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Dark Souls |OT3| This thread moves faster than the Blighttown framerate

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tc farks

Member
Need some advice from the Dark Souls braintrust.

Just defeated S&O (on the 1st try no less), and am at the bonfire upstairs. I have over 50,000 souls and I was thinking of leveling up, but as a sorcerer my next step should be to not leave Anor Lando, even after I grab this Lordvessel, but go to Duke's Archives and play through Big Hat Logan's story correct? So I should just rock on with these souls in hand so I can buy all his spells. And doing his story doesn't require me to face the boss yet right?

Also, my INT is at 38 but my END is sorely lacking at 16. Should I keep pumping up INT to get to 44 for the Crystal Soul Spear?

1 last thing, after doing all this with Logan, do his spells transfer over to Griggs to sell?
 
Yeah, the perks are pretty naff and the online portion is a copy and paste of another item. Now compare that to the Way of White.

Winner? Dragon by a mile.

Well, yeah, but then, the WoW didn't waste development time on items and a stage that pretty much exists just for it.
 
If I read the ring right, will it make me more "nimble" in heavy armor?

Well, not as you phrased it, but it increases your equip load so you can equip heavier armor and weapons without being encumbered. You can still exceed the encumbrance limit, but it raises the ceiling, as you will.

Also, where are you getting this lore?!?
Item descriptions on Havel's ring, the key to his tower, and his armor and weapons (you'll get those later in the game).
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
If I read the ring right, will it make me more "nimble" in heavy armor?

Also, where are you getting this lore?!?

The ring increases your maximum equip weight by 40%, giving you significantly more leeway in terms of equipment.

The lore comes from the wonderful word of item descriptions. If you're not terribly enthused by the prospect of spending hours combing through your inventory reading them, I compiled lots of the info contained in them into a pair of posts once upon a time.

You probably don't want to read those until you've beaten the game, though.

Well, yeah, but then, the WoW didn't waste development time on items and a stage that pretty much exists just for it.

Calling the development time spent on Ash Lake wasted? I think them's fighting words.
 
If Intelligence casters are allowed to have 20 Homing Crystal Soul Mass spells (NG+), FAITH users are allowed to have 6 WoGs! One hit from a strong crystal soul mass, and it can take you out.

WoG is the best PvP spell in the game for Faith users. I usually reserve it for end of fight situations, once I get them weak though other means. If they start using Estus, its wrath time.

My current invasion loadout is WoG x2, Great Heal (or Replenishment depending on Chaos Blade usage), and Vow of Silence. Chaos Blade +5, +10 Humanity. Ring of the firstborn, Darkmoon Crown, Bloodshield +15.

I love Vow of Silence.. people don't expect it.

Didn't know anyone else was repping the Chaos Blade. I use it on my newest DEX build and it's an absolute beast, HP loss and all.
 
Calling the development time spent on Ash Lake wasted? I think them's fighting words.

Hey, it's a pretty level, but it's also very short and empty and that time could have been spent on other things.

I'm also still a little bitter about my horrendous experience climbing down and back up that fucking tree.
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
My first time in Izalith I clipped through the ground at one point and fell to my death in a grey void. So it effectively already has invisible bottomless pits.
 

elty

Member
Need some advice from the Dark Souls braintrust.

Just defeated S&O (on the 1st try no less), and am at the bonfire upstairs. I have over 50,000 souls and I was thinking of leveling up, but as a sorcerer my next step should be to not leave Anor Lando, even after I grab this Lordvessel, but go to Duke's Archives and play through Big Hat Logan's story correct? So I should just rock on with these souls in hand so I can buy all his spells. And doing his story doesn't require me to face the boss yet right?

Also, my INT is at 38 but my END is sorely lacking at 16. Should I keep pumping up INT to get to 44 for the Crystal Soul Spear?

1 last thing, after doing all this with Logan, do his spells transfer over to Griggs to sell?

