DF Retro: Daytona USA 2 Comes To Consoles - Sega Model 3 Finally Emulated + Fighting Vipers 2!

Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Kind of a shallow & disjointed video but oh well. Whatever brings arcade classics hype in this era.

Also is it me or in all comparisons with the real arcade/supermodel you can see draw in/pop in of primarily the fencing around the beginner track which is otherwise seemingly perfectly smooth and/or visible further away and either way not so obviously popping in Gaiden? He doesn't mention that.​
 
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Alexios said:


Kind of a shallow video but oh well. Whatever gives arcade hype. Even if he's hating on the DC a bit here, attributing certain flaws to Daytona USA (2001) compared to Daytona USA 2 that he doesn't attribute to Daytona USA 3 later because it harpens back to the original. Just like 2001 did.
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I was looking to see if anyone posted this video, because what I was surprised about was that even now more than 20 years later, with tech more powerful than Model 3, we can't get an arcade perfect port of Daytona 2, after waiting more than a decade or so for a port....(though the missing details aren't noticeable thankfully in the heat of the action, but still...) and I don't understand why Sega feels the need to release these games in a hub located in another game, instead of bringing them out as stand-alone releases like they did with the original Daytona and Virtua Fighter 1/2.....If you want to play these Model 3 games, you are forced to buy like a Dragon, .......just why? What is the point?
 
Easy solution: buy Like a Dragon! Sega don't care but Like a Dragon Studio do. Embrace the Dragon! The last bastion of old school Sega. And quality titles to boot! Gaiden is a mere spin off and still better than most crap that released this year (ok it's not GOTY with TOTK and a few others but yeah).
 
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I guess its better than no port at all, MAME still cannot boot Model 3 games and Supermodel has a few graphics glitches. I still don't understand why Sega didn't release this on the Dreamcast, some speculate their arcade ports didn't provide enough content for a home release.
 
Drew1440 said:
some speculate their arcade ports didn't provide enough content for a home release.
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They didn't seem to care about that, they put plenty barebones stuff on their consoles (sadly, how much effort could it possibly be to add some more modes of play to their fighting games for example, if not some character endings with just pictures a la Capcom to give them some substance). They probably just didn't have enough dev power to allocate to real good ports before Dreamcast died prematurely and couldn't risk otherwise after botching Sega Rally 2 (funnily enough one of the few arcade ports they did add substantial content to, drats) so passing on a side game homage, remake or whatever project to an external studio like Genki was more doable than converting something from Model 3 with its wholy different architecture Genki was unfamiliar with. Still, I think Daytona USA 2001 looks about as good, just with a more cartoony, less gritty look yet also less fantasy course style closer to the original instead of the candy land movie and theme park settings of Daytona USA 2. Controls took some getting used to but work (better with a wheel but workable with a gamepad). Virtual On 2 and Virtua Striker 2 were also ported to Naomi to replace the expensive model 3 versions in the arcades so were done with proper care and effort and the Dreamcast ports benefit from that effort too being near perfect. Perhaps they didn't do that for Daytona USA 2 because it never reached the popularity of the original, as good as it is (cost probably was a factor though).
 
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Alexios said:
They didn't seem to care about that, they put plenty barebones stuff on their consoles (sadly, how much effort could it possibly be to add some more modes of play to their fighting games for example, if not some character endings with just pictures a la Capcom to give them some substance). They probably just didn't have enough dev power to allocate to real good ports before Dreamcast died prematurely and couldn't risk otherwise after botching Sega Rally 2 (funnily enough one of the few arcade ports they did add substantial content to, drats) so passing on a side game homage, remake or whatever project to an external studio like Genki was more doable than converting something from Model 3 with its wholy different architecture Genki was unfamiliar with. Still, I think Daytona USA 2001 looks about as good, just with a more cartoony, less gritty look yet also less fantasy course style closer to the original instead of the candy land movie and theme park settings of Daytona USA 2. Controls took some getting used to but work (better with a wheel but workable with a gamepad). Virtual On 2 and Virtua Striker 2 were also ported to Naomi to replace the expensive model 3 versions in the arcades so were done with proper care and effort and the Dreamcast ports benefit from that effort too being near perfect. Perhaps they didn't do that for Daytona USA 2 because it never reached the popularity of the original, as good as it is (cost probably was a factor though).
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There was no excuse in porting over a botched job like VF3 Team battle to the Dreamcast, and clearly Sega doesn't seem to care to this day, otherwise if they wanted to they could bring out a definitive Model 3 collection, which has an assortment of games from that era, out of the trilogy released, part 2 is the peak of Daytona Racing, nobody talks about part 3, but maybe because the team behind the most recent release isn't the same that was there in the 90s? (Just a guess...)
 
