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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
- Start date
I'd be okay with this.
So, I'm really enjoying playing as Lady, but I've had a hard time with the two bosses I've fought so far (fire guy and frog guy).
What's some of the better strategies for the electricity guys? I feel like I'm missing something obvious with how you deal with them. Do you just shoot them and dodge until their electric shield is down?
What's some of the better strategies for the electricity guys? I feel like I'm missing something obvious with how you deal with them. Do you just shoot them and dodge until their electric shield is down?
BumblebeeCody
Member
Not very happy with Vergil. Something seemed off but couldn't quite put my finger on it.
Been talking to a few other players and we came up with a few points.
- So one problem is the controls. Vergil doesn't have enough control options to shoot this combat. Now this is coming from me who has played DmC Vergil extensively and found a good control scheme that fits what he is intended to do. But compared to DMC4Vergil he is missing that level of control. The comparison is fair because the both have near identical move sets. This follows in point two...
- Trick. DmC Vergil has trick up and trick down(dodge)as well as the double teleport to/grab with his embed swords. Trick in DmC allows the player to move in any direction with then allows for mechanics like "blinking" to be in the game. However DMC4 can only trick up or towards an (sword embedded) enemy. As a result you can't trick away but can only trick to. This means dodging is always risky*(point 2 continuation). He lacks the trick manoeuvrability.
- Iframes. (Point two continuation) not a new Apple product but how Vergil's invincibility frames need to be tweaked to not b as "broken" as they are but more along the lines of Trickster.
Swords - terrible controls and I think I know the solution. Since DMC4 Vergil is can only attack with two simultaneous actions (Vergil + Swords) as opposed to DmC Vergil who can use 3 (Vergil + Swords + Doppleganger), he has the DPad spare to use. With DPad up you can assign Sword Rain and with DPad down you can assign Sword Crown. DPad- Left/Roght for Rapid Sword Fire. The main reason being that having to hold a direction + hold ranged attack down doesn't quite work when you want to summon swords or fire. Experienced DMC4 players are well versed at using the DPad, so Vergil having this usable would aliviate the summon swords mess. Holding swords just doesn't work.
-Interia gained. Not sure why but it seemed Neo_G or whoever acknowledged Interia as a mechanic and integrated into Vergil's movement. This especially obvious when it comes to running > [not locking on] Trick. No idea but his Interia gained is huge which doesn't seem make much sense when compared Nero and Dante who have to gain Interia from doing moves like FH > JC (rainstorm/fly guard etc). Vergil just glides around in the air making him harder to control. No idea. This isn't Smash Bros.
Haven't looked into his frame data stuff yet but he does need "taming/balancing".
Been talking to a few other players and we came up with a few points.
- So one problem is the controls. Vergil doesn't have enough control options to shoot this combat. Now this is coming from me who has played DmC Vergil extensively and found a good control scheme that fits what he is intended to do. But compared to DMC4Vergil he is missing that level of control. The comparison is fair because the both have near identical move sets. This follows in point two...
- Trick. DmC Vergil has trick up and trick down(dodge)as well as the double teleport to/grab with his embed swords. Trick in DmC allows the player to move in any direction with then allows for mechanics like "blinking" to be in the game. However DMC4 can only trick up or towards an (sword embedded) enemy. As a result you can't trick away but can only trick to. This means dodging is always risky*(point 2 continuation). He lacks the trick manoeuvrability.
- Iframes. (Point two continuation) not a new Apple product but how Vergil's invincibility frames need to be tweaked to not b as "broken" as they are but more along the lines of Trickster.
Swords - terrible controls and I think I know the solution. Since DMC4 Vergil is can only attack with two simultaneous actions (Vergil + Swords) as opposed to DmC Vergil who can use 3 (Vergil + Swords + Doppleganger), he has the DPad spare to use. With DPad up you can assign Sword Rain and with DPad down you can assign Sword Crown. DPad- Left/Roght for Rapid Sword Fire. The main reason being that having to hold a direction + hold ranged attack down doesn't quite work when you want to summon swords or fire. Experienced DMC4 players are well versed at using the DPad, so Vergil having this usable would aliviate the summon swords mess. Holding swords just doesn't work.
