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[Acorn]

The first time I heard "Antifa" I thought it was some obscure terror sect, then I found out it was anti fascists and thought "antifa" must've been chosen by right wingers to scare people.

But nope these dumbasses chose that moniker for themselves, what the fuck were they thinking? They chose a name that makes them seem "other".

What's in a name? Alot when you're partially fighting a pr war.

 

[chaobreaker]

As someone who grew up in Apartheid SA, you'd think Trevor would have stronger views against coddling fascist movements calling for a white ethnostate.

 

[kitsunelaine]

The first time I heard "Antifa" I thought it was some obscure terror sect, then I found out it was anti fascists and thought "antifa" must've been chosen by right wingers to scare people.

But nope these dumbasses chose that moniker for themselves, what the fuck were they thinking? They chose a name that makes them seem "other".

What's in a name? Alot when you're partially fighting a pr war.

I honestly have no idea if they chose it for themselves or if they adopted it like some did in response to "SJW". Honestly the similarity between the two terms at this point is pretty striking, but the antifa well as a term hasn't been anywhere near as poisoned as the "SJW" well.

 

[Chichikov]

You need to keep in mind that "antifa" doesn't just mean "anti-fascist" for a big part of the World, but is used to describe the most extreme-leaning part of this group. The ones thinking violence is a good way to take care of the problem. We are not talking property damage but straight up beating the shit out of neo-nazis, which is quite a step up in the "action" you are taking to support your ideas.

You can be anti-fascist without supporting the antifa movements.

You need to keep in mind that neo-nazis getting beat up is not an urgent problem the US faces, if it's a problem at all.
This OMG antifa hysteria is mostly made up or exaggerated bullshit that the right wing machine propagate in order to discredit protesters against this administration and its policies. And you are playing along.

 

[Shito]

You need to keep in mind that neo-nazis getting beat up is not an urgent problem the US faces, if it's a problem at all.
This OMG antifa hysteria is mostly made up or exaggerated bullshit that the right wing machine propagate in order to discredit protesters against this administration and its policies. And you are playing along.

If you think the "antifa" definition is just "exaggerated bullshit from the right wing propaganda" you are really deluding yourself: this is a very narrow vision to have. I would advise you to learn what the antifa movements did and are still doing in Europe.
Extremism is just as bad with the left than it is with the right.

 

[Zoggy]

The video game part was pretty interesting considering the big coming out party of the alt right (Milo, Cernovich etc) stuff started in the video game world. The alt right is indeed trying to claim games with gamergate and the like. What a weird thing to seemingly on purpose fuck up/dismiss for a joke?

The real bullshit was him name dropping tekken and said he's an eddy main

FUCking eddy mains smh

 

[Keasar]

I watched the whole clip and I saw nothing about the initial thread name in there, this is how Antifa is viewed by other people and I myself have heard the sentiment come from people.

I however, while acknowledging that there are radical parts of it that smashes windows and are reckless, still very much prefer Antifa over any white supremacist organization who are outright after ethnic cleansing, homophobia, sexism and more.

 

[Wvrs]

I agree with him, even if they're really doing what they due to good intentions (and not just because they're anarchists etc), the everyday person doesn't view them as Nazi hunters; they view them as just as bad as the neo-Nazis they fight against, in terms of inciting violence and disturbing public order.

So many people here advocating violence and it makes me wonder how many would be willing to get their own hands dirty. Not many, I imagine.

 

[Chasm Skulker]

You need to keep in mind that neo-nazis getting beat up is not an urgent problem the US faces, if it's a problem at all.
This OMG antifa hysteria is mostly made up or exaggerated bullshit that the right wing machine propagate in order to discredit protesters against this administration and its policies. And you are playing along.

You could really argue that the OMG nazis hysteria is exaggerated bullshit and that an assortment of delusional racists with swastikas and MAGA hats is not an urgent problem the US faces either.

 

[Xando]

You need to keep in mind that neo-nazis getting beat up is not an urgent problem the US faces, if it's a problem at all.
This OMG antifa hysteria is mostly made up or exaggerated bullshit that the right wing machine propagate in order to discredit protesters against this administration and its policies. And you are playing along.

I‘d like to invite you to come to Hamburg, Germany on May 1st and tell me how this is right wing propaganda while the antifa throws Molotovs at the police

 

[thetrin]

White supremacists literally killed a woman and lynched a man on video near a police station and self-proclaimed progressives will still drop their pants and bend over to complain about the people fighting them

This point needs to be hammered into everyone's skull.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You could really argue that the OMG nazis hysteria is exaggerated bullshit and that an assortment of delusional racists with swastikas and MAGA hats is not an urgent problem the US faces either.

