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[Tommie Hu$tle]

U.S. Army struggles for recruits amid Iraq war

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Staff Sgt. Richard Guzman is on the front lines of one of the U.S. Army's toughest battles in years, and he's not in Iraq.

He's an Army recruiter trying to coax young men and women into volunteering to serve at a time when U.S. ground forces are engaged in a war halfway around the world.

"To me, recruiting used to be easy. Right now, you really have to hunt for those ones who really want to" serve, said Guzman, who recruits in New York City's Harlem section.

Nearly two years into an Iraq war that has left more than 1,500 U.S. troops dead and another 11,200 wounded, recruiters like Guzman are having to work hard as the Army strives to sign up 80,000 recruits this year to replace soldiers leaving the service.

The Army in February, for the first time in nearly five years, failed to achieve its monthly recruiting goal. It is in danger of missing its annual recruiting target for the first time since 1999.

Recruiting for the Army's reserve component -- the National Guard and Army Reserve -- is suffering even more as the Pentagon relies heavily on these part-time soldiers to maintain troop levels in Iraq. The regular Army is 6 percent behind its year-to-date recruiting target, the Reserve is 10 percent behind, and the Guard is 26 percent short.

The Marine Corps, the other service providing ground forces in Iraq, has its own difficulties.

In January and February, the Marines missed their goal for signing up new recruits -- the first such shortfall in nearly a decade -- but remained a bit ahead of their target for shipping recruits into basic training.

Iraq marks the first protracted conflict for U.S. forces since the end of the draft in 1973, which ushered in the era of the all-volunteer military.

If the military fails to attract enough recruits and America maintains a large commitment in Iraq, the nation may have to consider some form of conscription, said Cato Institute defense analyst Charles Pena. "This is getting dicey," said Pena.

Lt. Col. John Gillette, who commands the Army recruiting battalion in New York City, said young people and their families are asking questions about the war.

"Instead of just talking specifically to the applicant, we're talking to the applicant's parents, and, in some cases, extended family -- aunts, uncles -- just to answer their questions and concerns as well," Gillette said.

Guzman said he reassures families that a recruit will get the normal nine weeks of basic training and further individual training and not just be shoved in a uniform and sent into combat. "They think that after two weeks in basic training, they will be deployed overseas," Guzman said.

Army Recruiting Command spokesman Douglas Smith said recruiters do everything they can to allay the apprehension of recruits and families. "But there are certain things that we just can't talk our way through or give a hard answer to, like, 'Will I be deployed?' That's just not something a recruiter can predict."

The improving economy and civilian job opportunities also are factors in recruiting, Smith said.

Army Secretary Francis Harvey said the active-duty and reserve components have added 3,000 recruiters since last year and increased enlistment bonuses to try to lure new soldiers.

"So we've got a challenge, but we're certainly not going to give up," Harvey told a congressional panel.

Defense analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute said there has been a migration of recruits away from the ground forces toward services less likely to be in harm's way in Iraq -- the Navy and Air Force.

"There's a bottom line to the recruiting debate. People don't want to die," Thompson said.

The problem is even more dire than it appears because the Army, through "stop-loss" orders, has forced thousands of soldiers designated for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan to remain in uniform when their volunteer service commitment ends, thus keeping recruiting needs artificially low, Pena said.

Some of these soldiers may remain in the Army involuntarily for up to 18 months beyond when they were scheduled to leave.

"The military can hold things together on a relatively short-term basis through some fairly extreme measures like 'stop-loss' and making much greater use of Reserve and Guard units to fill the requirements in Iraq," Pena said.

"But you cannot do this indefinitely. At some point, you break the force. And the question is: how close are we to that breaking point?"

Zoiks!

 

[shuri]

What's going to happen to you tho? Can you get drafted even if you already worked for the army?

 

[Willco]

I've heard this from this forum every several weeks since 9/11. Yawn.

 

[aoi tsuki]

"There's a bottom line to the recruiting debate. People don't want to die," Thompson said.

