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Damn activist judges attacking the Patriot Act

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P

Pimpwerx

Member
Source: Yahoo! News

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge on Wednesday found unconstitutional a part of the United States' anti-terror Patriot Act that allows the FBI (news - web sites) to demand customer records from businesses without court approval.

U.S. District Judge Victor Marreo ruled in favor of the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites), which challenged the power the FBI (news - web sites) has to demand confidential financial records from companies as part of terrorism investigations.

The ruling was the latest blow to the Bush administration's anti-terrorism policies.

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) ruled that terror suspects being held in places like Guantanamo Bay can use the American judicial system to challenge their confinement. That ruling was a defeat for the president's assertion of sweeping powers to hold "enemy combatants" indefinitely after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The ACLU sued the Department of Justice (news - web sites), arguing that part of the Patriot legislation violated the constitution because it authorizes the FBI to force disclosure of sensitive information without adequate safeguards.

The judge agreed, stating that the provision "effectively bars or substantially deters any judicial challenge."

Under the provision, the FBI did not have to show a judge a compelling need for the records and it did not have to specify any process that would allow a recipient to fight the demand for confidential information.
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Just like those damned activist judges that helped the civil rights movement, another crackpot judge has deemed part of the Patriot Act illegal. Personally, I think the name of the bill alone is insulting, but looks like one of the legs is gonna be chopped down. Hopefully the whole deck of cards goes with it, b/c the Patriot Act is a hit to civil liberties. I don't want the government snooping on me, not even if it supposedly makes us more secure. It's a fucking sham pushed by the people when they were still shellshocked from 9/11. This story is only 20 minutes old, so hopefully a more detailed report is soon to follow. Discuss. PEACE.

EDIT: +1 for the ACLU. :)
 
M

MrPing1000

Member
Was wondering when this was going to happen. I'm still amazed the Patriot Act passed, people getting blinded by fear i guess
 
E

Ecrofirt

Member
Pimpwerx said:
Source: Yahoo! News



Just like those damned activist judges that helped the civil rights movement, another crackpot judge has deemed part of the Patriot Act illegal. Personally, I think the name of the bill alone is insulting, but looks like one of the legs is gonna be chopped down. Hopefully the whole deck of cards goes with it, b/c the Patriot Act is a hit to civil liberties. I don't want the government snooping on me, not even if it supposedly makes us more secure. It's a fucking sham pushed by the people when they were still shellshocked from 9/11. This story is only 20 minutes old, so hopefully a more detailed report is soon to follow. Discuss. PEACE.

EDIT: +1 for the ACLU. :)
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I don't understand.. Shouldn't you be happy that a judge found part of it illegal since you want it gone?
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
I think there are probably only about 4 people on this forum for whom the term "activist judges" is anything but a sarcastic remark. Duane here ain't one of 'em.
 
M

Makura

Member
The Patriot act is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented pieces of legislation ever. It should be made permanent.
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
LOL! Sorry about that. I was being sarcastic. I find the term "activist judge" to be pretty demeaning of people who oppose stupid laws. I'll be happier than a pig in shit if the PatAct is ruled unconstitutional. And I appreciate the judges who display enough common sense to see through a thinly-veiled swipe at personal freedom. This damned text isn't very good at conveying sarcasm. That and I think I made a meal of the original post. :lol PEACE.
 
H

happyfunball

Member
I totally agree Makura!

Calling that thing the "Patriot" Act is an extreme misrepresentation. I can only believe a fool would think that is patriotic.....oh wait, nevermind ;)
 
C

Cool

Member
The Patriot Act's name itself is rather ironic. It hardly goes along with the freedoms that this country was founded on. It's basically this huge invasion where if you say something at the wrong time at the wrong place you can be accused of being a criminal or terrorist. It's ridiculous.


<exaggeration>
GUY AT STORE: BUSH SUX.


LOL UR A TERRORIST WE'RE GOING TO ARREST U THUS KEEPING AMERICA SAFER BECUZ U MAY BE A TERRORIST LOL.
</exaggeration>
 
N

Ned Flanders

Banned
I don't think the term "activist judge" is necessarily dsimissable, especially considering some of the rulings I've heard about coming out of the 9th district court. But I am in opposition to the bulk of the Patriot Act, so I see this as a good thing.
 
