Tragicomedy
Member
Yes, you're right. Many people with weapons will probably beat guys who are intoxicated.
Back on topic, a trained MMA fighter will destroy an average Joe in a street fight.
Could Bruce Lee be competitive in today's MMA?
- Thread starter entremet
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Yes, you're right. Many people with weapons will probably beat guys who are intoxicated.
Back on topic, a trained MMA fighter will destroy an average Joe in a street fight.
Bas sums it up pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZBSBab-Es
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZBSBab-Es
It is difficult for people inexperienced in grappling to understand what a correctly applied submission feels like. When your knee suddenly feels like it's going to explode from the inside, the fear is incredible and you will tap that quickly.
triplestation
Member
i saw it but they were more on par in size
Different Era, hard to theorize properly. On one hand he would get taken down and submitted. On the other he was SO fast and (and ungodly strong for his body size) that chances are he would KO every mother fucker in a matter of seconds.
It's like asking if The Champ Mike Tyson in his prime would do if her go into MMA. Dude was a bad ass(still is) and was one of the most feared fighters around, but it is a totally different style of fighting and training
It's like asking if The Champ Mike Tyson in his prime would do if her go into MMA. Dude was a bad ass(still is) and was one of the most feared fighters around, but it is a totally different style of fighting and training
TheKaeptain
Banned
Bruce had sloppy striking though. No weight behind them and just arm punches.
I think any decent MMA fighter will always win a street fight when you don't have variables like being really drunk or getting jumped by a group of guys who are also using weapons. Bringing up the Maiquel example was cherry-picking a worst case scenario to reinforce your point and in turn not really proving anything.
Here's a better one: UFC mixed martial artist turns tables on robber who gets beat up, shot in leg with own gun
More extreme but still applicable: Joseph Torrez, MMA Fighter, Fends Off 4 Attackers, Killing 1 During Home Invasion: Police
Going back to your original post that started this line of argument:
I think it's pointless to say MMA isn't "real fighting" because [multiple assailants/weapons/whatever]. Stacking the odds against someone as proof that he isn't a real fighter or can't win a real fight is bullshit. If it helps, limit it to a traditional fight (two individuals, no weapons/objects) and it's perfectly acceptable to say the MMA fighter will nearly always win.
More empty, false and unsubstantiated claims. Man, it must be fantastic to be dead for so long and still have so many convinced that you were an ungodly talent. I don't even have this mentality about the proven top fighters in the UFC and MMA.
With clothes on, he looks like some skinny dude having a temper tantrum.
yes
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Because people are paid to win, not to put on a good show. There are some KO bonuses and Fight of the Night bonuses now, but the primary purse is still achieved through winning.
I'd certainly hope so. Otherwise they'd suck pretty bad at their jobs, wouldn't they? I mean, would you really want to base a career around doing something that anyone could come do better than you if they just walked in off the street?
This thread isn't really about street fights, though. I mean, by that logic, I could claim that I could beat up Jon Jones because I'd bring an axe and a shotgun to the Octagon. We're talking Bruce Lee doing MMA, not Bruce Lee Takes Compton.
Lambda Pie
Banned
Vio, do you reckon Ronda Rousey, who weights about the same Bruce weighted, would sub him within 2 minutes?
Thug Waffle
Member
The real question is: Could jeet kune do be effective in the MMA if the practitioner was also a skilled grappler?
entremet
Member
I would agree with you, but I feel you're going too off the far end of the argument. I don't think he would be competitive with the best, but I would think he would hold his own in some matches.
False? By all means, educate us.
Bruce Lee invented a martial art style that's still part of some MMA fighters' background. He taught people martial arts who now train MMA fighters. He WAS ungodly fast, ungodly fit and his entire teaching principle was around what's functional. "Absorb was useful, discard what's useless". I'm not saying what he was could have stepped into the ring, I'm saying he would learn.
Some of UFC's biggest and most successful fighters of all time were bouncers, bodyguards and football players with little to no MMA training before their mid-20's. I don't think the bar is as high as some MMA fans want people to think it is.