CORRECT!

We would've also accepted "People don't want to fight in a war they don't believe in" or "People don't trust this administration".

 

[goodcow]

I think, given the history of Vietnam, and the fact that half the people in this country voted against Bush, with a majority of them being of the draft age, if we did have a draft, most would just choose jail.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

What's going to happen to you tho? Can you get drafted even if you already worked for the army?

Me, I'm too old to be drafted as the current rules are written if they decided to extend the age it then I would probably find a way to hop on a plane back here doing what I'm doing. Hell, I don't mind being here as long as I'm getting paid for it.

CORRECT!

We would've also accepted "People don't want to fight in a war they don't believe in" or "People don't trust this administration".

Wel the "people" shouldn't have put an Administration in power that they clearly don't trust. This is the thing about Americans that make me sick/sad. The are all 'We Support the Troops' and no one want to look like they are against 'freedom' but, they don't want to pay for 'freedom' with their own kids. 'Freedom' is great as long as someone else's kid is catching the bullets.

 

[xsarien]

"To me, recruiting used to be easy. Right now, you really have to hunt for those ones who really want to" serve, said Guzman, who recruits in New York City's Harlem section.

Clearly the recruiters are looking in the wrong places. I suggested looking at red states first, since they firmly believe that the war on terror is working, that invading Iraq was a justified maneuver in said "war," and don't see it as a cynical land and oil grab.

Let's put Bush voters' guns where their mouths are. If you support the war it's time to stop criticizing those who don't, suit up, and learn to drive a Humvee.

Wel the "people" shouldn't have put an Administration in power that they clearly don't trust. This is the thing about Americans that make me sick/sad. The are all 'We Support the Troops' and no one want to look like they are against 'freedom' but, they don't want to pay for 'freedom' with their own kids. 'Freedom' is great as long as someone else's kid is catching the bullets.

The problem with your argument: At this point in the game, I think most Americans are keenly aware that Iraq under Saddam had no bearing on our freedom. It was another nation building exercise, sold to the public as imperative to the very survival of our country. But once the WMD argument turned out to be entirely bogus, well, you know what happened from there.

In the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and both World Wars, we were fighting for our freedom, for our country's future. In Iraq, none of that applies. At best, you can argue that we're fighting for another country's future, but you'd be hard pressed to find an intelligent person who doesn't think it's just a pretext. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, was never a threat to the United States, and to go in now under the guise of human rights issues while we stood by and did nothing when Saddam gassed people in the 80s just adds to the collective skepticism of the "freedom-hatin', commie-lovin', terrorist-supportin', gay-lovin' libruls."

Do you know what makes me sad? The fact that most Americans believe that "freeing" Iraq is going to somehow stem terrorism; that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. Our presence in Iraq has created more people willing to die in retaliation for American military-caused deaths, it's no coincidence that once Saddam fell, Al-Qaeda moved in.

We're not going after the cause, we're going after the symptoms. That's the problem. Until we recognize that, there will always be Muslims in that part of the world willing to die if it means hurting the United States and its western allies.

 

[909er]

Me, I'm too old to be drafted as the current rules are written if they decided to extend the age it then I would probably find a way to hop on a plane back here doing what I'm doing. Hell, I don't mind being here as long as I'm getting paid for it.




Wel the "people" shouldn't have put an Administration in power that they clearly don't trust. This is the thing about Americans that make me sick/sad. The are all 'We Support the Troops' and no one want to look like they are against 'freedom' but, they don't want to pay for 'freedom' with their own kids. 'Freedom' is great as long as someone else's kid is catching the bullets.

Well, if you noticed America's a pretty damn big place. Being a Californian, it's not my fault that Bush is in power even though the people in my state overwhelmingly oppose him. Seriously, you sound really ignorant for someone past the draft age.

 

[Triumph]

I think it spells "self inflicted gunshot wound to the foot", is what it spells.

