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[nomoment]

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=002728

Writing and layouts by David Lapham. Finished art by Ramon Bachs.

Remember when I said this would be the best Batman story in years? I'm still not kidding.

Check the link for even more preview art.

 

[Winged Creature]

Holy crap that looks good

 

[SD-Ness]

When is it released?

Detective Comics # 801?

 

[nomoment]

When is it released?

Detective Comics # 801?

First week of December.

 

[Willco]

This is Azzarello all over again.

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

I think I'd honestly prefer if this came out in black and white, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Winged Creature]

This is Azzarello all over again.

but it looks so much cooler!

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

this looks... beautiful. this will not fail.

 

[Willco]

but it looks so much cooler!

ONE WORD: HUSH.

this looks... beautiful. this will not fail.

DOES NO ONE REMEMBER HUSH?

 

[Winged Creature]

Damn you, Willco, damn u, for bringing back the memories of Hush. All pretty pictures with no story. Lets hope this one is good, we deserve a good batman story!!

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

ONE WORD: HUSH.



DOES NO ONE REMEMBER HUSH?

hush didnt fail so much as it didnt have that "oomph" of past jeph loeb stories. it wasnt half bad is what im trying to say.

 

[Willco]

No, it failed. Miserably. Don't even try to defend it, because you'll just look stupid.

I will never forget the day I guessed the culprit as a fucking joke, completely out the blue and such, only to learn that very day that I was right. Life is funny like that.

I'm burnt out on all the Batman hype. I'll believe it when I read it.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

No, it failed. Miserably. Don't even try to defend it, because you'll just look stupid.

I will never forget the day I guessed the culprit as a fucking joke, completely out the blue and such, only to learn that very day that I was right. Life is funny like that.

I'm burnt out on all the Batman hype. I'll believe it when I read it.

you know damn well that culprit was the doctor dude, not edward nigma. he was just thrown in there as a red herring. but whatever, i guess when millar does the same type of story with spider-man it's somehow ok.

 

[FortNinety]

I used to be a diehard David Lapham fan back in the days, so I didn't have to look at any art to be interested.

I really don't follow Batman, but I'll be picking this one up that's for sure.

About Hush...

I read a few installments last year; had a coworker lend me some issues. What I read... 2 issues... was pretty good.

So the ending was that bad? I was flipping through Wizard at a Barnes & Noble the other day and they seem to think it was awesome. But then again, it is Wizard that's talking here.

 

[Willco]

you know damn well that culprit was the doctor dude, not edward nigma. he was just thrown in there as a red herring. but whatever, i guess when millar does the same type of story with spider-man it's somehow ok.

Millar didn't jerk our chains like Loeb did. That entire run, Loeb's that is, completely ran out of steam with all the Jason Todd bullshit. Stupid things, like featuring Krypto in an issue, was absolutely retarded.

Point? Jim Lee's art rocked on Hush, but the story completely sucked. Then many a fan, including good 'ole Nomo here, hyped Azzarello's arc to death. To friggin' death! While we were reading Hush, even. It was like:

"Well, Hush might have sucked, but don't worry -- Azzarello will rescue us from this sea of mediocrity!"

And - hell! - his run, albeit not as bad, was even more forgettable than Hush!

Again, I'll believe it when I read it. Nobody has delivered on Batman in recent memory. Nobody.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Millar didn't jerk our chains like Loeb did. That entire run, Loeb's that is, completely ran out of steam with all the Jason Todd bullshit. Stupid things, like featuring Krypto in an issue, was absolutely retarded.

Point? Jim Lee's art rocked on Hush, but the story completely sucked. Then many a fan, including good 'ole Nomo here, hyped Azzarello's arc to death. To friggin' death! While we were reading Hush, even. It was like:

"Well, Hush might have sucked, but don't worry -- Azzarello will rescue us from this sea of mediocrity!"

And - hell! - his run, albeit not as bad, was even more forgettable than Hush!

Again, I'll believe it when I read it. Nobody has delivered on Batman in recent memory. Nobody.

OH DEAR LORD!!! krypto is shown for two panels and somehow that's being featured?
how where we jerked? the jason todd thing was meant to distract batman. to set him up for the kill. that's why you didnt see a jason todd with the pixie underwear and booties. batman deduced this while fighting him. and who cares what other readers say? you buy based on your own decisions.

 

[Winged Creature]

what was the last good batman story?? Its been awhile since year one.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

what was the last good batman story?? Its been awhile since year one.

you mean where everyone agrees that it's good? killing joke(after year one i might add)
parts of no man's land.
long halloween.

dark knight over metropolis (superman gives batman the kryptonite ring) least i think that's the name of it.....

