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Da Vinci's Demons - Season 2 - YO. DAVINCIGUY. BRO. - Saturdays on Starz

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H

Hours Left

Member
I see lots of my TV Gaffers in here. I've heard this show is guilty of some major gay-baiting, with the lots of promises of truly exploring Leo's bisexuality effectively fizzling out into nothing but some random references, and one episode that trots it out then quickly sweeps it back under the rug.

Confirm or deny?
 
Tokubetsu

Tokubetsu

Member
Hours Left said:
I see lots of my TV Gaffers in here. I've heard this show is guilty of some major gay-baiting, with the lots of promises of truly exploring Leo's bisexuality effectively fizzling out into nothing but some random references, and one episode that trots it out then quickly sweeps it back under the rug.

Confirm or deny?
Click to expand...

Pretty spot on.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Tokubetsu said:
I'm about anxious to get past all this Lorenzo Medecci is in danger! stuff.
Click to expand...

I think that stuff is out of the way now.

Hours Left said:
I see lots of my TV Gaffers in here. I've heard this show is guilty of some major gay-baiting, with the lots of promises of truly exploring Leo's bisexuality effectively fizzling out into nothing but some random references, and one episode that trots it out then quickly sweeps it back under the rug.

Confirm or deny?
Click to expand...

I mean, I guess you could say that. They briefly explore his attraction to men in one episode and it's not really mentioned again because Da Vinci is involved with one of the main female characters. It's really not that big of a deal though.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Tokubetsu said:
Pretty spot on.
Click to expand...

I mean... yes, but no.

Being gay in Renaissance Italy meant being killed. They did go through his Sodomy trial in Season 1 and then confirm that he was in fact "guilty", revealing his bisexuality. I don't think they NEEDED to follow up on that immediately especially since they were already in the middle of a story with Da Vinci and Lucrecia. In that respect, I don't see how this is at all "gay baiting".

IRL: Da Vinci was gay as the day was long. He was no bisexual. He liked dudes. He drew pictures of giant Penis' chasing his favorite"lovers naked ass. Never showed an interest in a girl in his life as far as history knows. So from that perspective, him being with women at all is a bit of a turn on history for the sake of presenting a "straight-ish" lead character.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
RatskyWatsky said:
I mean, I guess you could say that. They briefly explore his attraction to men in one episode and it's not really mentioned again because Da Vinci is involved with one of the main female characters. It's really not that big of a deal though.
Click to expand...
Apparently the creators of the series were really hyping the bisexual nature of Leo up to a lot of LGBT media sites, with constant promises that they are going to do that aspect of him justice, but then they totally failed to deliver.

Seems super shady to me, especially since as Sheroking has said, Leonardo leaned heavily toward men in his attractions, but this series has totally flipped that on its head just to have a straight protagonist.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Hours Left said:
Apparently the creators of the series were really hyping the bisexual nature of Leo up to a lot of LGBT media sites, with constant promises that they are going to do that aspect of him justice, but then they totally failed to deliver.

Seems super shady to me, especially since as Sheroking has said, Leonardo leaned heavily toward men in his attractions, but this series has totally flipped that on its head just to have a straight protagonist.
Click to expand...

I'm conflicted about it, but I don't think it's overtly scummy.

Da Vinci was also not an action hero. He never discovered South America. He never invented scuba gear to infiltrate the Vatican archives or fought off Dracula (who was also vaguely supernatural).

I can't be MAD that they're fictionalizing real aspects of his history for the story when that's the whole gimmick of the show, and I'm certainly not prepared to say they didn't do his homosexuality any justice 9 episodes into the series.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
Sheroking said:
I'm conflicted about it, but I don't think it's overtly scummy.

Da Vinci was also not an action hero. He never discovered South America. He never invented scuba gear to infiltrate the Vatican archives or fought off Dracula (who was also vaguely supernatural).

