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[balladofwindfishes]

If Bernie gets the nomination, I don't see how he could realistically refuse big donations any further. The Democrats aren't going to allow him to not take big donations. It doesn't work like that.

At some point he's going to have to understand it's a necessary evil just to get in. And then once in he can work towards making sure the courts will overturn their Citizen's United ruling.

He may not agree with the system, but it's the system he needs to be a part of if he wants to go anywhere.

 

[eBay Huckster]

The cool thing is that your vote won't change the outcome of the election, so you can vote however you want to and feel good about it if you want.

Just you wait until the election hinges on JABEE's state voting for one candidate or the other with a margin of exactly one!

(is it Pennsylvania? because that makes this hypothetical extra funny considering its status for the GOP)

 

[loki 16]

You do realize that the only ones who can do anything about that issue are the Supreme Court justices right? Bernie can't do shit about it but appoint justices, probably the same ones Hillary would, and hope someone sues once the court leans enough to the left and the case makes it's way to the court. Anyone telling you they can do more than that is lying.

Bernie is going to appoint justices that will help overturn citizens united. Hilary may say that she would do the same but I don't belieber. She loves getting money from wall street. Also Bernie is not taking corporate money and that is a big step in the right direction.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

It's so disheartening to see that people are actually trying to make it seem like money in politics is not an issue. It's the biggest issue. If any presidential candidate wants to improve the country they need to make money in politics their most important issue. So far there's only one candidate that is actually serious about taking money out of politics and that is Bernie Sanders.

No, you're wrong. Hillary Clinton, Lawrence Lessig, and some former Republican candidates all had near equivalent campaign finance reform policies.

 

[Ogrekiller]

How close is Bloomberg to Hilary and Sanders political?


Why couldn't it be that Bernie won the primary, and in facing the republican candidate, collectively made America shit itself out of fear, making people who otherwise wouldn't, vote.
In my country there is a high voter turnout, and the more extreme the opposition seems to be (racist, hostile, angry, attack ads) the bigger the polar opposite response. When you latch out you can create a snowball effect that instigates a heightened response from the other side.
IMO low voter turnout is a sign of apathy, but apathy disappears if you are truly afraid and scared, and I think the republicans candidate are quite scary, and I think you're already seeing the rest of the worlds reactions to the republicans. - The UK parliament voting to ban Trump, the Mexican ex-president basically saying that Mexico won't and cannot pay for such a wall.
IMO it's important to know your history, to not repeat it, but you can also be a victim. Obama got a lot done without the supreme court. I wouldn't hold off that Bernie also couldn't. But the political insuregency arround him needs to persist past his election, because if the movement- constant intervention and political activism at a grand level does not persist then it won't work.

For too long a lot of western activism has revolved around a core issue, that politicians ride out. An overwhelming amount of people in America opposed the Iraq war and there was grand protests before the war had even begun. A grand contrast to American previous wars, however, the protests failed to do anything and everything piped down relatively quickly as the wars rolled on for 1,5 decades.
In my mind Bernies camp needs to set the movement up to try and have people engaged post the election no matter what happens. If you're going to get Gerrymandering either way, and political corruption either way, as corporations are pulling on both parties, it really has to be undermined from another angle.
I don't think seeking a political revolution in the skewed distribution of power that has now ensured is the same as saying; "to hell with the outcome!". I still attest, that like Bernie himself, a lot of who say "Bernie, or I'll vote for trump" will vote for Hilary if it comes down to Hilary or Trump. I think its a angry knee jerk reaction and something most people say because they want others to think "ohh ohh, better vote for bernie, or his supporters will vote for Hilary".
It doesn't make sense. It's just that as long as Bernie still has a small chance, and since his political activism is strongest on the internet you have people arguing like this.
It's not a good look, but many people in all sorts of situations make ultimatums like this- with video games, pop culture or whatever.

Because moderates don't tend to hold their nose as well. If both sides are perceived as too extreme, then someone else is bound to swoop in, ESPECIALLY since the moderate vote is the largest by far, going by pure statistics. Knee jerks work both ways and it's crazy to think that people would hold their nose and vote Sanders when alternatives like Bloomberg decide to run. It's why Sanders joined the Democratic Party in the first place.