 

[Willco]

Haha, that entire rebuttal reeks of the kind of desperation that stains those Episode I/II apologist threads. Or The Matrix sequels. "You just don't understand! Read my rant as I reach for an explaination when the truth is I like something that's poorly written!"

I mean, if you're going to like trash, just come out and say, "I like trash." Hell, I like Cabin Fever. It's not fine art. It's trash. I have my share of dirty pleasures in the comic book shop too; the kind of stuff I don't make public in our cool threads. But I'll set a precedent here and now. I bought the Army of Darkness comic. It's true. I said it. It's trash. But it's my trash.

Uh, and how can you base an opinion on something that's not out yet, smart guy? Did you have a copy of the Azzarello Batman arc that nobody else was privvy to? I base my purchases on the creative team and the recommendations of those I trust. Nomoment is one of those guys. Really now. C'mon!

 

[Winged Creature]

you mean where everyone agrees that it's good? killing joke(after year one i might add)
parts of no man's land.
long halloween.

dark knight over metropolis (superman gives batman the kryptonite ring) least i think that's the name of it.....

Yea those were good, forgot to mention those, havent read dark knight over metropolis though.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Haha, that entire rebuttal reeks of the kind of desperation that stains those Episode I/II apologist threads. Or The Matrix sequels. "You just don't understand! Read my rant as I reach for an explaination when the truth is I like something that's poorly written!"

I mean, if you're going to like trash, just come out and say, "I like trash." Hell, I like Cabin Fever. It's not fine art. It's trash. I have my share of dirty pleasures in the comic book shop too; the kind of stuff I don't make public in our cool threads. But I'll set a precedent here and now. I bought the Army of Darkness comic. It's true. I said it. It's trash. But it's my trash.

Uh, and how can you base an opinion on something that's not out yet, smart guy? Did you have a copy of the Azzarello Batman arc that nobody else was privvy to? I base my purchases on the creative team and the recommendations of those I trust. Nomoment is one of those guys. Really now. C'mon!

bullshit !! i havent said that hush is a great work of art. but it's not trash. not trash. and at the time, i wasnt going ga-ga over what azzarello was or wasnt going to do in batman. i was simply going to head to the comic shop and buy the issue and if i liked it (which i did)i was going to keep on reading.(like most people do)
i got news for you, 99% of the comics we read are garbage. but we still read them cause we love the genre either way. so dont come with the holier than thou attitude about what i read.

 

[Willco]

i got news for you, 99% of the comics we read are garbage. but we still read them cause we love the genre either way. so dont come with the holier than thou attitude about what i read.

Maybe 99% of the comics you read are garbage, but I don't have money to burn on that much trash. What I read is widely accepted to be the cream of the crop, with titles like Sleeper or Ex Machina or Astonishing X-Men. I'll occasionally give into the guilty pleasure, but comics are too expensive to pull that much garbage off the racks.

I never said you read trash, but don't try to defend Hush or Azzarello's arc with the kind of desperation that a lot of apologists do. You do have a tendency to defend a lot of stupid writing, or what I deem to be stupid writing, out of loyalty to DC. Fine, you like DC. Some people become so commited to brand loyalty that they can overlook very real problems with what they read. I've seen the pendulum swing both ways.

You read and post about a lot of stuff I think is awful and wouldn't pay two cents for in our weekly threads, but I never give you grief about it. A person is entitled to read what they want. If it was any other way, Spike would have long been shot by now by a mob of comic fans for his constant pimping of Street Fighter. So don't take it so damn personal.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Maybe 99% of the comics you read are garbage, but I don't have money to burn on that much trash. What I read is widely accepted to be the cream of the crop, with titles like Sleeper or Ex Machina or Astonishing X-Men. I'll occasionally give into the guilty pleasure, but comics are too expensive to pull that much garbage off the racks.

I never said you read trash, but don't try to defend Hush or Azzarello's arc with the kind of desperation that a lot of apologists do. You do have a tendency to defend a lot of stupid writing, or what I deem to be stupid writing, out of loyalty to DC. Fine, you like DC. Some people become so commited to brand loyalty that they can overlook very real problems with what they read. I've seen the pendulum swing both ways.