Well yeah, if you're white you're less likely to view white supremacy as a problem. This is nothing new or notable.

Even if someone somewhere were to be recognized as the "leader" of the left and they unequivocally denounced the violent people in Antifa it wouldn't matter. America's current leader is also a pretty big figure in the white supremacist movement and has made it clear he has no plans to stop.

I‘d like to invite you to come to Hamburg, Germany on May 1st and tell me how this is right wing propaganda while the antifa throws Molotovs at the police

We're talking about America tho

 

[Bastables]

I‘d like to invite you to come to Hamburg, Germany on May 1st and tell me how this is right wing propaganda while the antifa throws Molotovs at the police

Regale me with the crimes of antifa, socialists and communists when killing innocent NAZI's in germany historically. Tell me of the horrors of petrol bombs historically used in attempts to stop NAZI tanks.

Tell us all how sad it is that Radio in Hamburg announced Hitler had fallen fighting for the Reich on May the first 1945, while Donitz announced he would save the German people from destruction at the hand of the Bolsheviks.

Tell us all of the poor 60,000 peace loving NAZI soldiers killed and 120,000 captured trying to contain the unprovoked Violence of the wicked Bolshevik anti fascist 1st Belorussian and Ukrainian Front at the conclusion of the battle of halbe 1st of May 1945.

 

[Chichikov]

You could really argue that the OMG nazis hysteria is exaggerated bullshit and that an assortment of delusional racists with swastikas and MAGA hats is not an urgent problem the US faces either.

I most certainly can't argue that.
Do you want to argue that?

 

[Xando]

We're talking about America tho

Still the same despicable ideology that uses violence to promote its goals. Just like Nazis or Islamists.

Regale me with the crimes of antifa, socialists and communists when killing innocent NAZI's in germany historically. Tell me of the horrors of petrol bombs historically used in attempts to stop NAZI tanks.

What does the antifa attacking the police and destroying whole neighborhoods to as they call it „fight the system“ have to do with nazis? Or are you calling the german police and the civilians which cars get burned nazis?

 

[hodgy100]

Noah is right. You arent going to get "the moderate" on your side if you keep being violent like this, even when it is the right thing to do. it pushes them away into the hands of the alt-right. and in the end we need anyone we can get to stand against white supremacy. I know its a double standard. but we really have to be the better person.

 

[Keasar]

You could really argue that the OMG nazis hysteria is exaggerated bullshit and that an assortment of delusional racists with swastikas and MAGA hats is not an urgent problem the US faces either.

Isn't a delusional racist wearing a MAGA hat and possibly a Swastiska (I've never seen him naked, completely possible until proven wrong) sitting right now in the White House as the leader of the United States of America?

I'd consider that a pretty urgent problem.

 

[SilentRob]

Can someone retrace why and how the term "Antifa" suddenly rose to prominence after Charlottesville? Leftextremists called themselves Antifa for decades here in germany but it was never really a thing in the US. And then, suddenly, everyone is Antifa and they are some big, new threat worth talking about? The US does not have a problem with left-wing extremism. Giving the few people using protests as an excuse to destroy stuff the term "Antifa" as if they are a huge, organized left-extremist terror group hellbent on overthrowing the state is ludicrous.

Am I completely wrong suspecting that it probably comes from some alt-right-forum or talk show or radio host finding a "new", scary term to describe counter-protesters and using it via the mass media to scare the general public? Like...there were people destroying property during the Women's March. Never heard a single mainstream media outlet using the term "Antifa" to describe them.

 

[astroturfing]

Yes, remember that antifa fights for racial cleansing and genocide of the Jewish people. The same scum indeed.

what does it matter what you say you fight for, if you do senseless and random destructive shit?

 

[Spuck-uk]

I find the term "Antifa" weird. I didn't know what I meant when it started popping up and soon enough it was fairly common. It sounded like a word mean to represent a mean group of people, meant to sound scary.

Then I found out it meant 'anti-fascists'.

Isn't that a good thing? There should be a different term for it, because not all anti fascists are 'radical' and 'violent', which I believe is the group that the term is trying to define. How about just assholes.

Its being used incorrectly as a blanket term for left wing activists. Largely because they scare liberals.

The term properly applied does refer to anti fascist direct action groups that have been around since the 1930s. Individual members may or may not be nazi punchers.

