DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis

Reiko said:
Didn't SuperDAE and MTW continually post that we're going to get updated specs soon on Durango?

From Kotaku nonetheless.

That's all I've been going by.

He really has nothing to gain for being a liar on Twitter. He'll just get trolled harder.

And then there's this post from Beyond 3D

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704614&postcount=1872
Click to expand...

Well he said kotaku will post an article soon (probably this month) that should reveal all the tweets he's been making about updated specs. We will basically know if he's full of crap or not. I really do hope both consoles have updated specs and some dedicated hardware we haven't seen yet. It's a long shot but there's still plenty we don't know.
 
Spongebob said:
This just confirms everything that I've been fearing recently.

Multiplats will likely look/run better on Orbis and Orbis exclusives will look significantly better than what you can find on Durango.
Click to expand...

I hear you bob. But hey, it makes our purchase of a PS4 that much easier :)
 
That whole used game thing is a tad more important than specs. The games are going to look the same except when wizards like Naughty Dog go to work.
 
Y2Kev has probably read my post history before.

The chances of me being a porn insider is greater than me being a videogame insider:/

If there is any info that someone told me I would willingly share. Like that BF4 leak.
 
Reiko said:
Yeah. His source says we're going to be in for some nice surprises on the 20th. Check his post history.

In the end I still see Orbis coming on top power wise. The only question is it significantly or slightly.
Click to expand...

Then again he also argued strongly that we wouldn't see the next Playstation till E3.
 
Reiko said:
Good point. The joke is on him if he's posting false info.

Is ERP from B3D (Sony Dev) hinting at PS4 having a heavily customized GPU instead of just being "off the shelf"?

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704840&postcount=1924

[speculating]
Click to expand...

There was no such hint. Stop quote mining and misinterpreting posts.

Reiko said:
Didn't SuperDAE and MTW continually post that we're going to get updated specs soon on Durango?

From Kotaku nonetheless.

That's all I've been going by.

He really has nothing to gain for being a liar on Twitter. He'll just get trolled harder.

And then there's this post from Beyond 3D

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704614&postcount=1872
Click to expand...

Again, you are doing classic conspiracy theory stuff. Selective memory, ignoring facts, confirmation bias, quote mining. Why are you interested in Shifty's opinion, because it agree with your bias? He doesn't know anything beyond what we know. The leaks are verified, very little is going to change. Final kits have shipped, the most either company can do is tweak clock speeds at this point.

The only unknown is not specs, but how the systems play out in the real world. Hang your hopes there, not secret hardware.
 
AgentP said:
There was no such hint. Stop quote mining and misinterpreting posts.
Click to expand...

I was only speculating. I put it after I posted.

Way to take the fun out of the thread. Can't speculate in a speculation thread.

This post was funny though after reading ERP's post.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704845&postcount=1926


AgentP said:
There was no such hint. Stop quote mining and misinterpreting posts.



Again, you are doing classic conspiracy theory stuff. Selective memory, ignoring facts, confirmation bias, quote mining. Why are you interested in Shifty's opinion, because it agree with your bias? He doesn't know anything beyond what we know. The leaks are verified, very little is going to change. Final kits have shipped, the most either company can do is tweak clock speeds at this point.

The only unknown is not specs, but how the systems play out in the real world. Hang your hopes there, not secret hardware.
Click to expand...

Fine. No more speculation.

These are the specs. Whatever we're reading right now is 100% final. Orbis>Durango.
 
The leaks are verified, very little is going to change. Final kits have shipped, the most either company can do is tweak clock speeds at this point.
Click to expand...

The leaks go back to a year ago for Durango, to when they were revealed during the Durango Summit that took place in february 2012. I don't know if those numbers described the dev kits or the target specs..
 
I hope they raise the clocks to 2 Ghz at least for the cpu. 1.6 ghz is pathetic no matter how you slice it. If Cpu cant do it's job then CUs will be used to compensate which means less resources for graphics rendering.
 
Reiko said:
Good point. The joke is on him if he's posting false info.

Is ERP from B3D (Sony Dev) hinting at PS4 having a heavily customized GPU instead of just being "off the shelf"?

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704840&postcount=1924

[speculating]
Click to expand...

I think what he meant is that even if you took a Pitcairn and just slapped a Jaguar onto it in the same die, it wouldn't classify as off the shelf since such a product doesn't exist so far.

There will always be some level of customisation, the question is how much besides making all the components being able to communicate with eachother.
 
BradleyLove said:
It's FUD to say 720p upscaled to 1080p is inherently bad.

I didn't state PS4 is capable of Pixar IQ. A Pixar bluray at 720p blows away any game rendered natively at 1080p.

I merely proposed that resolution alone is not an indicator of IQ, which is not FUD. With enough horsepower dedicated to AA, AF, etc, a 720p title can look cleaner and better than 1080p. That is not FUD, it is fact.

This "720p = bad" shit needs to go away; the quality of the source material is the most important facet.
Click to expand...