You read and post about a lot of stuff I think is awful and wouldn't pay two cents for in our weekly threads, but I never give you grief about it. A person is entitled to read what they want. If it was any other way, Spike would have long been shot by now by a mob of comic fans for his constant pimping of Street Fighter. So don't take it so damn personal.

i read those tittles too you know. hell, half of i put on the list weekly i dont end up buying.
i'm not defending hush or broken city because i have some brand loyalty.
i do like DC a lot better than marvel. all the books that my brothers read as kids where DC. that's what i got hooked on. i make no apoligies for it. but i do read plenty of marvel (fantastic four is my favorite....... powers. but thats not marvel)half of the time i'm griping about superman's direction or green lantern;s at the DC boards.
the reason i'm "defending" hush and broken city is because I ENJOYED THE STORIES AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THEM TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO READ A COMIC BOOK. but i'm not about to get on top of a mountain and say "this sucks and jeph loeb sucks and he shoudl, get run over by a car!!!"
that's all i'm saying. you think it's somehow wrong to like those stories, as if everyone has to think like an elitist to enjoy comics.

 

[Willco]

i read those tittles too you know. hell, half of i put on the list weekly i dont end up buying.

Uh, good for you, I guess?

i'm not defending hush or broken city because i have some brand loyalty.
i do like DC a lot better than marvel. all the books that my brothers read as kids where DC. that's what i got hooked on. i make no apoligies for it.

Honesty is always the best code.

but i do read plenty of marvel (fantastic four is my favorite....... powers. but thats not marvel)half of the time i'm griping about superman's direction or green lantern;s at the DC boards.

Fantastic Four and Powers, you say? You are true believer! All kidding aside, I don't care if you read Marvel or not. Reading only DC Comics or NOT reading DC Comics doesn't make you evil...

the reason i'm "defending" hush and broken city is because I ENJOYED THE STORIES AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THEM TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO READ A COMIC BOOK.

... but shit like this does. Why would go and recommend this when there are like, five billion better stories about Batman out there. Really. The only time you recommend something that has a gotten a notoriously mixed or negative reaction by critics and fans alike is if someone has the same tastes as you. And I would hope these people are not Nomoment, because that would make me less likely to buy Lapham's Batman!

Again, I'm not saying you're a bad person or that you have horrible tastes or that you can't read shit like JSA. I'm saying that if you're going to read stuff like Hush and someone has a problem with the writing (or any other important aspect of production), that for all intents and purposes is a very real one (such as convoluted storylines), defending it in a desperate, apologist way is not the way to go.

You know what I would've respected rather than, "OmgG krRYOpto IZ in 2 OPAn3Ls DIE FEDerMan!" Something like this...

"I agree that Hush has flaws, but my personal tastes and appreciation for the art or story or characters or what have you has elevated the book in my eyes where I can look past these flaws (which do exist) and enjoy the Loeb and/or Lee's work."

but i'm not about to get on top of a mountain and say "this sucks and jeph loeb sucks and he shoudl, get run over by a car!!!"
that's all i'm saying. you think it's somehow wrong to like those stories, as if everyone has to think like an elitist to enjoy comics.

I like Jeph Loeb. I have confessed on many occasions how awesome The Long Halloween is. I like his work on Marvel characters. Does his work with Jim Lee on a little arc we like to call Hush stand up to his previous works? Hell no. And if there's an ounce of credibility in you, regardless if you like Hush or not, you'd agree with me.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

JSA is crap now? ok.... see that's my problem right there with you. you havent even taken the time to read it and somehow it's garbage. no, dont bother... i'm not listening. all i said was that i liked hush and broken city and if anyone wants to read them i would grab them by the shoulders, look them in the eyes and firmly shake them and say "yes my son!!! go and read them!! you wont be sorry!!!" there's plenty more to recommend. you're right. who's saying that's the only thing i'm recommending?
personally i've been turned off by jeph ever since he started writing suprman/batman. the stories have had lame endings, go against post crisis cannon and are generally there to entertain 40 year olds.
i still bought the first six issues cause i wanted to see the story arc to it's end but i dropped it afterwards.
why am i even explaining this t you anyway? like i said, if people read what they wanted instead of listening to "experts" the comics industry woukld be better off.

 

[Willco]

Except I do read what I want. A lot of people read Fables. I don't. Not my cup of tea. You problem is you get way too defensive instead of just going, "Yeah, I read stuff that people might not like and/or is flawed, but I read it anyway."

You won't see me recommending anyone Millar's Spider-Man unless I think that might be the kind of comic someone would enjoy. It's not a particularly good comic, it has a lot of flaws, but DAMN THE MAN if I don't like it.