Bernie's donations are almost entirely from individuals aren't they? the point is he's not making use of SuperPACs to pick up cash from big business?

The fact is she has a bad record on honesty. She's a natural born liar. We have literally no reason to trust anything she says.

(also I dislike Obama)

So you don't trust the establishment. Well, Bernie's part of them now, so get used to it.

 

[noshten]

The costs of inequality: Increasingly, it’s the rich and the rest

“It’s long been known that the better educated, those with higher incomes, participate more” in politics on “everything from voting to contacting politicians to donating,” said Theda Skocpol, the Victor S. Thomas Professor of Government and Sociology at FAS. “What is quite new in recent times is … very systematically, that government really responds much more to the privileged than to even middle-income people who vote.”

 

[benjipwns]

Just you wait until the election hinges on JABEE's state voting for one candidate or the other with a margin of exactly one!

(is it Pennsylvania? because that makes this hypothetical extra funny considering its status for the GOP)

Stop trying to make that terrible Kevin Costner movie reality.

I won't allow it!

 

[JABEE]

Just you wait until the election hinges on JABEE's state voting for one candidate or the other with a margin of exactly one!

(is it Pennsylvania? because that makes this hypothetical extra funny considering its status for the GOP)

NJ. So, no worries.

 

[samn]

So you don't trust the establishment. Well, Bernie's part of them now, so get used to it.

I didn't say that. what an odd thing to say

 

[Ogrekiller]

I didn't say that. what an odd thing to say

Well who else is running then?

Hillary = establishment
Bernie = not establishment

What other candidate is there? Biden?

In any case it was about trust. You don't trust Clinton, and I'm guessing there's probably no way for her to change your mind otherwise. And if that's what is going to decide your vote, then man, Bernie's gonna have some big disappointments for you.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

An overwhelming amount of people in America opposed the Iraq war and there was grand protests before the war had even begun. A grand contrast to American previous wars, however, the protests failed to do anything and everything piped down relatively quickly as the wars rolled on for 1,5 decades.

You forget what happened. Bush's war criminals had Shinseki resign. Then they lied to Colin Powell, who proceeded to unwittingly lie to the American people with pictures of Saddam Hussein's weapons from the 90s (that we already knew about) claiming they were recent pictures. And so the "smoking gun" turned American approval around.

And then, during the war, we were continuously lied to. My dad was stationed in Bahrain around 2005. He would watch foreign news stations there, like Canadian and British news, and then he would watch American news, and coverage of the war was bogglingly absent or misleading on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC. What looked like freedom rolling to the States looked like a failed occupation to the rest of the world.

You want to know why Americans supported a war they didn't originally want for years? Because BUSH LIED.

 

[benjipwns]

Well who else is running then?

Hillary = establishment
Bernie = not establishment

What other candidate is there? Biden?

Vermin Supreme

 

[samn]

Well who else is running then?

Hillary = establishment
Bernie = not establishment

What other candidate is there? Biden?

I didn't say the word 'establishment'

 

[Ogrekiller]

I didn't say the word 'establishment'

So what is the use of SuperPacs then if not part of the establishment?

Do you trust the current establishment?

 

[benjipwns]

So what is the use of SuperPacs then if not part of the establishment?

Do you trust the current establishment?

A SuperPAC need not be establishment, it could be a way for outsiders to band together to challenge establishment forces within a party.

 

[AlphaDump]

I didn't say the word 'establishment'

oh i see, establishment is in quotes. you clever fox you

Bernie's donations are almost entirely from individuals aren't they? the point is he's not making use of SuperPACs to pick up cash from big business?

The fact is she has a bad record on honesty. She's a natural born liar. We have literally no reason to trust anything she says.

(also I dislike Obama)

falling back on semantics is lame.

 

[gutter_trash]

A SuperPAC need not be establishment, it could be a way for outsiders to band together to challenge establishment forces within a party.

the argument is about the playing field

Jeb has a huge Right to Rise Super PAC and it is oozing of money

how to you expect a Democrat on that playing field to compete against that without playing by the same rules?