It's speculation. I don't think it's empty or baseless.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I'd take the under.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
How long does he hold his arm out?
Jest Chillin
Member
Actually I used Maiquel because it was the first example I thought of due to his being a Bellator fighter and the tragic end result. The other example I thought of was the claims of Roger Huerta knocking out a former UT Linebacker in the street after a club let out but there were reports that wasn't Huerta at all but just some random dude.
Most of the news reports on these kinds of things feature small time, local fighters getting into altercations. The post I was responding to specifically mentioned a low tier UFC fighter vs an Amateur in a real fight. And as your articles show, one mentions the would-be victim is a UFC fighter that declined to be named (which honestly doesn't make a ton of sense but certainly generates views) and the other is a small time guy who was outnumbered but used a weapon himself.
This was never my stance nor did I ever insinuate that it was. That was the entire point to my using quotation marks around the words real fight. Because the interpretation of the words isn't literally how real the fight is but that it's a no rules, no protection, anything can happen situation.
My entire point has always been that "real" or rather, street fights are random. They have tons of variables that can not be accounted for. The moment you start qualifying by placing restrictions "Ok.. it's a street fight but no weapons, one on one, no sucker punches..." then you're setting up rules making it similar to a competition fight. The most dangerous thing about street fights isn't typically your opponents skill, it's the unknown variables. When you're just walking around doing whatever it is your doing and someone else decides, for whatever reason, that they want to fight you there's nothing stopping them from going to whatever lengths they want to win. And since there's more on the line in a street fight than pride, most people will try to increase the odds in their own favor however they can.
You're right. This was part of a separate conversation that stemmed from the original topic.
Right? Its as if the man just thaws out from cryosleep. Eats some food. Is told hes about to get thrown into a ring with fighters of multiple talent's from around the world, gets some water, and then is thrown directly into a 100,000 audience stadium ring with laser light shows, confetti, music(Probably, Pitbull), dancing women, brodudes, RedBull insiginas's everywhere, told the rules of the fight, and off he goes. That only works for 90's smash em up- videogame stories.
If he got to train, he'd be a pretty good athlete for whatever weight class he chose to be in. You can't just pretend hes just a fighter, and is stuck in a single mindset when it comes to some sort of competition. Come on folks. He was insanely disciplined, and hella fast, and seemingly pretty strong. What magical powers do MMA fighters have outside of defenses, submissions, offensive, blocking, etc. The power of the cloud?
I love Bruce Lee movies too. Grew up with them. But I can't convince myself that he was anything more than a very fit actor when there are no real fighting accomplishments.
But that's the fight game where talk is cheap. It's like guys including worthless club fights and street fights as part of their win/loss hype. Faux rep is nothing but talk, and there are a whole bunch of "champs" with self/fan hype that are real good at the unsubstantiated talk.
Show me the receipts. There needs to be legit, recognized accomplishments. It's just another bunch of completely meaningless hype until proven otherwise.
Breaks that arm frank Mir style.
I'm sorry i would like to contribute to this thread seriously, but it seems to have taken a silly my dad could beat your dad in a fight, no he couldn't my dads like bigger than yours.
Replace one dad with "Bruce Lee", replace other Dad with "Other person"
Playground type talk, there are of course some people thinking right, and i'll leave it to them, because i'm no expert.
Replace one dad with "Bruce Lee", replace other Dad with "Other person"
Playground type talk, there are of course some people thinking right, and i'll leave it to them, because i'm no expert.
A better question might be: Could Benny Urquidez be competitive in today's MMA?
People dig his roles in Jackie Chan movies and he's got actual competitive experience. But not in MMA I think.
