Deaths in High School Football

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Griss said:
Contact sports are dangerous. Team contact sports lead inexorably to the commodifaction of human health. That doesn't mean they're not worthwhile. I think they are, and that the risks are worth it. We should always be looking to improve safety, though, so long as it doesn't infringe on the soul of the sport.
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I don't think contact sports are worth it. Or rather, I fail to see what a contact sport like football brings to society over a contact sport like basketball, which while still dangerous in the sense that leg injuries are common, at least has a low chance of fucking with someone's brain.
 
DoktorEvil said:
No one is suggesting to ban the sport, but you could at least understand why parents are apprehensive to support sports predicated on head to head contact, or fist to head contact.
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I see opinions that it's stupid to have your kid play it because it's too dangerous for them.

Which to me sounds like they would support banning the sport, because if it's too dangerous for your own kid, why wouldn't it be too dangerous for other kids?

"No, don't ban it! It's OK if your kids get hurt or die."
 
Arkeband said:
You must have had a different upbringing because mine was never a binary choice between doing a sport or becoming a menace to society.
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My upbringing was believing in yourself and striving for perfection. It was never pushing towards sports around my household and hell I didn't want to play any sports team. To be honest, my extra curricular activities were choir and music class. So the whole judgement of sport and menace to society is far fetch to my feelings of what I want from my own child. I'm not some dude with a cigar pushing their son to win 4 touchdowns in one damn game. As I said, I hope he goes for a easygoing activity like music class in school, but it is what it is.
 
When my son was playing last year a kid got hit and was (thankfully) temporarily paralyzed for 40 minutes, the EMTs called it a stinger because it happens often enough during games.

These were 10 year olds.

I can't imagine the damage occurring at the high school level.
 
I'm not american but if my kid wants to play american football, i'll encourage him.
I love the sport and i played at uni. I'm not gonna cuddle him. i'll tell him the dangers but if he wants to play, he can go ahead.
 
So we're talking about 7 deaths per year on average (including college). That's such a minuscule percentage. I'm surprised with all the comments that anyone here would let their child drive a car or eat fatty foods.
 
Ray Wonder said:
I see opinions that it's stupid to have your kid play it because it's too dangerous for them.

Which to me sounds like they would support banning the sport, because if it's too dangerous for your own kid, why wouldn't it be too dangerous for other kids?

"No, don't ban it! It's OK if your kids get hurt or die."
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This is a leap, at best. Football is ingrained into the American consciousness. It will never be banned.
 
j_rocca42 said:
So we're talking about 7 deaths per year on average (including college). That's such a minuscule percentage. I'm surprised with all the comments that anyone here would let their child drive a car or eat fatty foods.
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It's not just the kids outright dying.

A total of 87 out of 91 former NFL players have tested positive for the brain disease at the center of the debate over concussions in football, according to new figures from the nation’s largest brain bank focused on the study of traumatic head injury.
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/new-87-deceased-nfl-players-test-positive-for-brain-disease/

So yes, these are NFL players, but I think there's sufficient cause for concern that there's a lot of damage being done to brains still developing for kids that aren't picked up on until problems start later.
 
DoktorEvil said:
This is a leap, at best. Football is ingrained into the American consciousness. It will never be banned.
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I know that it won't.. This is so far from my point.

I'm saying with the way that yinz think, if that protectiveness became the normal mindset, there would be no professional "dangerous sports".
 
I'm no football fan, but it seems kind of random to me that it's singled out to such an extent. I'd assume there are many more child deaths every year from kids riding their bikes in the street, or drowning in lakes, or just riding in cars.
 
The auto racing doesn't kill teens thing seems like kind of a weird point. We get a dozen or so football related fatalities per year vs thousands for teen drivers. Sure most of that isn't auto-racing related, but hearing about street racing deaths is not exactly uncommon. Not to mention all the fatalities you get from stuff like snowmobiles and ATVs.

Honestly I'd be more worried about my kid getting drunk celebrating 'the big win' and killing himself or someone else driving home than dying on the football field.
 
Ralemont said:
It's not just the kids outright dying.



