The Lamonster
Member
haha I never considered that to be a constraint of the engine but it makes sense.
Destiny: Rise of Iron - Launch Trailer
- Thread starter hydruxo
- Start date
haha I never considered that to be a constraint of the engine but it makes sense.
Kor of Memory
Member
Yes and No.
Last gen really restricted the way the zones of the maps worked. So instead of having these huge connecting zones, we got all these chunks connected via callways, valleys, and corridors.
You can tell in one of the first videos where they showed the Spider Tank. You can see a group of Guardians arrive from over the side of the wall that would be "The Blast" zone. We know now that this isn't an actual connection. To go from the Divide to the Blast you have to go through the Rocker Yards and some interior areas.
Plus, when you have enemy limits, telling you you only get to have 28 enemies per zone, you're not going to build a great big zone that's mostly barren since you can't really fill it.
Well, the workflow and iteration time is a big problem, but the engine itself is pretty great. They acknowledged the issues early on during a GDC talk, it wasn't until Schreier's piece that we got an actual idea about those issues. I do think that it's inherent to bespoke in house technology. If I recall correctly, there was also a big issue being able to process all the created content when Bungie ramped up production. If they tackled this for D2 then I'm really looking forward to what they have in store. It makes sense to believe that Bungie has been improving their tools, I think RoI is a small preview of what a relative small team can create at this 'moment'.
Raven117
Member
I like them too. The bridge more so than Golgoroth, but yeah. I hope they bring back the design of Vault of Glass more so than King's Fall. King's Fall was simply too exacting (especially Oryx) and too tedious to be fun. Every fight played out the exact same way.
Atheon and Crota at least had some wiggle, some give...that made it all more interesting and fun to play. (Especially Atheon).
I mean at some point the encounter is still damage the big dude. You say it doesn't feel dynamic while calling much of Vault of Glass as such even I don't see how they have any more methods. Charge the relic, take down Shields, damage templar. Get out of time rift alive, shoot Atheon. It all still comes down to shoot the big dude. Golgoroth is flexible in how you can shift positions and roles on the fly insanely quick and a death of a player is not immediate failure. Templar is similar but it is not "more" dynamic in any way. I would say having more defined roles that can swap fluidly between players is part of King's Fall's strength. It's why I like the daughters as well.
I always thought it backwards that the daughters was the random relic holder encounter and not Oryx. Makes far more sense to have progression lead into everyone being adept at that role than funneling down to it.
I think we're saying the same thing. Current gen will be able to scale up many facets, but that won't change the underlying technology and its architecture. It will still 'hub' based, flipping between shared and private instances of areas. I was more referring to the famous 'see that mountain? You can go there' which sounded more like a silly marketing message. My point is that it was never designed to be an open world comparable to a Bethesda of Rockstar game.
The only flaw with Oryx is that the damage (e.g. Progression within the encounter) is fixed and non flexible. I get what they were going for but there was definitely a more elegant and fun solution than bomb detonation.
Kor of Memory
Member
That poor quote.
Misunderstood for all of eternity. The guy was just trying to brag about their background graphics. Like, his literally next words are, "That's not a skybox, that's actual geometry" or something like that.
The bridge in Croats end?
Where you have to hold the pressure pads down?
OR:
Just cheese it and get it over with in 2 minutes.
Croats end from start to finish was pretty pathetic, cheese the first level by walking round the edge of the map, hopping on the rock at the end, sniping the two ogres, job done.
Failing that, ONE hunter starts the level with blade dancer and Kapris sting (the gloves with the bugs on) runs through the whole level invisible and hops on the rock etc etc.
Bridge, fire team jumps on top on the castle, one player stays behind forces adds to spawn, sucides, ads despawn, you only have to kill the gate keeper.
One player runs across the bridge, literally sits down and does nothing and the rest of the team snipes the ads from the other side, Job done.
Hall way - Jellyhorn.
Witches- Jellyhorn.
Croata, ward of dawn, ledge, jellyhorn.
Profit.
Awful, awful raid.
The kings fall/end what ever it's called is better, but it's just far, far too long, and gets pretty boring very quickly.
irrotational
Member
In terms of the switch from D1 to D2 my wish list would be:-
Bring over
1. The character design (face, race hair colour etc) but bring in an option to change it all
2. Some record of achievements from years 1 to 3
3. A trophy case or collection of all the loot I got in D1.
I don't actually want to use it, or don't mind not being able to use it, but I want a record that I managed to get gjallarhorn but not fatebringer.
I have also collected most of the raid weapons, and have some armour odd and sods that remind me of good trials runs.
4. Faction rep - most people have a long way to go to 25 on each faction.
Don't bring over
1. Char level or light level
2. Useable loot
3. Classes(?) Not fussed wither way on this one. It would feel a bit shitty to start a new game without jump or melee or grenade...
4. Previous "tat" like mouldering shards, ass energy, or radiant doodads.
5. Legendary marks - I assume there will be a new currency.
Bring over
1. The character design (face, race hair colour etc) but bring in an option to change it all
2. Some record of achievements from years 1 to 3
3. A trophy case or collection of all the loot I got in D1.
I don't actually want to use it, or don't mind not being able to use it, but I want a record that I managed to get gjallarhorn but not fatebringer.
I have also collected most of the raid weapons, and have some armour odd and sods that remind me of good trials runs.
4. Faction rep - most people have a long way to go to 25 on each faction.
Don't bring over
1. Char level or light level
2. Useable loot
3. Classes(?) Not fussed wither way on this one. It would feel a bit shitty to start a new game without jump or melee or grenade...