I won't hold the 50K souls. Duke Archive has a mandatory death (so your soul is most likely non recoverable unless you use a ring of sacrifice). Enemy in the Archive hits hard, so just spend them.
 

malfcn

Member
Don't know what the hell I am doing now. About a 33-34 now. Killed the Capri and one or two black nights. Basically running around either doing suicide runs when I see a corpse with treasure, or farming here or there. I know there is another bell to ring, but just a bit lost. Is there a way to re-spec, or is it pointless because of farming ability, and diminishing returns.
 
Don't know what the hell I am doing now. About a 33-34 now. Killed the Capri and one or two black nights. Basically running around either doing suicide runs when I see a corpse with treasure, or farming here or there. I know there is another bell to ring, but just a bit lost. Is there a way to re-spec, or is it pointless because of farming ability, and diminishing returns.

Go back to Capra. Just before the fog door, take a right down the stairs.
 

tc farks

Member
Damn. I got the Fire Keeper Soul back from Knight Laurtec. Then absent-mindedly upgraded my estus flask. No Firelink Shrine bonfire for me.

I placed the Lordvessel and warped back to Anor Lando so I can go deal with the Duke's Archives and Crystal Cave. Where do I go after that? New Londo?
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
Need some advice from the Dark Souls braintrust.

Just defeated S&O (on the 1st try no less), and am at the bonfire upstairs. I have over 50,000 souls and I was thinking of leveling up, but as a sorcerer my next step should be to not leave Anor Lando, even after I grab this Lordvessel, but go to Duke's Archives and play through Big Hat Logan's story correct? So I should just rock on with these souls in hand so I can buy all his spells. And doing his story doesn't require me to face the boss yet right?

Also, my INT is at 38 but my END is sorely lacking at 16. Should I keep pumping up INT to get to 44 for the Crystal Soul Spear?

1 last thing, after doing all this with Logan, do his spells transfer over to Griggs to sell?

You need to
place the Lordvessel with either Frampt or Kaathe
before you get a chance to hit up the Archives. If you're an Int build I'd aim to go all the way to 50, the spell you get that requires 50 Int is pretty neat and the Tin Crystallization Catalyst doesn't hit diminishing returns on MagAdjust increases until somewhere around 60.

What's your overall Soul Level? My immediate reaction is that your Endurance should probably be higher than that, but if you're comfortable with your equip burden and aren't running out of Stamina all the time there's no urgent need to pump it. If you've been neglecting Vitality I'd prioritize that over pumping Endurance. Personally I like to be sitting around the 30 Vitality mark at that point in the game for a fairly comfortable 1100 base HP.

If your Strength isn't at least 16 you'll probably want to aim to get it there sooner rather than later. The Moonlight Greatsword has a 16 Strength requirement and as an Int build you're probably going to want to be using it. It's really a pretty swell weapon, though its Weight of 6 may necessitate the Endurance pumping you're considering depending on the rest of your load-out. After hitting 16 Strength putting Dexterity to 14 qualifies you for Avelyn, which is excellent but probably a bit less useful for an Int build than it is for most other builds.

Don't know what the hell I am doing now. About a 33-34 now. Killed the Capri and one or two black nights. Basically running around either doing suicide runs when I see a corpse with treasure, or farming here or there. I know there is another bell to ring, but just a bit lost. Is there a way to re-spec, or is it pointless because of farming ability, and diminishing returns.

No re-specs, all stat increases are final. Unlike Demon's Souls there's no way to lose Soul Levels. Most people usually start a second character fresh rather than take their initial character into NG+ for that reason. I certainly did. First characters tend to turn out to be a bit of a mess. I know I'm a little embarrassed looking at the stat spread of my first character. I even pumped Resistance for god's sake.

Damn. I got the Fire Keeper Soul back from Knight Laurtec. Then absent-mindedly upgraded my estus flask. No Firelink Shrine bonfire for me.