 

[Triumph]

Well, if you noticed America's a pretty damn big place. Being a Californian, it's not my fault that Bush is in power even though the people in my state overwhelmingly oppose him. Seriously, you sound really ignorant for someone past the draft age.

You're still on the hook for this goofball, tho.

 

[Santo]

The Governator pushed for $3 billion in stem cell research funds, what has your governer done?

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Well, if you noticed America's a pretty damn big place.

Really? I hadn't noticed.

Being a Californian, it's not my fault that Bush is in power even though the people in my state overwhelmingly oppose him.

Too bad your highminded Californian ideals couldn't spread to most of the states east of you. Doesn't matter if your state opposed him. He still your president and when two years down the road when they have tapped all the IRR they can you and your state opposing him won't matter all that much. You are still coming to the sandbox when they call your number. So what is the point you are trying to make exactly?

Seriously, you sound really ignorant for someone past the draft age.

Yeah, I guess I do, I should probably just head to Iraq now.

 

[909er]

You're still on the hook for this goofball, tho.

To be fair, between Arnold, the idiot whose the cause of all our problems(Davis) and a socialist Mexican MECha member(Bustamante), the choice wasn't all that good.

 

[Culex]

I think if you've already served, you cannot be drafted again. The only exception being if your IRR, but then you're screwed either way.

One year left for me, yay!

 

[909er]

Really? I hadn't noticed.


Too bad your highminded Californian ideals couldn't spread to most of the states east of you. Doesn't matter if your state opposed him. He still your president and when two years down the road when they have tapped all the IRR they can you and your state opposing him won't matter all that much. You are still coming to the sandbox when they call your number. So what is the point you are trying to make exactly?


Yeah, I guess I do, I should probably just head to Iraq now.

The point I'm making was half of America didn't vote for him, yet you're acting like the whole "freedom" BS Bush is doing is overwhelmingly supported by every American. It isn't.

 

[Archaix]

Me, I'm too old to be drafted as the current rules are written if they decided to extend the age it then I would probably find a way to hop on a plane back here doing what I'm doing. Hell, I don't mind being here as long as I'm getting paid for it.




Wel the "people" shouldn't have put an Administration in power that they clearly don't trust. This is the thing about Americans that make me sick/sad. The are all 'We Support the Troops' and no one want to look like they are against 'freedom' but, they don't want to pay for 'freedom' with their own kids. 'Freedom' is great as long as someone else's kid is catching the bullets.

It's pretty damned easy to support the troops and not the war. Easier than to support both, I'd say.

 

[videogamer]

The Governator pushed for $3 billion in stem cell research funds, what has your governer done?

Pushed? He didn't come out in support of Prop 71 until literally 2-3 weeks before the election. By then, the polls suggested that the measure was going to pass anyways.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Too bad your highminded Californian ideals couldn't spread to most of the states east of you. Doesn't matter if your state opposed him. He still your president and when two years down the road when they have tapped all the IRR they can you and your state opposing him won't matter all that much. You are still coming to the sandbox when they call your number. So what is the point you are trying to make exactly?

You mentioned something about Americans that made you sick/sad. He pointed out that that complaint doesn't apply to a lot of Americans. The people that don't trust the administration are by and large not the same group who put them in power.

 

[Fresh Prince]

What you need is a religious army with a rifle in one hand and a bible in the other. Shoot first, convert later. That'd get most of the red states to join. No homos too.

 

[909er]

It's pretty damned easy to support the troops and not the war. Easier than to support both, I'd say.

Yeah. I have a friend in the Army, he's already been told he's going to Iraq. I still hate the war, but I'll support my buddy all the way through this mess.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I think if you've already served, you cannot be drafted again. The only exception being if your IRR, but then you're screwed either way.

One year left for me, yay!

Slow down there, my old college roommate has been out of the Army for two years and they just called him back this past Thursday. You better pray your MOS isn't in demand.

The point I'm making was half of America didn't vote for him, yet you're acting like the whole "freedom" BS Bush is doing is overwhelmingly supported by every American. It isn't.