RAIDEN1 said:
There was no excuse in porting over a botched job like VF3 Team battle to the Dreamcast
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It's a fine yet barebones port. Most people, similar to Virtua Fighter on Saturn making this kind of a curse for Sega console launches, couldn't distinguish between a bad port and the game itself being a 1996 pioneering title which by 1998, with the speed gaming moved (or rather Sega alone moved it) looked quite crude. There are downgrades owing to the completely different architecture and development environment (hence Dreamcast titles - Naomi too but same difference - like Dead or Alive 2 doing way better) but nothing warranting this kind of hate talk against it, especially for 1998 (same year as Tekken 3's downgraded home port) when most people likely wouldn't see the difference without a side by side. Soulcalibur is praised for good reason but is technically inferior, way lower polygons than either version but artistically superior (plus superior to the ancient tech arcade game and packed with content). What was it so bad against? Hype, hopes and dreams for the PS2? It was way ahead of anything in the genre despite being a less than perfect port. I get lack of modes, which doesn't affect core playability of a fighter, but technically it was fine. Still, these pioneers had a certain symbolism within the games industry and its progression and having ports on Saturn and Dreamcast was great, some folks just completely missed the point I guess. The series wasn't hip in those circles anyway, they just feigned lofty arcade perfect standards to hate Sega consoles.

Sega Rally 2 is the one port one can call botched out of all 5 games originating on Model 3 the Dreamcast got, I guess that could be considered Dreamcast's "Saturn Daytona USA" with having more pop in and a way lower framerate but even that is decent considering the additional content and folks discovering the 30 fps cap code bringing stability to it. On the title screen with the Press Start Button text press Up - A - Down - Down - Left - Right - B - B - Up and you'll hear a confirmation sound after doing that correctly (if not you can try again). That way you'll be playing the game with a solid 30 fps rather than a randomly varying 30 to 60 fps mess. It actually works, it's not like the 60 fps code which reduces graphics further and still can't maintain 60 fps at all times or anywhere close to that making it essentially useless. Stable gameplay at 30 fps is much better than the default.​
 
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Daytona on Dreamcast was fucking awful.

VF3TB was a totally acceptable port, it just suffered in comparison to Soul Calibur.
 
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I will buy this game when it's $30 or less. I agree that having to buy a game to get Sega's treasure trove of forgotten arcade classics is ridiculous. I mean how far do you have to go in the game to get to these arcade games? Once you arrive at this arcade area in game is there a fast travel option to go there quickly the next time to bypass the main game? Do you have to spend in game currency to play these games every time, or it's there a freeplay option? To go through these kind of hoops to play an arcade classic in 2023 doesn't make sense. We shouldn't celebrate that this is the only legitimate option to play Daytona 2. Classic games like this should not be locked behind other games. Sega should be selling all of their forgotten arcade classics individually, or in collections on every game platform. Why do companies like Sega hoard these dead classics and let them stay dormant for no one to ever play? Sure, they might not make much money by releasing some of those games, but what's the alternative? Not making money at all? It's no wonder why some people choose to pirate these games. Not an endorsement, just a fact!
 
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I have absolutely zero interest in the yakuza game (though I'm willing to try it), but I really want to finally play Daytona 2. It looks so damn good.
 
diffusionx said:
Daytona on Dreamcast was fucking awful.
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You just need to git gud, it was an excellent version and with quite a bit of content too, for an arcade racer of its ilk (of course the original here is an enhanced remaster on PS3 with widescreen, high resolution, minimized pop in and so on, but the DC game is still clearly a generation ahead anyway).

In the DF video he's hating on it attributing flaws (read: differences as in one camera angle, as if there aren't others) to Daytona USA (2001) compared to Daytona USA 2 that he doesn't attribute to Daytona USA 3 in the same video because it harkens back to the original. Just like the DC game did!​
 
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I love the Xbox 360 version of Daytona. It's so good. In fact it might be the best racing game ever. I want to play this as well.
 
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Alexios said:
More wrongposting, git gud.
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I don't know what that is running on, but I had the game day one, it controlled like ass, looked nice but played bad, I logged online on my Dreamcast with the modem and it just didn't work right. It's just a bad port, everyone knew it at the time, I know apologists are gonna do what they do but it was unacceptable. We deserved a better Daytona than that on Dreamcast, and it was especially annoying because there were so many great racers.

"muh git gud"
 
This game looked so damn good at the arcade when it came out. I couldn't understand how it looked so smooth since i didn't know about 60 fps as a wee lad.
 
diffusionx said:
I don't know what that is running on, but I had the game day one, it controlled like ass, looked nice but played bad, I logged online on my Dreamcast with the modem and it just didn't work right. It's just a bad port, everyone knew it at the time, I know apologists are gonna do what they do but it was unacceptable. We deserved a better Daytona than that on Dreamcast, and it was especially annoying because there were so many great racers.

"muh git gud"
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Running on Dreamcast, duh.

That was the usual Sega hating from nooblets, bots and casual non gamers who didn't wanna git gud, it still has a decent metascore of 86 so I guess not "everyone knew" your wrong opinion as the truth. If it's so unplayable how do you explain that vcdecide video which is just a random comparison video and not some genius gamer mastering the games for hours showing how it's done or anything like that playing both versions similarly well? Git gud, tweak the controls/car a bit and/or get a wheel, but generally, ya know, just learn how to play this rad new game that's not an 100% clone of another meaning that if you try to make 100% the motions you do in another game in this one you might crash instead but if you learn how to play you won't crash any more and learn how to drift corners without losing your speed and, ya know, learn how to race well, have fun and even win.

Genki was an awesome dev after a few early tries/lower budget/effort duds on both Saturn (Drift King '97) and Dreamcast (Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2 and this) and other systems too of course.​
 
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