-Interia gained. Not sure why but it seemed Neo_G or whoever acknowledged Interia as a mechanic and integrated into Vergil's movement. This especially obvious when it comes to running > [not locking on] Trick. No idea but his Interia gained is huge which doesn't seem make much sense when compared Nero and Dante who have to gain Interia from doing moves like FH > JC (rainstorm/fly guard etc). Vergil just glides around in the air making him harder to control. No idea. This isn't Smash Bros.
Haven't looked into his frame data stuff yet but he does need "taming/balancing".
Yeah you have to take the shield down first. You can take it down very quickly by firing Charge Shot 3 shotgun shots from close range. Charge shot with the handguns works too and can be done at long range.
Once the shield is down you can shoot him with fully charged Kalin Ann. Her DT takes a good chunk too and charged shotgun works as well.
Blitz goes down fast with Lady.
Okay, I tried it. Doesn't really work against bosses, though. Since when you lock-on, Lady doesn't move her reticle.
Ah yes, definitely was. I never used charged shots much, so I never think to use them.
This was the hardest adjustment I had to make with Lady as well.
NoctisVsStar
Member
justjustin
Member
The switch to Trish is tricky after dominating with Lady's shotgun. Still, I feel like I made the right decision going straight into LDK difficulty with these two as it feels like they were made for crowd control. I like corralling hoards of enemies and then going to town.
Sad part is I had no idea how to kill the reapers or the warping electricity guys when I first encountered them as Trish because with Lady it was all guns all the time. I never realized they had a "barrier" that had to be removed with gunfire. Of course it's been like that since DMC1 but it's been about 7 years since I played one.
My only gripe with the Special Edition are the rule changes outside the game, so to speak. Like having orb/life/magic values tied to all characters makes it impossible to start fresh. I guess I could make more PSN accounts and start new that way? I also don't like the enemy handicap thing at all, it kicks in way too early and it shouldn't even exist. As soon as I get the pattern down and form a reliable strategy the enemies are nerfed or bosses' harder patterns don't activate as soon. Very lame, I'm playing a slightly gimped version sometimes. People who love action games are ready to die, repeat and play better (I am!), so I don't get why babby mode is enforced.
Not a fan of how I have to unlock things, either, but that's not a problem with this game in particular. I don't like the culture surrounding all these action games of having to play them 3+ times until they become most fun. I'm ready to move on after one or two playthroughs so it takes years for me to experience the best modes and see what it really has to offer. It'll be the same with this game, unfortunately. I like it when games offer the optimal experience up front, and I can't think of a single modern action game that does that. I'd rather play the best difficulty 10 times in a row than waste time with some inferior ones to get "warmed up" on. I don't think anything would be lost by having everything available at the start. Well, I guess you can have everything unlocked upfront with DMC4SE if you want to pay a few more bucks. In hindsight I should've done that, but at the same time it feels wrong to pay for stuff I know I can unlock myself.
Sad part is I had no idea how to kill the reapers or the warping electricity guys when I first encountered them as Trish because with Lady it was all guns all the time. I never realized they had a "barrier" that had to be removed with gunfire. Of course it's been like that since DMC1 but it's been about 7 years since I played one.
My only gripe with the Special Edition are the rule changes outside the game, so to speak. Like having orb/life/magic values tied to all characters makes it impossible to start fresh. I guess I could make more PSN accounts and start new that way? I also don't like the enemy handicap thing at all, it kicks in way too early and it shouldn't even exist. As soon as I get the pattern down and form a reliable strategy the enemies are nerfed or bosses' harder patterns don't activate as soon. Very lame, I'm playing a slightly gimped version sometimes. People who love action games are ready to die, repeat and play better (I am!), so I don't get why babby mode is enforced.