 

[benjipwns]

the argument is about the playing field

Jeb has a huge Right to Rise Super PAC and it is oozing of money

how to you expect a Democrat on that playing field to compete against that without playing by the same rules?

I don't give a shit, I was pointing out that a SuperPAC need not be a party establishment vehicle. It's a legal construct, nothing more, it can be used by anyone.

 

[ApharmdX]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but:

“It was pretty glowing about us,” one person who watched the event said. “It’s so far from what she sounds like as a candidate now. It was like a rah-rah speech. She sounded more like a Goldman Sachs managing director.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/clinton-speeches-218969#ixzz3zhwb5e5w

Might not be true, but if it is, little wonder that Hillary isn't rushing to release transcripts.

 

[Oriel]

Vermin Supreme

He's still more sane than anything on the GOP side.

 

[Averon]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but:




http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/clinton-speeches-218969#ixzz3zhwb5e5w

Might not be true, but if it is, little wonder that Hillary isn't rushing to release transcripts.

Not surprised. You don't pay people $200,000 to lash out at you.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but:




http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/clinton-speeches-218969#ixzz3zhwb5e5w

Might not be true, but if it is, little wonder that Hillary isn't rushing to release transcripts.

Hillary being hired to give a company morale boosting speech, gives a company morale boosting speech?

Huh

http://www.wsj.com/articles/what-di...g-those-speeches-cookies-cars-camp-1437613102

Counter article.

So yea, a generic morale boosting speech.

Remember when I said this

Some cute stories of Bill being silly, or her daughter and how hard it was being a mom and politician at the same time, and other filler like that.

And got the reply

I can't tell if you're delusional or if this is satire.

So much for being delusion. I wasn't far off the mark. It was a campy generic morale speech that they always give at these events.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but:




http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/clinton-speeches-218969#ixzz3zhwb5e5w

Might not be true, but if it is, little wonder that Hillary isn't rushing to release transcripts.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/what-di...g-those-speeches-cookies-cars-camp-1437613102

Counter article.

 

[ApharmdX]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/what-di...g-those-speeches-cookies-cars-camp-1437613102

Counter article.

Quote the relevant part? WSJ is behind a paywall.

 

[samn]

falling back on semantics is lame.

the difference between receiving large donations from corporations and lots of small donations from individuals is not 'semantic'.

oh i see, establishment is in quotes. you clever fox you

I really have no clue what you are on about.

 

[Suikoguy]

the difference between receiving large donations from corporations and lots of small donations from individuals is not 'semantic'.

True, if it was large donations from corporations. But they are donations from employees of said companies of less then $2,700.

So yes, it's semantics.

 

[Abinash117]

I haven't seen any evidence for Russian ambitions beyond Ukraine, assuming we're talking about them invading other European countries. That's a threat that may only exist in the imaginations of people predisposed to fearing and hating Russia.

Hello they annexed Crimea. You think they did it just because? If you think it all in their heads go and fly to Eastern Europe tell them to stop being mean to Russia. You're argument boils down to people hating Russia from the get-go before and despite the actions of what Russia did after Euromadian . Sorry, but that argument is incredible terrible and borderline ignorantly stupid.

As for the sanctions, again, they've been totally ineffective. The sanctions aren't my chosen policy. It's the policy of those who believe, apparently, as you do.

The policy that isn't your chosen policy got results in Iran, and sanctions are to pressure Russia whoever long it takes to get the Minsk deal in place and because the low gas prices Russia is now in a recession. The more sanctions may are may not happen. They don't have to put more because of the low gas prices.

I'm not sure why they get a pass for trying, but failing, to protect Ukraine, and, based on your assumptions, thereby endangering countries beyond it. And the same goes for a lot of the other things you've listed. Sanctions have been in place for a long time now. When can we expect them to produce results?

To Whom are you talking about?

I do find it telling that those who fear Russia the most do not allow at all for the possibility that perhaps Russia is as scared of the US as the US is of them, and that a mutual ratcheting down of tensions may be the best way to serve the interests of all sides and promote peace.

Again Russia can see how ever they want to see things their actions speak for themselves. One of those actions is to invaded a country, they made things worse when now more countries and Ukraine wants to get closer to NATO. Lastly the invasion happened after Euromadian it had nothing to do with NATO and everything to do with EU, but not specifically themselves.