It's not some monolithic group, but a collection of small groups that work together as needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_movements

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Noah is right. You arent going to get "the moderate" on your side if you keep being violent like this, even when it is the right thing to do. it pushes them away into the hands of the alt-right. and in the end we need anyone we can get to stand against white supremacy. I know its a double standard. but we really have to be the better person.

Moderates are kind of by default ok with white supremacy, not really much to expect from them.

Can someone retrace why and how the term "Antifa" suddenly rose to prominence after Charlottesville? Like - leftextremists called themselves Antifa for decades here in germany but it was never really thing in the US. And then, suddenly, everyone is Antifa and they are some big, new threat worth talking about? Like...the US does not have a problem with left-wing extremism. Giving the few people using protests as an excuse to destroy stuff the term "Antifa" as if they are a huge, organized left-extremist terror group hellbent on overthrowing the state is ludicrous.

Am I completely wrong suspecting that it probably comes from some alt-right-forum or talk show or radio host finding a "new", scary term to describe counter-protesters and using it via the mass media to scare the general public? Like...there were people destroying property during the Women's March. Never head a single mainstream media outlet using the term "Antifa" to describe them.

After theirs were on video killing and lynching people, they needed a convenient target/weapon to show moderates and use against the left. Being masked and dressed in black made them visually compelling as villains (as opposed to the unafraid to show their faces white supremacists) and the unfortunate fact that a many of them actually are just there to cause problems made it easy for the more intellectual progressive to decry them.

 

[SomTervo]

Pretty painful, but isn't his point that the term "antifa" has been demonised so much that people perceive it like a hipster disruptive organisation? Like i sort of get that.

 

[Chichikov]

Still the same despicable ideology that uses violence to promote its goals. Just like Nazis or Islamists.

So in your mind anyone who doesn't stick to strict non-violence is on the same moral footing as the Nazis or ISIS?

Can someone retrace why and how the term "Antifa" suddenly rose to prominence after Charlottesville? Like - leftextremists called themselves Antifa for decades here in germany but it was never really thing in the US. And then, suddenly, everyone is Antifa and they are some big, new threat worth talking about? Like...the US does not have a problem with left-wing extremism. Giving the few people using protests as an excuse to destroy stuff the term "Antifa" as if they are a huge, organized left-extremist terror group hellbent on overthrowing the state is ludicrous.

Am I completely wrong suspecting that it probably comes from some alt-right-forum or talk show or radio host finding a "new", scary term to describe counter-protesters and using it via the mass media to scare the general public? Like...there were people destroying property during the Women's March. Never head a single mainstream media outlet using the term "Antifa" to describe them.

The right-wing media wanted to talk about anything other than the fact that a bunch of neo-nazis walk down American streets and that the president seem to struggle to talk against them. Then people who are overly concerned with seeming impartial toward "both sides" gladly jumped on their bullshit.
Antifa in the US is pretty small, decentralized, disorganized and mostly non-violent. But hey, if we can paint of picture of crazies on both sides we can talk about "polarization" and "rising anger" rather than the fact that we have big part of our political system pretty much enabling white supremacists.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Any group that not only condones, but encourages violence and property smashing at every turn they can should reasonably be labeled a terrorist group.

Punch Nazis all you want but do it in self defense. Don't be the aggressor. It hurts your cause more than helps it.

A Nazi march is an act of aggression in itself. Punching Nazis is pro-active self defence.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

"Vegan ISIS"?

Noah handing them folks some new boogeymen terminology with soundbites and everything. Good one.

 

[Osahi]

As someone who grew up in Apartheid SA, you'd think Trevor would have stronger views against coddling fascist movements calling for a white ethnostate.

He's not coddling them at all. He is (rightfully) arguing violence is not the answer, because it can be used against you and puts your message in the wrong light. I mean, even here in Belgium you have rightwing Twitter-people screaming 'but the antifa!!', and it drowns out the criticism against ACTUAL Nazi's. It's offcourse a distraction tactic, but the thing is, it works.

If you fight for a cause, and especially if you fight against the worst of the bunch, you have to make sure you're above your oponnent in any way. Not resorting to violence and vandalism is just that. You only give your oponnents an argument to hide behind.

 

[Shito]

So in your mind anyone who doesn't stick to strict non-violence is on the same moral footing as the Nazis or ISIS?

Yes?! Do we even need to dispute this point? I mean...

terrorism
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

 

[sasliquid]

Yes?! Do we even need to dispute this point? I mean...

