DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis

you should go work for AMD, obviously you know how to get 200% more yield out of a gpu just by adding 4 extra CU's and doubling your ROPs. (even the DF article says it amounts to no more then a 20% yield)

Why do they even bother with new architecture on cards if they can just add a couple more parts and make it twice as good? Seriously this stuff cracks me up.

Pro-tip: if you're trying to mock another poster for their lack of technical knowledge, make sure you get your own facts straight. You know the differences between low, mid and high end cards from AMD are just increases in the various components (CUs etc). The underlying architecture is the same. So yeah, a 50% increase in something can give a significant increase in rendering power.

Yield has nothing to do with the basic mathematical advantage Orbis is rumoured to have over Durango. Yield refers to the number of working chips that come off the production line. With both Sony & MS going for highly custom SoCs, yield will be an issue for both parties.
 
to add more CU's(im sure there's more possibilities)? Generally these gpu's in consoles are highly customized. Look at the for Wii U GPU for example. 32 ROPs must take away from the silicon budget, and if 32 ROPs pose no real advantage, it seems like it could be used elsewhere.

AMD faced the same decision with Pitcairn and kept them. So it should be less of a mystery that Sony did the same.
 
What's the catch of 8X / 16X or even 4X AA if the native resolution would be 1080p ?

i mean, with 720p games ( and there will be many of them, even on next gen) 4x AA would be very useful, but checking 1080p + 2x AA on a 55" Tv with a pc connected of course, i really don't have any need of higher AA filter ..

i think power resource should be used for other things than extreme AA filter with a 1080p native resolution
 
32 ROPs makes sense with Orbis' bandwidth and 16 ROPs with Durango's, see here;

Looking beyond the frontend and shader cores, we’ve seen a very interesting reorganization of the rest of the GPU as opposed to Cayman. Keeping in mind that AMD’s diagrams are logical diagrams rather than physical diagrams, the fact that the ROPs on Tahiti are not located near the L2 cache and memory controllers in the diagram is not an error. The ROPs have in fact been partially decoupled from the L2 cache and memory controllers, which is also why there are 8 ROP partitions but only 6 memory controllers. Traditionally the ROPs, L2 cache, and memory controllers have all been tightly integrated as ROP operations are extremely bandwidth intensive, making this a very unusual design for AMD to use.

As it turns out, there’s a very good reason that AMD went this route. ROP operations are extremely bandwidth intensive, so much so that even when pairing up ROPs with memory controllers, the ROPs are often still starved of memory bandwidth. With Cayman AMD was not able to reach their peak theoretical ROP throughput even in synthetic tests, never mind in real-world usage. With Tahiti AMD would need to improve their ROP throughput one way or another to keep pace with future games, but because of the low efficiency of their existing ROPs they didn’t need to add any more ROP hardware, they merely needed to improve the efficiency of what they already had.

The solution to that was rather counter-intuitive: decouple the ROPs from the memory controllers. By servicing the ROPs through a crossbar AMD can hold the number of ROPs constant at 32 while increasing the width of the memory bus by 50%. The end result is that the same number of ROPs perform better by having access to the additional bandwidth they need.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/4

And here's a chart you can use for comparing the Pixel Fillrates between Durango/Orbis;

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5625/...-7850-review-rounding-out-southern-islands/16
 
AMD faced the same decision with Pitcairn and kept them. So it should be less of a mystery that Sony did the same.

Yea but my point is Sony isn't AMD, and console GPU's are generally highly customized. I wouldn't be surprised if Orbis doesn't end having 32 ROPs in the end and the GPU has some "secret sauce" elsewhere. Pure speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me.

32 ROPs makes sense with Orbis' bandwidth and 16 ROPs with Durango's, see here;


http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/4

And here's a chart you can use for comparing the Pixel Fillrates between Durango/Orbis;

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5625/...-7850-review-rounding-out-southern-islands/16

So if Orbis has enough bandwidth to take advantage of 32 ROPs, what real world advantage does does that give Orbis at 1080p non 3d? I mean the answer cant just be better AA while in 3D mode(something probably only 5% of users use)? That would be a huge waste.

Much has happened :-O.

Arnt posts like these "trolling while sitting on information"? Seriously what a tease.
 
Yea but my point is Sony isn't AMD, and console GPU's are generally highly customized. I wouldn't be surprised if Orbis doesn't end having 32 ROPs in the end and the GPU has some "secret sauce" elsewhere. Pure speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It wouldn't surprise me if any of the leaked specs were changed, but not because 32 ROPs seems like too much or anything. My point is Sony is using an AMD GPU, with a similar design to a certain other AMD GPU, it shouldn't be any more surprising that this one part of the design stayed the same than any other part.
 
Dudes, thuway is saying much has been discussed at Gaf since he's been gone. Nothing more. I guess being hungry for info changes your perception
 
I doubt we will see anything new from now. The specs seem to be pretty much set in stone, at least according to the latest Digital Foundary article which compares Orbis and Durango. DF claims to have 'double checked' their sources.
 
Dudes, thuway is saying much has been discussed at Gaf since he's been gone. Nothing more. I guess being hungry for info changes your perception
Isn't it possible to read the forum even while banned? It's not required to be logged in.
I'm not sure why he should act surprised now because of the added posts in the last days.
 