About the countries near Russia. I understand why they would be afraid. But we need to recognize that the US is the big player here. It is the strongest country on the face of the earth and it's not even close. It's up to the US, as the sole superpower to assuage Russia, not the other way around. And in turn, perhaps, Russia will roll back its own aggressive actions.

Or, we could continue to try what's already proven to be a failed policy of cajoling Russia through military buildups and sanctions.

Looks like that will continue to happen poor Russia. Also that is stupid and not even in human nature. You don't go after doing an event that has never happened in years and threatening your neighbors to trying to think about that countries needs.

 

[2AdEPT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfkd50Pxqk#t=175.461

what some young Swedes think of the democratic debate...(and same for me from Canada)

best line: "It is strange to see adults argue over what to do about gun control....the reason our murder rate is so low is we dont allow guns in public or at home."

It aint rocket science America! Bernie is by far the best Candidate, and I have more than a few highly educated friends in Canada who agree that Hillary and her establishment friends are a worse choice than Trump. Cruz being the worst choice of those that have a chance. Hillary is the second worst choice..Trump will never send any migrants away ..it will cost too much when he does the math...all right wing zealots retract their costly pandering for the racist vote BS when it comes time to pay up...there unsurprisingly isnt money for it.

Its almost unfathomable that it is even a choice between Bernie and Hillary, let alone Bernie and Trump or Cruz etc. Ive never seen a more clear emotionless snake than Hillary in all my following of US politics. At least George Bush was honest and didnt hide that he was a psychopath.Try listening to the most respected politician in Canadian history and tell me Bernie isnt the closest to him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSfvWiUt_l8....Tommy Douglas got death threats from paranoid Doctors that thought they would get paid less...they got paid more in the end because more poeple came forward with their ailments when it didnt cost them...idiots...but one man prevailed and didnt step down despite death threats. Does Hillary strike you as the type of person that would stand her ground in the face of death? She crumpled like a tent on universal health care for $$$ let alone death threats. You want a Grampa folks, they dont care if they get assasinated at their age. My Grandfather ran for Prime minster at age 80 for the same reason ...he didnt win, but was willing to die for his beliefs, which were to take the money from the banks and redistribute it to people....he suffered the dirty 30's and swore this would not happen to his descendents so he tried his best just like Tommy.

Hillary's attempts to act like this are extremely feeble..its impossible to fake genuineness unless you're a total psychopath...she cant even do that right.....only one candidate cares for kids or anyone besides himself people this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for a real person instead of a talking head.

 

[Monocle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kfkd50Pxqk#t=175.461

what some young Swedes think of the democratic debate...(and same for me from Canada)

best line: "It is strange to see adults argue over what to do about gun control....the reason our murder rate is so low is we dont allow guns in public or at home."

It aint rocket science America! Bernie is by far the best Candidate, and I have more than a few highly educated friends in Canada who agree that Hillary and her establishment friends are a worse choice than Trump. Cruz being the worst choice of those that have a chance. Hillary is the second worst choice..Trump will never send any migrants away ..it will cost too much when he does the math...all right wing zealots retract their costly pandering for the racist vote BS when it comes time to pay up.

Its almost unfathomable that it is even a choice between Bernie and Hillary, let alone Bernie and Trump or Cruz etc. Ive never seen a more clear emotionless snake than Hillary in all my following of US politics. At least George Bush was honest and didnt hide that he was a psychopath.Try listening to the most respected politician in Canadian history and tell me Bernie isnt the closest to him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSfvWiUt_l8

Hillary's attempts to act like this are extremely feeble..its impossible to fake genuineness unless youre a total psychopath...she cant even do that right.....only one candidate cares for kids or anyone besides himself people this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for a real person instead of a talking head.

Bernie would be the best candidate if our politics weren't poisoned by a party of nutjobs. Right now our system is not compatible with his socialism. He'd be an ineffectual president, assuming he could even make it into office.