I can't be MAD that they're fictionalizing real aspects of his history for the story when that's the whole gimmick of the show, and I'm certainly not prepared to say they didn't do his homosexuality any justice 9 episodes into the series.
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Well, if they don't get cancelled, they can always turn it around. But I do remember that they were really stringing a lot of sites along in the first season with promises of Leo's hot manlovin'. That already sours me to watching it, and I was previously thinking of giving it a shot.

There's way too many other shows on TV to support one where they've already tried to pull the wool over the viewer's eyes. Maybe if they get their act together and start being honest about their true intentions with the show, then I'll give it a look.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Hours Left said:
Apparently the creators of the series were really hyping the bisexual nature of Leo up to a lot of LGBT media sites, with constant promises that they are going to do that aspect of him justice, but then they totally failed to deliver.
Click to expand...

Do you have any links to this? Outside of an interview or two that mentioned it, I never saw them making a big deal out of it. And, I mean, they did do the whole sodomy trial in episode 5 and they did justice to it.

Leonardo leaned heavily toward men in his attractions, but this series has totally flipped that on its head just to have a straight protagonist.
Click to expand...

Well, "attractions". Da Vinci's irl sexuality is very murky. Maybe he was gay, maybe he was bi, maybe he was asexual. The writers of the show chose to make him bi (probably to make him more universally appealing), but outside of his romance with one of the female characters and the sodomy trial, his sexuality really doesn't have any relevance to anything else on the show. In fact, he apparently doesn't even have sex with anyone this season. The story doesn't accommodate for it this year. They did say that they'll get back to it in season 3 though.

It really really isn't a big deal though and there's no grand conspiracy to hoodwink gay people or anything lol.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
RatskyWatsky said:
Do you have any links to this? Outside of an interview or two that mentioned it, I never saw them making a big deal out of it. And, I mean, they did do the whole sodomy trial in episode 5 and they did justice to it.
Click to expand...
It was a while ago, so I can't find the exact article I read, but here's another one...

http://www.thebacklot.com/banishing-davincis-demons/01/2014/

It does mention that (in the event of a season 3) they are gonna go back to it. But who knows what that means.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
RatskyWatsky said:
Well, "attractions". Da Vinci's irl sexuality is very murky. Maybe he was gay, maybe he was bi, maybe he was asexual. The writers of the show chose to make him bi (probably to make him more universally appealing), but outside of his romance with one of the female characters and the sodomy trial, his sexuality really doesn't have any relevance to anything else on the show. In fact, he apparently doesn't even have sex with anyone this season. The story doesn't accommodate for it this year. They did say that they'll get back to it in season 3 though.

It really really isn't a big deal though and there's no grand conspiracy to hoodwink gay people or anything lol.
Click to expand...

It's not, though.

It's pretty widely accepted at this stage that he was simply gay. He had a male lover that he sketched in sexual situations, that he drew into almost every painting, that he left everything to when he died.

It's as obvious as it could be without a clear admission from him.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I'm so curious as to what the premiere ratings were like...

Hours Left said:
It was a while ago, so I can't find the exact article I read, but here's another one...

http://www.thebacklot.com/banishing-davincis-demons/01/2014/

It does mention that (in the event of a season 3) they are gonna go back to it. But who knows what that means.
Click to expand...

They seem conscious of the fact that people want to see that side of Da Vinci, but at the same time, they're unwilling to "go there" unless they have story reasons to do so - they don't want to throw in a few gratuitous gay sex scenes just for the hell of it. I can respect that.

Sheroking said:
It's not, though.

It's pretty widely accepted at this stage that he was simply gay. He had a male lover that he sketched in sexual situations, that he drew into almost every painting, that he left everything to when he died.

It's as obvious as it could be without a clear admission from him.
Click to expand...

My point is that, because there's not any definitive proof that he was gay, people are free to speculate, and so long as they don't make him straight, I don't see a problem with it.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
I really liked the opener! I was riveted and shit.

Things I liked:

- The flashforward. Kinda reminded me of Hannibal's opener a little. That shit was crazy. I need to know how Leo and Riario got to that point.

- Al Rahim returning and that creeptastic god villain thing. The Thing at the Center of the Labyrinth? Creepy! And I loved it. Like the Dracula episode, I loved the horror seeping in.

