Insane Metal
Member
I think thuway is just talking about all the stuff discussed while he was banned =P
DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis
- Thread starter iamshadowlark
- Start date
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
People still don't believe we will see some 4K games from sony? Not AAA but maby small PSN titles.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Would there really be no other benifit to having 32 ROPs?
Rendering simple games at 4k resolution doesn't require powerful hardware.
Also, what's the point of even making games that run at 4k when even 5 years from now only a very small portion of the population (many not even gamers) will even own 4k televisions?
16x AF
5yrs ago i knew very few people with 720p HD TVs. Today it's difficult to find non 1080p sets in stores and houses. And i live in a "third world"/"developing"/"BRICS" country
Can Crusher
Banned
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26392219&postcount=446
The thread itself has some interest too.
I wonder if MS stuck with the design they had for late 2012, and concentrated on making it cheaper to produce.
The thread itself has some interest too.
I wonder if MS stuck with the design they had for late 2012, and concentrated on making it cheaper to produce.
dragonelite
Member
Playing 3d 48fps movies?
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
I was going to ask if that 32 applies to 4K movies. Don't know too much about this stuff.
How does the PS3 decode BD movies?
Tell us about the RAM, TELL US ABOUT THE RAM
I think Sony ninjas have him/his source on short leash.
I don't doubt that for a second. Something like SuperStardust or a PixelJunk title maybe. But they'll be at least a year out from launch.
You are assuming his comment is suggesting that he has new info. It could instead easily be that we've had the few leaks we have had since he was put on gardening leave.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
So ROPs only give you better IQ? 16 ROPs vs 32ROPs isn't really that big of advantage? Why would Sony have it in the silicon budget then? Seems like it could be better put to use on other things?
Horse Armour
Member
Why was Thuway banned?
Meta thread whining.
Horse Armour
Member
Why was Proelite banned?
Trolling while sitting on information.
Having 16 anisotropic filtering compared to none is like night and day. Do you really want the game look blurry and ugly from a few feet from your character?
IIRC he was jerking people around with manipulating information to the point of trolling.
Yea, but are 16 ROPs not enough for just additional AF?
How can you simply add bandwidth from 32 MB of RAM with 8GB from the rest?
Shouldn't it be:
EdramBandwidth*(32/8224)+Ddr3RamBandwidth*(8192/8224)
?
Maybe that formula isn't correct, but still there's only so much 32 MB can do. Otherwise...why would GPU makers use GDDR5 if they could be saving $30 on COGS with DDR3 + EDRAM?
Shouldn't it be:
EdramBandwidth*(32/8224)+Ddr3RamBandwidth*(8192/8224)
?
Maybe that formula isn't correct, but still there's only so much 32 MB can do. Otherwise...why would GPU makers use GDDR5 if they could be saving $30 on COGS with DDR3 + EDRAM?
Horse Armour
Member
Durango and Orbis should not have problems with AF.
No he did but for every post with genuine info he would post a few more containing lies to confuse people about the veracity of the information as we would keep on guessing which is the correct one. This got out of hand. And given his "member" status (and not junior) he was not perm'd.
So why 32 ROPs then? That's the same as a full 7970, just seems overkill. If Sony are only using 18 out of 20 CUs for yield improvement, why not remove half the ROPs and improve even further (or keep more CUs)?
As aforementioned by someone, 1080p3D may something to do with it plus, I would think ROPs would have more use than "just" AF.
Horse Armour
Member
AF has essentially no cost on modern PC GPUs, turning it on on even the most demanding titles has essentially no effect. You can expect 16xAF in nearly all titles next gen with a few possibly dropping down to 4x AF.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
Maybe he lost one of his many ban bets lol
...can't wait for the kotaku article. I think we might get upgradable consoles this time every few years. I don't see these consoles lasting long unless they're doing 3d stacking with 8 gb ram and full HSA. That could last a decade until real time ray tracing is practical
...can't wait for the kotaku article. I think we might get upgradable consoles this time every few years. I don't see these consoles lasting long unless they're doing 3d stacking with 8 gb ram and full HSA. That could last a decade until real time ray tracing is practical
I have no idea for the 32 ROPs. We'll see how they play out come console launch.
Insane Metal
Member
I'd be surprised if they have AF at all... but some games appear to have it, at 4x.
Horse Armour
Member
Reach used 4xAF which was dropped down to something like trilinear for 4. Uncharted uses 4xAF I think. Most games still use trilinear filtering.
metareferential
Member
The sad thing is we are practically begging for 16x AF to happen in 2013.
That shit has been free on pc for a decade.
RadicalVelocity
Member
Unless things have changed more drastically than i thought, ROPs still have nothing to do with AF. Texture filtering is a function of the units responsible for fetching texels, which at least were once called texture mapping units (TMUs), and these should be either in their own cluster or part of the compute units. ROPs are responsible for taking pixel data and reading/writing to the framebuffer. Along with that is classical anti-aliasing.
Reasons for having more would be decreasing bottlenecks in cases where you're reading/writing to the framebuffer perhaps rather quickly. Blending lots of very simple particles or transparent surfaces, writing the depth buffer/ doing depth tests... Of course, the ROPs can themselves be bottlenecked by bandwidth, but I don't know the specifics here.
Reasons for having more would be decreasing bottlenecks in cases where you're reading/writing to the framebuffer perhaps rather quickly. Blending lots of very simple particles or transparent surfaces, writing the depth buffer/ doing depth tests... Of course, the ROPs can themselves be bottlenecked by bandwidth, but I don't know the specifics here.
helvetica bold
Banned
With all this tech talk lets not forget its gonna come down to the games regardless of who is more powerful.
I think Mirocsoft is really counting on Bungie's new game to sell the system. I do have more faith in them than Guerilla (gameplay wise) but we shall see.
I think Mirocsoft is really counting on Bungie's new game to sell the system. I do have more faith in them than Guerilla (gameplay wise) but we shall see.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Is there a song called lowered expectations? I would like to play it every time AF is mentioned as a bullet point.
Should have been standard from day one last gen.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
you should go work for AMD, obviously you know how to get 200% more yield out of a gpu just by adding 4 extra CU's and doubling your ROPs. (even the DF article says it amounts to no more then a 20% yield)
Why do they even bother with new architecture on cards if they can just add a couple more parts and make it twice as good? Seriously this stuff cracks me up.
This is most interesting. Thanks.
If you look at the Durango design docs they were expecting ddr4 to be available but had to settle for ddr3.
Angelus Errare
Banned
metareferential
Member
Really. What's missing on current hardware that presents console games from having good texture filtering?
Or, what's there on pc gpus that let's us have it (without compromising performance, AF is computing-free).
Texture filtering is done by the... Texture Units.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
This is what I'm implying, and wondering if anyone more technical knowledge can say what that would/could be.
So what is the real benifit of having twice as many ROPs? It doesn't seem like a real advantage.
Ok thanks. This is what I was looking for. Seems like it would have more of an effect, than just "better AA/IQ"
That could also be why they ended up going with 8. Once they realized they couldn't get DDR4, they probably upped the ram amount a bit.
The entire 7800 line has the same, only the 7700 cards are cut down to 16. It might make more sense to ask 'why remove it?' instead.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
to add more CU's(im sure there's more possibilities)? Generally these gpu's in consoles are highly customized. Look at the Wii U GPU for example. 32 ROPs must take away from the silicon budget, and if 32 ROPs pose no real advantage, it seems like it could be used elsewhere.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Ah my mistake.
What the buck.