Trump better than Hillary? Lol. I suggest you watch how Hillary handled herself during that 11 hour Benghazi hearing, in the face of hysterical partisan attacks. She's a pro. We need someone with actual experience, countless political connections, and an unshakeable demeanor in the White House, not an egomaniac who's blustered and bluffed his way this far.

 

[Macho Madness]

In a perfect world, Hillary vs Bernie would be our general election at this point. But that's not our country today, and pretending it is doesn't help matters.

We're still kookie old America, stubborn to change, hamstrung by the right-wing and our constitution.

 

[2AdEPT]

Bernie would be the best candidate if our politics weren't poisoned by a party of nutjobs. Right now our system is not compatible with his socialism. He'd be an ineffectual president, assuming he could even make it into office.

Trump better than Hillary? Lol. I suggest you watch how Hillary handled herself during that 11 hour Benghazi hearing, in the face of hysterical partisan attacks. She's a pro. We need someone with actual experience, countless political connections, and an unshakeable demeanor in the White House, not an egomaniac who's blustered and bluffed his way this far.

what does it matter how she "handles" herself in debates etc. when she doesn't believe a word of it! Do you understand the definition of a psychopath??? Some people cant be bought, Hillary isnt one of them. Her history speaks for itself...why do you think Bernie even bothered at his age? Its not like if she was an acceptable alternative he would feel he had to run against her, he could just help her cause...her cause aint worth supporting. SHe is the problem in America today...Bernie knows it, and despite that he has to maintain his P's and Q's in support for the democratic party, he wouldn't have run if Hillary was an acceptable alternative.

You Hillary hopefuls are so easy to eat up the establishment BS...Bernie would be a whole lot more "effectual " (whatever you think that means, its a right wing smear meme that means nothing to me) than ANY alternative......the only person they fear is Bernie. His position as a senator is less fearsome than if he were a President, the idea that "he wont do anything anyway is a FEEBLE excuse, as there are no alternatives regardless...he still is better than any alternative, and with the wave of information crushing right wing ideology at present, you may only have 20-30 more years left of the BS....HIllary stalls progress for as many years as she stays in, pretending to work hard but just collecting cheques the whole time and planning her speech tour, similar to Obama, who did a whole lot less than people thought he was going to with the powerful position he holds, but still has done WAAY more than Hillary would have done. Yes it takes time, but people backing Bernie are plentiful and there will be more and more in the future one way or another. Might as well start the movement and build on what little Obama did rather than take a step backward.

Hillary laughing all the way to the bank

 

[Aaronology]

It aint rocket science America! Bernie is by far the best Candidate, and I have more than a few highly educated friends in Canada who agree that Hillary and her establishment friends are a worse choice than Trump. Cruz being the worst choice of those that have a chance. Hillary is the second worst choice..Trump will never send any migrants away ..it will cost too much when he does the math...all right wing zealots retract their costly pandering for the racist vote BS when it comes time to pay up...there unsurprisingly isnt money for it.

Look, a condescending foreigner telling us a sexist, racist, xenophobic billionaire is the second best choice for America! And this, even after Scalia's death has drawn more importance to the USSC and having the next President nominate further Judges.

I suspect you and your highly educated Canadian friends aren't as knowledgeable as you seem to think you are.

Her history speaks for itself...why do you think Bernie even bothered at his age? Its not like if she was an acceptable alternative he would feel he had to run against her, he could just help her cause...her cause aint worth supporting. SHe is the problem in America today...Bernie knows it, and despite that he has to maintain his P's and Q's in support for the democratic party, he wouldn't have run if Hillary was an acceptable alternative.

See, now I feel like I'm being punked. I hate how popular joke posting is on GAF; You can never tell who is serious until they act out a little too much.

 

[2AdEPT]

Look, a condescending foreigner telling us a sexist, racist, xenophobic billionaire is the second best choice for America! And this, even after Scalia's death has drawn more importance to the USSC and having the next President nominate further Judges.

I suspect you and your highly educated Canadian friends aren't as knowledgeable as you seem to think you are.