- Promise of an epic adventure to South America.

- The blood transfusion. Utterly ludicrous, but I burst out laughing at how ludicrous it was.

- Riario's baller motherfucking shades are back.

- Zoroaster once bedding a girl by pretending to be her dead husband. What!?

- Lara Pulver shined nicely in this one.

- New opening credits! Fantastic!

Things I didn't like:

- Everything else was sorta meh.

All in all, I really liked this episode. Good stuff.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
578K viewers for the premiere. That's the second highest rated episode of the series, behind the Spartacus series finale lead in inflated series premiere which earned over 1 million viewers. Only two episodes managed to enter the 500K range last season, episode 2 with 503K and episode 6 with 550K. The rest all earned 380-460K viewers.

So I'd say that it's a decent start. If it grows a bit or at least maintains around 550K, I could see them renewing it, but if it drops I think it'll be gone. (not taking into account On Demand, repeats, international, DVD sales, etc. etc.)

NotTheGuyYouKill said:
- Zoroaster once bedding a girl by pretending to be her dead husband. What!?
Click to expand...

lol that was amazing!
 
R

rocketskates

Member
Nice ratings.

Zoroaster was hilarious. His confession to Lucrezia was priceless. Hopefully Leo don't find out about that kiss! Bro code yo!

oh who am I kidding, I would have said the same thing too. She's so fucking beautiful.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
RatskyWatsky said:
578K viewers for the premiere. That's the second highest rated episode of the series, behind the Spartacus series finale lead in inflated series premiere which earned over 1 million viewers. Only two episodes managed to enter the 500K range last season, episode 2 with 503K and episode 6 with 550K. The rest all earned 380-460K viewers.

So I'd say that it's a decent start. If it grows a bit or at least maintains around 550K, I could see them renewing it, but if it drops I think it'll be gone. (not taking into account On Demand, repeats, international, DVD sales, etc. etc.)
Click to expand...
Deadline with the cumulative numbers, too:
The Adjacent Productions show drew 2 million viewers over all its broadcasts last weekend. That’s just a 6% dip from the 2.14 million that Demons had over its Season 1 debut weekend last year. It’s also a 41% rise over the show’s Season 1 finale weekend in early June. The total plays for that weekend were 1.4 million. On its own, the Season 1 finale at 10PM on June 7 garnered 380,000 viewers – 34% fewer than the Season 2 debut. With Season 1 of the show getting an average audience of 1.6 million over its weekend airings, the Season 2 debut weekend was up 25%.
Click to expand...
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
So yeah, that Medici vs. Pazzi feud sure ended quickly! I expected their struggle to continue for at least half of the season.
 
Tokubetsu

Tokubetsu

Member
"I have never been more fully erect."

AfP3e2e.gif
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
I really enjoyed this one. Loved seeing Lorenzo and Leonardo put aside their differences (and Lorenzo's homicidal attitude) and totally bro it out, ultimate style. That last scene, I was on the verge of man-tears (but not really).

Not enough Count Riario this week, but I really liked that scene with the slavemaidgirl. Interesting story about King Solomon, I did not know that one. Also, I liked Riario telling Nico that he kept him alive cause he liked him. I was like "What?"

Catherine's brother, the priest, was hilarious. He totally thought he was gonna be rescued by his sister after conspiring to murder her and her daughters and her husband and then abandoning them to their deaths very visibly.

LOL.

Also, Zoroaster is just such a dick, I love it. I wonder where Lucrezia goes from here now that I'm pretty sure her relationship with Lorenzo is dead and Leo is heading to South America.

Oh, and Amerigo Vespucci. Fucking LOL. I hope he goes on the trip, dude's hilarious.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Cornballer said:
I liked this episode. There was a fair amount of shuffling the pieces around the board to get things set up for what's to come, but it was still entertaining. The show feels more self assured this year, but it still retains its whimsical attitude.
Click to expand...

It definitely seems like they've got a better grasp of what the tone should be, that's for sure.