Not a fan of how I have to unlock things, either, but that's not a problem with this game in particular. I don't like the culture surrounding all these action games of having to play them 3+ times until they become most fun. I'm ready to move on after one or two playthroughs so it takes years for me to experience the best modes and see what it really has to offer. It'll be the same with this game, unfortunately. I like it when games offer the optimal experience up front, and I can't think of a single modern action game that does that. I'd rather play the best difficulty 10 times in a row than waste time with some inferior ones to get "warmed up" on. I don't think anything would be lost by having everything available at the start. Well, I guess you can have everything unlocked upfront with DMC4SE if you want to pay a few more bucks. In hindsight I should've done that, but at the same time it feels wrong to pay for stuff I know I can unlock myself.
He STILL needs more power!
direct_quote
Member
I wonder if the down trick in devil trigger was a balance decision. Make Vergil's offense insanely strong but give him trouble evading moves with longer animations, unless he's in devil trigger of course.. Still wish it wasn't devil trigger exclusive though..
The side dash in DT makes sense, it would be broken if it was available as a regular option. The Trick Back being in DT doesn't make much sense, it was available in DMC3 as a regular move and that by itself was not broken at all (despite DMC3 Vergil also being broken but that wasn't why he was broken).
It's pretty obvious Capcom didn't give a fuck about balancing in this game when they let stuff like DRI + Full Steam + Fly guards rock after 7 years. FFS they also let RED ORB RANKINGS ROCK! Vergil was basically built on top of that stuff. Vergil was basically made because Itsuno saw some Doguri Dante videos and said "I want regular people to be able to do that as well" so he gave us DMC4SE Vergil. That's why Vergil is how he is in DMC4SE... his "standard" play is equivalent to what top level Dante play looks like in terms of speed and rushdown.
And I love it.
I have also experienced this. No idea if it's a glitch or if I'm crazy and wasn't breaking it properly. No clue.
The Silver
Member
If Vergil aint broken as fuck then he aint Vergil
NoctisVsStar
Member
Vergil needs more power.
Honestly, they should just "break" every character going forward. Like, why not give Dante infinite air tricks in DMC5? I mean, if Vergil can air trick cancel infinitely, why not? It's not like Dante can even cancel shit with his!
But really, Vergil's pretty good. I legitimately prefer playing Dante(I'm actually pretty good at style switching!), but he's a lot of fun and I would like to see more stuff like his teleport cancels in the future. Honestly, the biggest thing I'd change about DMC4:SE Vergil is that his concentration meter builds faster by just standing there staring at an enemy than it does actually comboing an enemy, which just feels wrong. Other than that, though, most everything else is just stupid gripes(Combo A feels like a pause combo to me. I don't want to do a pause combo for his old Combo A, god dammit).
But really, Vergil's pretty good. I legitimately prefer playing Dante(I'm actually pretty good at style switching!), but he's a lot of fun and I would like to see more stuff like his teleport cancels in the future. Honestly, the biggest thing I'd change about DMC4:SE Vergil is that his concentration meter builds faster by just standing there staring at an enemy than it does actually comboing an enemy, which just feels wrong. Other than that, though, most everything else is just stupid gripes(Combo A feels like a pause combo to me. I don't want to do a pause combo for his old Combo A, god dammit).
tempted to write a long ass thoughts/wishlist of all the characters and what i'd want/do for DMC5
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
To this day I still don't understand the savior fight. And it keeps fucking up my S rank runs because I always get an A on mission 18. Time and style need to be improved. Because you get an automatic S for orbs, if I can get my time to be S I'm good for the overall rank. Any tips?
Honestly, im not sure I like that approach to character balancing. I like characters being "broken" but I appreciate it more when you have to work to get them at that broken state.