Is all terrorism equally bad then?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Yes?! Do we even need to dispute this point? I mean...

lol wow

 

[Xando]

So in your mind anyone who doesn't stick to strict non-violence is on the same moral footing as the Nazis or ISIS?

If you use violence to promote your political or ideological beliefs yes.
If you have to use violence to get your message out you are not one inch better.

 

[Shito]

Is all terrorism equally bad then?

lol wow

I can return the same "oh wow" to your ideas, guys. ^^

 

[Bastables]

Still the same despicable ideology that uses violence to promote its goals. Just like Nazis or Islamists.

What does the antifa attacking the police and destroying whole neighborhoods to as they call it „fight the system" have to do with nazis? Or are you calling the german police and the civilians which cars get burned nazis?

How many Hamburg and federal police were killed this year on 1 may 2017?

Because in the US it seems antifa have killed no Police on may the first or at the recent fascist rallies in Charlottesville. But you do have US NAZI's beating a black person next to a police station and murdering a Woman.

2016
Police said some officers, police vehicles and police buildings had been hit by rocks, bottles or bags of paint. The main issues the demonstrators were protesting against this year were rising costs of rental accommodation and the government's policy on refugees.
In the past, there has been serious violence at May 1 demonstrations in the German capital, but in the past couple of years they have tended to be calmer.

http://www.dw.com/en/police-disperse-left-wing-may-1-rallies-in-hamburg/a-18424061

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I can return the same "oh wow" to your ideas, guys. ^^

Seeing as how you've apparently shelved your mind I suppose you could.

 

[sasliquid]

I can return the same "oh wow" to your ideas, guys. ^^

So what you're saying is

Violence to protect minorties is just as bad as Violence to kill minorities

 

[shira]

Alternative funny

 

[Chasm Skulker]

I most certainly can't argue that.
Do you want to argue that?

No. I'm illustrating there's a flipside to casual hand waving. I don't write anyone a blank check just because their opponents are cartoon villains

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Can someone retrace why and how the term "Antifa" suddenly rose to prominence after Charlottesville? Leftextremists called themselves Antifa for decades here in germany but it was never really a thing in the US. And then, suddenly, everyone is Antifa and they are some big, new threat worth talking about? The US does not have a problem with left-wing extremism. Giving the few people using protests as an excuse to destroy stuff the term "Antifa" as if they are a huge, organized left-extremist terror group hellbent on overthrowing the state is ludicrous.

Am I completely wrong suspecting that it probably comes from some alt-right-forum or talk show or radio host finding a "new", scary term to describe counter-protesters and using it via the mass media to scare the general public? Like...there were people destroying property during the Women's March. Never heard a single mainstream media outlet using the term "Antifa" to describe them.

Sort of. 'Antifa' have been the go-to boogeyman of the alt-right for a while now, a means of self-legimisation by providing an active 'threat', because they are quite aware of the power that violence has to the image of an ideology. Hell, there's been reports of these people dressing up as Antifa in order to fuel that image.

And trust me, this image of (American) Antifa as highly violent and a threat to (prior to Charlottesville) peaceful right wing protesters has its purchase. I've a friend in Singapore who, by way of another friend of his with a much more active interest in US politics, gained a lot of his understanding of the concept through that lens. Then I told him about the Trump supporter who actually shot someone at a University protest, and he has since re-evaluated that stance.

 

[Morat]

If you think the "antifa" definition is just "exaggerated bullshit from the right wing propaganda" you are really deluding yourself: this is a very narrow vision to have. I would advise you to learn what the antifa movements did and are still doing in Europe.
Extremism is just as bad with the left than it is with the right.

This is a barefaced lie.

 

[Bastables]

If you use violence to promote your political or ideological beliefs yes.
If you have to use violence to get your message out you are not one inch better.

Yeah "you are" better using violence against facists because Mussolini was hung up on a roof and Hitler ended up covered in petrol on fire in a ditch, the fuckheads

 

[Morat]

If you use violence to promote your political or ideological beliefs yes.
If you have to use violence to get your message out you are not one inch better.

You realise literally every movement that has stood for the expansion of rights/liberty/law has used violence in one form or another?

 

[Xando]

How many Hamburg and federal police were killed this year on 1 may 2017?

Because in the US it seems antifa have killed no Police on may the first or at the recent fascist rallies in Charlottesville. But you do have US NAZI's beating a black person next to a police station and murdering a Woman.