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/new-87-deceased-nfl-players-test-positive-for-brain-disease/

So yes, these are NFL players, but I think there's sufficient cause for concern that there's a lot of damage being done to brains still developing for kids that aren't picked up on until problems start later.
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deaths in high school football is the title of the thread. So that's what I'm talking about. And to your other point about head trauma, coaches are now starting kids young with "heads up" tackling to hopefully curb that kind of stuff.
 
Pegasus Actual said:
The auto racing doesn't kill teens thing seems like kind of a weird point. We get a dozen or so football related fatalities per year vs thousands for teen drivers. Sure most of that isn't auto-racing related, but hearing about street racing deaths is not exactly uncommon. Not to mention all the fatalities you get from stuff like snowmobiles and ATVs.

Honestly I'd be more worried about my kid getting drunk celebrating 'the big win' and killing himself or someone else driving home than dying on the football field.
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I worry less about actual death and more about being physically battered while still developing. The brain isn't designed for that.
 
The statistical problem is not the deaths, the statistical problem is your child will have brain injuries after a flop tenure of high school football, statistically.
 
http://www.ocvarsity.com/articles/telles-19587-robert-son.html

A guy died at one of our varsity football games, it was one intense football season. Everyone was very emotional and a lot of parents wanted withdraw their kids from the team.

I think that kids are definitely are bigger these days, we have a bunch of dudes that were 6 foot plus and which were ripped. I honestly don't think young teens aren't physically ready for a sport so draining and dangerous, such as football.
 
Risible said:
When my son was playing last year a kid got hit and was (thankfully) temporarily paralyzed for 40 minutes, the EMTs called it a stinger because it happens often enough during games.

These were 10 year olds.

I can't imagine the damage occurring at the high school level.
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Same thing happened in one of our junior high games last year. A kid got hit in the head and couldn't move his legs for half an hour or so. Said it was a stinger and that was that.


I wish soccer was more prevalent, would encourage my kids to play that over football.
 
dave is ok said:
Three in a month is a statistical outlier if there was only 13 deaths in a period of two years.
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j_rocca42 said:
So we're talking about 7 deaths per year on average (including college). That's such a minuscule percentage. I'm surprised with all the comments that anyone here would let their child drive a car or eat fatty foods.
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I honestly didn't expect comments this dismissive, even with the small percentage.
 
radioactivez0r said:
I honestly didn't expect comments this dismissive, even with the small percentage.
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Its a very easy and unintelligent conversation dismissal tool to compare <voluntary recreational activity's deaths> versus <absolutely essential method of transportation to exist in today's society>

More people die in plane crashes than suffer fatalities sticking their dicks in light sockets, so IMO I'm not too concerned about it hurdyhurrhurr!
 
Eh, the world is a dangerous place and if my kid wants to play football then sure. I had a lot of fun playing contact sports growing up, did much more dangerous shit outside of these recreational activities.
 
radioactivez0r said:
I honestly didn't expect comments this dismissive, even with the small percentage.
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The article opens with a sentence saying high school football an activity in which deaths "regularly" occur.

All available statistics disprove this. I'm being dismissive because the article is saying something is true that isn't.
 
The US Culture's love affair with football needs to end. We have had massive cultural changes in the past decade and this should be on the list. There is no way youth football should be allowed at all, it should be illegal.
 
Arkeband said:
Its a very easy and unintelligent conversation dismissal tool to compare <voluntary recreational activity's deaths> versus <absolutely essential method of transportation to exist in today's society>

More people die in plane crashes than suffer fatalities sticking their dicks in light sockets, so IMO I'm not too concerned about it hurdyhurrhurr!
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So we should avoid voluntary recreation activities because they're dangerous?

That seems just as dumb as the comparison you're pointing at.
 
Hari Seldon said:
The US Culture's love affair with football needs to end. We have had massive cultural changes in the past decade and this should be on the list. There is no way youth football should be allowed at all, it should be illegal.
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i wouldnt be against flag football but then the college scouts wouldn't know how good the players they're exploiting are so we cant have that, right?
 
mkenyon said:
So we should avoid voluntary recreation activities because they're dangerous?