I placed the Lordvessel and warped back to Anor Lando so I can go deal with the Duke's Archives and Crystal Cave. Where do I go after that? New Londo?

At that point in the game you need to
get the four Lord Souls in Duke's Archive, New Londo, the Tomb of Giants, and Lost Izalith. The order in which you get them doesn't matter, though if you haven't gotten the Cast Light spell then there's an item in Izalith that helps a lot in the Tomb of Giants. Izalith is accessed through the Demon's Ruins and the Tomb is access through the Catacombs, if you haven't found them yet. They're in the areas that were previously blocked off by the golden fog doors that you may or may not have encountered already.
 

tc farks

Member
I'm up to Level 69. I have the Ring of Favor and Protection on now so that helps. VIT at 25.

I've read about the Moonlight Greatsword and I'm gonna try. I can't get online due to my crappy WiFi so I have to go solo. I know I'm supposed to stand by the crystal and wait for him to daze himself. What's the best weapon or spell to run around and hit his tail with? Can I aim at the tip of his tail with the Soul Spear spell?
 

tc farks

Member
Btw thanks ixix

I've yet to run into these gold fog doors, besides failing at going to Duke's Archives too early. I have no idea where some of these places are, like the Catacombs.
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
I'm up to Level 69. I have the Ring of Favor and Protection on now so that helps. VIT at 25.

I've read about the Moonlight Greatsword and I'm gonna try. I can't get online due to my crappy WiFi so I have to go solo. I know I'm supposed to stand by the crystal and wait for him to daze himself. What's the best weapon or spell to run around and hit his tail with? Can I aim at the tip of his tail with the Soul Spear spell?

Pretty much what you want to do is
stand perfectly still as soon as the cutscene ends. You're directly in front of the Primordial Crystal, Seath is directly in front of you, and that's exactly where you want both of them. Seath will move toward you and lower his head to do his laser breath. As soon as he starts the animation start sprinting toward him. The breathing animation is quite long by itself, and he'll go straight into the extremely long crystal-breaking animation immediately afterward. He's sort of got three tail-tentacle things, and the one you're aiming for is the largest one directly behind him. It's the middle of the three. Aim for the tip, that's the only part that actually counts. If you don't make it fast enough just take your time. Seath's not too dangerous at all once you learn his patterns, especially if you have high Curse resistance. Wait for him to start a laser breath animation then sprint for the tail, get one hit in, then get away before he does his tail slam attack and you'll take it off eventually.

I've had the most success getting it using a fully upgraded Pyromancy Flame and Great Combustion. You can take the tail off in one or two castings quite reliably that way. Otherwise just use your strongest weapon and two-hand it. The tail doesn't really have much HP, a few good swings should be able to take it off. He's quite resistant to Magic-based attacks, and it's damned near impossible to hit it with a Soul Spear, so that's probably not a winning strategy.

Btw thanks ixix

I've yet to run into these gold fog doors, besides failing at going to Duke's Archives too early. I have no idea where some of these places are, like the Catacombs.

Catacombs is connected directly to Firelink. The entrance is a small cave down some stairs on the cliff face in the graveyard. If you go down the main path of the graveyard you'll see the stairs on your left shortly before reaching the body that holds the Zweihander.
 

malfcn

Member
Damn. I got the Fire Keeper Soul back from Knight Laurtec. Then absent-mindedly upgraded my estus flask. No Firelink Shrine bonfire for me.

I placed the Lordvessel and warped back to Anor Lando so I can go deal with the Duke's Archives and Crystal Cave. Where do I go after that? New Londo?

Wait, I shouldn't be reinforcing my flask? It gives more health, and other uses?
 

UFRA

Member
Wait, I shouldn't be reinforcing my flask? It gives more health, and other uses?

Firekeeper souls are used to upgrade your estus flasks, yes. That is what you should be using them for.