Police said some officers, police vehicles and police buildings had been hit by rocks, bottles or bags of paint. The main issues the demonstrators were protesting against this year were rising costs of rental accommodation and the government's policy on refugees.
In the past, there has been serious violence at May 1 demonstrations in the German capital, but in the past couple of years they have tended to be calmer.

http://www.dw.com/en/police-disperse-left-wing-may-1-rallies-in-hamburg/a-18424061

Thankfully none have been killed thanks to police shutting everything down before it can start. Look at the G20 protests. Antifa was so dangerous police had to leave a district of 50k people because they were under attack by them. Police only ever entered the district again after counter terrorism special forces (with flashbangs and assault rifles in use)cleared the rooftops of antifa protestors.

Yeah "you are" better using violence against facists because Mussolini was hung up on a lamppost and Hitler ended up covered in petrol on fire in a ditch, the fuckheads

If you don’t know the difference between war and burning civilian cars or attack police i don‘t think this discussion is worth having

You realise literally every movement that has stood for the expansion of rights/liberty/law has used violence in one form or another?

That’s not true. Look at east germany for example

 

[Osahi]

Yeah "you are" better using violence against facists because Mussolini was hung up on a lamppost and Hitler ended up covered in petrol on fire in a ditch, the fuckheads

That's war. One they started too.

Also, I'd rather have seen Hitler (who killed himself btw) and Mussolini captured and tried. Mob rule is never the right answer.

 

[Oersted]

One side burns cars.

One side uses cars to drive into people.

Both sides are the same and the latter has very fine people among them.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Just an excuse. They would have taken power anyway due to the state other countries left Germany in after WWI. Hitler took over on the promise of revitalizing Germany's place in the world.

To deny the militant lefts part in Hitler's rise to power is blatant historic revisionism. There was civil war in the streets. At that point the German population was ready to elect anyone that would bring order. Hitler won the populist war of the late Weimar republic exploiting the lefts ever ongoing disarray and lack of organisation.

Instead of creating some mythical nostalgic image of heroic antifa fighters that tried to nip the biggest criminal of Germany's history in the bud, the far left would be better served to recognize the true nature of the militant leftist squads that eroded any semblance of political credibility the Weimar republic government ever had.

Violent behaviour in the name of politics is never an altruistic venture. At best it's self defense, and to be brutally honest: the antifa of today doesn't need to make heroes out of the squads of criminals that roamed Germany back then. All it needs to justify its existence is to point at the fascist holding power in the white house.

 

[Kinyou]

has he heard of world war II

This equation of antifa and world war 2 soldiers doesn't really make sense.

A more fitting comparison would be the open clashes on the street between Nazis and communists during Hitlers rise to power which were then used by Hitler to fuel his propaganda.

I believe that's the argument Noah is making

 

[SilentRob]

Thanks for the answers!

If you think the "antifa" definition is just "exaggerated bullshit from the right wing propaganda" you are really deluding yourself: this is a very narrow vision to have. I would advise you to learn what the antifa movements did and are still doing in Europe.
Extremism is just as bad with the left than it is with the right.

I live in a neighborhood in Berlin heavily influenced by the Antifa - and they are welcomed by most people living here, because they are a big political force fighting gentrification and the eviction of local residents in favor of wealthier people coming in from the outside. They occupy a big house just a few streets down from where I live and trying to evict them didn't only lead to a pretty big uproar but the attempted eviction also turned out to be illegal.

So, yeah. Might wanna learn what the Antifa movement is doing right now in Europe before spouting this nonsense.

 

[MotionBlue]

has he heard of world war II

Equating the current political climate to the holocaust and WW2 is disingenuous and insulting to the victims.

Yeah "you are" better using violence against facists because Mussolini was hung up on a lamppost and Hitler ended up covered in petrol on fire in a ditch, the fuckheads

You do realize that in both cases, the power vacuum was filled by another dictator. That both deaths only enforced the cult of personality with their respective parties.

 

[Chichikov]

If you use violence to promote your political or ideological beliefs yes.
If you have to use violence to get your message out you are not one inch better.

The CIvil Rights and the women's suffrage movements used way more violence than Antifa ever did.
You think they're not one inch better than Nazis or ISIS?

No. I'm illustrating there's a flipside to casual hand waving. I don't write anyone a blank check just because their opponents are cartoon villains

You're not illustrating shit, you're talking in vague generalities.
Stop beating around the bush, you think that white supremacists are cartoon villains conjured by casual hand waving?

 

[MrMysterio]

Pretty misguided to say Antifa in Europe is comparable to Nazi groups, especially while the NSU trial is still ongoing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Underground?wprov=sfla1

 

[theignoramus]

What is Trevor Noah's opinion on the ANC and their actions under apartheid?