Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

isual said:
I'll quote what my boy who did QA on the game said:

"My opinion was that it changed the pacing of the game and our made the game more like survival horror instead of an action rpg

But I think the real reason was processing issues

A lot of areas had framerate issues or would freeze completely.

And textures used to be slow to load

So I think they changed a lot of lighting to fix all of those problems".
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The thing is, 4 years into development and 2 months before release they suddenly think "oh man it feels too much like a survival horror?" With those pic/gif comparisons, it looks like there are two totally different builds of the game going on simultaneously. The top running gif looks like it's at 60 fps.
 
Hmm...

There's a bit of hyperbolic disillusionment in here. Not to say that we're not all entitled to some outrage, but once you accept that all the delicious stuff we were shown was basically a lie and indeed too good to be true, you can also move on and see that DS2 will still be a very decent looking game for what it is. The bait and switch is inexcusable and very low, but to extrapolate on that and take stabs at the quality of the entire game or lose faith completely is pretty rich.

I think how late in the game it is and our recent exposure to next-gen has coloured our perceptions a bit too much. DSII was developed in a bubble devoid of "next-gen" consoles or like specifications. Sure, PC may be the lead platform, but From's target was always going to be governed by "current-gen" machines.

The reality of the situation is that you may as well view DS2 as being developed for the same stage in "current-gen" machines' life-cycles as DS1 was.
 
En-ou said:
PC?
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epmode said:
I've seen this repeated a billion times in this thread but you'll never trick me, GAF! The PC release of Dark Souls still looks great.
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Haven't even bothered on my old laptop. From what I've read you need a special fix and the game still is an unoptimized mess in comparison of what its rendering really.

FS does Gameplay and makes up in technical skill with some really nice art direction. The engine / gfx have never been FS's strong point.
 
Garcia said:
No, of course not, I never said that. The bigger picture is showing a deep underlying problem going on here.
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You pretty much did.

pa22word said:
Yes, yes it is. It's also the 360's fault too. 8-9 year old hardware not being powerful enough to handle it is the reason why it's happening.

But that poster was referring to the PS3's split ram pool. Unlike the 360's 512 unified ram pool, the PS3 splits its 512 combined ram halfway between the RSX and general system ram, leaving designers much less options in what they can do with their ram. On 360 it's up to designers as to how they want to split that ram (general vs video), so you can (and this is a super duper watered down explanation) either have games using that ram for lots of shiny effects and little memory storage, or games with little shiny effects and lots of memory storage. It's directly why Skyrim PS3 was such a cluster fuck. Whether or not this is the reason DS2 consoles was downgraded is a mystery, however, but it's not entirely unfounded to speculate that it may be part of the cause.
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Give me a break. This isn't Red Dead or GTA or Skyrim. It's not the PS3's fault any more than it's Obama's. This falls squarely on FROM's shoulders.
 
vilmer_ said:
The thing is, 4 years into development and 2 months before release they suddenly think "oh man it feels too much like a survival horror?" With those pic/gif comparisons, it looks like there are two totally different builds of the game going on simultaneously. The top running gif looks like it's at 60 fps.
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heh. I just asked him if there's a ps4 version being built on, all he said was there's interest, but we don't know for sure.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
Yes, they're filled with grey lighting now.

VEpLxzi.jpg
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What's the point of the damn mechanic then?

Game oficially casualized.
 
AJLma said:
Have we learned which is the better performer between PS3 and 360 yet?

Gotta pick one of these up tomorrow...
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360 has better framerate, but more tearing and apparently some other lighting bugs

PS3 version has worst framerate, but no tearing as it's v-synced.
 
Comfort Jones said:
Yeah we aren't in the hyperbole zone at all now lol.
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Not really.

http://www.edge-online.com/features...reat-adventure-of-the-ps3-and-360-generation/

“I don’t think that we’re going to make it any brighter, but we do understand that there are dark areas,” Miyazoe says. “The cave is pretty much pitch black if you don’t have a torch, but that’s part of the gameplay as well. After playing it ten or 20 times, you’ll start to memorise how the path goes and then you won’t need a torch.”

And if fear over Dark Souls II’s accessibility got the better of you, just ask Miyazoe what to do if you find yourself torchless in a deep, dark place far from a bonfire. “Um, you’ll die?” he laughs. “There will be critical moments where you are forced to choose between the shield’s protection or vision, but there are other gimmicks when you know the way. There’s a stone object, which doesn’t have a name yet, but it’s a big stone face on the wall. You place an object in its mouth and it might trigger some lights to go on. So if you find yourself in the dark for hours and hours, there’s probably something you’re missing.”
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Oh he said they don't want to make it brighter thus the entire game is "casualized".

That area in the beta had more competent enemies than almost any section I can think of in Dark or Demon's Souls. I'll be pretty surprised if the game isn't harder than Dark Souls.
 
The darkness aspect was one of the most talked about new level mechanics(well, aside from tomb of giants in the first game) so to have it removed at the last minute is certainly odd. Not even mentioning the entire visual aspect of the game that is now lacking. Just a real shame unless something else is up.
 
ricochetguro said:
The darkness aspect was one of the most talked about new level mechanics(well, aside from tomb of giants in the first game) so to have it removed at the last minute is certainly odd. Not even mentioning the entire visual aspect of the game that is now lacking. Just a real shame unless something else is up.
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That's the interesting part to me, they wouldn't be talking about an entire mechanic if it was only contained in a 'vertical slice' kind of build for press only.
 
When I first saw the trailer I thought it would be impossible to have those graphics on PS3.

But then I got my hopes high, as I kept seeing footage....