NO

insanely unrealisticly high resolutions downsampled to 720p is as far removed from 720p as it can possibly be. Calling that 720p and comparing that to rendering something in 720p is just stupid.

You used pixar movies as some kind of evidence that 720p can look good and insinuating that it has any bearing on videogames or any realtime graphics, you were being (very, very) disingenous.
actual 720p never looks good in games.

Rendering a game at a resolution way above 1080p and then downsampling to 720p to get 'great image quality' makes no sense either since the cost is exactly the same as outputting it at that high res, it would be cheaper to render at 1080p instead and you wouldn't have to lose fine detail by displaying less pixels.
And by just rendering it at 1080p (or 1080p with AA) you wouldn't get scaling artifacts or added input lag.... You downsample to native res, and you downsample to native res only because your monitor can't display the higher resolutions you downsample from.

And no, shitty post process AA will not make something look as good or better as 1080p, it will only serve to degrade image quality even further.

What you are doing is arguing semantics with the stupid pixar comparison which has no bearing on how games are rendered. aka fud.
Unless you plan to offline render the game at some hilarious resolution, then watch a video of the game being played... then by all means enjoy your video of a game.
 
Nachtmaer said:
I think what he meant is that even if you took a Pitcairn and just slapped a Jaguar onto it in the same die, it wouldn't classify as off the shelf since such a product doesn't exist so far.

There will always be some level of customisation, the question is how much besides making all the components being able to communicate with eachother.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. Excellent point.
 
i think MS's architecture of the nextbox will allow for full backward compatibility where its extremely unlikely the PS4 will be able to support the feature at all.
 
velociraptor said:
Nope. Won't make a difference.

Unless you have a plasma TV, where 720p material upscales beautifully.
Click to expand...

I guess, that is the reason why I was never really fussed about resolution.

THE:MILKMAN said:
Good to know. Thanks.



I'll wager that all first party games from MS/Sony will be 1080P native for at least the first 2 years or even all generation.
Click to expand...

Perhaps in the beginning but Studio Liverpool achieved great success with dynamic resolution for Wipeout HD and it is not unreasonable to assume that other first party studios will adopt the same technique. When it comes to fidelity, resolution would be the first to go.
 
ii Stryker said:
i think MS's architecture of the nextbox will allow for full backward compatibility where its extremely unlikely the PS4 will be able to support the feature at all.
Click to expand...

Why one and not the other? Why not both? Why any BC at all? (Apart of course of us wanting it)
 
DESTROYA said:
Maybe he's building them in his basement.
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I believe someone said that early dev kits were built by the devs themselves from specifications provided by Microsoft. Whether or not that's true I don't know, but it seems plausible. So potentially, he could of just gotten his hands on Durango documents and built them himself.
 
Proxy said:
I believe someone said that early dev kits were built by the devs themselves from specifications provided by Microsoft. Whether or not that's true I don't know, but it seems plausible. So potentially, he could of just gotten his hands on Durango documents and built them himself.
Click to expand...

So he's just pirating the SDK?
 
Matt said:
There is really no reason to think that.
Click to expand...

Why not?

Juan29.zapata said:
Why one and not the other? Why not both? Why any BC at all? (Apart of course of us wanting it)
Click to expand...

I suppose that Orbis could utilize emulation but as we've seen with the 360 that has its limitations.

I think that with the way Durango is designed full backward compatibility is more or less a foregone conclusion and with the Orbis completely abandoning the PS3 architecture BC is just going to be that much more difficult to achieve.

If MS is trying to unify the user experience across multiple devices backward compatibility is a must.
 
Proxy said:
I believe someone said that early dev kits were built by the devs themselves from specifications provided by Microsoft. Whether or not that's true I don't know, but it seems plausible. So potentially, he could of just gotten his hands on Durango documents and built them himself.
Click to expand...

Now that's dedication.
 
ii Stryker said:
Why not?



I suppose that Orbis could utilize emulation but as we've seen with the 360 that has its limitations.

I think that with the way Durango is designed full backward compatibility is more or less a foregone conclusion and with the Orbis completely abandoning the PS3 architecture BC is just going to be that much more difficult to achieve.

If MS is trying to unify the user experience across multiple devices backward compatibility is a must.
Click to expand...

Durango has majorly different GPU's and CPU's and also the ESRAM is tiwce as slow as the EDRAM.
 
KidBeta said:
Durango has majorly different GPU's and CPU's and also the ESRAM is tiwce as slow as the EDRAM.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the fact that the Durango has roughly 10x the main system memory negate this? Same with the ESRAM. although its twice as slow there's 3x more if it then the 10Mb of the 360 EDRAM.

wouldn't the API and tool sets be the same if both are using DX?

Im not an engineer but Durango just appears to be designed so as to scale down to the 360 for backward compatibility.

