E-Cat
Member
I believe UE4's SVOGI was one such technique, but unfortunately it appears to have required closer to 5 TFLOPS to be feasible.
DF: Xbone Specs/Tech Analysis: GPU 33% less powerful than PS4
- Thread starter pelican
- Start date
The reason people compared 3rd party efforts this generation was due to the close nature of the hardware and the efforts from 1st party.
In the coming generation Sony first party/exclusives will be incomparable to anything else on either system. The power divide will be much more obvious.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
"360 difference over PS3"? The 360 has no raw power advantage over the PS3, the reason most multiplatform games look better on the 360 is because of the PS3's more complicated architecture which makes it harder to work with. Some devs (mostly Sony's own studios, but also some third parties) learned how to really take advantage of the Cell and made games that look better on the PS3.
This time we have two extremely similar architectures, with one simply being more powerful and less complex (memory setup) than the other. The situation above, where some games look better one 360 and some look better on PS3, won't be repeated. This time the PS4 will have the edge in every single case, there's simply no reason for it not to. Given what we know, it should basically be impossible to make a game run worse on the PS4 than on the XBO (unless you instead make it look significantly better).
Gemüsepizza
Member
It was explained plenty of times how much more powerful the PS4 is, and why we won't see a repeat of the current gen, and still there are people claiming there won't be a noticable difference. You are the one who will be disappointed.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
What is 'floored ceiling'?
30fps vs 60fps
Sony's new Eye camera actually has two cameras and each of their maximum resolutions is 1280x800, and you're correct that it's at 60 fps at that resolution. 640x400 resolution at 120 fps. I assume they're doing two cameras because of being better able to sense 3D objects in a space?
BruiserBear
Banned
It's embarrassing hearing these gaming media folks touting these new consoles as being technological equals. Ryan McCaffrey on IGN just said that on the Beyond Podcast.
For the hardcore that will be reason enough for us to buy them on the PS4 instead. I bought most of my multiplatform games this gen on the 360 for the same reasons.
It should be a complete reversal this time, at minimum. Could end up being more.
For the hardcore that will be reason enough for us to buy them on the PS4 instead. I bought most of my multiplatform games this gen on the 360 for the same reasons.
It should be a complete reversal this time, at minimum. Could end up being more.
Chuck Norris
Banned
That is not what the specs indicate at all
velociraptor
Junior Member
If the PS4 is indeed 50% more powerful than the XBO then I think this could potentially be a 60fps vs 30fps difference. Why can they not use all the extra juice for higher framerates?
yes. Depending on how transparant the move engines/esram etc are on XBox One, the Xbox will be the more complex to program *and* be technically weaker.
Like you said, there is almost no scenario where a PS4 game should ever look worse, and any competent dev should be able to make it look better fairly trivially.
E-Cat
Member
A quick-and-dirty comparison that doesn't take every subtlety into account, but demonstrates how close the PS3 and 360 were this generation:
PS3 CPU, 'Cell': 230 GFLOPS
360 CPU, Xenon': 115 GFLOPS
PS3 GPU, 'Reality Synthesizer': 176 GFLOPS
360 GPU, 'Xenos': 240 GFLOPS
PS3 has a weaker GPU, but a stronger CPU that can also take some of the load off of the GPU in graphics-heavy tasks. So it's a wash, with a slight advantage to PS3 when you really know every nook and cranny (i.e. Naughty Dog). On the other hand, the complicated multi-threaded nature of the Cell made it easier to lead multi-platform games on the 360 and achieve better results faster on there.
PS3 RAM: 512MB (256MB XDR, 256MB GDDR3)
360 RAM: 512MB (GDDR3)
PS3 Memory Bandwidth: 25 GB/s Cell, 20 GB/s RSX
360 Memory Bandwidth: Xenos 32 GB/s
Obviously the 360 has its 10MB EDRAM pool, but again, no major differences between memory size and speed when compared to PS4 vs. XO.
PS3 CPU, 'Cell': 230 GFLOPS
360 CPU, Xenon': 115 GFLOPS
PS3 GPU, 'Reality Synthesizer': 176 GFLOPS
360 GPU, 'Xenos': 240 GFLOPS
PS3 has a weaker GPU, but a stronger CPU that can also take some of the load off of the GPU in graphics-heavy tasks. So it's a wash, with a slight advantage to PS3 when you really know every nook and cranny (i.e. Naughty Dog). On the other hand, the complicated multi-threaded nature of the Cell made it easier to lead multi-platform games on the 360 and achieve better results faster on there.