That seems just as dumb as the comparison you're pointing at.
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Human beings typically avoid dangerous activities over time, this really isn't anything novel.

I mean, we're also very stupid, self-destructive creatures, which is why all science tells us smoking gives you lung cancer but people still blow their paychecks on cigarettes. You can't force people to stop doing stupid activities, but you can educate away from them.

Do you honestly believe football will still exist in its present form in another twenty years? Fifty years? A hundred? And I'm not talking holograms or hoverboards or jetpacks, I'm talking investments in safer equipment instead of investments in shinier stadiums, I'm talking changes to rules, changes in how fans view that awesome tackle that severed a spine to a reprehensible action that should bar the player from the sport and set them up to be heavily sued or put in jail.

If it's inevitable that football will change or die, why fight it? And in the interim, why not educate your kid on the risks of its present form?
 
Hari Seldon said:
The US Culture's love affair with football needs to end. We have had massive cultural changes in the past decade and this should be on the list. There is no way youth football should be allowed at all, it should be illegal.
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I think there's other sports where this could exist, I'm not saying that Football is the only way to get this, buuuuut

I played contact football from the age of 7 up through 18 years of age. I'd point to football practice, and coaches pushing me to improve myself physically and mentally as a huge part of the positive aspects of my life.

There's something to be said about learning to accept suffering (physical pain from exhaustion/pushing yourself) with a team that also shares in it an pushes you. It makes you a better person. It teaches you how to work with others and support them. It teaches you to be strong willed and how to overcome obstacles. It does it in a way that anything outside of sports can't, especially at that age.

Beyond that, it also taught me how to have a healthy lifestyle. I let that go in my 20s, but getting back into it was a lot easier because I already had the tools.

The idea of making something illegal that has *so* many positive benefits because of possible risks conjures up all the bad feelings and grossness people have about nanny states.
Arkeband said:
Human beings typically avoid dangerous activities over time, this really isn't anything novel.

I mean, we're also very stupid, self-destructive creatures, which is why all science tells us smoking gives you lung cancer but people still blow their paychecks on cigarettes. You can't force people to stop doing stupid activities, but you can educate away from them.

Do you honestly believe football will still exist in its present form in another twenty years? Fifty years? A hundred? And I'm not talking holograms or hoverboards or jetpacks, I'm talking investments in safer equipment instead of investments in shinier stadiums, I'm talking changes to rules, changes in how fans view that awesome tackle that severed a spine to a reprehensible action that should bar the player from the sport and set them up to be heavily sued or put in jail.

If it's inevitable that football will change or die, why fight it?
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What?

I'm all for making things safer in general. When I played, I had the benefits of improvements in safety that people 20 years before me didnt. Kids 20 years in the future will have benefits that I didn't have. That's great. I'm not fighting anything.

I'm just fighting against the idea that we need to do away with any risks. Risk-averse culture is nauseating to me.
 
Hari Seldon said:
The US Culture's love affair with football needs to end. We have had massive cultural changes in the past decade and this should be on the list. There is no way youth football should be allowed at all, it should be illegal.
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The top 10 sports-related head-injury categories among children ages 14 and younger:

Cycling: 40,272
Football: 21,878
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So should bicycles be banned too? Obviously every attempt at improving safety in football should be made, but the reason it get singled out in the US is because of how popular the sport is.

I don't necessarily agree with all parental decisions to keep kids away from certain athletic events, but the fact is that's not my decision to make. But to suggest banning the sport entirely is a knee jerk reaction to sensationalist media programs and just silly in general.

Source: http://www.aans.org/Patient Information/Conditions and Treatments/Sports-Related Head Injury.aspx
 
mkenyon said:
I think there's other sports where this could exist, I'm not saying that Football is the only way to get this, buuuuut

I played contact football from the age of 7 up through 18 years of age. I'd point to football practice, and coaches pushing me to improve myself physically and mentally as a huge part of the positive aspects of my life.