So if Orbis has enough bandwidth to take advantage of 32 ROPs, what real world advantage does does that give Orbis at 1080p non 3d? I mean the answer cant just be better AA while in 3D mode(something probably only 5% of users use)? That would be a huge waste.
Better AA in 1080p non-3D mode? Something like 4xMSAA+SSMA or 16xCSAA would be a great thing to have, would yield practically perfect looking image in 1080p considering the distance people sit away from their TVs.
 
I find it odd that this analysis takes into consideration the possibility that Microsoft will reserve a certain percentage of the 8GB of RAM for functions other than gaming while apparently assuming that Sony won't need to reserve a significant portion of its 4GB of RAM for certain functions. It sounds as though Microsoft will be aiming to allow for more multi-tasking while playing, while Sony will probably still allow for limited interaction with the OS without making other tasks much of a priority while playing.

Of the two experiences, I'd take Microsoft's approach, even if it's at the expense of graphical fidelity. Then again, I've always preferred the Steam experience to the PlayStation and Xbox experiences, so I'm really used to being able to multi-task without having to completely quit out of my game.
 
It's been said so many times, but.. WHO CARES about theoretical power unless they take advantage of it?


PS3 vs 360 showed just that. PS3 significantly stronger, but so much more annoying to work with. Realistically these new consoles are going to be close. multiplatform will be even bigger this generation I think!
 
I'd appreciate some clarifications on this matter. I'm not too sure how Durango would get more benefits from this rendering approach than Orbis. Is it because ESRAM has less latency than GDDR5?

Comments on B3D focus on how quick data transfer would enable tiles to feed the ESRAM. I can understand that but with Orbis, such transfer wouldn't be needed in the first place. The tiles would be already available in an address space the GPU would be able to operate on so I don't think DMEs would be a great benefit over Orbis here. I guess the main structural advantage that remains for Durango in that regard would be the ESRAM's low latency. Low latency would allow Durango's GPU to perform super quick access to tile data e.g. more processing operations. Right? Wrong?

Essentially that's correct. Although this is only really interesting performance-wise if the esram has the same latency as cache, which is definitely not a given. We'll have to wait for additional details to leak before we can say anything.
 
It's been said so many times, but.. WHO CARES about theoretical power unless they take advantage of it?


PS3 vs 360 showed just that. PS3 significantly stronger, but so much more annoying to work with. Realistically these new consoles are going to be close. multiplatform will be even bigger this generation I think!
The PS3 wasn't significantly stronger. It had a significantly better cpu but a weaker gpu and less usable ram.
 
Much has happened because I was gone for a little while :). Nothing more, btw hope everyone likes my new avatar. I talked to Leadbetter last week about this very article, and we shared a little bit of a nice talk.

Thank you BruceLEEROY!

The event on the 20th we will see some fun things.
 
Much has happened because I was gone for a little while :). Nothing more, btw hope everyone likes my new avatar. I talked to Leadbetter last week about this very article, and we shared a little bit of a nice talk.

The event on the 20th we will see some fun things.

Well nice to have you back Thuway.
 
But seriously : how can you have seen the machine already? I would suspect it to be the largest kept secret at Sony. :o
 
I plead the fifth. If my source is right, Japan should be happy. I really can't talk about it at all.

If Japan is happy, it would probably be pretty small and sleek. Looking forward to seeing it.

Also glad to having someone who knows a few things and is willing to talk back on GAF.
 
Much has happened because I was gone for a little while :). Nothing more, btw hope everyone likes my new avatar. I talked to Leadbetter last week about this very article, and we shared a little bit of a nice talk.

The event on the 20th we will see some fun things.

Can you comment at all on storage further then we already know (BD50 and HDD)
 
Much has happened because I was gone for a little while :). Nothing more, btw hope everyone likes my new avatar. I talked to Leadbetter last week about this very article, and we shared a little bit of a nice talk.

The event on the 20th we will see some fun things.

Just a yes or no to this, no specifics, if you don't mind of course. Will we see a bunch of new games?
 
But seriously : how can you have seen the machine already? I would suspect it to be the largest kept secret at Sony. :o

External power brick :). This is all heresay, and this time I am not putting 100% confidence behind it because sources have changed.
 
Small looking console huh? Rad.

If everything is now accurate, I'm so pissed at MS for going with such a weaker machine. It just doesn't make sense, man. They are KNOWN for beastly systems, so wtf is this? Please don't disappoint everyone next-gen Microsoft.
 
The PS3 wasn't significantly stronger. It had a significantly better cpu but a weaker gpu and less usable ram.

PS3 first party titles are noticeably better than 360 first or third party efforts. you might be able to debate the definition of "significantly", but the difference is a real thing.

I plead the fifth. If my source is right, Japan should be happy. I really can't talk about it at all.

PS4 is a realdoll dressed like a japanese schoolgirl with a blu ray slot confirmed.
 
I'm expecting something like this:

311554orjf7.jpeg


- Increased RAM to 16 GB GDDR5

- Increased clock frequencies to 3.2GHz for CPU and 1.2GHz for GPU

- water cooling system

- hardware BC for PS1, PS2 and PS3 titles

- built-in cable box and 9.1 surround receiver

- integrated AI, will be watching you while you are asleep

- can be used as radiator when it's cold

...
 
I haven't seen PS4 people. -_-

This is the last major leak from me, and honestly, it's all I know:


EDIT: TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE

Figure the dimensions out yourself and get to drawing :).
 
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