You won't see me defending silly Millar stuff, though.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Except I do read what I want. A lot of people read Fables. I don't. Not my cup of tea. You problem is you get way too defensive instead of just going, "Yeah, I read stuff that people might not like and/or is flawed, but I read it anyway."

You won't see me recommending anyone Millar's Spider-Man unless I think that might be the kind of comic someone would enjoy. It's not a particularly good comic, it has a lot of flaws, but DAMN THE MAN if I don't like it.

You won't see me defending silly Millar stuff, though.

i'm not being defensive but i dont think one opinion on a book is the end all be-all. that's all. so we agree on something. millar's spider-man is not grade A stuff. good... good.

 

[Willco]

i'm not being defensive but i dont think one opinion on a book is the end all be-all. that's all. so we agree on something. millar's spider-man is not grade A stuff. good... good.

I never said it was!

And guy, I hate to break it to you, but you're mega-defensive. Not just in this thread or just with me, but in others with other people.

And no one opinion decides whether or not I buy a book. I'd be lying if I said Nomoment's recommendations don't go a long way in deciding what books I pick up or not. His opinion does. Why? Because he has proven time and time again to have similiar tastes as myself and a track record of picking books that rank high in quality. He's 0-for-2 with the Batman books so far, though.

When a book isn't out yet, such as Lapham's Batman, you have nothing to base an opinion on other than art previews and the recommendations of others that you trust.

If you have the money to waste on buying every book that piques your interest, good for you. That creates a problem for me. Why? Because a) I'm not rich and b) if I shopped your way, I'd be likely to pass over every comic that didn't start with "Superman", "Batman" or "Justice". Or anything with a DC Comics logo on it.

 

[nomoment]

Christ, too much stuff going on to start quoting and replying on an individual basis. But, I'll say this:

1. I hyped the Azzarello arc like nuts before it came out. However, after the second issue, I started to realize I was terribly, terribly wrong.

2. Jeph Loeb's "Hush" did fail miserably, but it wasn't garbage. It was resoundingly... average. I wouldn't recommend the run to anybody, but it was by no means terrible. It was kind of like Batman Forever-ish, you know? Too "blah" for anyone to admit it's good, but not bad enough for anyone to say it's terrible.

3. Lapham's run will be different than Azzarello's, promise. If you're a naysayer, just wait till December. Azzarello's run was led with mix reviews... with most of the positive reviews belonging to disilusioned, 100 Bullets fanboys. Wait and see.

I was wrong once, but I sure as hell doubt I'm going to be wrong this time. Plus, my recommendations usually pay off about 90% of time... don't doubt me!

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I never said it was!

And guy, I hate to break it to you, but you're mega-defensive. Not just in this thread or just with me, but in others with other people.

And no one opinion decides whether or not I buy a book. I'd be lying if I said Nomoment's recommendations don't go a long way in deciding what books I pick up or not. His opinion does. Why? Because he has proven time and time again to have similiar tastes as myself and a track record of picking books that rank high in quality. He's 0-for-2 with the Batman books so far, though.

When a book isn't out yet, such as Lapham's Batman, you have nothing to base an opinion on other than art previews and the recommendations of others that you trust.

If you have the money to waste on buying every book that piques your interest, good for you. That creates a problem for me. Why? Because a) I'm not rich and b) if I shopped your way, I'd be likely to pass over every comic that didn't start with "Superman", "Batman" or "Justice". Or anything with a DC Comics logo on it.

i'm defensive? now you're just pullling stuff out of thin air. see the problem here? you dont like the fact that i like other comics and think that because people dont read what you read somehow they are not "in the know" or whatever. man....... you couldnt let it go could you? i expressed interest in lapham's bok you (reflexively) say it might not be good and of course it has to end up like hush. no it doesnt. it's two different writers with tow different styles. have SOME faith. or deductive reasoning.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Christ, too much stuff going on to start quoting and replying on an individual basis. But, I'll say this:

1. I hyped the Azzarello arc like nuts before it came out. However, after the second issue, I started to realize I was terribly, terribly wrong.

2. Jeph Loeb's "Hush" did fail miserably, but it wasn't garbage. It was resoundingly... average. I wouldn't recommend the run to anybody, but it was by no means terrible. It was kind of like Batman Forever-ish, you know? Too "blah" for anyone to admit it's good, but not bad enough for anyone to say it's terrible.

3. Lapham's run will be different than Azzarello's, promise. If you're a naysayer, just wait till December. Azzarello's run was led with mix reviews... with most of the positive reviews belonging to disilusioned, 100 Bullets fanboys. Wait and see.

