their desire to work with him... or simply not badmouth someone who was popular or dead. /s

Honestly the amount of hero worship in this thread is silly. Most likely a lot of people would be very disappointed if they ever saw him in an MMA fight. A man rarely lives up to the legend.

You do understand that Bruce didn't actually get any real fame in the US until Enter the Dragon right.. which released in theaters 6 days after he died. Before that he was only publicly famous in China. He knew as many stars and famous Hollywood types as he did because, like Gene Lebell, he did work as a fight choreographer for Hollywood. His friendships with famous athletes and stars were legitimate friendships where he was the unknown. Not the other way around.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Eh.. "real fight" is too unpredictable to make such a claim. Weapons, multiple attackers, attacks to areas that would be considered to be illegal in an MMA fight could all lead to an MMA trained fighter losing in a "real fight."

They're trained to use and defend techniques that they can use in the sport so they won't necessarily have the awareness to know that some techniques leave them open to attacks to vital areas.

That argument becomes ridiculous when you consider the average person doesn't even know how to throw a proper punch.

 

[triplestation]

bruce lee had like 4% body fat right

hed be annihilated in a fight

 

[NH Apache]

I know this is just a movie, but it's still one of the most awesome things ever committed to film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isnu0wtZHGc

But I don't think that 1970's Bruce Lee would compete very well in the MMA, but 1970's Bruce Lee with modern training and study of modern fighting style would probably do very well.



Didn't he participate in a lot of illegal street fighting competitions though?

It's funny how we are sitting here talking about Bruce Lee doesn't do MMA when that clip looks a bit like modern MMA with Lee throwing lots of leg kicks and finishing with a choke.

 

[charsace]

Some of you are delusional. If a BJJ guy has control of you you're not going to be able to grab his balls or go for his eyes if that's what you're thinking. And in regards to strikers you have to get close to do the outside the rule things that people like to bring up and in that case you are gonna get hit. Good luck standing up to a leg kick or body kick from a kickboxer in a street fight or good jab from someone that can box.

Everyone likes to think they're smarter than the rest and can just go for the balls or eyes. That she flies out the window when someone that can hit hits you with a trained jab that can freeze even the best train fighter and then follows up with a right hand that can possibly put you in hospital or if your luck is really bad in the ground.

Eh.. "real fight" is too unpredictable to make such a claim. Weapons, multiple attackers, attacks to areas that would be considered to be illegal in an MMA fight could all lead to an MMA trained fighter losing in a "real fight."

They're trained to use and defend techniques that they can use in the sport so they won't necessarily have the awareness to know that some techniques leave them open to attacks to vital areas.

Weapons aren't a factor in most fights and unless the multiple attackers have had some training to know what they are getting into a pro will run through them.

 

[Abounder]

If he trained with the 5'7" 154lbs Yuki Nakai and played in a dirtier MMA, yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yko1xLF7AQU#t=13

He might end up being blind in one eye, but goddamn!!! at taking down opponents who have 100lbs weight advantage

 

[RedHotChimiChanga]

Wing Chun will destroy every other martial arts. It is magic.

 

[rvy]

i request that someone poses this question to the great Dana White. His expertise is needed for a correct answer.

 

[Jest Chillin]

That argument becomes ridiculous when you consider the average person doesn't even know how to throw a proper punch.

The average person doesn't get into street fights and someone who does fight often would probably know how to throw a punch.

Some of you are delusional. If a BJJ guy has control of you you're not going to be able to grab his balls or go for his eyes if that's what you're thinking. And in regards to strikers you have to get close to do the outside the rule things that people like to bring up and in that case you are gonna get hit. Good luck standing up to a leg kick or body kick from a kickboxer in a street fight or good jab from someone that can box.

Everyone likes to think they're smarter than the rest and can just go for the balls or eyes. That she flies out the window when someone that can hit hits you with a trained jab that can freeze even the best train fighter and then follows up with a right hand that can possibly put you in hospital or if your luck is really bad in the ground.


Weapons aren't a factor in most fights and unless the multiple attackers have had some training to know what they are getting into a pro will run through them.

So we're going to ignore the Maiquel Falcao situation? I don't want to link the video because what happened is horrible but street fights aren't measured or fair. People will do anything. And while training how to fight gives a person better odds, it's not a guarantee of anything.

 

[Esch]

Sure, if he spent a couple years training for the MMA ruleset. He looks athletic to me and trained hard.

 

[Parch]

That argument becomes ridiculous when you consider the average person doesn't even know how to throw a proper punch.

Even when they do it doesn't compare to trained MMA fighters.

All of these boxers who run their mouth wanting a UFC fight have proven over and over that it's a waste of time. Dana has caved in a few times because of the hype it generates, but in the ring it's a joke. They're fantastic strikers, best in the world, but MMA fighters don't have to stand there and take it. Professional boxers get slaughtered in a MMA ring.

If you want to be successful in MMA you have to train and be experienced for MMA. Street fighters, black belts, and even pro boxers can't compete until they get extensive experience in MMA.

 

[Hex]

Bruce Lee would have evolved even further, he was constantly evolving so the question in the op is moot.
The whole point of Wing chun do and then Jeet Kun Do was evolution of fighting styles

 

[cluxdeluxe]

Even when they do it doesn't compare to trained MMA fighters.

All of these boxers who run their mouth wanting a UFC fight have proven over and over that it's a waste of time. Dana has caved in a few times because of the hype it generates, but in the ring it's a joke. They're fantastic strikers, best in the world, but MMA fighters don't have to stand there and take it. Professional boxers get slaughtered in a MMA ring.