I know it isn't. However the way I feel about it not voting for Bush does not absolve you (or I) of the current state of American affairs. The way I see it people on both side of the political spectrum failed. The right for voting for him and the left for not coming up with a compelling reason not to vote for him. Regardless how you feel about it we ALL are on this roller coaster and can't get off until the conductor gets replaced. This is just one of the first signs of us reaping what we have sowed.

 

[Diablos]

Expect a riot throughout the country if there's a draft. What an exciting point in history this would be if it happened.

 

[tralfazz]

I think, given the history of Vietnam, and the fact that half the people in this country voted against Bush, with a majority of them being of the draft age, if we did have a draft, most would just choose jail.

Screw jail. I think people would flat out say no. I think that they overwhelming opposition to the draft would force the gov to lay off jailing people not to mention the country's ability to produce a lawsuit faster than a drop of rain.

 

[Kobun Heat]

If you are writing an article about military recruitment, you are absolutely one hundred percent guaranteed to find some think tank analyst who will tell you that a draft is a likelihood regardless of whether or not it is. If all a Reuters piece can muster is a paragraph with a waffling if-then-maybe type of quote buried in the middle of a story, you don't need to worry about a thing.

 

[number386]

I think, given the history of Vietnam, and the fact that half the people in this country voted against Bush, with a majority of them being of the draft age, if we did have a draft, most would just choose jail.

I choose:

c) Canada

As a added bonus I could eat Poutine whenever I want.

 

[tralfazz]

If you are writing an article about military recruitment, you are absolutely one hundred percent guaranteed to find some think tank analyst who will tell you that a draft is a likelihood regardless of whether or not it is. If all a Reuters piece can muster is a paragraph with a waffling if-then-maybe type of quote buried in the middle of a story, you don't need to worry about a thing.

I honestly don't think a draft is going to happen. Even if the prez is contemplating it I don't think he could pull it off and it would be a severly damaging blow to his legacy; more than has already happened. Back in the Vietnam era the President was still considered unflappable and respected, even feared. After Nixon, Clinton and now Bush the public has more confidence in its' convictions and critcism of the prez. The press and internet also have given the administration less leverage than it used to have.

 

[Drensch]

I can gay it up pretty fast.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

If you are writing an article about military recruitment, you are absolutely one hundred percent guaranteed to find some think tank analyst who will tell you that a draft is a likelihood regardless of whether or not it is. If all a Reuters piece can muster is a paragraph with a waffling if-then-maybe type of quote buried in the middle of a story, you don't need to worry about a thing.

This may be true and I don't honestly think they are going to start drafting next week. But, here is the reality you have guys here that have been here for the better part of 2 years many of them are getting the hell out on top of that they can't come back to the sandbox for at least 330 days. They are pulling guys back in who have been out of the service for years, recruitment numbers are down, the Army had it's lowest amount of dishonorable discharges for homosexuals this year. Not becasue there were less homosexuals but, becasue they are unwilling to let personnel go. Also, the political climate is looking to get worse instead of better as far as international troop comitment. All these variables are going to have an effect if the Iraq thing doesn't right itself. I'm not saying that there WILL be a draft but the conditions for making it feasable are simmering.

 

[MC Safety]

A defense analyst mentioned the word conscription?

I suggest you all start panicking, proclaiming your homosexuality, and making plans to move to whatever foreign...

Oops. Never mind.

 

[android]

So Tommie do you guys over there feel the US will invade anywhere else in the next four years? Iran, Syria, North Korea?

I choose:

c) Canada

As a added bonus I could eat Poutine whenever I want.

Come on up. Free Poutine for everyone*



*Restaurant owners reserve the right to charge for Poutine

 

[AssMan]

^^Can't go to Canada. They will throw you back here.

 

[bjork]

Hooray for being old and used up!

 

[PotatoeMasher]

To be fair, between Arnold, the idiot whose the cause of all our problems(Davis) and a socialist Mexican MECha member(Bustamante), the choice wasn't all that good.