Despite the unrivaled over the top action, DMC has always been more grounded and reserved. There are more rules that can be broken in unique and limited ways. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
DMC4SE is different because it's clearly a testing ground for things moving forward, but I actually enjoy overcoming limitations and having different characters exhibit different limitations.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I admit I'm kind of confused. A major complaint a lot of people had with DmC was that it had really bad balance and you could easily cheese through enemies (easy Infinite parry on Dream Runners, easy air time, easy spam moves, easy stun moves, infinite air time, etc) yet now when Vergil seems to be actively broken by all accounts, people want him to be even more broken in a sequel? Granted, I won't be able to play for a few weeks so I'll reserve judgement on the actual character mechanics until then, but people seem to be rather happy that Vergil is super broken.
For Dante, cheese the Savior with lock-on + Drive then style the hell out of all enemies that appear when he's down. That's what I do for ranked runs. Would probably work with Trish too.
For Dante, cheese the Savior with lock-on + Drive then style the hell out of all enemies that appear when he's down. That's what I do for ranked runs. Would probably work with Trish too.
Here's the trick I used (found it on another forum way back):
- On the platform where Dante starts the fight, Savior keeps shooting blue fireballs
- Just stand there and mash shoot with Ebony and Ivory and the blue fireballs will get deflected
- This doesn't give you style points but really increases your style rank so keep doing it until you get to S style rank
- When you knock Saviour over and are jumping from platform to platform to destroy the blue jewels, there is a small platform with a single golden Angelo
- After you get the S rank in the beginning, make your way to this Angelo (while avoiding being hit, so as not to lose the S style rank) and then defeat him without getting hit. Doing so will give you more than enough points to get S rank for style
- Then just defeat Saviour to finish the fight.
Got SSS rank from first trying using the above method.
Vergil is an extra character though. Original DMC4 was mostly fine though it was also not properly balanced or playtested either. It's pretty obvious that they are just testing out stuff.
No one cares that Vergil was broken in DmC as well because it was a side campaign.
Also another thing is that there's one thing to be broken but requires skill and another thing to be broken and require little skill. That was the original DmC with Demon Dodge and Arbiter Trinity Smash for insane damage on bosses. DmC DE is fine now, way less exploitable and far more skilled based so its fine.
ShinMaruku
Member
MIGHT IS EVERYTHING!
I was only being half-serious. I definitely don't want every character to be broken like Vergil, but some "broken-ness" for everyone can't hurt - so long as it isn't straight up OP and makes the game a breeze or whatever.
And without strength, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
In order to have Vergil break the game in DMC4se requires a certain degree of character mastery / skill. Certain things in DmC particularly the vanilla version allowed you to break the game with minimal skill / execution.
ArclightBorealis
Member
The thing I appreciate with vergil being "broken" in this is that, building on top of what Dahbomb already mentioned, his tools are such that the part of the campaign where you're going back through as Dante is more tolerable because it's still the same character and you don't have to change your strategies for bosses clearly designed for another character with different strengths and weaknesses. That always threw me off when the switch to Dante happened, and the same thing happened to a lesser extent going from Lady to Trish. The repetition and other bullshit isn't fixed, but the additions and increase in speed helps in making those parts more bearable, because Vergil gives you more immediate opportunities to break shit open and be done with it.
The only way Vergil in his current state could be retained in future games would be to keep him relegated to an optional character or bonus campaign, because he is designed with the intent that you've already gone through the game as the main character already and you get something new to mess around with (while still having plenty of depth of his own).
The only way Vergil in his current state could be retained in future games would be to keep him relegated to an optional character or bonus campaign, because he is designed with the intent that you've already gone through the game as the main character already and you get something new to mess around with (while still having plenty of depth of his own).
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
True, makes sense. I'll be reserving true judgement in a month when I get to the characters, I was just making an observation.
Vergil should be retained as is from DMC4 with some tweaks (like he shouldn't have stuff like Distortion or 0 frame Summoned Swords) for DMC5 but everything else needs to be quicker/faster/more aggressive at the higher difficulties.
