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[cormack12]

Source: https://www.videogamer.com/features/diablo-creator-david-brevik-doesnt-vibe-with-todays-rapid-arpgs/

Looking across the whole genre, Brevik believes the pace of Diablo 2 is still “great”. While the developer didn’t claim the game was perfect, the slower pace of progression makes the journey more rewarding than games—such as Diablo 3—that have you reach level 70 in just a few hours.

“I think that a RPGs in general have started to lean into this: kill swaths of enemies all over the place extremely quickly,” Brevik explained in an upcoming episode of the VideoGamer Podcast. “Your build is killing all sorts of stuff so you could get more drops, you can level up, so you can like, and the screen is littered with stuff you don’t care about.”

“I don’t find that as kind of personal and realistic as like Diablo 2. The pacing on Diablo 2, I think is great,” he explained. “That’s one of the reasons it’s endured. I just don’t find killing screen-fulls of things instantly and mowing stuff down and walking around the level and killing everything, very enticing. I just don’t feel like that is a cool experience. I find it kind of silly.”

Looking across the whole genre, Brevik believes the pace of Diablo 2 is still “great”. While the developer didn’t claim the game was perfect, the slower pace of progression makes the journey more rewarding than games—such as Diablo 3—that have you reach level 70 in just a few hours.

“I think that a RPGs in general have started to lean into this: kill swaths of enemies all over the place extremely quickly,” Brevik explained in an upcoming episode of the VideoGamer Podcast. “Your build is killing all sorts of stuff so you could get more drops, you can level up, so you can like, and the screen is littered with stuff you don’t care about.”

With any RPG, especially MMOs and ARPGs, Brevik explains that the fun “actually isn’t getting to the end, it’s the journey”. While titles like Diablo 3 force players to play through 70 levels worth of experience in a few hours, that progression rips away player growth, and it tears apart the journey. In comparison, Diablo 2’s slower pace, longer grind and sparser enemy crowds make the game feel like an actual adventure.

“When you’re shortening that journey and making it kind of ridiculous,” Brevik told us. “You’ve cheapened the entire experience, in my opinion.”

 

[Rentahamster]

True.

Zoom zoom can be fun, but at some point it trivializes the game, and invalidates most of the game design.

 

[omegasc]

Yeah, I don't get how people use Diablo 2 as a reference for ARPGs and are totally fine with just running while mobs after mobs are killed. Diablo 4 and PoE2 initial pace were promising, but then they come to a point where everything melts and the difficulty is either a run against the clock or big spongy bosses (and maybe both).

 

[Saber]

Diablo 2 pacing is perfect. Not too long and not quick.
I quit Diablo 3 pretty damn quick. The game was straight out fucking boring and terrible. Never to touch or follow Diablo franchise ever again after that.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Diablo 2 remake is seriously incredible and I agree with him entirely. PoE2 is slower paced too but still not as good as good as d2.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I just don’t find killing screen-fulls of things instantly and mowing stuff down and walking around the level and killing everything, very enticing. I just don’t feel like that is a cool experience. I find it kind of silly.

Dynasty warriors took that personally

 

[Rentahamster]

Yeah, I don't get how people use Diablo 2 as a reference for ARPGs and are totally fine with just running while mobs after mobs are killed.

To be fair, there's a lot of aspects about D2 that these people could be referencing besides that thing. And D2 also has some builds that can screen clear like modern ARPGs, like Javazon or Hammerdin, but yeah it's not quite the same and not quite as easy as it is to build in modern ARPGs.

 

[Kacho]

I enjoyed Diablo 3 facerolling in short bursts. A new season would drop, I'd play for a week or two and then move on. It's not a comfy, immersive experience like Diablo 2 was. Nothing has come close to matching that. Not even Grim Dawn.

 

[Rentahamster]

Dynasty warriors took that personally

I actually played the shit out of both D2 and Dynasty Warriors when I was a kid

 

[Nydius]

With any RPG, especially MMOs and ARPGs, Brevik explains that the fun “actually isn’t getting to the end, it’s the journey”.

I have to say I agree with him and I can point out exactly when my interest in World of Warcraft began shifting: When it became designed around blitzing to the max level so everyone could get to “end game”.

For the original game and The Burning Crusade, getting to max level was the journey. You could rush it but you’d miss out on a lot of the world building and lore. Over time it gradually turned into a game where they made leveling face roll easy because they wanted everyone grinding their end game loops — and that’s when it started losing its luster for me.

 

[Schmendrick]

I simply agree. That`s the exact reason I find PoE, D3/4 etc boring.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Face-rolling is just boring. It is fun for like a few hours and that’s it.

 

[Bry0]

I would argue it’s preference, and for the general audience faster pacing of the modern games is generally considered better.

 

[clarky]

POE2 has the chance to be the best ARPG of all time, if they can continue the awesomeness of Acts 1-3. I don't think thats what they are aiming for unfortunately.

 

[Last Hearth]

The fast pace with the constant mouse clicks is also carpal tunnel inducing and why I will never touch them again.

 

[ssringo]

“I think that a RPGs in general have started to lean into this: kill swaths of enemies all over the place extremely quickly,” Brevik explained in an upcoming episode of the VideoGamer Podcast. “Your build is killing all sorts of stuff so you could get more drops, you can level up, so you can like, and the screen is littered with stuff you don’t care about.”

Right. As opposed to D2 where it's all about running and/or teleporting past swaths of enemies so you can farm one of a handful of worthwhile locations or just a boss...

I get what he's saying but fuck off. Still riding success from over 2 decades ago because nothing else he's done has been worthwhile.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Say the same thing myself.

Pacing is a big part of game design.

Part of the problem is the community itself. MOre interested in leveling up as quick as possible than enjoying the game. Gotta be worse the more mainstream games became.

 

[Zacfoldor]

With Diablo 4, it took me about 40 hours to get to content that I am not facerolling, which is Pit level 55-60. My entire time with the game before this has been spent facerolling everything with button spam(you don't even have to spam, you just hold the buttons down now).

 

[DanEON]

100% agree

 

[Spukc]

Diablo 2 pacing is perfect. Not too long and not quick.
I quit Diablo 3 pretty damn quick. The game was straight out fucking boring and terrible. Never to touch or follow Diablo franchise ever again after that.

You ever play a sorc on d2?

Lol

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Too fooking true. I'm also utter sick and tired of the term 'Boomer shooter' for these shitty fast paced FPS games!

Feck off. Just feck off!

Doom, Painkiller etc wasn't fast paced ADHD wankathons.

 

[Metnut]

Diablo represents some of the worst forms of gaming outside of GAAS. Click click click and watch numbers go up. Lame.

 

[March Climber]

I miss puzzles and interesting level design in ARPGs and when they used to be known more as isometric RPGs. I feel like the Diablo series and it's popularity was part of the cause that led us to the effect of what we see today.

 

[Saber]

You ever play a sorc on d2?

Lol

Yes. Beat it 2 times until I got stuck on the last level of difficulty on the second chapter where the anubis monsters are immune to magic lol

 

[simpatico]

Both can be good. Both can be bad.