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[More_Badass]

Poor/mediocre movie does poorly. Kind of telling the execs and producers will choose any number of reasons others than the simplest

It being an anime adaptation has nothing to do with the box office failure either. That's about as reasonable as saying Fan4stic did poorly because it was a "comic book movie". You can make a good movie about anything, and the myriad inspired successors to Ghost In The Shell showed that its presentation and style can be done well on film

It being a poorly-paced movie with boring action and boring characters barely hanging on by a thread to the strength of its visuals was the biggest death blow here.

 

[marzlapin]

Is this the wrong message?

It's not the fact that they're based on games and anime, it's that they've all been between mediocre and terrible, and many of them have been whitewashed. Film execs will likely assume that anime and game based live action movies can't succeed in America, when the problem isn't their source material, it's that they've all been bad.

 

[bobbytkc]

Am I missing something?

The total cost is 250 mill and the BO is estimated to be 200 Million, and they estimate a $60 million loss? Isn't it more like 150++ million since the film producer takes in less than 1/2 the box office receipts?

 

[inner-G]

Why is an actual, animated feature never an option?

I don't think I've seen one live-action manga/anime adaptation that was as good as the source material.

 

[bobbytkc]

Why is an actual, animated feature never an option?

I don't think I've seen one live-action manga/anime adaptation that was as good as the source material.

The live action Death Note from japan is better than the source. For me anyway, since it does away completely with the 2nd half of the manga.

 

[More_Badass]

It's not the fact that they're based on games and anime, it's that they've all been between mediocre and terrible, and many of them have been whitewashed. Film execs will likely assume that anime and game based live action movies can't succeed in America, when the problem isn't their source material, it's that they've all been bad.

Exactly. A bad movie is a bad movie regardless if it's based on an anime, video game, comic, an original idea, a reboot.

Pretty much all video game movies are either just bad (Assassins Creed, Hitman) or more concerned with being References To Cool Stuff From The Games: The Movie than being a good movie first.

I'd argue Lara Croft was actually one of the better ones, because it was just being a fun over-the-top adventure b-movie and not even trying to be like the games or adapt the games

Edge of Tomorrow worked. GITS didn't. Being based on an anime isn't the problem

 

[8BitsAtATime]

Honestly, who gives a shit about star power? I watch movies based on good reviews and if the story/setting/etc is interesting, not if some big star is in it. Just choose someone who would best fit the role. Whatever, just my crazy opinion.

So did you love the new Ghostbusters?

 

[BocoDragon]

Let's be honest, introspective philosophy wasn't going to make this film a box office success.

Oh, that's for sure.

Actually I wonder if the "platitudization" of GITS' wasn't a good thing for a Hollywood movie to do, even if every fan of the anime hated it, and the film bombed anyway. That's kind of what Hollywood does. Those Marvel movies keep the content real simple. A little self doubt, cured by "the power of friendship", and that's your character arc. It's a Hallmark card.

I don't think an introspective GITS would have done much better... though maybe that would be the path to getting better reviews on the Ex Machina level. I dunno.

It's a shame, I actually really enjoyed the movie for what it was and I'm disappointed that we probably won't see any big budget live action adaptations of anime again.

Yeah I'm with you on that. Movie wasn't bad, and I wanted to see more attempts of anime adaptations at this level.

 

[jono51]

The whitewashing claims are valid, I also think there is misogyny towards the female lead. I mean, if Tom Cruise played Mantoko Kusanagi this film would have cleared 500m already

 

[BocoDragon]

The whitewashing claims are valid,. It I also think there is misogyny towards the female lead. I mean, if Tom cruise played Mantoko Kusanagi this film would have cleared 500m already

I mean Edge of Tomorrow literally bombed and made only $30m in its opening weekend...

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Exactly. A bad movie is a bad movie regardless if it's based on an anime, video game, comic, an original idea, a reboot.

Pretty much all video game movies are either just bad (Assassins Creed, Hitman) or more concerned with being References To Cool Stuff From The Games: The Movie than being a good movie first.

I'd argue Lara Croft was actually one of the better ones, because it was just being a fun over-the-top adventure b-movie and not even trying to be like the games or adapt the games

Edge of Tomorrow worked. GITS didn't.

But I think Emily Blunt is a much better action-actress. When I think of her in Looper, Edge of Tomorrow and Sicario, she brings a vulnerability with her that I buy. She is good at acting with her "eyes" and her facial expression.