However, sometimes firekeepers will be killed by other NPC's, and you can restore the bonfire by using a firekeeper soul.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
Calm down, dude. It's a perfectly legitimate spell, and no-one said you shouldn't use it. The issue is with those that spam it like crazy as their primary tactic or last resort. It's lame. The spell needs a cool down or start-up of some sort, that's all.

Its a spell that CAN be blocked. Its not some all powerful "win" button. Ive lost plenty of times using it. If you lengthen the start up would make it virtually useless. I have to get in close, charge it up, then use it. All the while youre free to do whatever you please to me (this is also why many of the strong pyro spells are useless in PvP).

So all in all, Id be stuck with a lightning spear that has a slow start up and is easily dodge-able, emit force which suffers from the same drawbacks, force which does no damage, and a WoG that I have to walk up to you, and cast it hoping that you dont use the few seconds it takes me to charge it up as an opportunity to swing your weapon and stop me. Im sorry but that doesnt make much sense. It would make the faith build even more useless in PvP than it already is.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Ok, I'm at the bottom of blight town in the swamp. I've been all the way to ash lake (definitely not going there again anytime soon.)

Is there a fast way back to firelink near here without fighting back through that clusterfuck of a town? Also, Blighttown is full of full sets of good resist gear, holy shit.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Its a spell that CAN be blocked. Its not some all powerful "win" button. Ive lost plenty of times using it. If you lengthen the start up would make it virtually useless. I have to get in close, charge it up, then use it. All the while youre free to do whatever you please to me (this is also why many of the strong pyro spells are useless in PvP).

So all in all, Id be stuck with a lightning spear that has a slow start up and is easily dodge-able, emit force which suffers from the same drawbacks, force which does no damage, and a WoG that I have to walk up to you, and cast it hoping that you dont use the few seconds it takes me to charge it up as an opportunity to swing your weapon and stop me. Im sorry but that doesnt make much sense. It would make the faith build even more useless in PvP than it already is.

No one said two seconds. And magic is so often the lowest defense on any shield. Wish I had that shield from Demon's Souls with 100% magic resist. The problem is that WoG hits like a greatsword, staggers you like a greatsword, but is instantaneous and has a bigger radius. The point is that you can't just run up to someone and press the button, that's not balanced. So when you say that you can no longer do that, I don't see that that's unfair. I can't just run up to you and start hitting you, then I'll get hit back.

Magic is and should be like everything else; you can't just spam. Powerful pyros have to be planned. Crystal Homing has a looong cast, you can't just do it on a whim.

If you plan on using something as powerful as WoG, and want to use it without being interrupted if someone hits you, that implies you need higher poise. You're (or should be) pretty much dealing with a huge weapon in WoG, since it does tons of damage and should take time to cast. So you can either strategically pull it off, or go high poise and know it lands, anyway. This is why so many with huge weapons use huge armor, because if some annoying guy with a katana comes along, they can't afford to be staggered while they wait for their first hit to land.

There's nothing wrong in what we're suggesting. It would make WoG balanced like everything else.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Ok, I'm at the bottom of blight town in the swamp. I've been all the way to ash lake (definitely not going there again anytime soon.)

Is there a fast way back to firelink near here without fighting back through that clusterfuck of a town? Also, Blighttown is full of full sets of good resist gear, holy shit.

See that water-wheel in the distance? Go there. There's a bonfire on the way if you haven't discovered it, yet (it's pretty well hidden). Take the water wheel to the top and you'll soon be in Firelink.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
See that water-wheel in the distance? Go there. There's a bonfire on the way if you haven't discovered it, yet (it's pretty well hidden). Take the water wheel to the top and you'll soon be in Firelink.

Thanks, I'll take that. I've been looking all around and found a ton of shit, but I wanna get the hell out of here, and I'd rather not fight this spider boss yet.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
No one said two seconds. And magic is so often the lowest defense on any shield. Wish I had that shield from Demon's Souls with 100% magic resist. The problem is that WoG hits like a greatsword, staggers you like a greatsword, but is instantaneous and has a bigger radius. The point is that you can't just run up to someone and press the button, that's not balanced. So when you say that you can no longer do that, I don't see that that's unfair. I can't just run up to you and start hitting you, then I'll get hit back.