If you want to be successful in MMA you have to train and be experienced for MMA. Street fighters, black belts, and even pro boxers can't compete until they get extensive experience in MMA.

MMA fighters also get slaughtered in the boxing ring. They are 2 different sports. I have been to amateur boxing matches where mma fighters come in thinking they will win because they fought mma, but end up losing. MMA fighters are brawlers and rarely throw a straight punch.

 

[ghostface pizzakid]

What exactly were Bruce Lee's fighting accomplishments beyond street fight stories? Black belts in what? Competition victories where?

While some actors do have actual black belts, even that really doesn't mean much. It doesn't make them top contenders.

Guys like Chuck Norris had the resume as a fighter. He was the friggin' world champ in his discipline. I'd believe he could have made an impact in MMA, while some unproven actor with a rep would go nowhere.

Until there are actual accomplishments, it's all just talk.

You mean if there are no real life necromancers, it's all talk.

 

[coffeehofi]

Why it should be Bruce Lee? Someone who already deceased.
How about that guy who played Mad Dog from Raid? I think he could beat many big guys. And from what I read, he also teach Indonesian Special Forces silat.
So I'm really sure he's a real life fighter.

 

[galvatron]

What exactly were Bruce Lee's fighting accomplishments beyond street fight stories? Black belts in what? Competition victories where?

While some actors do have actual black belts, even that really doesn't mean much. It doesn't make them top contenders.

Guys like Chuck Norris had the resume as a fighter. He was the friggin' world champ in his discipline. I'd believe he could have made an impact in MMA, while some unproven actor with a rep would go nowhere.

Until there are actual accomplishments, it's all just talk.

Chuck Norris had a pretty high opinion of Bruce Lee. They trained together on occasion and Chuck was impressed with his pound-for-pound strength. He seemed humble enough to actually learn what works and adopt it, so I'd say depending on the era, he might have been a top dog at 135-155...

Still, as someone said earlier, the same could be said for any great athlete.

I think time-travelling George Foreman is likely to beat any one in a combat sport. That chin, those huge hands...he started boxing only as an adult, if I'm remembering right.

 

[charsace]

The average person doesn't get into street fights and someone who does fight often would probably know how to throw a punch.



So we're going to ignore the Maiquel Falcao situation? I don't want to link the video because what happened is horrible but street fights aren't measured or fair. People will do anything. And while training how to fight gives a person better odds, it's not a guarantee of anything.

That's a case of two drunk guys fighting a bunch of guys with weapons. Even then they were fending the guys off for a good minute.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Even though Bruce Lee was an actor he was also a martial artist who trained his body to be the perfect weapon for REAL fights with no rules. Not for sport.

He HAD a ground game and if he was alive today he would have evolved his own moves with the new techniques learned today.

He was doing MMA before there was an MMA, and if it was a real fight he would beat the shit out of everyone because in a real fight everything is legal.

But Bruce competing in MMA the sport, that gets a little tricky to speculate on, because you have weight classes, illegal moves, etc.

We aren't talking about Bruce the actor here. Bruce was constantly learning. To think he would suddenly stop shows how little you know of Bruce the martial artist.

Is that supposed to be something? There is no way he has leverage in that position to break or injure someone.

Also, MMA was around way before Bruce Lee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vale_Tudo

 

[triplestation]

If he trained with the 5'7" 154lbs Yuki Nakai and played in a dirtier MMA, yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yko1xLF7AQU#t=13

He might end up being blind in one eye, but goddamn!!! at taking down opponents who have 100lbs weight advantage

wow that shit looks rigged

the tall guy totally beat him to a pulp and it looked like he even felt sorry for him, and then he pretty much let him do that flimsy leg take-down and voluntarily tapped out

 

[DouglasteR]

He'd do alright.

 

[TheKaeptain]

wow that shit looks rigged

the tall guy totally beat him to a pulp and it looked like he even felt sorry for him, and then he pretty much let him do that flimsy leg take-down and voluntarily tapped out

lol that isn't a takedown. It's a sub that fucking hurts and can ruin your leg.

http://youtu.be/hYcEU3mXwv0?t=12m14s

 

[Sheroking]

Bruce Lee was too smart, too physically gifted, too good at innovating martial arts with actual defense fuctions to not be a gifted MMA fighter if he trained for MMA.

 

[triplestation]

lol that isn't a takedown. It's a sub that fucking hurts and can ruin your leg.

http://youtu.be/hYcEU3mXwv0?t=12m14s

whatever it is i think it was handed to him because big guy was in total control, somethings definitely fishy here imo

i bet during break someone told him "hey man dont do this dont embarass him like this just let him have it and therell be a little something extra for you" or something gambling related in there

 

[Jest Chillin]

That's a case of two drunk guys fighting a bunch of guys with weapons. Even then they were fending the guys off for a good minute.

This just reinforces my point that a street fight has too many variables to simply say an MMA fighter will always win a street fight. A better chance to win, sure. Guaranteed, not so much.

 

[Tenks]

I think it would be impossible to tell. Just because he had a great grasp of one aspect of martial arts doesn't mean he could master all of them. Sure with enough training time he could become more than competent but it is impossible to tell if he'd be able to increase his skills to the point required to fight professionals.

 

[TheKaeptain]

whatever it is i think it was handed to him because big guy was in total control, somethings definitely fishy here imo

i bet during break someone told him "hey man dont do this dont embarass him like this just let him have it and therell be a little something extra for you" or something gambling related in there

Did you watch the link I sent you? Brock was in control and lost the same way. He was beat Mir's ass.