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Creationism support is at a new low. The reason should give us hope.
- Thread starter norm9
- Start date
This is still way too high, this is from 2005 and is still basically right:
Just once I'd like a graph where we don't get the shit kicked out of us by Denmark.
And no police shootings don't count.
Ok. But your problem with believing that god guided evolution or caused the big bang or whatever is...?
Because I'm an agnostic atheist and I'm racking my brain pretty hard to come up with a reason (again, assuming there's no "god of the gaps" stuff).
.....you believe that God created the Earth billions of years ago?
As pointed out, this chart ignores the rest of North America, so we shouldn't take it too seriously. My chart on the previous page also comes from that data. To be fair, the authors intent was to compare the US to Europe and Japan, not as a complete comparison with everyone. (One author, Eugenie Scott, is famously a plaintiff in Kitzmiller vs. Dover, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District, the case that first tried intelligent design in public schools).This is still way too high, this is from 2005 and is still basically right:
buttery fistful
Member
there is no way a serious person can rationalize the christian god of the bible causing evolution when you know how ridiculously harsh and brutal early human life was before civilization. an all-loving god sitting around for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, of years while humans had a 40 year life span due to natural disasters, animals or countless health problems? sorry but no.
So...
38% believe in creationism.
38% believe in (i guess) "intelligent design".
19% believe in standard evolution.
The 38% intelligent designers + the 19% that straight up believe in evolution is still only 57%
In 2017 not even two thirds of Americans believe in some form of evolution. And just a few short years ago creationism was the clear winner among all 3 choices.
Knowing those numbers would've broken my science loving, 7th grade mind.
Today as an adult now I'm just sad.
38% believing in creationism is a LOT.
All Possible Ways
Member
I see. I actually looked for it because I was curious about Europe.
Love your name btw haha
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
So here's one thing I'll say about "god and evolution are not mutually exclusive/incompatible."
We're referring to the gods of human religions; the only reason they exist in our reality is because of the mythology of early civilizations introduced them. They were born out of the primal desire of early people to understand the world, see their oppressors punished and live for eternity. They didn't come to us through some existential realization. Right? They were passed (and forced) down through cultures over thousands of years. Brainwashing isn't an unfair characterization either.
So I just find it strange to talk about "god" compared to evolution so matter-of-fact. Had it somehow not been for those early cultures, we may not even consider the existence of a god. Uh, well, except for the Mormon god and Xenu
We're referring to the gods of human religions; the only reason they exist in our reality is because of the mythology of early civilizations introduced them. They were born out of the primal desire of early people to understand the world, see their oppressors punished and live for eternity. They didn't come to us through some existential realization. Right? They were passed (and forced) down through cultures over thousands of years. Brainwashing isn't an unfair characterization either.
So I just find it strange to talk about "god" compared to evolution so matter-of-fact. Had it somehow not been for those early cultures, we may not even consider the existence of a god. Uh, well, except for the Mormon god and Xenu
He was just waiting to send his son down here and get beaten and killed to forgive all that. Magical circle of life.
I love yours, lol.
Now kiss!
Dash_Riprock
Member
Baby steps is better than backward steps, I guess...
wasn't lifespan longer pre civilisation? ill have to look it up but i recall reading that civilisation helped in the spread of disease and made populations more vulnerable to drought and flood etc.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
No. The comparison does have to take into account much higher infant mortality rates but life expectancy was absolutely shorter.
clarknova156
Member
Good. The lower the better. Creationism is a blight on our civilization.
JigglesBunny
Banned
Well, I believe in God and evolution. Admittedly, my belief in God is more from a moral perspective that I was raised in and my belief in evolution stems from undeniable scientific evidence on the matter. I have both because I simply refuse to reject the belief system I was raised on, though I also refuse to ignore basic scientific fact.
I choose to believe in both, my beliefs don't hurt anyone and I surely don't reject fact when presented with it, nor do I force my belief system on anyone else. You can have both beliefs, no harm to it.
I choose to believe in both, my beliefs don't hurt anyone and I surely don't reject fact when presented with it, nor do I force my belief system on anyone else. You can have both beliefs, no harm to it.