Magic is and should be like everything else; you can't just spam. Powerful pyros have to be planned. Crystal Homing has a looong cast, you can't just do it on a whim.

If you plan on using something as powerful as WoG, and want to use it without being interrupted if someone hits you, that implies you need higher poise. You're (or should be) pretty much dealing with a huge weapon in WoG, since it does tons of damage and should take time to cast. So you can either strategically pull it off, or go high poise and know it lands, anyway. This is why so many with huge weapons use huge armor, because if some annoying guy with a katana comes along, they can't afford to be staggered while they wait for their first hit to land.

There's nothing wrong in what we're suggesting. It would make WoG balanced like everything else.

Yea youre probably right.
 

malfcn

Member
Level 34 - 22 hours

Started as a Warrior, so far:

12
8
18
22
16
11
10
9

I think I accidentally gave a point to Resistance thinking it helped defense. I was tired when I read the description. *embarrass*

The size of this game, and the online elements make it feel MMORPGy.

Also, while running around the first bonfire, near the water with the Raven, I heard someone sleeping, but couldn't find them.
 

tokkun

Member
Its a spell that CAN be blocked. Its not some all powerful "win" button. Ive lost plenty of times using it. If you lengthen the start up would make it virtually useless. I have to get in close, charge it up, then use it. All the while youre free to do whatever you please to me (this is also why many of the strong pyro spells are useless in PvP).

Even when blocked it still does more than 300 damage on the shields that most people carry around, and even if you wanted to carry a CRS to sub in, the spell is so fast that you don't have time to switch. Four blocked shots of WoG will kill my SL120 character with 35 VIT.

When blocked, the spell also pushes you back, making it impossible for you to get close to the caster by approaching with your shield up due to the fast cast time. If you want to get close you need to roll, which is more than likely going to cause you to get stunlocked.

An unblocked WoG can do more damage than a swing of the BK Greataxe with 40 STR, is faster, causes better stun, and still deals huge amounts of damage when blocked. It also has a 360 degree radius, so you can't dodge behind and backstab.

If it isn't unbalanced, then I don't know what is.
 

Wool

Member
Why am I not surprised that a WoG apologist is a WoG user?

From many, many hours of PvP I can tell you that Homing Crystal is nowhere near WoG in cheese-factor. Homing Crystal is not that hard to dodge once you get used to it, and trying to get a 2nd casting off against me usually results in a backstab kill. Not to mention that its damage did get nerfed in the last patch.

WoG should have a longer startup animation on par with other spells, making it more possible to dodge. It should also not stun.

You could still use magic barrier, great magic barrier, great magic shield, or vow of silence to prevent it from getting you. Faith does not have very much going for it other than Wrath of God, now that Tranquil Walk of Peace has been completely ruined. All three of those lightning bolt miracles are slow, all of the heal miracles are slow, karmic justice has not helped me out once, and most of the other miracles are utility type things. I've probably used homeward more times than anything else.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
Even when blocked it still does more than 300 damage on the shields that most people carry around, and even if you wanted to carry a CRS to sub in, the spell is so fast that you don't have time to switch. Four blocked shots of WoG will kill my SL120 character with 35 VIT.

When blocked, the spell also pushes you back, making it impossible for you to get close to the caster by approaching with your shield up due to the fast cast time. If you want to get close you need to roll, which is more than likely going to cause you to get stunlocked.

An unblocked WoG can do more damage than a swing of the BK Greataxe with 40 STR, is faster, causes better stun, and still deals huge amounts of damage when blocked. It also has a 360 degree radius, so you can't dodge behind and backstab.

If it isn't unbalanced, then I don't know what is.
Why are we pretending that its some unavoidable, unbeatable cast? It simply isnt. And what annoys me about the complaints is the fact that the solution is to simply nerf it which would suck for faith users because there isnt much more for us offensively.

