Did Bungie kill Last Of Us Factions because they knew they had the inferior game?

Spyxos

Spyxos

Member
Briefly about me: I played a lot of Last of Us Factions and was really looking forward to the sequel. I never really got into Destiny 1 and 2, even though I have tried them several times. And I was also a bit excited about the new pvp game from Bungie. There is nothing left of it.

Now that we have recently seen Marathon. I can't help but think that Bungie knew very well that they didn't have a good game. Of course they didn't stop it directly, but they were very much involved in killing it. Did they do this specifically because they knew that their game was simply no good? And it would be more likely that Marathon would be canceled if Last Of Us Faction still existed?
 
Possible. Ain't gonna lie though, I'm thankful Bungie did it since I don't care about live service games. ND should do singleplayer games, and Bunige helped with that, so I won't complain.
 
No one will really know the answer to their decisions fully but the people internally.

I personally was never into the MP stuff, even with the uncharted games. If the devs don't want Factions (or whatever the successor to that was) to exist, just have to respect the decision and move onto something else.
 
From what I remember Bungie basically just told them they didn't have enough content to keep people playing a live service game for a long time and Naughty Dog decided they didn't want to be making live service content forever instead of developing other games.
 
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tinfoil-hat.gif
 
Hmm... they could have just copied it if they thought it was better and ND didn't want to commit?
 
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No that's not how business works.

If factions did get made and it ended up becoming a huge success in part thanks to the expertise of Bungie, that would have been seen as an excellent move.
 
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Pretty sure ND came out and said they were unprepared to give massive post-launch support required to support a title like this so they pulled the plug.

Bungie told them it would take a lot of resources post-launch and they were not willing to divert these resources.
 
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SJRB said:
Pretty sure ND came out and said they were unprepared to give massive post-launch support required to support a title like this so they pulled the plug.

Bungie told them it would take a lot of resources post-launch and they were not willing to divert these resources.
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I find it strange that only after so many years of development did they suddenly realize that they didn't have the necessary resources.
 
Spyxos said:
Did Bungie kill Last Of Us Factions because they knew they had the inferior game?
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/did-...new-they-had-the-inferior-game.1683033/#reply
Briefly about me: I played a lot of Last of Us Factions and was really looking forward to the sequel. I never really got into Destiny 1 and 2, even though I have tried them several times. And I was also a bit excited about the new pvp game from Bungie. There is nothing left of it.

Now that we have recently seen Marathon. I can't help but think that Bungie knew very well that they didn't have a good game. Of course they didn't stop it directly, but they were very much involved in killing it. Did they do this specifically because they knew that their game was simply no good? And it would be more likely that Marathon would be canceled if Last Of Us Faction still existed?
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Bungie didn't kill any non-Bungie game.

SIE bought Bungie, not the opposite. Bungie can't cancel any PS Studios game, but he head of PS Studios and the Studio Business Group of SIE, who also is in the Bungie board of directors, can cancel Bungie games or move them to PS Studios as he already did.

ND was the one who decided to cancel TLOU Online once they realized that to properly support it post launch was going to require more resources than they initially planned, to the point that would have been affected the single player games they planned to develop at the same time.

ND had to decide to use their resources in the SP games or TLOU Online, and decided to kill TLOU Online and become a SP studio only.
 
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Spyxos said:
I find it strange that only after so many years of development did they suddenly realize that they didn't have the necessary resources.
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Most likely they mis-judged the quality and scope of the content they made from a live-service perspective. Multiplayer is just not what Naughty Dog do. Having 10 maps that are fun for a few rounds probably sounds like a lot of great work, until someone tells you that you actually need 50 more that have way more intricate designs to fuel a live-service grind. Naughty Dog, like basically all Sony studios, have become structured exclusively around delivering cinematic single player games. I applaud them for walking away when they realised a slightly expanded multiplayer suite cut from their single player game wasn't going to cut it; better than charging USD$70 for a game they knew wasn't up to snuff.
 
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Spyxos said:
Briefly about me: I played a lot of Last of Us Factions and was really looking forward to the sequel. I never really got into Destiny 1 and 2, even though I have tried them several times. And I was also a bit excited about the new pvp game from Bungie. There is nothing left of it.

Now that we have recently seen Marathon. I can't help but think that Bungie knew very well that they didn't have a good game. Of course they didn't stop it directly, but they were very much involved in killing it. Did they do this specifically because they knew that their game was simply no good? And it would be more likely that Marathon would be canceled if Last Of Us Faction still existed?
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I think it was Sony that killed factions because Cuckmann is and everything touches tainted. Bungie still have goodwill because regardless of the bad decisions have been involved wit destiny its a consensus that their gunply/shooting feel is top notch. I wouldn't be surprides if cancelling factions was a joint decision betweeb Bungie, ND and Sony.
 
Actually, Bungie was the only one brave enough to stand up to the powerhouse, which was Concord.

Concords' brilliance was so hard to overcome that most studios had given up trying. Bungie has cleverly taken aspects of Concord for their own product.
 
Spyxos said:
I find it strange that only after so many years of development did they suddenly realize that they didn't have the necessary resources.
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They were just too ambitious.

During the development of TLOU2, Druckmann stated that they were going to spin-off Factions 2 because the scope was getting too big for it to be part of TLOU2 as 'just' a mp portion.

From there it probably had just gotten out of hand without them even realizing it until Bungie came along and pointed out the issues for long-term support.
 
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Spyxos said:
Briefly about me: I played a lot of Last of Us Factions and was really looking forward to the sequel. I never really got into Destiny 1 and 2, even though I have tried them several times. And I was also a bit excited about the new pvp game from Bungie. There is nothing left of it.