If that's not the case then of the two which one would be more conducive to backward compatibility?
 
ii Stryker said:
Wouldn't the fact that the Durango has roughly 10x the main system memory negate this? Same with the ESRAM. although its twice as slow there's 3x more if it then the 10Mb of the 360 EDRAM.

wouldn't the API and tool sets be the same if both are using DX?

Im not an engineer but Durango just appears to be designed so as to scale down to the 360 for backward compatibility.

If that's not the case then of the two which one would be more conducive to backward compatibility?
Click to expand...

In certain situations it will probably work but for pure bandwidth related ones it might not, i think both systems are going to have a hard time with backwards compatibility to tbh
 
Reiko said:
Fine. No more speculation.

These are the specs. Whatever we're reading right now is 100% final. Orbis>Durango.
Click to expand...
Speculation based on what has been leaked is very different than speculation of what will some attention whore claims they're leaking.

"This is what's known right now. So what do people think of the leaked specs/documentation of each system."

v.

"What if SuperDAE reveals some magic fairy dust and the 720 has 4 GPUs in the specs he's going to reveal. That would change everything!"
 
KidBeta said:
In certain situations it will probably work but for pure bandwidth related ones it might not, i think both systems are going to have a hard time with backwards compatibility to tbh
Click to expand...

Eh the edram bandwidth in the 360 was huge as the logic could not do compression before or after backbuffer pixel operations at all, the durango can and the esram has lower latency than the edram so that is not an issue at all.
 
shinra-bansho said:
Speculation based on what has been leaked is very different than speculation of what will some attention whore claims they're leaking.

"This is what's known right now. So what do people think of the leaked specs/documentation of each system."

v.

"What if SuperDAE reveals some magic fairy dust and the 720 has 4 GPUs in the specs he's going to reveal. That would change everything!"
Click to expand...

There is no magic sauce, or whatever fairy dust you hope. But what I would want to see is a full spec blowout.
 
scently said:
Eh the edram bandwidth in the 360 was huge as the logic could not do compression before or after backbuffer pixel operations at all, the durango can and the esram has lower latency than the edram so that is not an issue at all.
Click to expand...

link please.
 
I take it the dev kits aren't custom built by devs?

Brad Grenz wrote this on B3D

Originally Posted by Brad Grenz
The current theory is that Alpha kits were built by the devs based on a component list provided by Microsoft. You'd then install custom software and drivers. If he just built an identical machine it would be his to sell. Distribution of the development software is another question.
Click to expand...

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704936&postcount=943

To which bkilian (Former MS employee) replied:

Nope.
Click to expand...

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704945&postcount=945

Interesting.
 
Reiko said:
I take it the dev kits aren't custom built by devs?

Brad Grenz wrote this on B3D



http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704936&postcount=943

To which bkilian (Former MS employee) replied:



http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704945&postcount=945

Interesting.
Click to expand...

Why would they be?. There probably running a whole bunch of custom firmware and operating system stuff just to try and fit the final hardware a bit better, not every dev is going to be up to the task of getting all of this 100% correct, and microsoft is also in a much better position to buy the hardware for the dev kits then any separate dev is on there own.
 
While I don't buy that theory. Someone posed a theory that he i.e. SuperDAE, didn't get an actual devkit but managed to build his own devkit - which considering alpha kits are just custom PCs essentially isn't inconceivable - and managed to get the software to run it.
 
KidBeta said:
Why would they be?. There probably running a whole bunch of custom firmware and operating system stuff just to try and fit the final hardware a bit better, not every dev is going to be up to the task of getting all of this 100% correct, and microsoft is also in a much better position to buy the hardware for the dev kits then any separate dev is on there own.
Click to expand...

What am I reading?
 
KidBeta said:
Why would they be?. There probably running a whole bunch of custom firmware and operating system stuff just to try and fit the final hardware a bit better, not every dev is going to be up to the task of getting all of this 100% correct, and microsoft is also in a much better position to buy the hardware for the dev kits then any separate dev is on there own.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's ridiculous to expect developers to make their own dev kits when Sony/Microsoft will be manufacturing them in bulk.
 
KidBeta said:
Why would they be?. There probably running a whole bunch of custom firmware and operating system stuff just to try and fit the final hardware a bit better, not every dev is going to be up to the task of getting all of this 100% correct, and microsoft is also in a much better position to buy the hardware for the dev kits then any separate dev is on there own.
Click to expand...

I just found it interesting he just shut him down without further explanation. I'll try to ask him for a little more info.
 
So I guess if I go Sony next gen I shouldn't worry too much about Bayonetta level ports.
Well exept maybe from Bethesda. Can't ask the impossible.

Is it just me or does the specs compared to PS3 look like a huge jump, especially RAM and GPU (I know that you can't compare mhz of the processors or anything but I expect the CPU being the least improvement). What is all the talk about dissapointing specs aboot? What kind of monsters were people expecting.

Some jokers are even using the ''Wii U'' route statement for Durango. I mean do you see the same specs as I do?
 
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