"Corporate fatcats and tax loopholes!"

 

[sans_pants]

Well, if you noticed America's a pretty damn big place. Being a Californian, it's not my fault that Bush is in power even though the people in my state overwhelmingly oppose him. Seriously, you sound really ignorant for someone past the draft age.

yet 45% of your state voted for bush

seems like overwhelming hate to me

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

So Tommie do you guys over there feel the US will invade anywhere else in the next four years? Iran, Syria, North Korea?

I can only speak as a civilian. It's not like Rumsfield asks if Tommie Hu$tle is in the building before they can start on the secret plan. I pretty much associate with low to mid level Marines and to be honest with you they are more concerned about going home and checking on their wives and kids moreso than they are about any new operations. The guys here are tired, they just want to go home and try to live some part of a normal life. I see service personnel dropping like flies in the next 2 years. So I think that some sort of forced retention plan is going to be in place. I mean when they are calling 50 year old men back to serve that is telling you options are limited. I mean let me put it bluntly, they have women here working as gunners on convoys, that should begin to tell you the current situation.

Also I don't know how welcoming Canada will be if they start

PERSONALLY, I don't see the administration trying any new aggression anywhere on the planet until they can get a handle on Iraq. Why do you think the administration has started this new push at multi-laterlaterism (See - France and US on Leabnon)? The troops are pushed as far as they can go and the further 9/11 gets pushed back from people's mind the less jingositc they will be. On top of that the international community is perfectly fine at working around the administration (See - EU and weapons trade to China or Russia and Iran in dealing in nuke material). Everyone knows that the administration's options are limited so they are pushing the envlope, plus this administration lost the moral high ground with the 'apparent' Iraq fiasco. So I don't see anything happening in the next 5 years unless there is a MAJOR flare up somewhere on the planet.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I hope there is a draft, will be interesting to see the effect it would have on next election.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I hope there is a draft, will be interesting to see the effect it would have on next election.

Me too truth be told. Because if there is a need for a draft it would be a pratical matter and not a politcal one. No viable canidate could say that they would not authorize a draft. Aside from minor chaos I would see the rise of at least one third party.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

i say Draft all the soccer moms and their kids who fell for Bush's Fear Mongering. Really i would like to see how many rich republican kids get drafted.

 

[NLB2]

Uhm, I think it spells "draft".

 

[teh_pwn]

It spells: I have ADD, so I can't be drafted n stuff. But if I can, then I choose UK/Canada/Australia whatever way possible.

 

[Lil' Dice]

My brother comes home from Iraq this week. Right now he's chilin' in Kwait.
He has a year left in the service, and says he's getting as far away from military life as possible once he's done.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i stopped caring about any hypothetical drafts on december 1st 2004

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

My brother comes home from Iraq this week. Right now he's chilin' in Kwait.
He has a year left in the service, and says he's getting as far away from military life as possible once he's done.

His response sounds similar to others that have been on lengthy deployments.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

i stopped caring about any hypothetical drafts on december 1st 2004

:lol :lol :lol

birthday?

 

[Blackie]

i stopped caring about any hypothetical drafts on december 1st 2004

:lol :lol :lol

Because at that time you turned 80, at which point you can't be forced to join the military?

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

i say Draft all the soccer moms and their kids who fell for Bush's Fear Mongering. Really i would like to see how many rich republican kids get drafted.

me too.

 

[sans_pants]

i say Draft all the soccer moms and their kids who fell for Bush's Fear Mongering. Really i would like to see how many rich republican kids get drafted.

i say draft all the actors and musicians and the kids that listen to their political babble

it goes both ways pal

 

[android]

i say draft all the actors and musicians and the kids that listen to their political babble

it goes both ways pal

If only the actors and musicians got the US military into a quagmire in the middle east, at the same time scaring off any potential recruits.

 

[The Faceless Master]

birthday?

you bet

 

[xsarien]

it goes both ways pal

Actually, no, it doesn't. But thanks for playing.