See, now I feel like I'm being punked. I hate how popular joke posting is on GAF; You can never tell who is serious until they act out a little too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI#t=59.321

You think other nations dont care what happens in the US? You are the most powerful nation on earth and your billionaires own, well just about everything...Do you think I enjoy monopolies like Walmart and Monsanto coming into our country and undercutting our own grocery chains and giving us plastic underwear in the case of the former (thank goodness for Costco and Blackberry) and in the case of the latter, suing us for not handing over our resources? Do you think I enjoy having a $0.60 dollar when my wages didnt go up at the same time? It was $0.80 a year and a half ago, and was equal at times over the last 5 years when wall street took a hit, but now that they got bailed out its right back to making record profits even higher than what helped cause the first crash. You take a 20% pay cut and its all smiles Im sure. The only joke is how American foibles bring down the SOL of all people on earth, not just the friggin place you were born. Many people in Canada lost their jobs in the recession of 2008, we weren't even involved and didnt do the stupid mortgages or anything and we still had to suffer??!! You can argue all you want about who was to blame for the recession but it wasn't Canadians! 2008-2012 were the WORST years of my life financially and it had EVERYTHING to do with "the recession" which was largely caused by greed on your soil and nothing to do with what anyone in Canada did...yet we are completely without recourse other than to try to appeal to our neighbours down south to vote and take hold of your own country. THis is serious my friend and it isnt condescending in the least, as I dont blame the victims as much as the psychopaths. You can take it that way if you wish but I am just a little flabbergasted that you finally have a clear choice in Bernie, others are jumping on board, and yet there are those that buy the desperate attempt by establishment to try to get their gravy train back on track....a movement from the people is the exact opposite of what establishment wants and they are shaking in their boots make no mistake; they have become addicted to making as much money as possible for the least amount of effort. To a large degree Reich and Bernie et al have already won a large chunk of clawback, but it would be better if Bernie got in power than not, it is obvious to most, don't even try to deny that foreigners don't know what's going on, its actually just the opposite or the psychopaths wouldn't be able to do what they do....People who are educated like getting to the bottom of what is really going on....especially when it affects them personally. I absolutely love this site as it tends to lean left, but I am more than a little shocked that there are as many Hillary supporters as there are. Shocked isnt condescending, its just shocked.

THere are smart and educated Americans and they state their opinion also you know..where do you think I get a lot of my information from, a lot of it comes from the states i.e. Reich's books, you tube channels etc.? This guy is pure gold...unlike the main young turks he tells like it is every time and avoids propaganda..I dont think I have disagreed with him on anything much at all ever, and even though he is pro secularism, he calls out atheists who are overboard as well..

 

[Monocle]

what does it matter how she "handles" herself in debates etc. when she doesn't believe a word of it! Do you understand the definition of a psychopath??? Some people cant be bought, Hillary isnt one of them. Her history speaks for itself...why do you think Bernie even bothered at his age? Its not like if she was an acceptable alternative he would feel he had to run against her, he could just help her cause...her cause aint worth supporting. SHe is the problem in America today...Bernie knows it, and despite that he has to maintain his P's and Q's in support for the democratic party, he wouldn't have run if Hillary was an acceptable alternative

This psychopath talk is ridiculously over the top. Just totally untethered.

What part of Hillary's history speaks for itself?

You Hillary hopefuls are so easy to eat up the establishment BS...Bernie would be a whole lot more "effectual " (whatever you think that means, its a right wing smear meme that means nothing to me) than ANY alternative......the only person they fear is Bernie. His position as a senator is less fearsome than if he were a President, the idea that "he wont do anything anyway is a FEEBLE excuse, as there are no alternatives regardless...he still is better than any alternative, and with the wave of information crushing right wing ideology at present, you may only have 20-30 more years left of the BS....HIllary stalls progress for as many years as she stays in, pretending to work hard but just collecting cheques the whole time and planning her speech tour, similar to Obama, who did a whole lot less than people thought he was going to with the powerful position he holds, but still has done WAAY more than Hillary would have done. Yes it takes time, but people backing Bernie are plentiful and there will be more and more in the future one way or another. Might as well start the movement and build on what little Obama did rather than take a step backward.

Hillary laughing all the way to the bank

You have an exceptionally poor grasp of our situation. The reason Bernie would be an ineffectual president is Congress would obstruct him just like they did Obama. What's your solution to that? What's going to be different? Are you prepared to tell me American conservatives will let themselves be seen cooperating with a self-described socialist? That word is toxic in this country. It's not an excuse, it's reality. Face it or don't. It's true either way.