Again, you can roll away, you can block it (why are you getting hit four times by the same spell), and its not exactly a win button. People dodge my WoG constantly and Im rarely able to just run up to people and use it. Whenever I fought someone with it (with my previous build) I rarely got hit with it because I simply rolled away when I saw it winding up.

All in all, I dont like the solutions. I feel its very much avoidable and very much beatable. Nerfing it outright to me would be unfair to faith users because, as I said, we dont have dick else.
 

malfcn

Member
Tips on getting that backstab kill. I rarely get it to go.

Also, how do you get up the broken tower near the first main bonfire?

Go back to Capra. Just before the fog door, take a right down the stairs.

Thanks. Swore I tried that key after, but worked now.
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
Even when blocked it still does more than 300 damage on the shields that most people carry around, and even if you wanted to carry a CRS to sub in, the spell is so fast that you don't have time to switch. Four blocked shots of WoG will kill my SL120 character with 35 VIT.

When blocked, the spell also pushes you back, making it impossible for you to get close to the caster by approaching with your shield up due to the fast cast time. If you want to get close you need to roll, which is more than likely going to cause you to get stunlocked.

An unblocked WoG can do more damage than a swing of the BK Greataxe with 40 STR, is faster, causes better stun, and still deals huge amounts of damage when blocked. It also has a 360 degree radius, so you can't dodge behind and backstab.

If it isn't unbalanced, then I don't know what is.

But is the damage it does even through a shield a product of it dealing excessive damage in general, or is it more a product of the Magic Resistance of shields being considered an almost completely marginal stat since Magic-source damage outside of Wrath of the Gods is almost universally dodged, not blocked?

I agree that WotG spam is a problem in PvP, but at the same time I'm not overly in favor of nerfing it too hard because the Force/Emit Force/Wrath of the Gods line of spells is the only set of offensive Miracles that aren't just a direct analogue to a set of spells of another discipline in the way that the Lightning Spear and Gravelord Sword Dance line are analogues to the Soul Arrow and Firestorm line, respectively. If its cast time is increased it effectively becomes yet another Firestorm variant, and if its damage is reduced too much it ceases to even be worth an Attunement slot, and Miracles outside of weapon buffs essentially become a non-factor in PvP.

Personally I think the Miracle only hits the point of absurdity when people stockpile castings across multiple NG+'s, and if players were hard-capped at one Attunement slot and 3 castings it would be fine, or at least not any worse than any other singular damage source that is currently pumped into a do-or-die glass cannon. It's hardly an unprecedented solution, as Faith builds already face a one-slot limit on Darkmoon Blade, the Lightning Spear line, and the Gravelord Sword Dance family, so the limit is already something of a distinguishing characteristic of offense-oriented Miracles from which Wrath of the Gods, Emit Force, and Sunlight Blade are the only real exceptions. Reducing membership in that family of exceptions by one doesn't seem the least bit unreasonable to my mind, and would solve the most egregious of the issues with the spell.
 

J-Roderton

Member
I can't believe how easy the Capra Demon was. Felt like it only took a minute and a half.

I then proceeded to venture into the Depths and get myself slaughtered by the butcher.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
You could still use magic barrier, great magic barrier, great magic shield, or vow of silence to prevent it from getting you. Faith does not have very much going for it other than Wrath of God, now that Tranquil Walk of Peace has been completely ruined. All three of those lightning bolt miracles are slow, all of the heal miracles are slow, karmic justice has not helped me out once, and most of the other miracles are utility type things. I've probably used homeward more times than anything else.

TWoP completely ruined? Fighting in the swamp sucks, so does TWoP. It wasn't working before, so it was equally completely ruined before, in that case.