A game where the enemies can some what keep up with DMC4 Vergil and Dante? That would be the GOAT action game.
A game where the enemies can some what keep up with DMC4 Vergil and Dante? That would be the GOAT action game.
direct_quote
Member
Put Vergil in Ninja Gaiden 2.
Man the build quality on the stock PS4 controllers is pretty bad. My left analog stick is already falling apart and I see shavings of it on my controller after like an hour of play. I think I may pick up the new Hori Pad FPS Plus that is coming out soon as it's the first 3rd party controller with a touchpad and it looks like it'd be a lot more responsive and accurate for action and FPS games.
ArclightBorealis
Member
Oh god, the idea of that just makes me go nuts beyond belief. Hell, give some of Ryu's weapons to Vergil and let him go wild with them.
I just finished setting up a system where the game will automatically cycle through various tracks in the game rather than only ever playing "The time has come and so have I" or "Bring the fables from thy tomb." I'm assuming I'm not the only one who's tired of hearing those 2 tracks.
I added it to my mod manager / trainer: http://www.tzarsectus.com/tools/modmanager.rar
You'll need this work-in-progress version: http://www.tzarsectus.com/WIP/Modmanager.exe (replace the executable with this one)
It should be straightforward to use. Start mod manager, select "DMC4 Special Edition" as game, activate trainer, and activate the music randomizer.
It works by replacing the Nero and Dante combat music at set intervals (the new music will loop correctly). You can select which tracks it'll switch between.
I added it to my mod manager / trainer: http://www.tzarsectus.com/tools/modmanager.rar
You'll need this work-in-progress version: http://www.tzarsectus.com/WIP/Modmanager.exe (replace the executable with this one)
It should be straightforward to use. Start mod manager, select "DMC4 Special Edition" as game, activate trainer, and activate the music randomizer.
It works by replacing the Nero and Dante combat music at set intervals (the new music will loop correctly). You can select which tracks it'll switch between.
This sounds awesome. Baroque and Beats, here I come.
ArclightBorealis
Member
Gonna hold on to this until I get the PC version later down the line. More music variety is always a good thing.
yarrmateys
Member
I would like for the relative differences between Dante and Vergil to revert back to how it was in DMC3. Just in 10 hours with the game, I can do stuff with Vergil that takes 200 hours of practice with Dante. In DMC3 Vergil has better DPS and is faster but Dante can keep up with some craftiness.
I think the streamlining/consolidation of his movesets instead of gating them behind styles would definitely help.
That said, removing any sort of complexity, even if it's for the better, inevitably lowers the skill ceiling. The biggest loss here would be the lack of opportunities for certain individuals (e.g. donguri) mastering byzantine combat systems and showing them off to the world.
#teambuffDante
I think the streamlining/consolidation of his movesets instead of gating them behind styles would definitely help.
That said, removing any sort of complexity, even if it's for the better, inevitably lowers the skill ceiling. The biggest loss here would be the lack of opportunities for certain individuals (e.g. donguri) mastering byzantine combat systems and showing them off to the world.
#teambuffDante
BumblebeeCody
Member
Nope. Regardless of Devil Trigger, he should have that without havin to e in DT. Not to mention that Trick still pulls you towards the enemy. It should be a choice.
Also as for him needing balancing, yeah he does. He feels rushed and nOT properly implemented into the mechanics of DMC4. The only character that feels finished is Trish since she's Gilgamesh/Swordmaster + Pandora. Both Lady and Vergil feel unfinished an untested.
As for Interia, that wasn't my point. It's the way Vergil utilise it? Many other people I've been talkin all agree tht Vergil is unfinished. He needs to be rebalanced. He's a mess.
Add more characters. Add Arkham dammit.
Edit: I forgot to add. What moron on Itsunos team thought it's be a good idea to change the Lucifer glitch? That's is the worst thing about Dante. Why was it changed. Random number as opposed to 16hits. Dumb. (Yes I'm salty about that). That needs to be patched back in.