To me, Scarlet Johansson is very pretty and she is not horrible or anything, but she feels like an action star who- Like Milla jovovich is this bad ass sexy woman who is pissed. I don't buy it. It feels like a caricature of a female character designed for fanboys.
I think it's the way the characters are written.

 

[firehawk12]

...Ironically, Screen Engine/ComScore’s PostTrak audience polls show that Asian Americans bought tickets to watch Ghost and even enjoyed the film. They repped 13% of Ghost‘s audience, on par with the demo’s turnout for Arrival (14%, $24M), Passengers (12%, $14.9M opening) and xXx: The Return Of Xander Cage (14%, $20.1M FSS), the latter which featured several Asian stars including Donnie Yen and Wu Yifan. Zero percent gave Ghost a poor rating. Of the Asian Americans who watched Ghost, 93% gave it a good, very good or excellent rating, which isn’t that far from Caucasians, Hispanics (both 97%) and African Americans (94%).

Oh well. lol

 

[Chumley]

But I think Emily Blunt is a much better action-actress. When I think of her in Looper, Edge of Tomorrow and Sicario, she brings a volnuaraility with her that I buy. She is good at acting with her "eyes" and her facial expression.


To me, Scarlet Johansson is very pretty and she is not horrible or anything, but she feels like an action star who- Like Milla jovovich is this bad ass sexy woman who is pissed. I don't buy it. It feels like a caricature of a female character designed for fanboys.
I think it's the way the characters are written.

That's pretty much all in the direction and the writing, though. I think Johansson brought a little bit of depth to it despite Rupert Sanders not being a very strong director.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Seriously, I can't remember the last time I saw a movie just​ because an actor was in it. Maybe it will pique my interest more, but that's it.

 

[2Smashed4U]

volnuaraility

excuse me

 

[SixMachine]

Seriously, I can't remember the last time I saw a movie just​ because an actor was in it. Maybe it will pique my interest more, but that's it.

I'm pretty sure the only movies people watch for actors are Japanese Action Videos.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm pretty sure the only movies people watch for actors are Japanese Action Videos.

I will definitely explain that's what the acronym means the next time my girlfriend sees my search history.

 

[Bluth54]

So did you love the new Ghostbusters?

Ghostbusters 2016 is awful and it has nothing to do with the stars (well besides what seems to be some bad improv by some of them though it was the editor's decision to keep that in the movie).

 

[duckroll]

I'm pretty sure the only movies people watch for actors are Japanese Action Videos.

Brings a whole new meaning to Sword of the Stranger.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

That's pretty much all in the direction and the writing, though. I think Johansson brought a little bit of depth to it despite Rupert Sanders not being a very strong director.

Yeah I think so.
I've not seen it in a decade, but I wonder if The Island is the one where she works the best, even though she was little more than a damsel in distress?

excuse me

vulnerable*

 

[Chumley]

Yeah I think so.
I've not seen it in a decade, but I wonder if The Island is the one where she works the best, even though she was little more than a damsel in distress?

Yeah that was pure Michael Bay bullshit, basically. Still pretty early in her career though and she's a way better actress these days.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I feel bad. Haven't seen the movie yet but it at least looks like an honest effort. Oh well.

 

[Robot Pants]

I guess I gotta do my part and go see it. It looked cool to me I just dont have the time

 

[wazoo]

Oh well. lol

Asian Americans have no access to internet. Confirmed.

This confirms that any keyboard warrior community can have a big impact by social network and being relayed in click-hungry news sites. impact which is completely uncorrelated with the "real" community they claim to represent.

 

[TatteredHat]

I'll be a happy man if I never have to see another anime adaptation being made.

 

[Shandy]

Honestly, as little as I expected from the film itself, I expected even less of its performance.

 

[wazoo]

Actually I wonder if the "platitudization" of GITS' wasn't a good thing for a Hollywood movie to do, even if every fan of the anime hated it, and the film bombed anyway. That's kind of what Hollywood does. Those Marvel movies keep the content real simple. A little self doubt, cured by "the power of friendship", and that's your character arc. It's a Hallmark card.

I think comparing GITS and Marvel movies is not fair. Marvel movies are as bad, sometimes terribly bad. The difference is that US public is very much adverse to anything they do not know and at the same time they are raised to like comics books from the youth, so much less forgiving to the Marvel/DC crap.

GITS and Valerian (next summer) are risky propositions because they are funded on cultural flavors that are rejected by the US public.

 

[Chumley]

I'll be a happy man if I never have to see another anime adaptation being made.