There's something to be said about learning to accept suffering (physical pain from exhaustion/pushing yourself) with a team that also shares in it an pushes you. It makes you a better person. It teaches you how to work with others and support them. It teaches you to be strong willed and how to overcome obstacles. It does it in a way that anything outside of sports can't, especially at that age.

Beyond that, it also taught me how to have a healthy lifestyle. I let that go in my 20s, but getting back into it was a lot easier because I already had the tools.

The idea of making something illegal that has *so* many positive benefits because of possible risks conjures up all the bad feelings and grossness people have about nanny states.
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Everything you just listed as positive can be found in every other high school sport, including crosscountry track.
 
Arkeband said:
Everything you just listed as positive can be found in every other high school sport, including crosscountry track.
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Too an extent, yeah.

I did Football, Wrestling, Basketball, Track, and Baseball through 15 y/o, and continued on with Football and Track through High School. None of those were as close to how hard I had to push myself in Football.

I could see Soccer/Football as being similar though.
 
Ah, the cult of American football. So similar to the cult of hockey that is so prevalent in Canada.

Arkeband said:
Everything you just listed as positive can be found in every other high school sport, including crosscountry track.
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It's worth pointing out too that the majority of youth deaths in American football don't come from head / neck injuries, but from heart / internal organ failure (believed to be caused by excessive exertion).
 
Delicious Waffles said:
Still not enough.
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Martial Arts is still more dangerous to him

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Akiraptor said:
So should bicycles be banned too? Obviously every attempt at improving safety in football should be made, but the reason it get singled out in the US is because of how popular the sport is.

I don't necessarily agree with all parental decisions to keep kids away from certain athletic events, but the fact is that's not my decision to make. But to suggest banning the sport entirely is a knee jerk reaction to sensationalist media programs and just silly in general.

Source: http://www.aans.org/Patient Information/Conditions and Treatments/Sports-Related Head Injury.aspx
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I'm guessing many of the bicycle head injuries are caused by cars in some way, and not intrinsic to cycling itself. Still though, until the driverless future is here (hopefully soon, looks like we've been making good progress), you're right cycling is probably one of the most dangerous activites you could let a kid do. I don't think I'd let my kid ride a bike.
 
Hari Seldon said:
The US Culture's love affair with football needs to end. We have had massive cultural changes in the past decade and this should be on the list. There is no way youth football should be allowed at all, it should be illegal.
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EDIT: You said youth football, missed that.

Yeah, I think Junior High is the first time tackle should be allowed. I played flag football up until Junior High.
 
creationtheory said:
I feel like in Texas at least one kid dies per year of heat exhaustion when football practice starts in the summer.
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We have kids die from heat in Florida in the summer just from regular outdoor activities.

Like I said, my son played in middle school and their was a huge emphasis on head safety. Learning how to hit right and not lowering your head. They also do concussion testing if the kid gets a blow to the head or is dizzy. They did it on my son once and that was pretty much it for me.

From what I understand ANY blow to the head of a kid will cause damage. I never played sports, but I hit my head plenty of times wrestling and shit with my friends. I'm sure I did some of the same damage to my noggin that kids get from football.
 
Not to take anything away from the tragedies the article reports (and indeed they are tragedies,) but the article is being a bit disingenuous characterizing football as the only sport that regularly kills kids.

I had a rowing coach yell to us on a day we were rowing particularly shittily, "People have died doing this, get it right!" (And they have.) There are deaths in soccer, there are deaths in baseball, there are deaths in basketball, there are deaths in hockey, there are deaths in lacrosse, if people do it, someone's probably died from it.

Freedom = $1.05 said:
i mean when's the last time you had 3 players die in a month from playing baseball? or basketball? or just about anything else?
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Does February 4th to March 3rd count? How about July 16th to August 5th?
 
Squirrel Killer said:
Not to take anything away from the tragedies the article reports (and indeed they are tragedies,) but the article is being a bit disingenuous characterizing football as the only sport that regularly kills kids.

I had a rowing coach yell to us on a day we were rowing particularly shittily, "People have died doing this, get it right!" (And they have.) There are deaths in soccer, there are deaths in baseball, there are deaths in basketball, there are deaths in hockey, there are deaths in lacrosse, if people do it, someone's probably died from it.