WTF...only 19% believe in evolution only...and it's taken 30 years for it to go up 10%.
"Both" doesn't make any sense if you take five minutes to think about it. But at least this way you can have your cake and eat it too.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
My "problem" with it (I put it in quotes because it doesn't bother me on a day-to-day basis) is that it's simply made up.
I could just as easily say that some other magical being caused the Big Bang. Does that mean it's a legitimate alternative? This goes back to my previous post about how we only consider god causing evolution plausible because god has was introduced a long time ago and because it has existed for so long we consider it as a plausible option. It's like, "well god has been around for so long so why couldn't he be the reason?" To me that's intellectually dishonest and touches on several logical fallacies. What I'm saying is it's no more plausible than saying than a flying space unicorn farting caused the Big Bang. That idea hasn't been around for a long time but what makes it any less plausible? There's as little evidence for the god of Abraham starting evolution as the space unicorn fart starting it. I hate to be crude but I dont think my logic is flawed.
People arguing for or against a young earth is a very ancient argument, I was surprised to find it brought up in around the 2nd century from writings. Actually a lot of modern philosophies are just old with a different spin. Nothing at all advanced about this whole show from what I've seen.
Just curious, why?
JigglesBunny
Banned
My belief is that God incited evolution. Could you find logical fallacies in that belief upon reflection? Sure, but it's easy to poke a hole in anything if you really try.
My point is that while my belief system may not make sense to many, it's fine for me and gives me comfort from a "spiritual" perspective and allows me to remain objective and reasonable when presented with scientific fact. Doesn't have to make sense to other people, it's my belief. At the end of the day, my beliefs are mine alone and at no point should anyone try to sway them - just like I would never try to sway someone else's. We can all have our own beliefs, people can even believe in full-fat creationism if it helps them sleep at night. A person's beliefs should never influence the way in which you view them, nor should it influence the way in which they act.
Comfort namely. When things are tough in my life, it's comforting to believe that a moment of silence and reflection can help me get through it. As someone who struggled/struggles with anxiety and depression, it's nice to have an outlet to seek comfort in. I choose to continue believing in God and a higher power solely because it makes me happy and brings me comfort. Nothing wrong with that from my perspective.
Astral Dog
Member
In Heaven of course 👼
So you believe in evolution and Adam and Eve?
Noah was like fuck y'all, too big.
WaterAstro
Member
Well, since most religions in America are literally scams, obviously the opinion would be low.
Fast Forward
Member
Surprised it's not higher with pseudoscience being on the rise in recent years, but that being said, 38 percent is still much higher than it should be.
JigglesBunny
Banned
Adam and Eve, no. The Bible, at least to me, is a collection of tales containing broad moral lessons, not exactly recountments of real events word for word, play by play. More just broad strokes distilled into narratives that are digestible and offer morals and methods in which to follow the faith.
That said, I don't adhere to the rules of the faith strictly. I certainly didn't wait until marriage to lose my virginity - I'm engaged now but had three previous partners with whom I was physically intimate with and am actively sexual with my fiancé who is also of faith. Plus, I am a major supporter of LGBTQ+ communities. Despite that, I carry and honor the morals of "do onto others as you would have them do onto you" and "do not bare false witness."
Astral Dog
Member
the problem is that unfounded beliefs creates toxic ideas about the world and its people in it, its not only the single unit who thinks that way, but his/her family too, the church, schools, the whole community they have to be part of a system, wich in many cases relies on belief, fear and ignorance to work.and its capable of causing real harm to anyone, psychological or others.
Of course this doesn't apply to you because you use your faith positively and are open minded but its something i keep in mind as important.
Hydrophobic
Member
Are you under some misconception that all christians think God created the earth 6,000 years ago?
6000 years ago, God created a billion year old universe. Like starting a video with the playback towards the second half.
Checkmate.
Username1198
Member
"Why we still got monkeys?????"