I was wrong once, but I sure as hell doubt I'm going to be wrong this time. Plus, my recommendations usually pay off about 90% of time... don't doubt me!

tell wilco that. he thinks he's the only one with good taste. oops. guess im being defensive.

 

[Willco]

tell wilco that. he thinks he's the only one with good taste. oops. guess im being defensive.

What the hell are you talking about? You do know that acting all asinine like this is only proving my point about your over-sensitivity.

I respect Nomo's opinion just as much as mine. Same with Alucard and Spike and any number of individuals who post in our weekly threads that do have different personal tastes.

And I'd respect your opinion if you didn't act like a 12-year-old all the time.

 

[DarienA]

You people don't have the RIGHT to call yourselves fans of the Bat!

I enjoyed Hush, then again I take things less seriously than most folks... I save being overly critical about things for actual real life problems....

 

[Pellham]

I need to pick this up. I don't even care about Batman, it's more the fact that David Lapham is the greatest comicbook writer ever.

 

[Lyte Edge]

I love you, Willco. This is your thread.

And I don't see how ANYONE can take anything Nomo posts seriously when he likes ROB LIEFELD.

 

[nomoment]

I love you, Willco. This is your thread.

And I don't see how ANYONE can take anything Nomo posts seriously when he likes ROB LIEFELD.

Lyte Edge, I feel sorry for you, man. Being stuck in Japan makes it even harder to find GOOD comics!

 

[Winged Creature]

Plus, my recommendations usually pay off about 90% of time... don't doubt me!

I'll take ur word nomo, i loved most of ur reccomendations.

 

[Lyte Edge]

I LIKE ROB LIEFELD I AM INSANE. Being stuck in Japan makes it even harder to find GOOD comics!

Yeah, I could only find the BEST ones there. I'm back home BTW...had two shipments worth of comics to go through, plus a ton from before I left...

 

[Alucard]

Nomo claimed Bite Club would be AWESOME. I'd take his recommendations with a grain of salt.

 

[nomoment]

nomo, you're entirely right. How could I have doubted you? I think I should start picking up real comics, like Sleeper and Human Target.

Welcome to the club, Lyte.

I'll help you burn that excess of Berserk manga.

Nomo claimed Bite Club would be AWESOME. I'd take his recommendations with a grain of salt.

One of only two times I've been wrong!

Shame you decided to stick with it, though.

 

[nomoment]

Three preview pages are up at DCcomics.com: http://www.dccomics.com/pdfs/batman/dtc801.pdf

 

[BuddyC]

Very nice.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Dammit, Lapham. I don't care about this batman fanfic stuff, just finish Stray Bullets!

 

[Pellham]

I've never read Batman, but David Lapham owns me. I have to check this out just because he wrote it.

 

[nomoment]

Dammit, Lapham. I don't care about this batman fanfic stuff, just finish Stray Bullets!

Stray Bullets occupies too much of Lapham's time, since he's got a family these days.

He was pretty much born to write modern Batman, though. Him and Frank Miller.

 

[nomoment]

Just wanted to let you folks know, Dectective Comics #800 ships this week, which features a back-up story written and drawn by David Lapham. This story will serve as a prelude to next month's Batman: City of Crime, which begins in Detective Comics #801.

Here's a preview: http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=3498

 

[nomoment]

So, who picked this up?

Hopefully after reading Detective Comics #801, you guys will agree that Lapham's run on Detective just might be the best Batman story in years.

In Detective #801, Lapham uses Gotham City itself as a character, and builds upon this with his intricate, winding narrative. Bachs' art is pretty sharp too, but the one thing you can really notice is that this is David Lapham's title. If you compare the panel layouts in this issue of Detective Comics to a random issue of Stray Bullets, the similiarities will jump out at you immediately. Bachs polishes everything off perfectly, as the finished art is very sharp and detailed.

Detective Comics #801 was just an all-together great comic, and if you haven't read the issue by now, please, spend $2.95 and give it a shot. This isn't Azzarello again. This is actually pretty friggin' good.

 

[nomoment]

Here's a couple more pages for the non-believers:

Interview with David Lapham: http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=003155

 

[Saturnman]

David Lapham's Batman: City of Crime. Aka, BEST BATMAN COMIC IN YEARS. #1

I don't pretend to know much about comics, but this isn't hardly the best (Batman) comic art.

 

[nomoment]

I don't pretend to know much about comics, but this isn't hardly the best (Batman) comic art.

Well, that much is obvious. I don't think ANYBODY can top what David Mazzuchelli did in Batman: Year One.

Ramon Bachs is doing a stand-up job, though.