Does February 4th to March 3rd count? How about July 16th to August 5th?
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The difference between "other sports" like soccer or basketball is that deaths would have resulted from performing the sport incorrectly, whereas deaths (and very high occurrences of brain damage) in football seem to stem from playing the sport properly. Every play requires players to smash into each other.

So you can't directly compare them. One facilitates injury and death, the others create rules around them. Soccer and basketball specifically are renowned for players exaggerating injuries for strategic gain, that's how fucking glaring the difference is.
 
Arkeband said:
The difference between "other sports" like soccer or basketball is that deaths would have resulted from performing the sport incorrectly, whereas deaths (and very high occurrences of brain damage) in football seem to stem from playing the sport properly. Every play requires players to smash into each other.

So you can't directly compare them. One facilitates injury and death, the others create rules around them. Soccer and basketball specifically are renowned for players exaggerating injuries for strategic gain, that's how fucking glaring the difference is.
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I wonder how it compares to Rugby? Seems like they hit slower in Rugby because no one is wearing padding.
 
Ray Wonder said:
If the kid wants to play Football or nothing, let him play Football.

If the kid wants to play Football or Tennis, but wants to play Football more, let the kid play Football.

That's my outlook on it. These small statistics don't even register on my worry meter. Kids die from getting hurt all the time from doing random things that aren't Football. Forcing them to play something that isn't Football because you're worried sounds way too paranoid to me.
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And have them start young so they get the full benefit of the experience!

https://youtu.be/AB6oo7eQT20
 
Ray Wonder said:
I see opinions that it's stupid to have your kid play it because it's too dangerous for them.

Which to me sounds like they would support banning the sport, because if it's too dangerous for your own kid, why wouldn't it be too dangerous for other kids?

"No, don't ban it! It's OK if your kids get hurt or die."
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I wouldn't want a ban the sport, but I'd certainly make the potential effects (serious injuries, death) known to my children. Absolutely, I would worry if they decided to get into a contact sport such as football, though of course, I'm not going to stop them if that's what they truly want to do.

Similarly, I don't want to ban cigarettes or alcohol and would legalize all drugs if I had the ability to, but I would dissuade my children from getting into it. At most, I would try to teach them moderation along with the dangers of abuse. I'm all for letting people make their own decisions, but I'm not going to encourage developing kids to put their bodies through hell.
 
I'm a huge football fan and is probably my #1 hobby but damn, I sure as hell wouldn't let my young son play full pads football anytime before middle school. I'm putting him in flag football so he can learn the fundamentals plus the other sports that interest him.
 
foxdvd said:
are there any hard statistics that show how many kids die a year from football? (edit to see an article when I searched on google that says 12 a year but the link is dead)
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12 is what the average was in 2012, and 10 of the 12 are Heat Stroke.

Kama_1082 said:
I'm a huge football fan and is probably my #1 hobby but damn, I sure as hell wouldn't let my young son play full pads football anytime before middle school. I'm putting him in flag football so he can learn the fundamentals plus the other sports that interest him.
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You don't learn full contact fundamentals in flag football....

Arkeband said:
The difference between "other sports" like soccer or basketball is that deaths would have resulted from performing the sport incorrectly, whereas deaths (and very high occurrences of brain damage) in football seem to stem from playing the sport properly.
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You realize the concussion rate for soccer is also very high, because people head the football which is also playing the sport properly
 
RP912 said:
Look....as a parent I know my child's well being and understand where you are coming from, but I'm not going to be a roadblock to stop my child from doing sports. Trust me, I understand statistics and even hope my son does other activities when he gets older, but I'm not going to be a roadblock in his life. There's a difference between breaking curlew, hanging out in the wrong crowds, making sure they hold your hand while crossing the street , and joining a high school/middle school football team that could benefit them in the long run.

I said my piece on the subject. Some people in here have a certain belief in protecting their children, while others have a different belief. All that matters is judgement on all ends of parenthood.
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Who said anything about all sports? Just football, you know, the most dangerous one by far?
 
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