I get the argument of "it's the only offensive spell", but it's not really justifiable to have one overpowered spell because everything else is underpowered. About using things like VoS (which would require FAI) or anything else to specifically meet WoG users - the point is that I can meet any other build in the game, and have a fair, fun fight. I'm better against some than others. But everyone would need what you mentions to stand up to a WoG user. You can't have "A beats B, and B beats C, and C beats A, but X beats everything unless you use Y and can then beat X, but not A, B or C", especially since I don't care fighting anyone that spams WoG (they can use it, but I will just die and move on with my life.)

Why are we pretending that its some unavoidable, unbeatable cast? It simply isnt. And what annoys me about the complaints is the fact that the solution is to simply nerf it which would suck for faith users because there isnt much more for us offensively.

Again, you can roll away, you can block it (why are you getting hit four times by the same spell), and its not exactly a win button. People dodge my WoG constantly and Im rarely able to just run up to people and use it. Whenever I fought someone with it (with my previous build) I rarely got hit with it because I simply rolled away when I saw it winding up.

All in all, I dont like the solutions. I feel its very much avoidable and very much beatable. Nerfing it outright to me would be unfair to faith users because, as I said, we dont have dick else.

It is a big fraction more unavoidable than anything else we encounter in PvP. So, yes, people can still suck and telegraph me that they're casting it, or they can be good PvP players and flick it when I least expect it, in which case, good for them. The fact that it is one of the more damaging spells in the game AND is near instantaneous and thusly one of the harder things to avoid in PvP doesn't add up, is still not the worst thing. That you can chain it, when you've hit once, is what adds insult to injury.

We're not pretending it's unavoidable. We're saying it's hard to dodge and does crazy amount of damage for the risk it implies, and that it's overpowered also because it's chainable.

But is the damage it does even through a shield a product of it dealing excessive damage in general, or is it more a product of the Magic Resistance of shields being considered an almost completely marginal stat since Magic-source damage outside of Wrath of the Gods is almost universally dodged, not blocked?

In Demon's Souls there was a 100% mag res shield. There isn't one in Dark Souls. Damage will hurt if you block it, because it is made to be dodged. You first calculate the damage it would do if you weren't blocking, then subtract the percentage on your shield, so if it does 500 dmg and you have 50% block, it does 250. So the fact that there are few good shields for damage (that no one uses), combined with the already good damage it does, is another point to why it is unbalanced. If someone runs at me with the biggest weapon in the game, I can block it, it will take longer to hit, it will have longer recharge, it will be directional, easier to dodge and retaliate (you need to just get away with WoG, whereas with weapons you can roll behind your opponent), you have higher physical resistance than anything, it staggers for less. But still WoG isn't OP?
 

sixghost

Member
I think I'm getting progressively better at planning Dark Souls characters. My 1st character was a mess, my 2nd character was cool but too safe, but my 3rd character is so damn cool.

I'm using a combination of the Bandit's Knife and Lifehunt Scythe. I really focused on upgrading those two rather than dumping souls into levels, which I've found to be so much more useful.

I'm still only 40, but the character already feels ridiculous. I somehow had 11 demon titanite by the time I got to the giant blacksmith, so I was able to upgrade the lifehunt to +5 right off the bat, and it does a fucking ton with my 25ish DEX.

Using a target shield to parry everything I can, and a hornet ring+great magic weapon+bandit knife to do tons of damage on parries and backstabs. Also using the bloodshield on my back to help with the bleed effect from the lifehunt.

I'm a total fucking glass cannon, with almost no health, but that only makes the character that much more fun. S&O are going to be a bitch.

Aside from the framerate issues in spots, this game is just about perfect. Has to be one of my all time favorites at this point.
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
In Demon's Souls there was a 100% mag res shield. There isn't one in Dark Souls. Damage will hurt if you block it, because it is made to be dodged. You first calculate the damage it would do if you weren't blocking, then subtract the percentage on your shield, so if it does 500 dmg and you have 50% block, it does 250. So the fact that there are few good shields for damage (that no one uses), combined with the already good damage it does, is another point to why it is unbalanced. If someone runs at me with the biggest weapon in the game, I can block it, it will take longer to hit, it will have longer recharge, it will be directional, easier to dodge and retaliate (you need to just get away with WoG, whereas with weapons you can roll behind your opponent), you have higher physical resistance than anything, it staggers for less. But still WoG isn't OP?