PS3 RAM: 512MB (256MB XDR, 256MB GDDR3)
360 RAM: 512MB (GDDR3)
PS3 Memory Bandwidth: 25 GB/s Cell, 20 GB/s RSX
360 Memory Bandwidth: Xenos 32 GB/s
Obviously the 360 has its 10MB EDRAM pool, but again, no major differences between memory size and speed when compared to PS4 vs. XO.
Both systems are disappointing IMO, just the Xbone is more disappointing.
Not sure why some here are making such a big deal about the GPU gap when it's smaller than what we saw between the GC and xbox while many thought those two were even in performance.
The hypocrites on these boards are a funny bunch. I guess no one on GAF liked the PS2, right?
Not sure why some here are making such a big deal about the GPU gap when it's smaller than what we saw between the GC and xbox while many thought those two were even in performance.
The hypocrites on these boards are a funny bunch. I guess no one on GAF liked the PS2, right?
Red Blaster
Member
ps2 came out 18 months before the xbox
I imagine many of the people trumpeting the PS4's advantage were trumpeting the Cell's advantage in 2005/6 and were big fans of the PS2.
and the gap between them was closer to 150% than it was to 50%.
nelsonroyale
Member
I am not entirely convinced you would have said the same thing if the Xbone had possessed the more powerful specs, considering your previous comments on the subject. Personally, I think you may be quite guilty of the "crime" that you fling at others.
Also we can't really scale up relationships from previous generations, because we are dealing with different graphical techniques and much more powerful specs.
3/5 = 6/10.
:/
and 12/20 and so on!
So 1.2*(3/2)=1.8
and 1.8*(2/3)=1.2
Then 3/2=1.5 and 2/3=0.66 (approx.)
So 1.5 is 50% more than 1, and 0.66 (approx.) is 33% less than 1.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Some devs will definitely aim for parity, but even the best examples of parity this gen had differences
I actually can imagine situations where Sony have devs put more effort in the PS4 version to get "best" status visually. I remember MS did this on the original Xbox, games like Madden had that bit of extra graphical polish on Xbox
I actually can imagine situations where Sony have devs put more effort in the PS4 version to get "best" status visually. I remember MS did this on the original Xbox, games like Madden had that bit of extra graphical polish on Xbox
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Uhm, 3/5 (three fifths) can be expressed as 6/10 (six tenths), more math fail?
This thread keeps on giving
'sigh' so is this what we are going to get for the next 10 years off some of you?, if the Xbox One happens to have a beter looking/running version of a game then its purely down to corruption by developers or its down to aliens or something?.
50% is actually the most charitable gap attributable to Xbox One and PS4's GPUs. Computational/shader power is 50% more on PS4 - and that is the headline metric - but other parts of the pipe the gap is bigger 
You're framerate depends on more than one component.
You're framerate depends on more than one component.
Meccanical
Member
Uhm, 3/5 (three fifths) can be expressed as 6/10 (six tenths), more math fail?
This thread keeps on giving
Uhm, 3/5 (three fifths) can be expressed as 6/10 (six tenths), more math fail?
This thread keeps on giving
It's more like rocket science than mathematics.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Is this real life?
60fps is 100% more than 30fps, not 50%.
In a word, yes. Not corruption but you'd have to try very hard to make the PS4 version worse. They both use the exact same shit, PS4 has more/better quality. It'd be like asking if a game on a 580GTX would run better than on a Titan.
Doesn't change the fact that people enjoyed playing games on the PS2 despite the performance gap.
Agreed, meaning any power advantage only matters when it's for the company you're rooting for, which is what I find amusing.
Not that I'm referring to you specifically, just commenting on the reactions in this and other forums because I find it puzzling and funny at the same time.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. If the Xbone had more powerful specs, I'd still get the PS4 and I certainly wouldn't troll the PS4.
I couldn't care less which has more powerful specs, and have said this before. I always originally planned to own both since I've always been a multi-console owner. I'm merely pointing out how it's likely the same people trolling the weaker specs of the Xbone are the same who enjoy the PS2 regardless of it's weaker hardware.