Were there actually any before this?

 

[BocoDragon]

I think comparing GITS and Marvel movies is not fair. Marvel movies are as bad, sometimes terribly bad. The difference is that US public is very much adverse to anything they do not now and at the same time they are raised to like comics books from the youth, so much less forgiving to the Marvel/DC crap.

GITS and Valerian (next summer) are risky propositions because they are funded on cultural flavors that are rejected by the US public.

I quite agree, actually.

In a vacuum, both GITS and Marvel would be bizarre, out there, genre content.... but one is a foreign import, while the other is All-American (and projected as "normal" to international audiences via the incredible soft power of American culture).

Another poster yesterday was telling me about how GITS looked bad. I was like... oh no, the movie is stunning. But when he explained to me what he meant, I think the idea was that it looked "Other", and to him that registered in a bad way (that "Other" appeal is exactly what I'm looking for and is my yummy candy, but I digress....)

 

[wandering]

Asian Americans have no access to internet. Confirmed.

This confirms that any keyboard warrior community can have a big impact by social network and being relayed in click-hungry news sites. impact which is completely uncorrelated with the "real" community they claim to represent.

Pack it up boys, they got us. We're not real Asian Americans.

 

[Fallout-NL]

fanboys

They keep using that word. Guess it's smart to show outright disgust for the first people that might show some enthusiasm for your shit film.

Yeah that was pure Michael Bay bullshit, basically. Still pretty early in her career though and she's a way better actress these days.

These days? She was pretty fucking spectacular in Lost in Translation if you ask me.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Oh well. lol

Yes, an audience poll of people who paid to see the movie. wrap it up

 

[Peterpan]

This is why Leonardo Dicaprio is the most bankable star in Hollywood imo. People go watch his movies because he carefully pick his projects and the directors attached to them. He's working with top tier directors and nearly all of his movies have hooks in one way or another to make a solid profit. Even then, he had a couple of underwhelming movies like J. Edgar which looked boring (and the director was Clint Eastwood.

Him and Denzel Washington, I mean look at Equalizer and Man on Fire. Even Fences did well at the box office, people go watch Films for Denzel.

As for directors I think Tarentino is a guaranteed success at this point. Not even Scorsese is anymore, he should be though.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Honestly, as little as I expected from the film itself, I expected even less of its performance.

Is this from the manga? I didn't think it'd look so adorable and playful.

 

[massoluk]

Is this from the manga? I didn't think it'd look so adorable and playful.

Wait till you see the manga's threeway tentacle lesbian scene.

 

[AgentOtaku]

As much as I'm bitter over how this film turned out I'm not surprised after having watched Producer of Dredd 3D, and The Grey Adi Shankars video on how a movie like Dredd 2 would be possible. Which brings to light just how hard it is to get a film financed...

https://youtu.be/kWP88WKVBKs

A film with what would be considered an obscure IP would hinge completely on its star power. What chafes my ass is why would you use an obscure IP to deliver such a boilerplate premise.

In the age of rotten tomatoes and meta scores, its harder to get away with tentople schlock unless youre a comic book hero*

*excluding Green Lantern and Fantastic 4 lol

Aaaaand this thread introduced me to Adi Shankar!

 

[marzlapin]

I think comparing GITS and Marvel movies is not fair. Marvel movies are as bad, sometimes terribly bad. The difference is that US public is very much adverse to anything they do not know and at the same time they are raised to like comics books from the youth, so much less forgiving to the Marvel/DC crap.

GITS and Valerian (next summer) are risky propositions because they are funded on cultural flavors that are rejected by the US public.

I dunno, anecdotal but I grew up on anime and manga and never read Marvel stuff, and the Marvel movies I've seen have just been better than GITS was.

 

[wazoo]

As for directors I think Tarentino is a guaranteed success at this point. Not even Scorsese is anymore, he should be though.

His movies are rather cheap to make. Hateful Eight is a reasonable success considering its costs.

No director is protected from failure, even Spielberg who made a few missteps.

I found funny comments like "How could they took the director of Snow white and the Hunter !!". That movie made 400M and was worthy of a sequel.

 

[wazoo]

I dunno, anecdotal but I grew up on anime and manga and never read Marvel stuff, and the Marvel movies I've seen have just been better than GITS was.

Are you from US ? If yes, you are in the minority, which I think you agree.