You seem pretty certain about your predictions for Hillary's presidency. Let's get specific. Why don't you give me two or three examples of how she's stalled progress to enrich herself, with sources? Same for Obama, while you're at it.

The GOP is immune to information. It doesn't acknowledge facts. What's this wave of information you speak of supposed to do? It sure hasn't reached the fools and bigots who support people like Cruz and Trump because they see them promoting American exceptionalism, xenophobia, and an utter lack of empathy for minorities and women. In 20 or 30 years, a bunch of old people will have died off. That's what will strike a decisive blow to the GOP, if it somehow manages to stagger on for that long in its current state, not information.

Are you really criticizing Obama for not achieving enough? As though he could have twirled an American flag and dissolved the ranks of hysterical conservative opposition? Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, Obama's "powerful position" is not a dictatorship. No one could have predicted the sustained stonewalling he had to face. It's not Obama's fault that Republicans made it their policy to block him no matter what, at any cost, even if they had to shut down the government.

Bernie's movement has already started. He doesn't need to be president to get the ball rolling. And Hillary's presidency would hardly be a step backward. At worst she'll facilitate modest social progress while safeguarding Obama's accomplishments. We need a tough leader who can handle the GOP's bullshit long enough for it to finish eating itself or reject the far right extremism that's hijacked the party. Bernie's the wrong person for the job.

 

[illusionspark]

You have an exceptionally poor grasp of our situation. The reason Bernie would be an ineffectual president is Congress would obstruct him just like they did Obama. What's your solution to that? What's going to be different? Are you prepared to tell me American conservatives will let themselves be seen cooperating with a self-described socialist? That word is toxic in this country. It's not an excuse, it's reality. Face it or don't. It's true either way.

Why does this keep being brought up as a point against Bernie specifically? Hilary will have to face the same people in congress. Did you forget that? If she squeeks by with the presidential nomination, you honesty believe she would be able to get more done than Bernie when they're dealing with the same politicians? I don't see republicans supporting Hilary like they do Bernie. That should tell you that at least conservatives have a bit more of an open mind towards Bernie. Which to me means they might be more willing to compromise with him than they will with her.

 

[benjipwns]

Why does this keep being brought up as a point against Bernie specifically? Hilary will have to face the same people in congress. Did you forget that? If she squeeks by with the presidential nomination, you honesty believe she would be able to get more done than Bernie when they're dealing with the same politicians?

Yeah, she'll outmaneuver them by working the system.

 

[SamVimes]

Just to counter the berniebros narravite a little:
https://medium.com/@lleeiii/this-is...bernie-sanders-online-42b642ba673f#.hpr7cebfs

And no, i don't think this reflects on clinton in any way.

 

[2AdEPT]

This psychopath talk is ridiculously over the top. Just totally untethered.

What part of Hillary's history speaks for itself?


You have an exceptionally poor grasp of our situation. The reason Bernie would be an ineffectual president is Congress would obstruct him just like they did Obama. What's your solution to that? What's going to be different? Are you prepared to tell me American conservatives will let themselves be seen cooperating with a self-described socialist? That word is toxic in this country. It's not an excuse, it's reality. Face it or don't. It's true either way.

You seem pretty certain about your predictions for Hillary's presidency. Let's get specific. Why don't you give me two or three examples of how she's stalled progress to enrich herself, with sources? Same for Obama, while you're at it.

The GOP is immune to information. It doesn't acknowledge facts. What's this wave of information you speak of supposed to do? It sure hasn't reached the fools and bigots who support people like Cruz and Trump because they see them promoting American exceptionalism, xenophobia, and an utter lack of empathy for minorities and women. In 20 or 30 years, a bunch of old people will have died off. That's what will strike a decisive blow to the GOP, if it somehow manages to stagger on for that long in its current state, not information.

Are you really criticizing Obama for not achieving enough? As though he could have twirled an American flag and dissolved the ranks of hysterical conservative opposition? Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, Obama's "powerful position" is not a dictatorship. No one could have predicted the sustained stonewalling he had to face. It's not Obama's fault that Republicans made it their policy to block him no matter what, at any cost, even if they had to shut down the government.