Meccanical
Member
velociraptor
Junior Member
But do you really need that much power to increase the framerate from 30 to 60? I would have assumed 50% extra juice would be sufficient.
It requires twice as much rendering power. It doesn't require more RAM or other shared resources, but it does require twice the rendering power, and twice the bandwidth to get data to that rendering power.
Edit - if internal bandwidth is the bottleneck on the X1, then you might see a PS4 game doubling its framerate, but not if the GPU is the limiting factor.
Interfectum
Member
Keep telling yourself that.
The thing is, one of these is not like the other. The advantages the PS3 had in 2005/6 were complicated by the complexity of the Cell and the separate memory pools of RAM. This time around, Sony is using the same x86 architecture of the Xbone and has a better GPU, faster RAM, and less bottlenecks in the system architecture.
lol we will see.
Depends what part of the GPU and what unlocked performance is like on Xbox.
For example, if you're purely pixel fillrate limited, you may well get a simple doubling on PS4 (with twice the ROPs and bandwidth to feed them).
Or if you are running unlocked at 40fps on Xbox and are purely GPU limited, shader limited, you may get 60fps on PS4 (with the Xbox version locked down to 30fps).
However I've a feeling in many games, CPU processing won't allow for 60fps, so the extra GPU power is probably more often going to go into other picture quality enhancements.
Meccanical
Member
Go outside Alej.
I understand that, but a lot of the GAF trumpeting is just fanboy drivel from people who don't understand what any of it really means, just like it was in 2005/6. In fact, people who were saying exactly what you're saying here about PS3/360 was shouted down by these morons and their cult of Cell back then until the results proved them wrong.
People who know how this stuff actually works can see the clear and obvious advantages of the PS4's design and components over the X1's and what it really means. There are, however, a lot of misinformed people out there who are just in the cult of GDDR5.
I am on the way!
Red Blaster
Member
because the ps2 came out 1.5 years before the xbox and had firmly established itself as the top platform for that generation which most developers were using as a baseline, ie a completely different scenario than what's happening now
xbone is coming out at the same time as the ps4 and is an overdesigned/undercooked mess in comparison
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Pretty much.
This is a no-brainer, there's not really any discussion to be had aside from how much significantly more powerful the PS4 is.
The PS4 has general-purpose RAM that is faster than the specialized eDRAM of Xbone. It has the same CPU, but the Xbox will presumably gate away more of the CPU processing power for the three Operating Systems needed for their multi-tasking thing. GPU of the PS4 is straight-up 50% faster, and it has 50% more CUs.
PS4 spanks the Xbone back and forth, forever.
I doubt we will see many games on Consoles that will use a lot of power on logic, games like total war, X3, civilization. Frankly we also do not know how this CPU will perform without usual bloated system like Windows.
crazygambit
Member
I think we need a sticky by this point. And hopefully a basic reading comprehension and math test for junior members about to be promoted to members...
Yeah, but the CPUs on these systems aren't exactly beefy, and require good parallelism. If the quad core 3.2Ghz CPUs had made it I might be more optimistic about 60fps, at least in the short term.
Longer term as devs get used to the CPUs - and also perhaps leverage GPGPU more - cpu and general processing may become less of a hold back on framerate.
I am making an assumption about the CPU being the one holding things back but just a hunch.
plagiarize
Banned
and because the architecture is the same for processors and gpus, and because the PS4 has the simpler (and faster) memory setup, the worst case scenario a multiplatform game has on PS4, if the developers are the laziest developers in the world, is that it looks identical.
the worst case scenario.
I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to make. Did people enjoy DMC any less because it didn't look as good as Ninja Gaiden? I don't believe so, at least I didn't and I'm sure the same can be said for many here at GAF.
However, now all of a sudden a smaller gap is suddenly a big deal to many here and I'm sure it'll effect their opinion on Xbone games even though they could still be quality games.
You're telling me this should be considered normal?
Edit:
Even in this worst case scenario, the games will likely run smoother on the PS4, thankfully. So there should be good news even in this scenario.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Pretty much.
And this is before we take into account the development pipelines for the two consoles. Xbox are still sticking to the same old pipeline by the sounds of it (they haven't said otherwise), whereas Sony has gone to great lengths to explain how they've created a new development pipeline that will make it so much easier for devs to develop games for the PS4 - including the ability to code to metal even.
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