Lonewolf_92
Member
LeBell also claimed (In his 2005 biography) that deceased boxer, Milo Savage, had put brass knuckles on under his gloves and greased himself in Vaseline for their 1963 Boxer vs. Judoka fight (The fight lasted four rounds with LeBell failing to takedown Savage on many attempts, only succeeding once the boxer was tired. Savage was also wearing a gi as compensation to LeBell's side for being allowed to wear a pair of speed bag gloves). I'd take anything claimed by Gene LeBell with a salt block, especially when the other person is dead and can't defend themselves.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Like who? And don't go back to the tough man days of the old UFC are you talking about the modern era of mma? Because nearly every great or significant fighter has a background that includes being a highly decorated high school, college and/or Olympic wrestler. Other than that you have the guys from Brazil who have been doing bjj since they could walk or guys that have been practicing things like Muay Thai since their youth. The reason for this is that a wrestling/grappling base has proven to be , for better or worse, the most effective form of mma. There is no reason to believe that Bruce Lee wouldn't just be neutralized or LNP'd by any number off great wrestlers out there, the way they do to great strikers all the time. And I guess you can say "but let Bruce train for TDD or BJJ" but you can afford that same benefit to any number of great athletes. What if Floyd Mayweathet trained in mma? How about Roy Jones Jr? Bo Jackson? LeBron James? At some point it becomes "what if Bruce Lee are a completely different person would he be great at mma?"
entremet
Member
Well in this situation it would be Bruce in his prime.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I don't know man, he'd be 74 if he was alive today. Bit old, perhaps?
entremet
Member
Well he was pretty big a popularizing martial arts in the US. My stepfather, who was more of a hobbyists in martial arts, had posters of him all over.
BadAss2961
Member
Throw prime Bruce into the cage with no MMA experience or idea of how the rules work or anything, and he probably doesn't do too well. Put mostly any of those guys around his size in a street fight with him, and I bet it's another story.
There's no reason to believe he couldn't be a top fighter in the sport with experience.
There's no reason to believe he couldn't be a top fighter in the sport with experience.
Lambda Pie
Banned
no need. O-goshi straight into juji-gatame.
What is about whenever Lee is brought up? Just because he was an actor/famous doesn't mean he is overrated. He was one of the hardest working most passionate martial artists to ever live. It was his life's obsession. He was trained by Ip Man for cripes sake. He had a habit of excelling at whatever he put his mind to so, yeah, if he wanted to be he would be good at MMA.
Heel's post is excellent for you. He almost got me.
See, this right here. What are you basing any of this on? Some of us are starting from a mindset that says he wasn't a trained fighter at all, and if he was there's no reason to think he was an especially good one seeing as there's absolutely no evidence of it. If he trained BJJ for a year, he would be nothing more than an unproven martial artist who trained BJJ for a year-- and it would show once he stepped into the ring and got absolutely wrecked by anyone with blue or purple belt. The top MMA guys didn't come off the streets and transition on a whim; they've been doing their thing for years while Bruce was never competitive and therefore can't compare. It's like Ninja Scooter said, you have to make him into someone he completely wasn't in order to make him a contender.
Please explain this with concrete facts. No empty words about his inexplicable will or dedication.
He really did.
Here are the facts about his physical development:
Those athletic performance numbers are largely a joke. Bottom line is, Bruce Lee as he was would most likely lose a fight handily to fucking John Carmack, who I can affectionately proclaim as the nerdiest dude in the entire world, never mind a pro MMA fighter with 99th percentile athletic development, many years of modern BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, and wrestling training, and real fight experience.
Those athletic performance numbers are largely a joke. Bottom line is, Bruce Lee as he was would most likely lose a fight handily to fucking John Carmack, who I can affectionately proclaim as the nerdiest dude in the entire world, never mind a pro MMA fighter with 99th percentile athletic development, many years of modern BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, and wrestling training, and real fight experience.
I made pretty much the same exact thread a couple of years ago, if you're interested.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418995
I think he'd have the potential to be great.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418995
I think he'd have the potential to be great.
Holy crap this post.
entremet
Member
Jado will probably die at reading that thread lol. Way more hyperbole than anything here lol.
Like I said, I'm more middle of the road about Bruce Lee.
@Evilore, where did you get those stats from? That's pretty interesting and changes my opinion drastically.
BadAss2961
Member
Why? it sounds like someone just recorded a casual day at the gym.
Not that running and lifting stats mean anything for fighters anyway. That would make NFL players the best fighters in the world.
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