Bernie's movement has already started. He doesn't need to be president to get the ball rolling. And Hillary's presidency would hardly be a step backward. At worst she'll facilitate modest social progress while safeguarding Obama's accomplishments. We need a tough leader who can handle the GOP's bullshit long enough for it to finish eating itself or reject the far right extremism that's hijacked the party. Bernie's the wrong person for the job.

http://www.*****************/news/a...llary-Clintons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html

LOL...you tell me...I have a link from 2008 that obviously some establishment screening program has obstructed...I cant get it to go up without all those stars..but you can see the topic. LOL oops it almost worked this time when I added a few words, it wont hot link but you can paste in your browser?:

whitewater, travelgate
http://www.*****************/news/a...intons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html

LOL...someone doesnt want this link flying around the internet right now!

Lets try this one:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-brief-guide-to-clinton-scandals/article/2562906

THere is the above, there is Monica Lewinski, the list is tireless..................there is selling out to pharma and dropping single payer, there is waffling on LGTB issues...did you watch the video above? ITs really her saying all that double talk not an actor!

My Grasp isnt what is lacking here, although there appears to be a huge difference in logic about how to get what is ethical and just implemented in office. You dig your own grave by advocating collusion and backhanded tactics? I don't have to answer you anything, but you still haven't addressed why Bernie even had to run at all if he didnt think Hillary was corrupt? He could have just supported her if she was acceptable!

My largest reason for doubting both Clintons is Robert Reich was their friend and he quit before they were ousted from office. But seriously, just to watch her lying through her teeth every time she is on these debates disgusts me...and then every time i do a search like this I get a worse and worse impression. Your ideas are easy to "Grasp" I just dont agree with them. LOL

 

[leroidys]

http://www.*****************/news/a...llary-Clintons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html

LOL...you tell me...I have a link from 2008 that obviously some establishment screening program has obstructed...I cant get it to go up without all those stars..but you can see the topic. LOL oops it almost worked this time when I added a few words, it wont hot link but you can paste in your browser?:

whitewater, travelgate
http://www.*****************/news/a...intons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html

LOL...someone doesnt want this link flying around the internet right now!

Lets try this one:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-brief-guide-to-clinton-scandals/article/2562906

THere is the above, there is Monica Lewinski, the list is tireless..................there is selling out to pharma and dropping single payer, there is waffling on LGTB issues...did you watch the video above? ITs really her saying all that double talk not an actor!

My Grasp isnt what is lacking here, although there appears to be a huge difference in logic about how to get what is ethical and just implemented in office. You dig your own grave by advocating collusion and backhanded tactics? I don't have to answer you anything, but you still haven't addressed why Bernie even had to run at all if he didnt think Hillary was corrupt? He could have just supported her if she was acceptable!

My largest reason for doubting both Clintons is Robert Reich was their friend and he quit before they were ousted from office. But seriously, just to watch her lying through her teeth every time she is on these debates disgusts me...and then every time i do a search like this I get a worse and worse impression. Your ideas are easy to "Grasp" I just dont agree with them. LOL

Dailymail is a blocked website on NeoGAF because it often publishes completely false or unsubstantiated stories.

 

[Dude Abides]

Establishment screening program. Is there anywhere the Clintonoid tentacles don't reach?

 

[Oddish1]

Just to counter the berniebros narravite a little:
https://medium.com/@lleeiii/this-is...bernie-sanders-online-42b642ba673f#.hpr7cebfs

And no, i don't think this reflects on clinton in any way.

Wait, how do they know those comments come from Clinton supporters? I see one that mentions Hillary as the "former Secretary of State" but other than that they could come from anyone who doesn't like Bernie.

 

[goomba]

Dailymail is a blocked website on NeoGAF because it often publishes completely false or unsubstantiated stories.

yet fox news isn't blocked..

 

[Kathian]

yet fox news isn't blocked..

I don't actually know of any US centric sites that's are blocked; its frustrating as sometimes there are stories in the Daily Mail that should not just be treated as biased nonsense.