 

[blanchot]

The live action Death Note from japan is better than the source. For me anyway, since it does away completely with the 2nd half of the manga.

the 2nd half of the manga just completely ruined death note for me. i have yet to read it.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Are you from US ? If yes, you are in the minority, which I think you agree.

In them mainly being familiar with anime over American comics or in them thinking that the Marvel films are better than GITS?

 

[wazoo]

Another poster yesterday was telling me about how GITS looked bad. I was like... oh no, the movie is stunning. But when he explained to me what he meant, I think the idea was that it looked "Other", and to him that registered in a bad way (that "Other" appeal is exactly what I'm looking for and is my yummy candy, but I digress....)

People are not educated to be curious of different things. The main guilty are the megacorps (Disney, Mac Donalds, Nike, ...) Those want the world to have uniform tastes in space (people everywhere consume the same thing) and age (people of every age look and consume the same, which for movies means more kid stuff for everybody).

In that context, the success of Beauty of the Beast is logical.

 

[wazoo]

In them mainly being familiar with anime over American comics or in them thinking that the Marvel films are better than GITS?

First part.

 

[marzlapin]

Are you from US ? If yes, you are in the minority, which I think you agree.

Yes I am, and I'm definitely in the minority but your point was that Americans dislike GITS because it's unfamiliar while they like Marvel/DC stuff because it's familiar. I came into those movies from the opposite end as far as familiarity goes. Also, the DC movies have been flopping hard lately with the exception of Suicide Squad, so it's not as simple as just familiarity.

 

[wazoo]

Yes I am, and I'm definitely in the minority but your point was that Americans dislike GITS because it's unfamiliar while they like Marvel/DC stuff because it's familiar.

And you confirm my point telling that you are in the minority. OF course "The american blabla " does not exclude minorities and exceptions. I also except people on neogaf to have a broader perspective than the general public.

Also, the DC movies have been flopping hard lately with the exception of Suicide Squad,

Man of Steel is the highest grossing Superman ever. BvsS increased the revenue up to 870M$. So, I do not understand your point.

 

[TatteredHat]

Were there actually any before this?

Well... Dragonball Evolution is basically the only one. Not a great track-record so far.

I won't count the Matrix because it's not an adaptation, even though I think it's the prime example of how I think Hollywood should be approaching future anime "adaptations".

 

[Trokil]

Just as a question. What is exactly the message that Hollywood should have gotten from the last two weeks?

Diverse casts work? There was just this political correct Power Rangers movie out, 100 million budget, stayed away from every scandal even changed the Black Ranger for that. Had okish reviews, fans liked it and it made less money that Ghost. Still not even its production budget back.

So that was not the message, then it is about that movies are too expensive I guess. So there was Life released, Sci-fi movie, 50 million budget, diverse cast, even some big names and it struggles to get its production costs back.

And there was Ghost in the Shell, which will make its production cost back by the end of the week and even make some money back, because honestly those numbers in the article are made up, just to make a point. The movie did a lot better in South Korea or pretty much any foreign country than XXX for example and suddenly should not even come close to that in China and Japan, just because.

So what is the message exactly? That not make any sci-fi movies?

 

[twinturbo2]

Speed Racer
Astroboy
Ghost in the Shell

Well at least Cameron'll save the day with Battle Angel... right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Cameron pass Battle Angel off to Robert Rodriguez?

 

[spekkeh]

5) Reverse Casting Controversy: While Ghost has been bombarded by protests since the first day of Johansson's attachment, many distribution executives still believe the whitewash controversy never impacted moviegoers' ticket-buying decisions...

...Ironically, Screen Engine/ComScore's PostTrak audience polls show that Asian Americans bought tickets to watch Ghost and even enjoyed the film. They repped 13% of Ghost‘s audience, on par with the demo's turnout for Arrival (14%, $24M), Passengers (12%, $14.9M opening) and xXx: The Return Of Xander Cage (14%, $20.1M FSS), the latter which featured several Asian stars including Donnie Yen and Wu Yifan. Zero percent gave Ghost a poor rating. Of the Asian Americans who watched Ghost, 93% gave it a good, very good or excellent rating, which isn't that far from Caucasians, Hispanics (both 97%) and African Americans (94%).

I don't get this point. It seems to corroborate that the distribution executives are right and by and large, moviegoers don't care for whitewashing complaints.

The main problem to me seems to be point 1, it's too expensive for a niche market IP.

 

[Trokil]

The main problem to me seems to be point 1, it's too expensive for a niche market IP.

Could be, look at the Power Rangers movie. But that would not make such a great topic.