S

Saturnman

Banned
Ned Flanders said:
I don't think the term "activist judge" is necessarily dsimissable, especially considering some of the rulings I've heard about coming out of the 9th district court. But I am in opposition to the bulk of the Patriot Act, so I see this as a good thing.
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But what they really mean is liberal judges, judges ruling in favor of far reaching cases changing the status quo. A judge ruling to keep the death penalty legal in Texas is not any less of an 'activist' if he is strongly for capital punishment.
 
F

Flynn

Member
Saturnman said:
But what they really mean is liberal judges, judges ruling in favor of far reaching cases changing the status quo. A judge ruling to keep the death penalty legal in Texas is not any less of an 'activist' if he is strongly for capital punishment.
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Excellent point.

The right is great at taking words with positive meanings, like liberal and activist and using them as four-letter words.
 
E

explodet

Member
Flynn said:
The right is great at taking words with positive meanings, like liberal and activist and using them as four-letter words.
Click to expand...
RNC said:
Who is John Edwards? A disingenuous, unaccomplished liberal and friend to personal injury trial lawyers."
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The Daily Show said:
You've really got to hand it to the Bush-Cheney team; they're the only campaign that could turn the word 'friend' into an insult."
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:D
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
And here is Scalia now claiming that certain issues are just too fundamental for the courts to handle. Sure, it's a good thing when the results are good, like in Brown v. Board of Education, but otherwise...

Like someone here said, it seems like he's just pissy about the results whenever he's in the minority.
 
L

LizardKing

Member
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says he believes "abstract moralizing" has led the American judicial system into a quagmire, and that matters such as abortion and assisted suicide are "too fundamental" to be resolved by judges.
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"What I am questioning is the propriety, indeed the sanity, of having value-laden decisions such as these made for the entire society ... by judges," Scalia said on Tuesday during an appearance at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.
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I completely agree, which is why I'm pro-choice and for people right to choose assisted suicide. Also why I wish to allow gays to marry. This is coming from Scalia though? hmmm.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Makura said:
The Patriot act is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented pieces of legislation ever. It should be made permanent.
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You're absolutely right. Who needs their civil liberties protected in law. We can TRUST law enforcement to behave!
 
M

Manabanana

Member
MrPing1000 said:
Was wondering when this was going to happen. I'm still amazed the Patriot Act passed, people getting blinded by fear i guess
Click to expand...

No, they put it through congress on the same bill as Amber Alert (a system that helps find missing children), so if anyone voted against it they'd be like "Oh, j00 h8 teh kiddiez?" The thing is also forever long, so I'm sure no one in congress actually read it. They just didn't want kids to get kidnapped and raped.
 
D

Drinky Crow

Banned
Scalia's a REAL legal conservative -- a strict Constitutionalist who believes that the law should not be changed or interpreted to suit the needs of a specific group, and that less legislation is better. Sometimes, that's good, such as when discriminatory laws or those that codify specific moral credos are specifically rejected; and sometimes that's bad, such as in the case of civil rights.

Again, it bears noting that todays pulpiteering Fundamentalist Christian wackos and pompus public moralizers are NOT conservatives, and are in fact very liberal/radical in their own right: they want to transform our free country from an open, tolerant Deist-founded democratic society into a imperialist Christian state with laws derived not from the discussion of (and emphasis on) essential human liberties but from their interpretation of the Bible and their own sense of righteousness.

You can bet that Scalia, crazy as he often is, doesn't support THAT.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Drinky Crow said:
Scalia's a REAL legal conservative -- a strict Constitutionalist who believes that the law should not be changed or interpreted to suit the needs of a specific group, and that less legislation is better. Sometimes, that's good, such as when discriminatory laws or those that codify specific moral credos are specifically rejected; and sometimes that's bad, such as in the case of civil rights.

Again, it bears noting that todays pulpiteering Fundamentalist Christian wackos and pompus public moralizers are NOT conservatives, and are in fact very liberal/radical in their own right: they want to transform our free country from an open, libertarian-minded Deist-founded democratic society into a imperialist Christian state with laws derived not from the discussion of essential liberties but from their interpretation of the Bible and their own sense of righteousness.

You can bet that Scalia, crazy as he often is, doesn't support THAT.
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Wanna bet?