Now that we have recently seen Marathon. I can't help but think that Bungie knew very well that they didn't have a good game. Of course they didn't stop it directly, but they were very much involved in killing it. Did they do this specifically because they knew that their game was simply no good? And it would be more likely that Marathon would be canceled if Last Of Us Faction still existed?
Click to expand...
I think ND gave the best reason, Factions 2 would have required years of support from them and fans demand a certain level of quality which would mean them working fully on it and thus no new singleplayer games…It makes the most sense, BUT it begs the question why they let a side mode balloon into a huge project if they had no plan to support it longterm. Personally I think ND should have finished it and had support studios maintain and work on new content, that way fresh eyes and a fresh team could try new things, Im sure this will be a unpopular idea.
As for Marathon. Bungie make excellent shooters, they do. The moment to moment gameplay will be great. The other thing they do well is art. And Marathon 'looks' great. The problem is content, theres still not enough to go off of atm, we have no idea just how much each of the 'Battle Royale' size maps will have to do.
And Im gonna just say that 3 massive maps, if they have a ton of variety and things to do, is perfectly fine to launch with.
So no I dont think Marathon is inherently inferior, it should have been a remake of tge original trilogy but eh, and Bungie defo didnt sabotage Factions.
 
Sony shutting down a live service game that actually would have worked out will never stop shocking me. I don't understand the mentality that you cant make a multiplayer game without adding content over time.. A simple TDM game with last of us 2 gameplay would have lasted me years honestly
 
ND killed it because they aren't a GaaS studio, they'd need way more people to support it and still make SP games.
 
Killing that game is the only good thing Bungie has done in years. Naughty Dog is too talented to be wasted on gaas trash.
 
I mean, before addressing this ridiculous theory, let's put to bed that Naughty Dog simply canceled the game because they felt like they couldn't support it without turning into a live services studio. That's a PR answer. There are a lot of options here if that were the truth.

  • Studio expansion
    • Rockstar has not turned into a live service studio with Red Dead Online and GTA Online
  • Selling the game not as a live service game
    • They could have easily sold what they had for 20-40 dollars and left it as a stand alone multiplayer game
  • Outsourcing the content creation to another studio like Bend or Firewalk
    • Wouldn't be the first time Naughty Dog outsourced development to another studio: Daxter, Uncharted Golden Abyss
The reality is the project probably wasn't coming along well enough in the time frame they were looking to deliver the game with the release of the first season, so they decided to shelve the project rather than double down on it. Giving it to another studio wouldn't have changed the timeline or fixed the issues with it. Selling it for even 20-40 dollars might have resulted in reputational damage. That's the likely reality.

I get that a lot of people want to blame Bungie for this, but I guarantee you Bungie didn't pull the trigger on this or have much involvement in the process of pulling the trigger.
 
That's not what happened. But let's pretend it did happen.

ND still had no business making a live service gane. Imagine 4 years from now 2/3rd of the studio is on the Live Service team. Is this a reality you want for them?
 
Sony planned to launch a dozen or so live service games so clearly they were not worried about cannibalization between games, and it's not like Bungie would have been able to hide they had Marathon in development.

It would be hilarious if true but I don't think it's real. (I also think Factions as a standalone game wouldn't have been the mega success people think it would).
 
This makes me laugh. I was thinking about Factions 2, or lack of it after seeing Marathons debut. Exactly what did Bungie tell ND. Factions seemed to be more original than how Marathon looks.
 
Chukhopops said:
Sony planned to launch a dozen or so live service games so clearly they were not worried about cannibalization between games, and it's not like Bungie would have been able to hide they had Marathon in development.

It would be hilarious if true but I don't think it's real. (I also think Factions as a standalone game wouldn't have been the mega success people think it would).
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Imagine thinking that a 3rd person deathmatch shooter and capture the flag essentially had much crossover with a first person extraction shooter...

The things gamers say with no shame at all... It's almost impressive.
 
They are not the only reason. ND was to decide if they wanted to make life service games for the next decade or the next singleplayer game. It's either this or that, because life service games require years of commitment long after the initial release.

As with most things in life, there was probably a bunch of reasons – which were leading up to the point of canceling Factions.
 
Everything is possible. Factions is clearly better than what they showed of Marathon. The gunplay looks like Destiny with a fresh and ugly coat of neon paint.
 
Mownoc said:
From what I remember Bungie basically just told them they didn't have enough content to keep people playing a live service game for a long time and Naughty Dog decided they didn't want to be making live service content forever instead of developing other games.
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Yea the story has been known for a while it's not some sort of secret. ND did not want to continue supporting the content.
 
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I think it was because Hermen Hulst told them that this new game called Concord was coming out with a $400M budget, and it was going to kick so much ass that other multiplayer games had no chance to compete.
 
Do people know how many people involves making a Corporate decision like that?

I swear sometimes it's like there are only 12year olds here. What worries me is that it actually is full of millennials pushing 40 and you get threads like this.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
Imagine thinking that a 3rd person deathmatch shooter and capture the flag essentially had much crossover with a first person extraction shooter...

The things gamers say with no shame at all... It's almost impressive.
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Wasnt Factions 2 kinda an extraction shooter to an extent in that resources you got each match carried over and infected roamed the map too.

Or maybe not quite extraction because I believe it was that each match had specific loot drops or something that basically whoever got it got it, there was the usual character progression, scavenging for stuff as well but also kinda like map wide bounties that would gear and shit, this is what drove encounters as bounties could be guarded by boss characters.
^This sounds like an extraction shooter hahaha.

No way they were just making a simple Deathmatch/CTF/Domination game.
 
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