...Only to have my hopes crushed :(

I don't think ill buy it, it was gonna be my last Ps3 purchase (aside from the PS+ games), and now its gone....It just lost all its "magic" for me...
 
ricardo_sousa11 said:
When I first saw the trailer I thought it would be impossible to have those graphics on PS3.

But then I got my hopes high, as I kept seeing footage....

...Only to have my hopes crushed :(

I don't think ill buy it, it was gonna be my last Ps3 purchase (aside from the PS+ games), and now its gone....It just lost all its "magic" for me...
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your lost
 
ricardo_sousa11 said:
When I first saw the trailer I thought it would be impossible to have those graphics on PS3.

But then I got my hopes high, as I kept seeing footage....

...Only to have my hopes crushed :(

I don't think ill buy it, it was gonna be my last Ps3 purchase (aside from the PS+ games), and now its gone....It just lost all its "magic" for me...
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Man.

This thread.

These posts.

If a bit of visual flair and a newly introduced mechanic that's hardly integral to the game is Dark Souls' "magic" to you, then... Yeah. No words; no nice ones, anyway.
 
I really hope like everyone has said that this is just Console footage and not PC footage. There's a 1 month delay so hopefully the PC release will have the lighting and what not.
 
Grief.exe said:
iP836RpuSgFa7.gif
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Perfect.

PC will be fine. There's no reason to be so fucking pessimistic over it. As someone mentioned earlier you need to set up the lighting to bake it anyway. It's not entirely an on / off switch, but it's not like everything needs to be fucking re-lit by hand. Torch mechanics can still exist in console land too, it's just significantly less relevant now - or at least it's looking that way.

Also, the comment on how it has / had a more survival horror vibe...I'd honestly be ok with that, in fact I welcome it with regards to a tonal / atmospheric context. As long as it's functioning mechanically as we would want it - and it's looking like such is the case.
 
EatinOlives said:
Yep, and then we can hound EpicNameBro for his answer as to why there's the lighting downgrade.
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And then he will try to justify the lighting downgrade with some pointless arguments and excuses. And after that my respect for him will decline and I see his reputation suffering from what he just said when I slowly realize that he has become just one of Namco's marketing tools.

(I hope not)
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
PS3 version, January 2014:
darksouls2ps3gameplayg5oje.png


PS3 version, retail build:
finala4pzm9.png



Yeah, it looks like garbage.

nojwxyusk7.gif
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No more excuses - the truth is right here. This image doesn't show the enormous amount of texture downgrade from the reveal demo which is widespread over that entire stage, but the lighting change and its inferiorities are here.

(Keep in mind it is completely pointless even lighting the torch so to most players it will be presented dull and grey, as will the next room, which will look a whole lot worse.)
 
Krusenstern said:
And then he will try to justify the lighting downgrade with some pointless arguments and excuses. And after that my respect for him will decline and I see his reputation suffering from what he just said when I slowly realize that he has become just one of Namco's marketing tools.

(I hope not)
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Sounds like your mind is made up already.
 
pa22word said:
Please actually read what I posted instead of drive by posting console warrior bullshit.
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Console warrior. Nice. I'm just as disappointed by the downgrades as the next fan, but to state that the problem stems from the limitations of the PS3 (or 360) is nothing more than blind speculation with no basis in fact. I welcome proof to the contrary. From has a track record of releasing games with technical issues; until proven otherwise, that's about the best speculation we have: a little bit poo on all platforms thanks to From.
 
Krusenstern said:
And then he will try to justify the lighting downgrade with some pointless arguments and excuses. And after that my respect for him will decline and I see his reputation suffering from what he just said when I slowly realize that he has become just one of Namco's marketing tools.
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I still have hope for ENB. But a lot of these content creators that made their name with Dark Souls probably want the hype and interest in Dark Souls 2 to continue so they can still make videos and people will watch them.

If he does say it's due to a shift in the gameplay direction.... I'm going to be extremely worried about the PC version because the dull as fuck lighting will be present there as well.
 
It's either going to be a technical issue or they're going to say the torch gameplay wasn't working out blah blah blah.

Either way the solution is definitely inadequate. If it's a tech issue then it's just sheer incompetence that they've realized it this late in the game. I know delaying the game would have been a huge deal but sometimes it's the right thing to do. It clearly wasn't entirely ready.

If it's a design choice then they could have fixed the problem in so many better/different ways instead of just butchering the entire look of the game by gutting the lighting engine.

Can't wait to hear the rationalization behind this mess though. It's certainly going to be interesting!
 
I don't even think they have to be paid to be wrong. It's fairly common that every new high profile game ends up being GOTY at first and garbage a few months later. A game as deep as a Souls game needs a lot more time to form elaborate opinions and think if it really is better than the previous game or not.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I feel like it's weird to claim that half a game you played is better than your billion playthroughs of the first one, like I've seen happen.
 
So there were some who actually thought the ps360 version would look like the reveal?

Have you actually seen a FROMsoft game before? Have you ever been to a place called Blighttown?

SMH. The real world people... Come back.
 
Clockwork5 said:
So there were some who actually thought the ps360 version would look like the reveal?

Have you actually seen a FROMsoft game before? Have you ever been to a place called Blighttown?

SMH. The real world people... Come back.
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I'm pretty sure if a company shows footage of the game running on the consoles and claims its the game people might get excited and expect that in the product.


I DONT KNOW I GUESS THATS FUCKING CRAZY or something.
 
Clockwork5 said:
So there were some who actually thought the ps360 version would look like the reveal?

Have you actually seen a FROMsoft game before? Have you ever been to a place called Blighttown?

SMH. The real world people... Come back.
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You do know people played that demo on PS3s during expos/trade shows, don't you?
 
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