I didn't say WotG isn't overpowered. I actually said the opposite. I think it needs to be altered because the practice of stacking 15 castings on a character, throwing them all at the host, and Black Crystal-ing out if they don't die is ludicrous. I just disagree that it should be nerfed outside of putting a hard limit on the number of castings, which is a limitation the developers have already employed on multiple offensive Miracles and which I feel is a viable way to limit the spell's power without turning it into Yet Another Firestorm and rendering Miracles total PvP non-starters.

I don't think the comparison between WotG and swinging a heavy weapon is really apt, because swinging a weapon consumes an infinitely-renewable resource in the form of Stamina, whereas casting WotG consumes a finite resource in the form of the number of castings. Given that, WotG should be significantly more effective than smacking somebody with a weapon, because if it wasn't it would be useless. The only problem, again, is when someone stacks WotG in tons of Attunement slots and spams it nigh-endlessly as the one and only feature of their build, which is what I think is the real issue, far moreso than the casting time or the damage.

And, truth be told, I'm not very fond of the marginalization of shields in PvP either, and would actually be entirely in favor of more abilities that are best blocked rather than dodged, as the addition of chip damage as a significant concern would elegantly increase the utility of Heal and Replenishment and go even further towards balancing out Faith builds in PvP, given that they currently are either one-trick WotG spammers, weapon-enchantment glass cannons, or next to useless.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
It's a maze. Lost 2 humanity, but found 2 more already. Lots of rats. Beware of frogs and their gas.

Why do I sometimes get random estus while running around?

The rats, like the tree people in that forest area are good for farming.

Rats for humanity and the tree people for the poison/bleed cure.
 
And, truth be told, I'm not very fond of the marginalization of shields in PvP either, and would actually be entirely in favor of more abilities that are best blocked rather than dodged, as the addition of chip damage as a significant concern would elegantly increase the utility of Heal and Replenishment and go even further towards balancing out Faith builds in PvP, given that they currently are either one-trick WotG spammers, weapon-enchantment glass cannons, or next to useless.

Honestly, I feel the opposite. I hate being pushed to HAVE to use a shield (I don't use one anyway, disadvantage be damned) and wish weapon blocks were more effective. After all, in real fights weapons can actually deflect other weapons without the user being hurt, except for smaller weapons against larger ones and things such as arrows.

From has a hard-on for the "tradtional knight", carrying shields (specifically greatshields), heavy armor and heavy weapons in this game and gives them ridiculous advantage over light armor and weapons in most cases. Like the fifty billion rare and powerful greatswords (large swords in Demon's), giving them a moveset with a stunlock and arguably the best damage/speed ratio making everyone use them. Havel's being stupidly strong, along with Giant's. Greatshield of Artorias blocking pretty much anything in the game. That kinda stuff.

Meanwhile, light armor gets no poise whatsoever even though Poise is implemented as a key game feature and they designed around you having it, gimped defense to the point of unusability in a lot of cases (Moonlight Robe), and no advantage other than light roll, which sucks compared to heavy armor + Dark Wood Grain Ring. You should like be able to swing weapons faster with light armor or something, to balance it out.

Weapon blocking is almost useless even though again, a lot of fights in real life involved weapons clashing against each other without the people on the other end magically getting hurt. They should have increased the damage reduction from weapon blocks IMO, and just made them low stability. Or even better, made it based on what you were being hit by. Say, a Katana class weapon blocks a Straight Sword/Curved Sword/Dagger/Katana, no damage is taken and stability is high. But you try to block a Ultra Greatsword class weapon with a Katana and it totally crushes your guard.
 
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