- Den of Geek: 22 things we learned visiting the set of Da Vinci’s Demons (some minor spoilers)
Click to expand...

Lots of cool tidbits in that article:

“We Googled *insert upcoming location*, rather than got on a plane and went there, and we created a 3D model, a scale replica, with artistic licence.

With season two we thought there’s absolutely no point in going to *insert upcoming location* and having a look at what’s there, because we’re going to create it all anyway. You can waste so much money doing that, which doesn’t end up on the screen."
Click to expand...

According to David S. Goyer, “One of the benefits of going into a second season is, we had to digitally build Florence and Rome and we spent a good chunk of money, like $400 grand doing that in the first season, but now we own all that for the second season so we don’t have to re-spend that money again, so we can put even more money into even cooler visual effects shots.”
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Gregg Chillin, who plays Leo’s childhood friend Zoroaster, told us “[Goyer] is a bundle of amazing secrets and he’s quite good at spilling them. If you want a secret kept, do not tell him because they all come out. Tom [Riley] does a great job of holding onto spoilers forever, and we go up to him and ask, ‘So what happens in episode nine?’ and he jokes ‘You all die’ and it’s instantly dismissed, but David has this amazing way of just letting it all spill out one thing after another. You just sit and listen.”
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Blake Ritson [Riario, on his magnificent sunglasses] “There may even be copycats, I may have started a trend. I love them, I wear them to set sometimes just for the devilry of it.”
Click to expand...

“Some of the Renaissance is really gaudy and ugly and our Renaissance, the world that we’ve created, is much more of a fortified nature.” Ed Thomas tells us, “We wanted a visual journey, we weren’t just designing for the first season, so as the Medici family and the Vatican grows, we want the visuals to grow and look more expensive so we arrive somewhere. We’re very much late Medieval/early Renaissance, even though that’s probably not quite our period, it doesn’t matter. You don’t get a writer like David Goyer and then contain him to what something should be, with someone like that, you just let them run wild.”
Click to expand...

The production designer does get complaints about historical accuracy (but he doesn’t care)

“You’ll always get the odd ‘Dear points of view, why-oh-why-oh-why have they got red candles because they never had red candles?', and you just think, ‘Fuck you, whatever’. You get an awful lot more from people who love steampunk and who love what you’ve done.”
Click to expand...

The writers room for season 3 (which hasn’t been confirmed yet) started last November.
Click to expand...

NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Not enough Count Riario this week, but I really liked that scene with the slavemaidgirl.
Click to expand...

Me too :p
 
C

Chris R

Member
Recorded S2E1 and S2E2 on Saturday, but checked my On Demand and saw S1 there so I figured might as well start with that.

Really liked it (well, only seen S1E1 and S1E2 so far), but I guess it helps that I enjoyed Assassin's Creed II a bunch.

Can't wait to catch up with everyone else.
 
R

rocketskates

Member
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I really enjoyed this one. Loved seeing Lorenzo and Leonardo put aside their differences (and Lorenzo's homicidal attitude) and totally bro it out, ultimate style. That last scene, I was on the verge of man-tears (but not really).

Not enough Count Riario this week, but I really liked that scene with the slavemaidgirl. Interesting story about King Solomon, I did not know that one. Also, I liked Riario telling Nico that he kept him alive cause he liked him. I was like "What?"

Catherine's brother, the priest, was hilarious. He totally thought he was gonna be rescued by his sister after conspiring to murder her and her daughters and her husband and then abandoning them to their deaths very visibly.

LOL.

Also, Zoroaster is just such a dick, I love it. I wonder where Lucrezia goes from here now that I'm pretty sure her relationship with Lorenzo is dead and Leo is heading to South America.

Oh, and Amerigo Vespucci. Fucking LOL. I hope he goes on the trip, dude's hilarious.
Click to expand...
Best part was when Vespucci told Leo HEY WE'RE GONNA STEAL A SHIP and they both started maniacally laughing, then they look at Zoroaster and he's just giving them both a dead stare.

I wouldn't be suprised if Lucrezia ends up a stowaway on the boat or something.

Or something. We can't lose her.
 
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