Checkmate weirdos
Checkmate weirdos
JigglesBunny
Banned
I just know personally that when it comes time to have children of my own, they won't explicitly be raised through my faith persay. While baptism is something I'm definitely interested in having performed, my children will be raised solely on the basis that good morals are good morals and that their personal beliefs, religious or moral, should be used only in a positive way and expressed on a personal level. If my children see it fit to explore different religions and cultures, that will be perfectly fine by me so long as those beliefs don't fester into toxic morals or behaviors.
My children will be exposed to what my personal faith is, that's inevitable as I have no intention of giving it up myself, though they are welcome to explore whatever religion they choose so long as they realize that everyone regardless of their belief system or actions deserves to be treated with kindness, dignity and respect, no exceptions.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Is the US even real?
WiiredShawn
Member
I once had a weird conversation with my (Christian) mom about how America wasn't alluded to in the Bible, so people aren't sure it's supposed to exist.
Maybe it never did. DUN DUN DUUUUUUN.
It's gotta be the Internet. Exposure to evidence.
I was the same until I saw most of the people living under my belief system fall in line under Trump.
Without an extreme and current example like that of the majority of Christians coming together to do something evil, I might still be hanging on.
Yeah, and? You're not explaining problems, you're discussing religion. Pretty much everyone who believes in a god will tell you it's about just that... "belief". So long as it does not ignore scientific reality or harm others, why do you care what other people do or do not believe?
And yes, I know many forms of religion do both, but there can be an institution that believes very deeply in something that does so without harming anyone or ignoring science.
It's a silly thing to bring up anyways, since as you said, it's untestable. The only way god interacts with evolution is something you add at the very end. Many people have been both religious and scientific, and either had them exist side by side or harmoniously just fine. I don't see a problem with that.
Honestly it shouldn't matter to you why myself or any other Christian holds those beliefs.
DonMigs85
Member
I agree. The mere fact we're talking naked apes with far greater intellect than any other creature on earth is already magical in and of itself
About saying how monotheistic religion and evolution are not mutually exclusive, I wouldn't be so sure.
Evolution demonstrates a pretty complete theory of how humans came to be the way they are, and any introduction of god would have to pretty much have this hypothesis:
"God knew that if he let nature take its course humans will eventually evolve, i.e. directed comets containing water to earth, killed predators about to kill the ancestors of all humans, etc.". The issue with that is that there is absolutely no need for good in that story, you can drop him and it'll make the same amount of sense-- and in that story god has no power or decision about how humans are to be. It stands in a very obvious conflict to what the standard religions teach. It basically mean that God kinda randomly noticed there are humans on this planet, and decided to fuck with their personal life-- but only after they've existed for hundreds of thousands of years.
I think that if you believe in both God and evolution, you're basically equating God to luck.
Anecdotally, I personally made the final transformation from very mildly religious (being previously very religious, being in a religious household) to a complete atheist with much help from evolution, so I think religious leaders have every reason to fear evolution.
Evolution demonstrates a pretty complete theory of how humans came to be the way they are, and any introduction of god would have to pretty much have this hypothesis:
"God knew that if he let nature take its course humans will eventually evolve, i.e. directed comets containing water to earth, killed predators about to kill the ancestors of all humans, etc.". The issue with that is that there is absolutely no need for good in that story, you can drop him and it'll make the same amount of sense-- and in that story god has no power or decision about how humans are to be. It stands in a very obvious conflict to what the standard religions teach. It basically mean that God kinda randomly noticed there are humans on this planet, and decided to fuck with their personal life-- but only after they've existed for hundreds of thousands of years.
I think that if you believe in both God and evolution, you're basically equating God to luck.
Anecdotally, I personally made the final transformation from very mildly religious (being previously very religious, being in a religious household) to a complete atheist with much help from evolution, so I think religious leaders have every reason to fear evolution.
The moment it effects the greater population (i.e. election, parents' boards, etc.), it can. You might be a live-and-let-live kind but many people are not.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Of course it matters what people believe. Our beliefs inform our actions, that's why public policy is consistently affected by religious ideas, it's because people believe this stuff (LGBT rights etc). People's ideas should always be challenged when they enter the public sphere, and the Christian worldview continues to do so.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Not a coincidence at all. White evangelicals are mostly conviently masking their bigotry with their "religion".
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