Antonin Scalia said:
The mistaken tendency to believe that a democratic government, being nothing more than the composite will of its individual citizens, has no more moral power or authority than they do as individuals has adverse effects in other areas as well. It fosters civil disobedience, for example, which proceeds on the assumption that what the individual citizen considers an unjust law—even if it does not compel him to act unjustly—need not be obeyed. St. Paul would not agree. “Ye must needs be subject,” he said, “not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.” For conscience sake. The reaction of people of faith to this tendency of democracy to obscure the divine authority behind government should not be resignation to it, but the resolution to combat it as effectively as possible.
("God's Justice and Ours", First Things, May 2002)
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Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about a supreme justice who cites the ultimate authority in American Law as something other than the United States Consitution, or the states who ratify it, or the people. :p

BTW, you misused "liberal" in "very liberal/radical".
 
K

kablooey

Member
maharg said:
"the divine authority behind government" omg. What is this, 16th century england?
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Heh. I sometimes wonder if we should change the country's name to the United States of Puritania?
 
D

Drinky Crow

Banned
Sweet Jesus, Hito, I didn't know he was a Bible nut. Everything I've read about him characterizes him as a strict Constitutionalist. Ouch. He's utterly freakin' loopy.
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
Damn Hito, nice quote. That solidifies my disdain for Scalia. I don't think anyone should mix religion and law. That's dangerous, DANGEROUS territory. I guess he doesn't have a problem with civil disobedience when it's driven by ancient text and the word of St. Paul. o_O I hope to never read any of this bull in a case ruling. The government has a restraining order against religion. It's not to get with 100ft of any government building. :D PEACE.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Makura said:
The Patriot act is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented pieces of legislation ever. It should be made permanent.
Click to expand...

And I suppose you've read every page of it?
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Drinky Crow: I thought you would have caught Scalia using the slippery slope argument in his dissent of the sodomy case. Oh, and "strict constitutionalist" has become just as much of a code word as "state's rights".
 
C

captainbiotch

Banned
Everyone whines when the government gives themselves the power to peek at their porn collection, but where were they when the government was walking all over the rest of the constitution.
 
G

GG-Duo

Member
captainbiotch said:
Everyone whines when the government gives themselves the power to peek at their porn collection, but where were they when the government was walking all over the rest of the constitution.
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looking at porn.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
captainbiotch said:
Everyone whines when the government gives themselves the power to peek at their porn collection, but where were they when the government was walking all over the rest of the constitution.
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Your post would have a tad more meaning if it were a tad more specific.
 
T

Triumph

Banned
Benjamin Franklin said:
Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither freedom nor safety.
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Man. It's like he's speaking directly to our current situation.

Of course, if Benjamin Franklin were around today, he'd be called a liberal, nutjob environmentalist and a friend of France(gasp!) by our good friends on the Right. In reality, he's a Patriot, so maybe we should listen to his good wise words echoing down to us from beyond the grave and learn a thing or two from someone who was actually around when people were willing to bleed, sweat and die for true Liberty and Freedom.
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
Makura said:
The Patriot act is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented pieces of legislation ever. It should be made permanent.
Click to expand...
Thankfully, except for the clauses listed (most of which deal with the intelligence operation reform), it won't be.

SEC. 224. SUNSET.

(a) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in subsection (b), this title and the amendments made by this title (other than sections 203(a), 203(c), 205, 208, 210, 211, 213, 216, 219, 221, and 222, and the amendments made by those sections) shall cease to have effect on December 31, 2005.

(b) EXCEPTION- With respect to any particular foreign intelligence investigation that began before the date on which the provisions referred to in subsection (a) cease to have effect, or with respect to any particular offense or potential offense that began or occurred before the date on which such provisions cease to have effect, such provisions shall continue in effect.
 
C

Cool

Member
Raoul Duke said:
Man. It's like he's speaking directly to our current situation.

Of course, if Benjamin Franklin were around today, he'd be called a liberal, nutjob environmentalist and a friend of France(gasp!) by our good friends on the Right. In reality, he's a Patriot, so maybe we should listen to his good wise words echoing down to us from beyond the grave and learn a thing or two from someone who was actually around when people were willing to bleed, sweat and die for true Liberty and Freedom.
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Ben Franklin PWNZ TEH W0RLD.
 
C

Culex

Banned
The Patriot Act is nice in some regards, but it gives far too much unchecked power to the government.

You can be wire-tapped without a court order.

The FBI/CIA can force a business to turn over financial and personal info without any reason. Also, that business is NEVER allowed to talk about the siezure, including to a lawyer (which is down-right fucked up!)

You can be arrested without any court order, warrent, or notice, as long as you're deemed by the FBI/law enforcement as a "person of interest".
 
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