4. Previous "tat" like mouldering shards, ass energy, or radiant doodads.
5. Legendary marks - I assume there will be a new currency.
I can see few things, or a combination of a few things happening:
-only grimoire score will carry over
-characters carry over, but everything will be reset because of 'story reasons'
-changed or new subclasses (I do think that it will be very hard to balance another subclass per class)
-all content will be new
-content might include reused assets
To be honest, I wouldn't mind if Bungie found a way to keep most of the existing stuff and just expand on that, I would love to see a gigantic playground in a few years.
Grimoire score is the worst part of the game so I'd really prefer if they didn't bring that over. "Grind 100 rumble wins hurr durr".
The Lamonster
Member
Kor of Memory
Member
Can now be done in private/custom games.
yeah it has its own issues, but it is pretty much the only metric that resembles a relationship between 'time investment' and 'in-game goals'; or progression. Since everything is running on Bungie's servers it would be the easiest thing to carry over.
Melchiah
Member
So, that's why that happens.
lol Great summary of that raid. It honestly should have been a strike, but it is the big setup for TTK story and needed to have an impact. I honestly have more fun running KF's on normal than HM than VoG, but HM is the worse thing ever with the perfection is requires and frustration from all the glitches.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol I like Oryx but i can promise you no one is going to be rerunning Oryx hard mode after Rise of Iron comes out. Not like how people run Crota and Atheon for fun. You can finish both raids in 30-40 minutes. Perfect Oryx HM run takes 12 minutes itself. and one fuck up costs you the entire run.
Fuck that.
That said, the oracles and templar part is way too long as well. its like a 20 minute encounter.
Fuck that.
That said, the oracles and templar part is way too long as well. its like a 20 minute encounter.
Kor of Memory
Member
Yeah, but with elevated power levels, the odds of missing a bomb and going to drop, and killing the shade will go much faster.
anothertech
Member
Nope. Just that theyre reskins. And it's not implied, sadly it just is.
Would have been nice to have something more than reskins IMO.
Oryx fight is cool and all logistically but its my least favorite raid boss to run. It's just not that fun and like you said it's too involved for it's own good.
For me, Atheon is still their best raid boss to this day. Golgy is pretty good too.
That's my biggest problem with it, it's not a fun activity, and it's also waaaaaay to long.
I also haven't even bothered with the hard version of it, simply because of the utterly pitiful rewards on offer.
Once you've got all the exotics and are within say 30 points of the power level cap, you don't need to bother chasing higher numbers.
All three of my characters are 300 ish, I don't need the night fall, it has nothing to offer rewards wise, and bacause of the incredibly relaxed power curve in the iron Banner you literally have no power disadvantage.
Trials gets you some interesting gear and guns there are no real use for, so yeah.
It's how I learned to stop grinding and just play it every now and again for fun.
Kor of Memory
Member
I think Aetheon was a great example of a PvE mechanic that took Bungie's 30 seconds of fun idea and applied it in a great way.
You spend 30 seconds dealing with Atheon, then 30 seconds traveling through time or whatever. So it breaks up the pace of the fight really well.
Oryx stretched it out too far.
The 30 seconds of fun was being stretched out to like 90 seconds or so for a single phase, which really makes people feel like the encounter is dragging.
You spend 30 seconds dealing with Atheon, then 30 seconds traveling through time or whatever. So it breaks up the pace of the fight really well.
Oryx stretched it out too far.
The 30 seconds of fun was being stretched out to like 90 seconds or so for a single phase, which really makes people feel like the encounter is dragging.
UltimateUnknown
Member
Despite the hate Crota's End gets for being the worst raid, I think it actually could have been the most fun. The raid unfortunately suffered from two glaring issues:
1) The cheese factor. Bungie clearly did not have enough time to make this raid (as noted by sources) and it showed. Literally every part of the raid was cheesable at some point and even at the end of its life cycle Bungie never did fix all of the cheeses. Somewhere down the line they just gave up, which is truly sad. If not for all the cheeses each of the individual segment of the raid is very fast paced and action packed and rewarded good teams by allowing them to run through the raid super fast, unlike VoG and KF where you HAVE to spend a certain amount of time doing Oracles and bomb detonation. I really liked this aspect of CE which got completely ruined by cheeses, making the fun and fast paced mechanics completely redundant for large parts of the raid's life cycle.
2) Ghorn: Ghorn ruined a lot of encounters in year 1 but nothing was more affected than Crota. If the Ghorn didn't exist and the general effectively of the launchers against Crota was decreased, he would have been a much more formidable opponent. You would then have to actually focus fire and communicate better with the sword wielder as to when Crota could actually be attacked.
1) The cheese factor. Bungie clearly did not have enough time to make this raid (as noted by sources) and it showed. Literally every part of the raid was cheesable at some point and even at the end of its life cycle Bungie never did fix all of the cheeses. Somewhere down the line they just gave up, which is truly sad. If not for all the cheeses each of the individual segment of the raid is very fast paced and action packed and rewarded good teams by allowing them to run through the raid super fast, unlike VoG and KF where you HAVE to spend a certain amount of time doing Oracles and bomb detonation. I really liked this aspect of CE which got completely ruined by cheeses, making the fun and fast paced mechanics completely redundant for large parts of the raid's life cycle.
2) Ghorn: Ghorn ruined a lot of encounters in year 1 but nothing was more affected than Crota. If the Ghorn didn't exist and the general effectively of the launchers against Crota was decreased, he would have been a much more formidable opponent. You would then have to actually focus fire and communicate better with the sword wielder as to when Crota could actually be attacked.